446 réponses à ce sujet

[ThinkIntegral]

httinks2006 wrote...

Bioware also said this , Do they lie ? Do they deceive ?

*snip*

The thing to note is those things were mostly said while the game was still in development versus a screen placed in a game that went gold on 2/12/2012. In other words, they were happy enough with everything in the game by that point, including that screen at the end.

[outlaw1109]

I don't think this disproves the IT...(i think the IT is just an interpretation of the endings, neither valid, nor invalid)...IF, which I don't think they will, BW changed the endings, this message would probably just appear at the end of the new endings since it's a message to you the player and not really a part of the game.

[Kildin_of_the_Volus]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Kildin_of_the_Volus wrote...

Oh look, its this guy. Srsly, you a closet-case IT self hater or something. You sure do make a lot of half assed jabs at IT

It's not really half-assed when it tears a massive hole in IT. IT'ers trying to answer to this, now THAT'S half-assed. xD

All I see in the original post is a screen shot of the extremely distatstful last few sentences of an otherwise beatiful game.  That's it.  Don't see Anything other than what it says, which can be interpreted numberoues and various ways.

For example, pro-IT could say it means everything Shepard did leading up to his "dream sequence" defined why the galaxy defaeted the repears reguardless if Shepard dies or lives (ie beats the indoc attempt or fails).  Thus, Shepard "has become a legend be ending the repaer threat."

Pro-at-face-value could say that, well, what you saw is what happened and that the catalyst's soloutions were real.  Shepard, against all odds, was the first organic to make it that far and  "has become a legend be ending the repaer threat." 

Wow, that was really, really hard to fit into both camps...So, where is this "massive plot hole in IT" you speak of?



Seriously, I've seen this guy just trash talk and bash other people trying to give him rational and respectful arguements as to why THEY BELIEVE in IT.

Modifié par Kildin_of_the_Volus, 18 mai 2012 - 05:09 .

[Comguard2]

Ah, yes, the ending message...

Remember when they said "the reapers can win"? And then we got the "you can't loose, no matter what you do" situation?

Just proves another lie, noting else.

[What?]

Though I'm not particularly accepting of the IT theory, the message at the end hardly proves a thing. Assuming the endings do follow an indoctrination path, there's a possibility that Shepard, at some point after being indoctrinated (in either control or synthesis), fights back the Reapers' influence and defeats them. Whether that be steering them into the nearest sun, or placating them with synthesis. In either scenario, the threat is ended. It's just a question of at what cost to the galaxy.

Modifié par VictorianTrash, 18 mai 2012 - 05:32 .

[LTKerr]

Nimpe wrote...

Oh my god the last words of the game really are Downloadable Content. I thought that was a joke.

Shepard's last words are "I don't know". Guess Bioware were on fire the day they wrote both lines.

[Jadebaby]

IsaacShep wrote...



He ended the Reaper threat in every ending. He didn't "fail" any test in a dream/hallucination. It's done, already happened. He wins in every ending = every ending happened. Sorry IT

The ME3 ending went against the codex and lore established IN-game. So why can't IDT go against one crappy little "buy our dlc" box?

[Bill Casey]

If you fail to break the elder brain's illusion in Bioware's Neverwinter Nights 2: Hordes of the Underdark, the game acts like you've won...

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Comguard2 wrote...

Ah, yes, the ending message...

Remember when they said "the reapers can win"? And then we got the "you can't loose, no matter what you do" situation?

Just proves another lie, noting else.

Gamble said on Twitters that "Yes, the Reapers can win. It is called Critical Mission Failure".

Personally I see nothing wrong with ending message. Any events could transpire between ones you've seen and this message.
If anything, this message will still be correct if Shepard hallucinated the whole thing, then woke up and ended Reapers threat for real this time - you just haven't seen this yet. But this message does not state that you've already seen all events firsthand.
In fact it states quite opposite, that Shepard story still has to be expanded - so you haven't seen everything that happened yet.

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 18 mai 2012 - 06:58 .

[Leafs43]

IsaacShep wrote...



He ended the Reaper threat in every ending. He didn't "fail" any test in a dream/hallucination. It's done, already happened. He wins in every ending = every ending happened. Sorry IT

How does adding IT change this prompt?

[Hadeedak]

Bill Casey wrote...

If you fail to break the elder brain's illusion in Bioware's Neverwinter Nights 2: Hordes of the Underdark, the game acts like you've won...

That was also painfully, painfully obvious. About as obvious as "Do not sleep with Morinth you moron." IT really, really isn't. I mean, I've watched the videos, read the 'proof', and it still seems sillier than taking the game at face value to me. Though I get people interpret things differently.

