446 réponses à ce sujet

[Raiil]

balance5050 wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...


shepard died in me2.... the revival was plausible because he had his full armor, helmet, and kinetic barriers. not to mention that the planet he landed on was both lighter and had a thinner atmosphere than earth. the revival itself is not so far fetched considering the advances in science today, however his body needed to be intact for it to work (thanks to his armor)

in me3 shepard has no armor, no helmet, no barriers. he must first suvive a medium explosion around the size of a grenade, then a much lager nuke-sized explosion.... THEN a re-entry on a larger planet WITHOUT shields or a helmet.



so no, I dont think shepard has survived anything quite like it before.

And the problem with your statement- again- is that he's on Earth.

i dont see the problem if he never left earth in the first place.

 

And in order for that to be true, you need proof, either through WoG via the developers or through hypotheses that can be proved in-game. We have neither. All you have is an idea with no substantial evidence.

LOL, I like how you can't even be bothered to talk about the evidence, whats wrong buddy?

Because I've discussed it in the thread already. And many others. LOL. Buddy.

But since you need refreshing-

1. Concrete exists on the Citadel. This has been established in game, and if you need more 'proof', play Garrus: Eye for an Eye again. There are concrete cylinders and floors/walls in the warehouse distract. Thus, the concrete does not only exist on Earth. The fact that concrete looks similiar to other parts means very little when BioWare in general resuses models and textures in game all the time.

2. Shepard has a habit of surviving insane odds. They were half-buried under rubble in the ending of Mass Effect 1 (where they make their triumphant return), manage to be revived after being turned into meat and tubes in Mass Effect 2, and regularly fall down/pushed/etc down heights that would crush the vast majority of people. Being knocked sidewalls back into the Citadel would be pushing it- but no more than being paste and then being reconstructed is. Shepard is stronger, faster, and more powerful than the vast majority of characters in game.

3. Maybe I'm missing something, but I see a wheel, not a Mako- I just rewatched the 'perfect' destroy ending scene (which did not have EDI, by the by), and there are vehicles present on the Citadel- we see plenty of flying ones, and there are wheeled vehicles, IIRC, in the warehouse.  All the elememts that keep being presented as 'not possible on the Citadel' are, in fact, on the Citadel.


4. One of my biggest 'issues' with IT in general is that 'the Catalyst is a liar'. Why, because Shepard takes a breath? But Shepard doesn't in all destroy endings, which play out fundamentally the same, with variations based solely on EMS. If there was, say, a 50/50 split between breathing through non-breathing, that would mean the Catalyst is a liar 50% of the time. It would make more sense to say that the Catalyst is mistaken- that it was wrong, not a liar. And since there's no actual evidence that God Child is a) actively trying to mislead you or actually Harbinger, I would like to see the actual proof that it's lying to you. 'It's the master of a genocidal race' doesn't make it a liar, only a creation with extraordinarily faulty logical processing.

[ArkkAngel007]

balance5050 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

How 90% of anti-IT vs ITer arguments are:

ITer spams images, links and paragraphs of "proof" while anti-ITer calls them dismissive and degrading names then says "clinging" and "grasping at straws" a lot.

It can be argued that IT people tend to dismiss any counterclaims though, even if they don't have anything really solid to back up the dismissal.  It's just a silly argument that shouldn't be taking place.

It's hard to fight thecounters when they only consist of bioware being lazy or bad writers. It's tough becasue we argue the meaning of the story when they refute it by saying the author is dumb.

Agreed.  And when they hate space magic being in the ending we have, but then seem to find it in a much better light as long as it "counters" IT.  Once more, 'tis a silly argument.

I'm not a fan of the writing overall, but I'd rather try to think critically than subscribe to hate-based assumptions.

[BatmanTurian]

llbountyhunter wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

not really, cerebus was able to sneek past the defences in the salarian base because of their reaper tech.

also the actuall purpose of the mission was never really answerd... possibly there waiting for EC.

It does not matter how much Reaper tech you have. Cerberus attack a bloody homeplanet when there were VIP's of significant importance present. Which would most likely mean that there god knows how many warships in orbit ready to defend.

So no. Cerberus being able to attack the Salarian homeworld is just another asspull.

I have to agree with this, unless they copied the stealth technology from the Normandy that they rebuilt.

nobody deteced the reapers when they attacked earth... they just "lost comunications" with lunar base and their fleet.

