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[Cantina]

**Please note this MAY contain spoilers**



When I played Origins, I do not remembering any conversation or cut scene that stood out in a way that did not make sense or had bad clipping. However, after playing Dragon Age 2, I ran into several moments that did not make sense and clipping. I noticed some on my first play through but as I replayed the game, I became more aware of these things. I guess you could go so far as to say I analyzed every conversation and cut scene seeing if there was more I over looked.


Conversations:

Act 1

Merrill (your introduction to her)

“I never met human before. Dailsh mothers frighten their children with stories about you.”


Later in Act 1 (2?):

Merrill: (Party banter)

“I met a Warden once, Duncan was his name. He had a marvelous beard.”



Act 1

Isabella (Conversation with her after Hayder)

“I really don’t know what the relic is, all I know is its ancient and worth my weight in gold.”


Act 2:

Anders: So this relic, how do you not know what it is?

Isabella: It was in a locked box.

Anders: And you did not open it, you managed to resist the urge.


Act 2 (again)

Varric: You have got to tell me what was in that box, Ravani.

Isabella: Which box? I have opened so many.

Varric: <laughs> Those too, but right now, that Qunari Relic.




Act 3: (This only seems out of place if you have “The Exiled Prince,” refused to help Anders by warning the Grand Cleric and sided with the mages).

Hawke: There are Apostates plotting something against the Chantry.

Grand Cleric: I do not doubt you know of one’s plans, but mages have threatened me before.

(After the quest “Faith”):

Grand Cleric: I am Grand Cleric, who would dare attack me.



Cut Scenes:


*Cassandra:  (After the finale, you get a cut scene between Varric and Cassandra).


Cassandra: (Holding the book in her right hand): …”But still had the Champion not been there….” If you watch her right hand the book is shown, then a split second it blips out not being there.


*Varric:

When Cassandra is interrogating Varric, he is always sitting. However, there are several times when the camera pans to Varric and he appears to be slightly hovering above the chair.




Companions sitting down with their weapons still equipped on their backs.


Case in point:

Anders:

(After the quest “All that Remains” if romanced him)

He sits down on the bed next to you with his staff still attached to his back. That has to be uncomfortable.




Weapons are gone and back again:  (This has happened several times with my Hawke)


*Speaking to Merrill (The quest “Welcome Home”)

Hawke sits down in the chair without the weapon on their back. Then a split second later the weapon reappears on Hawke’s back.


*Fenris: (Questioning Beliefs-Anniversary of his escape)

Once again, Hawke sits down in the chair, weapon is gone, and then comes back again.


*Aveline:

Several times, you will catch this happening to her and not Hawke. The one that stands out is her final “Question Beliefs” in Act 3.

When the camera pans to Aveline she is shown with her weapon and shield on her back. She says to Hawke “I am here for you Hawke and for myself.” Then her shield and weapon just magically vanish off her back.




Have a different weapon or add one


*Cullen: (“Enemies Among Us”)

When you first met Cullen interrogating Wilmond, he does not have a shield on his back. Then when the cut scene pans to him getting ready to fight the demons his shield magically appears in his left hand.


*Aveline: (Following the Qun)

When Hawke and Aveline approach the Arishok, Aveline has whatever weapon and shield you gave her on her back. When things go wrong and the Arishok gives the order, Aveline’s sword and shield disappear. What appears is just the cheap sword she used when escaping the Blight.




Ouch, that has to hurt

Several times, I have caught clipping of weapons bent into a character or an NPC’s ass/back.


*Aveline:

During Act 1, you need to speak to Aveline and catch up. When Hawke arrives, she is looking at the duty roster. If you follow her shield, the tip of it is going into her ass.



*Meradith: (Speaking to Alistair)

When you arrive in the Keep, Meradith is arguing with King Alistair. The camera will eventually pan to show Meradith’s back and you will catch her sword almost sucked into her back.




I just hope for Dragon Age 3 the two C's will be analized a bit more carefully.

Anyone else catch anything?

Modifié par Cantina, 18 mai 2012 - 12:09 .

[Sutekh]

Games are bound to have little glitches here and there, things that weren't spotted during beta testing, I suppose.

Origins had those too. I'd have to start the toolset to get the exact dialog, but, for instance, in the Dalish origin, Tamlen refers to "having to go work with master Varathorn", who's in fact a member of Zathrian's clan, not the Sabrae. It should have been "Master Ilen". There were also cut-scenes problems (a memorable misaligned kiss with Zevran after the Crows confrontation comes to mind). Without corrective mods, romances are very bugged (missing dialogs and such, ninjamancing etc...). Those mods don't correct romances only, btw, but many other little things (and the modders who made them are awesome and wonderful).

As for clipping per se, I don't know any 3D game that doesn't have some clipping problems one way or the other. My desktop is a DAO screenshot, and it's got a glaring clipping right in the middle.