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

The only thing I agree to some extent, if some kind of "reality warp" happens (via "it was all a dream", time travel, parallel world, etc etc) - it will still mean that you will be able to "win" (end the Reapers threat) whatever you choice was with starkid. Its possible that it will have some implications, but it won't prohibit you from getting the "true end" (or one of them).

[soulprovider]

 I will never understand why people insisted that we need to buy the ending to mass effect 3, because thats what IT states, that the games ending didn't happen and that you were sold and unfinished game.

The OP's message also states thats where EA was headed as well, even if IT was untrue EA wants to sell you the real ending, the EC is just going to tie up a few loose ends, the realy ending will be sold to the player 6 months down the line.

[Leafs43]

soulprovider wrote...

 I will never understand why people insisted that we need to buy the ending to mass effect 3, because thats what IT states, that the games ending didn't happen and that you were sold and unfinished game.

The OP's message also states thats where EA was headed as well, even if IT was untrue EA wants to sell you the real ending, the EC is just going to tie up a few loose ends, the realy ending will be sold to the player 6 months down the line.

You don't have to purchase EC.

And if EC was a couple of cutscenes and dialog options, it would have been relased by now.

[TeffexPope]

Shepard has ended the reaper threat and become a legend! Now, build on that legend after the war is over! With missions that take place before the war is over!  Makes sense.

[soulprovider]

Leafs43 wrote...

soulprovider wrote...

 I will never understand why people insisted that we need to buy the ending to mass effect 3, because thats what IT states, that the games ending didn't happen and that you were sold and unfinished game.

The OP's message also states thats where EA was headed as well, even if IT was untrue EA wants to sell you the real ending, the EC is just going to tie up a few loose ends, the realy ending will be sold to the player 6 months down the line.

You don't have to purchase EC.

And if EC was a couple of cutscenes and dialog options, it would have been relased by now.

you glossed over my post didn't you

All I said was the EC was going to tie up loose ends, meaning they have to go back to the story boards, all the way back to ME 1, tie up a few loose ends with the quests, make some game play changes, tweaks that fans were complaining about and add some closure cutscenes at the end that shows shepards teamates and more of shepard, and then leave it on a cliff hanger for the real ending.

Considering that EA is willing to drop free to play servers for their number 1 franchise battle field 3(you know that supposed COD killer) and star charging 30 dollars a month to rent servers from them across the board then they are not above doing this, they figure the tweaks the EC will give fans as well as some awesome cutscenes will placate fans enough and keep the suspense up so they could start creating and charging for DLC again......

Reactionary decision making at its best.

EDIT: gonna have to come back to edit this, too many gramatical errors and its really late at night, should have known better than to jump on the ME3 forums after playing D3.

Modifié par soulprovider, 18 mai 2012 - 07:35 .

[ReXspec]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I know that.

Confirmation Bias is a terrible thing.

Ironically, if they were not coming out with the EC, OP's post would have been true.  Now we have to look forward to seeing if the IT will be confirmed or proven wrong in the EC.

Modifié par ReXspec, 18 mai 2012 - 07:41 .

[TSA_383]

Bill Casey wrote...

If you fail to break the elder brain's illusion in Bioware's Neverwinter Nights 2: Hordes of the Underdark, the game acts like you've won...

Although you can tell pretty easily now why they made it so straightforward... needing to cater to a mass audience and all that.

Valentia X wrote...

ploppy54 wrote...

but
the IT theory makes the most sense.... you don't know what the catalyst
is or what it does... cerberus deleted it on mars.... so the catalyst is
anything you want it to be.... your building this thing to save the
galaxy but you don't know how to use it...... your choice at the end of
the game is the catalyst so indoc theory make the most sense.... the
crucible docks with the citadel and activates and DESTORYS the
reapers!

IT has plenty of holes. It's not a theory so much as a series of hypotheses that no one can prove. 

You're mixing up the scientific and literary definitions of "theory". 

Sisterofshane wrote...

I've said it before and I will say it again - it will become "falsified" if and when the devs publish the EC, and it does not continue
the endings, but rather expands upon the endings we already have.  At
this point, it would just become a really neat allegory for "fighting
indoctrination".

It is, therefore, as falsifiable as theories such as evolution and the like.

You mean, totally falsifiable?
Evolution has been accepted by the scientific community for more than a century because it's the only way that biology really makes sense on a fundamental level. Given all the species of dog mankind has ever produced it's not exactly hard to see different initial conditions = different output.
You were just arguing that Evolution doesn't quite work as a theory, right? I didn't read that wrong?