Which means the Reapers probably have the same  or better stealth technology as/than the SR2.

[llbountyhunter]

 look here.

[mauro2222]

llbountyhunter wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

not really, cerebus was able to sneek past the defences in the salarian base because of their reaper tech.

also the actuall purpose of the mission was never really answerd... possibly there waiting for EC.

It does not matter how much Reaper tech you have. Cerberus attack a bloody homeplanet when there were VIP's of significant importance present. Which would most likely mean that there god knows how many warships in orbit ready to defend.

So no. Cerberus being able to attack the Salarian homeworld is just another asspull.

I have to agree with this, unless they copied the stealth technology from the Normandy that they rebuilt.

nobody deteced the reapers when they attacked earth... they just "lost comunications" with lunar base and their fleet.

"The Reapers took Earth in a matter of hours. The Alliance knew the first wave would arrive from batarian space, but they were unprepared for the speed and scale of the attack.
The Reapers bypassed the Sixth and Seventh Fleets at Terra Nova
and Eden Prime, flying straight from relay to relay where they could
neither be tracked nor intercepted. The tactic was unexpected, since the
navies of organic species would never risk coming out of FTL within
combat range or leaving enemies at their backs to threaten supply lines."

"At Arcturus Station,
more than a dozen Reaper capital ships engaged the Alliance's Second,
Third, and Fifth Fleets. This was mere screening for the main force.
Dozens more capital ships continued through the Charon Relay,
where the First Fleet had been lying in wait but was soon destroyed.
The Fourth Fleet, near Earth, had a few minutes of advance warning. It
stood no better chance.
"

Modifié par mauro2222, 18 mai 2012 - 06:11 .

[Applepie_Svk]

Nimpe wrote...

Oh my god the last words of the game really are Downloadable Content. I thought that was a joke.

Still little better than you could recieve a message in your private terminal from future after what you beat a game ... LoL

[balance5050]

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Ok...smoke/dust is a Mako wheel? (which is funny 'cause the supposed wheel changes shape, like a gas does) and because there is concrete we're on earth... I wonder if these guys know that same textures are used in every single map.

Those concrete textures ONLY appear on Earth.

They're on the wall of the Grissom academy, on Sanctuary, in the Temple, on Tuchanka. Re-used textures.

Sigh.... Shepard didnt get blasted to Grissom acedemy or Tuchanka, Earth was the last place that had textures like that. I'll find the exact assets soon.

[BatmanTurian]

Valentia X wrote...


2. Shepard has a habit of surviving insane odds. They were half-buried under rubble in the ending of Mass Effect 1 (where they make their triumphant return), manage to be revived after being turned into meat and tubes in Mass Effect 2, and regularly fall down/pushed/etc down heights that would crush the vast majority of people. Being knocked sidewalls back into the Citadel would be pushing it- but no more than being paste and then being reconstructed is. Shepard is stronger, faster, and more powerful than the vast majority of characters in game.

This is just rediculous and unscientific grasping at straws. I've refuted your claims twice now. Shepard is not Superman.

BatmanTurian wrote...

A giant blast megatons in magnitude would not blast Shepard through
walls, it would incinerate and vaporize him. Also, Shepard did not
survive being killed in space. That's why he had to be brought back to
life by the Lazerus Project. That's just rediculous. The whole premise
of ME2's beginning is that we owe something to the Illusive man for
bringing Shepard back to life and it took two years, implants, and the
very best scientists to do so and Shepard was the only subject.

So
no, Shepard did not survive re-entry. Shepard was decapitated and all
that was left was his torso, limbs, and head flung everywhere, his brain
intact only because of his helmet.

BatmanTurian wrote...
A person, whether they have armor and shields or not, would not be able
to survive a multimegaton blast like that. You have no answer. Even if
Shepard was in a Mass Effect field holding in oxygen, a) Shepard is at
ground zero and the force of the explosion on the air around it would
pop Shepard's lungs like baloons so Shepard would not even be able to
take a breath, and c) even if Shepard was blown away from the blast into
one of the wards, the force of the blast would make Shepard a greasy
red smear.

When you have to ignore basic physics to prove your point, it looks like denial.