DA2 had others (I remember an ambiant conversation in the Sabrae clan which really hinted that Mahariel was dead, even though he was alive and kicking in my import).

All this doesn't really bother me, they come with the territory, and DA2's weren't that many that they became annoying. You should have seen Morrowind back in the day, before the fan-made patches. What a mess this one was dialog-wise, and yet, still a great game.

About Isabela and the *spoiler*, though, keep in mind that she's lying through her teeth during those conversations. So no glitch there, IMO. Same with the Grand Cleric. IIRC, after *spoiler*, she's not talking about *spoiler*, but about a potential *spoiler* (might be wrong on this one, though).

ETA: And yeah, non spoiler forum, it is. Edit your whole post, you should.

Modifié par Sutekh, 17 mai 2012 - 11:23 .

[thats1evildude]

I noticed Merrill's mistake about her first encounter with humans (unless she thought Duncan wasn't human?). Bethany also mistakenly refers to her father dying in Act 1 and not her brother.

Little mistakes like that get through sometimes. I noticed it as well in DAO. For instance, there's a late dialogue option with Leliana where she suggests the relationship with the Warden is platonic when in fact you've been sleeping together for some time.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 17 mai 2012 - 11:14 .

[mesmerizedish]

You realize that when *spoiler* says (s)he doesn't know what the *spoiler* is, (S)HE'S LYING?

That's not poor writing, that's you being dumb.

Also this is a non-spoiler forum.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 17 mai 2012 - 11:17 .

[Lenimph]

thats1evildude wrote...
Little mistakes like that get through sometimes. I noticed it as well in DAO. For instance, there's a late dialogue option with Leliana where she suggests the relationship with the Warden is platonic when in fact you've been sleeping together for some time.

Where, I do not remember that at all?

Modifié par Lenimph, 17 mai 2012 - 11:17 .

[Cantina]

Ugh I knew I forgot to add something to my post-bleh-thanks for reminder.

I am aware of little things slipping through the cracks, but I assumed these issues slipped through because they game was rushed.

Also I was not aware of that dialogue with Lieania.

[The Hierophant]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

You realize that when *spoiler* says (s)he doesn't know what the *spoiler* is, (S)HE'S LYING?

That's not poor writing, that's you being dumb.

Also this is a non-spoiler forum.

If you are talking about the Isabela dialogue then i think the tc is pointing out that Varric identifies the mystery object as Qunari when Isabela says she doesn't know what it is.

[mesmerizedish]

The Hierophant wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

You realize that when *spoiler* says (s)he doesn't know what the *spoiler* is, (S)HE'S LYING?

That's not poor writing, that's you being dumb.

Also this is a non-spoiler forum.

If you are talking about the [spoiler] dialogue then i think the tc is pointing out that [spoiler] identifies the [spoiler] as [spoiler] when [spoiler] says (s)he doesn't know what it is.

Of course *spoiler* knows, *spoiler* knows everything.

[Cantina]

The Hierophant wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

You realize that when *spoiler* says (s)he doesn't know what the *spoiler* is, (S)HE'S LYING?

That's not poor writing, that's you being dumb.

Also this is a non-spoiler forum.

If you are talking about the Isabela dialogue then i think the tc is pointing out that Varric identifies the mystery object as Qunari when Isabela says she doesn't know what it is.

That is correct.

[The Hierophant]

@ishmaeltheforsaken *spoiler* loves drama and wouldn't pass up the oppurtunity for it to unfold. Too bad *spoiler* was too dense to pick up on the hint.

@Cantina Yay where's my cake?! =D

[Maria Caliban]

Dragon Age II had some wonderful cutscenes and I don't think they felt rushed or shoddy. Mistakes happen though.

[Gatt9]

Cantina wrote...

I just hope for Dragon Age 3 the two C's will be analized a bit more carefully.

Anyone else catch anything?

I'm really not sure how that would be at all helpful,  though I would argue that did occur quite extensively with DA2.

[Sutekh]

 

Cantina wrote...

When I played Origins, I do not remembering any conversation or cut scene that stood out in a way that did not make sense or had bad clipping. However, after playing Dragon Age 2, I ran into several moments that did not make sense and clipping. 

 

I am aware of little things slipping through the cracks

So first, there aren't any mistake or clipping in DAO. Then, when those are pointed out, they're just "little things slipping through the cracks". But DA2 has moments that "did not make sense" and clipping that warrant a whole long list.

I sense a double standard.

[thats1evildude]

Lenimph wrote...

Where, I do not remember that at all?

Specifically, I was referring to the dialogue option "I've heard some rumours about Orlesian spies". If you follow that conversation to the end, Leliana basically says she has no interest in you even though you're well into your relationship.

Also, I note that the OP took issue with how Anders sat down on a bed with his staff equipped, but in fact, Morrigan does the very same thing in the "Dark Ritual" dialogue before you head to Denerim.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 18 mai 2012 - 08:03 .