IT is partially accepted by Mass Effect fans, on the other hand, based on interpretive literary evidence arising from the game's lore. It's like comparing apples and cyanide.

Hadeedak wrote...

it still seems sillier than taking the game at face value to me. Though I get people interpret things differently.

I'd go and explain the whole issue of the way certain characters are portrayed, or the amount of effort that's gone into creating scens that would be otherwise unnecessary, but frankly life is too short.
So let's break down the basics:

On the one hand, you've got the indoctrination theory of events, assuming:
1-Bioware tailored the game so that ME2:Arrival (sold to us as the "bridge" DLC to ME3) was important to the plot, as it provides a logical, implied point for Shepard to be indoctrinated.
2-Shepard is being indoctrinated, something which has only happened to about a quarter of all plot-important characters in the Mass Effect series and which has only been a major theme in every game in the series.
3-The trippy, surreal ending is surreal because it's not real.
4-The DLC advert after the game has actually ended isn't a major canon plot point.

Can't think of anything else just now...

On the other hand, we have the absolute literal take on the endings, which makes the following assumptions:
1-Nothing in the game, even the dream sequences, the loaded conversations with major characters etc has any bearing on the story outside of what is superficially obvious.
2-Shepard can be shot in the face with the laser of a reaper capital ship and survive relatively unharmed (unlike...yknow...a large building, a tank or a dreadnought).
3-Your entire party on the way down to the beam just kind of assumed you were dead, and harbinger flew away despite a clear wish for your body in ME2, and having told you "your mind will be ours". Maybe he was ashamed at being such a poor shot that shep was barely grazed.
4-The immediate effect of a reaper laser is that you have the movement characteristics, visual effects and impared hearing of someone who's dreaming.
5-Nobody noticed you get up and walk towards the beam.
6-Nobody noticed Anderson walking towards the beam... given that he apparently follows you up.
7-Despite the fact that all of the body models on the ship are based on Ash and Kaiden with mannequin-style faces, everything in the citadel is exactly as it seems.
8-Anderson has managed to come into the room ahead of you, when there is only one entrance to the platform, and you can see it when he says he isn't there yet.
9-The Illusive man is able to exercise reaper indoctrination effects, at high speed, going against everything the game has ever told us about how indoctrination works.
10-Anderson/TIM/Shepard are all scripted to look at the camera for most of their indoctrination lines rather than at the character they're addressing because the designers thought it would look pretty.
11-There is no possible meaning to be inferred at all from the bullet wound shepard gets after shooting anderson. I repeat, do not use deductive reasoning, it's not safe.
12-Hackett knows you're on the citadel, despite having been told a few minutes previously that your whole squad is dead.
13-The being that controls the reapers (apparently) is totally telling the absolute truth and we shouldn't be suspicious of the things it offers at all.
13-It is possible for a primitive organic like shepard to exert "control" over the reapers, going against everything we've been told in 3 games.
14-Taking control of some reapers happens to look remarkably like being turned into a husk.
15-The reapers have a totally peaceful and non-threatening interpretation of synthesis. All the many reaper organic-synthetic hybrids you've fought over all three games were just misrepresented. The fact that sovereign and the Catalyst both refer to reaperification as the "final evolution of life" should in no way be taken in a remotely sinister way.
16-Advancing galactic peace through synthesis, which in an amazing coincidence also looks remarkably like being turned into a husk.
17-The illusive man was totally a great guy and just misunderstood. He wanted what was best for everyone.
18-Anderson was such a bastard, going and choosing to destroy the reapers like that. God, what a dick!
19-Joker decides to run away like a little girl for no discernable reason.
20-The normandy can survive being hit by a shockwave and smashed into the surface of a planet, whilst travelling at FTL speeds.
21-Whilst Joker was busy pissing himself and running away, he stopped to pick up the two squadmates Shepard "cared about most" (the ones you interacted with most in-game).
22-In the destroy ending, shepard is capable of surviving a multiple-megaton blast to the face...Without a helmet or intact armour... In space...
23-EA would totally never expand on the very limited model of single player gaming to milk us for more cash, possibly being allergic to the paper money is printed on or something:

TSA_383 wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Bioware's definition of foreshadowing;

Put all the hints into Day 1 DLC.

Make the DLC available for free only to Collector's Edition buyers.

Give *everyone* an incomplete game.

Then EA's contribution: Prevent customers of GAME from getting collectors editions. Steal candy from baby. Twirl moustache.