[llbountyhunter]

Valentia X wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...


shepard died in me2.... the revival was plausible because he had his full armor, helmet, and kinetic barriers. not to mention that the planet he landed on was both lighter and had a thinner atmosphere than earth. the revival itself is not so far fetched considering the advances in science today, however his body needed to be intact for it to work (thanks to his armor)

in me3 shepard has no armor, no helmet, no barriers. he must first suvive a medium explosion around the size of a grenade, then a much lager nuke-sized explosion.... THEN a re-entry on a larger planet WITHOUT shields or a helmet.



so no, I dont think shepard has survived anything quite like it before.

And the problem with your statement- again- is that he's on Earth.

i dont see the problem if he never left earth in the first place.

 

And in order for that to be true, you need proof, either through WoG via the developers or through hypotheses that can be proved in-game. We have neither. All you have is an idea with no substantial evidence.

LOL, I like how you can't even be bothered to talk about the evidence, whats wrong buddy?

Because I've discussed it in the thread already. And many others. LOL. Buddy.

But since you need refreshing-

1. Concrete exists on the Citadel. This has been established in game, and if you need more 'proof', play Garrus: Eye for an Eye again. There are concrete cylinders and floors/walls in the warehouse distract. Thus, the concrete does not only exist on Earth. The fact that concrete looks similiar to other parts means very little when BioWare in general resuses models and textures in game all the time.

2. Shepard has a habit of surviving insane odds. They were half-buried under rubble in the ending of Mass Effect 1 (where they make their triumphant return), manage to be revived after being turned into meat and tubes in Mass Effect 2, and regularly fall down/pushed/etc down heights that would crush the vast majority of people. Being knocked sidewalls back into the Citadel would be pushing it- but no more than being paste and then being reconstructed is. Shepard is stronger, faster, and more powerful than the vast majority of characters in game.

3. Maybe I'm missing something, but I see a wheel, not a Mako- I just rewatched the 'perfect' destroy ending scene (which did not have EDI, by the by), and there are vehicles present on the Citadel- we see plenty of flying ones, and there are wheeled vehicles, IIRC, in the warehouse.  All the elememts that keep being presented as 'not possible on the Citadel' are, in fact, on the Citadel.


4. One of my biggest 'issues' with IT in general is that 'the Catalyst is a liar'. Why, because Shepard takes a breath? But Shepard doesn't in all destroy endings, which play out fundamentally the same, with variations based solely on EMS. If there was, say, a 50/50 split between breathing through non-breathing, that would mean the Catalyst is a liar 50% of the time. It would make more sense to say that the Catalyst is mistaken- that it was wrong, not a liar. And since there's no actual evidence that God Child is a) actively trying to mislead you or actually Harbinger, I would like to see the actual proof that it's lying to you. 'It's the master of a genocidal race' doesn't make it a liar, only a creation with extraordinarily faulty logical processing.

1. can you show is this concrete?
2. wrong. not like this. I already axplained the differencs to you (need refreshing?)
3. I see vehicles, but not alot of wheels
4. if the catylist conrtols the reapers, then why does he say "we" and "us"?

Question: So how do you stop something unstoppably massive?
Casey Hudson: That's something we reveal over time. You see humans being harvested and processed to become fuel for the way Reapers reproduce. This is their reproductive cycle and we're just a part of it. We're nothing to them.

http://www.computera...ough-decisions/ 

[mauro2222]

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Ok...smoke/dust is a Mako wheel? (which is funny 'cause the supposed wheel changes shape, like a gas does) and because there is concrete we're on earth... I wonder if these guys know that same textures are used in every single map.

Those concrete textures ONLY appear on Earth.

They're on the wall of the Grissom academy, on Sanctuary, in the Temple, on Tuchanka. Re-used textures.

Sigh.... Shepard didnt get blasted to Grissom acedemy or Tuchanka, Earth was the last place that had textures like that. I'll find the exact assets soon.

*facepalm* textures... T-E-X-T-U-R-E-S.

The rubble are objects the texture is the skin of the object.

[balance5050]

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Ok...smoke/dust is a Mako wheel? (which is funny 'cause the supposed wheel changes shape, like a gas does) and because there is concrete we're on earth... I wonder if these guys know that same textures are used in every single map.

Those concrete textures ONLY appear on Earth.

They're on the wall of the Grissom academy, on Sanctuary, in the Temple, on Tuchanka. Re-used textures.

Sigh.... Shepard didnt get blasted to Grissom acedemy or Tuchanka, Earth was the last place that had textures like that. I'll find the exact assets soon.

*facepalm* textures... T-E-X-T-U-R-E-S.