[TEWR]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

You realize that when *spoiler* says (s)he doesn't know what the *spoiler* is, (S)HE'S LYING?

That's not poor writing, that's you being dumb.

Also this is a non-spoiler forum.

If you are talking about the [spoiler] dialogue then i think the tc is pointing out that [spoiler] identifies the [spoiler] as [spoiler] when [spoiler] says (s)he doesn't know what it is.

Of course *spoiler* knows, *spoiler* knows everything.

I think what got to me more about that was that several times in DAII, it can be established that *spoiler* has some relation to why those guys are in Kirkwall -- and Hawke can overhear this many times -- but come time for *spoiler's* associated Act II quest, Hawke is surprised entirely by what he now hears.

Notable instances where you can find out about *spoiler's* very inconsistent lying:

1) The aforementioned banters
2) Dialogue in the very beginning of the Act 1 quest dealing with Javaris, where *spoiler* says she felt the sting of those guys' unique (to Thedas) weapon
3) a rumor from Corff.
4) *spoiler's aversion to going near those guys*

Hawke having heard all of that and then going "Wait... you're the reason they're here?! That *spoiler* is associated with them?! You fought them?!" was very, very jarring for me.

She's inconsistent in her lying, that much is true. But Hawke having to play dumb when it's incredibly obvious what the deal is -- made possible by spoiler's banter and is practically handed to you and Hawke on a silver platter -- was just bad for me.

If I'm not going to be able to say "I knew it" when I'm talking to her after hearing all of that, then that stuff shouldn't be there at all IMO. Banter for the sake of banter that can simultaneously break roleplaying is just bad IMO.

And that's what it felt like. Banter for the sake of banter, without any real care to the roleplaying aspect of my Hawke. Is it consistent with who spoiler is? Sure, spoiler can't keep a consistent lie apparently. But that alone doesn't negate how it felt like it was unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. Other banters could've been done that served the same purpose -- "that lie is different from the lie you told earlier" -- but don't also give away information when the PC will never be able to express how he knew what was happening.

If you want the big reveal for the reason why those guys are there to be a surprise to not only the player but the PC, you should do your best to not reveal anything associated with them at all. Having them talk about it just to talk about it and then not allowing the player/PC to remark upon it because they heard it is kinda anger-inducing.

Of course, it'd probably still be obvious without all of that. But even so, that would at least make it so that it's "What the player knows isn't what the PC knows" and thus acceptable.

Obviously, opinions may vary.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 18 mai 2012 - 11:04 .

[ReallyRue]

I remember on DAO when the Warden/companions sat down, their hands/arms clipped straight through their armour. And the beard clipped straight through the armours. But anyway.

The Merrill conversation is a silly oversight, but I don't see the problem with the Isabela conversation, or the one with the Grand Cleric. In case of the latter, she may well have been threatened before, but that doesn't mean the people making the threats have acted on it (to her knowledge), proving (to her) her point that no one would dare *attack* her.

Modifié par ReallyRue, 18 mai 2012 - 08:34 .

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

I don't think whatever surprise Hawke showed is nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. I didn't even notice it. And I do notice those kinds of things on occasion-- for instance, in NWN2, at one point every single dialog choice you have accuses a guy of being a Luskan, then he's all, "Surprise, I'm not!" No, I already knew *******. It's even worse that I had to consciously choose my flavor of obliviousness.

"You will hand over the *spoiler*!" -- Those guys in *spoiler's Act II quest.

*cue battle*

"Why are the *spoilers* here?"

If after hearing about Spoiler's spoiler being a spoiler related item, that there's a rumor that another ship was seen fighting *spoiler's* ship, that Spoiler says she felt *spoiler's* item's sting, and other things Hawke is still wondering why the *Spoilers* are involved, I have to say that it is pretty bad.

It's also autodialog, which made it slightly worse for me.

And even Varric will show some surprise at how Spoiler apparently "kept it hidden from Hawke", which is... kinda odd if he knew already.

But as I said before, opinions may vary on this. I see it as really bad, while you may not have.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 18 mai 2012 - 09:11 .

[LolaLei]

In regards to Isabela and the relic, she knew what it was all along but she was just pretending she didn't to avoid having to answer questions, which is why she tends to contradict herself a lot. The Merrill one is definitely a blooper though.

[M0RD3CA1 VII]

The one that always bothers me is that Merril's default staff is always sticking into the floor/ground.

Staves in general are always sticking in and out of wierd places ...

[Apathy1989]

DAO avoided the clipping by having characters never sit down, always standing up looking straight at the warden.

Would be nice if it was fixed in DA2, but its not a huge issue.

[M0RD3CA1 VII]

Eh, beards and other such extras were always sticking through my armors in Dragon Age: Origins, so it had some of the same issues. But I really just didnt care lol.