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]
Then
-Add multiplayer
-Make it so that people who want to "win" the game are required to play multi player.
-Sell weapons to people who can't be arsed playing properly.
-Keep multiplayer events going, slowly mapping out the real conflict.
-Eventually
get to earth multiplayer event, announce new ending DLC at conclusion
of multiplayer event to vaugely tie it into the plot.
-Sell even more weapons to people who can't be arsed playing properly.
-Release DLC
-Get massive press coverage for surprise ending.
-Critical praise, ship another few hundred thousand copies, sell even more weapons to people who are new or just plain suck.
-Release more paid DLC to mostly appeased fanbase.
-Build new east wing for golden money-palace.

Sorted.

If EA are going with this plan they stand to make what? another $100 million?
They're already at ~$230m in game sales and "bioware points" sales.

[gyrosp]

I definitely will not buy any DLC for ME3. This ending took all of my motivation for playing ME 3 in the near future again.

The only DLC I would buy is a new ending. But this would be my last DLC/Game I buy from Bioware as it would be close to being criminel to take money for a new ending .

[stysiaq]

At PAX East panel, when asked about IT, BioWare didn't deny or confirm it. They said sth like "we're very happy that fans are so dedicated, they came up with it, so we won't comment on that". I don't remember what exactly they said, look it up if you want to.

The point is, that the crew does not disprove IT. The guy who made that 1h 24m our long 'documentary' on IT, recieved a message from Priestly that said "well put, can't say if it is true or false, bye".

Not "lol, look at the final prompt, IT is BS".

just let the people believe if you want to.

[vixvicco]

gyrosp wrote...

I definitely will not buy any DLC for ME3. This ending took all of my motivation for playing ME 3 in the near future again.

The only DLC I would buy is a new ending. But this would be my last DLC/Game I buy from Bioware as it would be close to being criminel to take money for a new ending .

Its free anyway. But it weren't, I agree with you. Esp since the Javik DLC was a dissapointment.

[CrazyRah]

Awww now i feel depressed again.. that image is evil! "buy more DLC" *cries*

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Bill Casey wrote...

If you fail to break the elder brain's illusion in Bioware's Neverwinter Nights 2: Hordes of the Underdark, the game acts like you've won...

Problem is, you get this message regardless of which choice you pick, so long as you pick a choice in the first place.

[clarkusdarkus]

i have mentioned before about that box being the downfall of the IT, as regardless of whether we understood the starbrat or not, were told we ended the reaper threat so its suppose to give us a peace of mind regardless of how crap they made it. Although i think the IT theory is pretty cool and an easy way out for them.

[Makrys]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

If you fail to break the elder brain's illusion in Bioware's Neverwinter Nights 2: Hordes of the Underdark, the game acts like you've won...

Problem is, you get this message regardless of which choice you pick, so long as you pick a choice in the first place.

Its the same in NN as well. And if you didn't get the message at the end of control or synthesis, then it would be obvious something is up. People don't understand, THEY CAN'T POINT OUT THAT IT IS TRUE. They want YOU to figure it out, and connect the dots. So everyone who's asking "Where's the proof?", you're never going to get legimitate 'proof' because there is none. And you're not meant to know exactly how the ending happened until the EC. People forget... they wanted speculation! They wanted people having differeing opinions and disecting the game and its ending. 

So no you'll never have definitive proof of the IT, because you can't prove a theory. All you will ever have are suggestions, hints, or clues that can lead you to think that there is something deeper going on throughout the game.

I still have yet to hear someone explain the 'oily shadows' in Shepard's dreams, as well as the various Reaper noises, AND whispers. Because every single one of those has been described either in the codex, or previous lore of the universe, to be direct examples of attempts to indoctrinate someone. All 3 are related to indoctrination. So its just a coincidence they were in Shepard's dreams? Ok. But look who's grasping at straws now. In fact, there is A LOT in which the Anti-IT crowd are trying to simply toss out the window with 'bad writing' or 'coincidences' when the IT crowd is backing up their findings and opinions with facts from the lore. So while nothing remains proven, there are considerable events that can be defined and explained with the IT which simply cannot be without it. Unless you just think Bioware took a dump on their best franchise at the last minute, set fire to it, and ran. If you believe that, then I can't help you.

Bioware built this universe. They've exemplified amazing writing techniques all throughout the trilogy, with amazing ends to each game. So, why would they abandon that strategy now, when it all matters... at the end? They wouldn't. The EC was planned because the ending was rushed. There are tweets that were soon after deleted, from Bioware regarding this. Obviously they were later deleted because I'm sure they deemed them as revealing too much... and reveal they did. Both that A. They have been working on the EC for some time, and B. The dreamy state of the end was intended. If Bill Casey is hanging around, he's got a couple links for you.

Modifié par Makrys, 18 mai 2012 - 03:42 .