The rubble are objects the texture is the skin of the object.

Right, they signify that it's Earth;)

[mauro2222]

balance5050 wrote...

Right, they signify that it's Earth;)

...I think I'm talking to a wall, or a drugged person.

[mauro2222]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
But why was such plotholes not present on Tuchanka and Rannoch? because they ran out of time? A game is not made chronolgically.

Didn't the final hour app mention that they were struggling with making the ending as late as November?

And there is already poor writing in other areas of ME3. Such as Cerberus in the time span of 6 months becoming an empire, Shepard getting away with killing 300.0000 Batarians with no punishment.

Well she was grounded for months and had her ship taken away. Were it not for the delayed reaper invasion she'd have been left to rot in prison, as stated by Anderson himself.

And no, Cerberus didnt just up and build an empire from scratch in 6 months. You're talking about an organization with the resources and connections to bring a human being back to life and recreate the alliance's most powerful frigate in secret. While empire is the wrong word to describe Cerberus, they are clearly shown to be a large and capable group with vast resources.

Except they lost all of it during the comic.

[balance5050]

/thread

[jijeebo]

Isn't it possible that Shepard is on the Citadel and that any out of place materials are just components of the Crucible that got thrown about due to the blast?

*I am GENUINELY asking if it's possible, because I haven't the foggiest*

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

poundoffleshaa wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Those were different writing teams, though. ME3 has a new lead writer, and so far his performance has been less than stellar. (I'm aware Walters worked on ME2 but that was along with or under Karpyshyn)

I personally don't think IT is likly it just gives far to much credit to the Bioware writing team, but you seem very determined to disprove the theory ( which can be equated to breaking other peoples happiness in this case) why?

I'm not so determined to disprove the theory so much as I'm determined to get people to stop thinking that Bioware planned it. They can choose to roll with it if they like, but I really doubt they had any intention of making the original endings indoctrination.

And then there are those who think the I.T. is fact...

[GethPrimeMKII]

mauro2222 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
But why was such plotholes not present on Tuchanka and Rannoch? because they ran out of time? A game is not made chronolgically.

Didn't the final hour app mention that they were struggling with making the ending as late as November?

And there is already poor writing in other areas of ME3. Such as Cerberus in the time span of 6 months becoming an empire, Shepard getting away with killing 300.0000 Batarians with no punishment.

Well she was grounded for months and had her ship taken away. Were it not for the delayed reaper invasion she'd have been left to rot in prison, as stated by Anderson himself.

And no, Cerberus didnt just up and build an empire from scratch in 6 months. You're talking about an organization with the resources and connections to bring a human being back to life and recreate the alliance's most powerful frigate in secret. While empire is the wrong word to describe Cerberus, they are clearly shown to be a large and capable group with vast resources.

Except they lost all of it during the comic.

Which comic are you refering to? I'd like to have a look for myself.

[balance5050]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

poundoffleshaa wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Those were different writing teams, though. ME3 has a new lead writer, and so far his performance has been less than stellar. (I'm aware Walters worked on ME2 but that was along with or under Karpyshyn)

I personally don't think IT is likly it just gives far to much credit to the Bioware writing team, but you seem very determined to disprove the theory ( which can be equated to breaking other peoples happiness in this case) why?

I'm not so determined to disprove the theory so much as I'm determined to get people to stop thinking that Bioware planned it. They can choose to roll with it if they like, but I really doubt they had any intention of making the original endings indoctrination.

And then there are those who think the I.T. is fact...

We keep telling you that we don't think it's fact. It's a literary interpretation.

[BatmanTurian]

jijeebo wrote...

Isn't it possible that Shepard is on the Citadel and that any out of place materials are just components of the Crucible that got thrown about due to the blast?

*I am GENUINELY asking if it's possible, because I haven't the foggiest*

BatmanTurian wrote...
A person, whether they have armor and shields or not, would not be able to survive a multimegaton blast like that.  Even if Shepard was in a Mass Effect field holding in oxygen, a) Shepard is at ground zero and the force of the explosion on the air around it would pop Shepard's lungs like baloons so Shepard would not even be able to take a breath, and c) even if Shepard was blown away from the blast into one of the wards, the force of the blast would make Shepard a greasy red smear.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 18 mai 2012 - 06:42 .

[DeathScepter]

It doesn't prove I.T. wrong. It is just a marketing thing. Also I.T. is better than the bull**** ending that we have.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

balance5050 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

poundoffleshaa wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Those were different writing teams, though. ME3 has a new lead writer, and so far his performance has been less than stellar. (I'm aware Walters worked on ME2 but that was along with or under Karpyshyn)

I personally don't think IT is likly it just gives far to much credit to the Bioware writing team, but you seem very determined to disprove the theory ( which can be equated to breaking other peoples happiness in this case) why?

I'm not so determined to disprove the theory so much as I'm determined to get people to stop thinking that Bioware planned it. They can choose to roll with it if they like, but I really doubt they had any intention of making the original endings indoctrination.

And then there are those who think the I.T. is fact...

We keep telling you that we don't think it's fact. It's a literary interpretation.

Wasn't talking about you, actually. I'm okay with people thinking it's a literary interpretation so long a they realize there is an alternative.

[llbountyhunter]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

poundoffleshaa wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Those were different writing teams, though. ME3 has a new lead writer, and so far his performance has been less than stellar. (I'm aware Walters worked on ME2 but that was along with or under Karpyshyn)

I personally don't think IT is likly it just gives far to much credit to the Bioware writing team, but you seem very determined to disprove the theory ( which can be equated to breaking other peoples happiness in this case) why?

I'm not so determined to disprove the theory so much as I'm determined to get people to stop thinking that Bioware planned it. They can choose to roll with it if they like, but I really doubt they had any intention of making the original endings indoctrination.

And then there are those who think the I.T. is fact...

what makes you think they didnt plan it? the evidence works best if IT was planned before hand.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 18 mai 2012 - 06:44 .

[BatmanTurian]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

poundoffleshaa wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Those were different writing teams, though. ME3 has a new lead writer, and so far his performance has been less than stellar. (I'm aware Walters worked on ME2 but that was along with or under Karpyshyn)

I personally don't think IT is likly it just gives far to much credit to the Bioware writing team, but you seem very determined to disprove the theory ( which can be equated to breaking other peoples happiness in this case) why?

I'm not so determined to disprove the theory so much as I'm determined to get people to stop thinking that Bioware planned it. They can choose to roll with it if they like, but I really doubt they had any intention of making the original endings indoctrination.

And then there are those who think the I.T. is fact...

We keep telling you that we don't think it's fact. It's a literary interpretation.

Wasn't talking about you, actually. I'm okay with people thinking it's a literary interpretation so long a they realize there is an alternative.

Yeah, and we're fine with the alternative if Bioware explains it and clarifies it logically, otherwise we'll be back into hate mode again because we wouldn't even be able to apply the I.T. interpretation.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 18 mai 2012 - 06:45 .

[ArkkAngel007]

jijeebo wrote...

Isn't it possible that Shepard is on the Citadel and that any out of place materials are just components of the Crucible that got thrown about due to the blast?

*I am GENUINELY asking if it's possible, because I haven't the foggiest*

Possible to have survived that?  Personally I feel no.

If he/she did?  It possibly could be, though again, everything in that scene is found in London.  The buiding facade elements, the concrete, the shelving (yeah, I know that last is everywhere but still), the tire...

Problem is, we don't know what the Crucible was made out of and have any points of comparison.

[Tom Lehrer]

IT is a fan made theory based off graphical errors and poor writing. The whole thing depends on the idea that BioWare knowingly did not sell us a complete game and has chosen to give us the real ending at a later time. There is no past example of anyone ever selling a game without a real ending. I know of DLCs that have changed and extended game endings but there is not a single example of a game that was sold without an ending. 

I could spend weeks arguing about and proving wrong in-game "evidence'' of IT but I dont need to because the real world gives us a much easier way to prove it wrong. ME was a massive investment for EA and BioWare and their writing, marketing, and PR teams would not risk ME3s longer term profitability by not giving the game an end. We already see the fan outrage when the ending to such a loved series fails this hard...can you imagine the outrage if they tried to sell us the 'real ending' for 10$?

The free EC was a marketing move to try and save sales for MEs DLC not to give us the ending we should have gotten anyway. The reason they dont deny IT is simple marketing. Should BioWare come out and say it is false the die hard ITers will lose interest and that will hurt profits. The real goal is to keep as many people on board as they can so that when EC comes out more people download it and possibly enjoy the expansion regardless and buy other DLC.

Modifié par Tom Lehrer, 18 mai 2012 - 06:47 .