103 réponses à ce sujet

[gamekid9002]

IF you think its too hard you just suck at it, the camera angles are perfect once you get used to them, people don't wanna pay 50 bucks for a game they can beat in 3 days, and for better ai just configure you tactics dip****! Drgaon Age is by far the BEST game I've ever had the privledge to play

[Fluffykeith]

Took me about a month of playing (evenings) to finish DA:O. I'd consider it time well spent. If it only took me a few days, as the OP suggests "most" gamers want (hah!), I'd have been pretty hacked off. I'd have felt like I'd wasted my time.

[Wolfva2]

Different strokes for different folks. Not everyone is going to like everything. But it is important to realize that just because you don't like something doesn't mean every one is going to agree with you. It's also important to actually check out a game, or anything else, before you buy it. When you don't, and you realize it's not for you, then it's your fault, not the games. I wish I could say the OP learned his lesson, but sadly from his post it's obvious he still lives in a deluded world where everything should cater to his wants and wishes. Perhaps, one day, he'll grow up and realize the world doesn't work like that.

[SheffSteel]

Does anyone else think that the OP is "not a very good gamer" ? That might be a better use for this thread. Oh wait... it already is.

[Zenon]

Probably the OP is not reading anymore. At least did not see any response. Alas I agree to SoD, that this player obviously expected something different. I like the more tactical approach with myself being able to alter the behavior of my teammates. And this part tends to have a learning curve. I once instructed my heal-mage companion to always drink heal potions when health

Well I can't complain about the healing and survival rate... but my stock of potions was melting like butter in the sun. Then I decided to do more micromanagement and let companions drink manually, so I could decide the last heal potion is more important for the tank instead of the healer. It bothered me sometimes finding an empty backpack when it was tactically advisable to have a reserve healing potion for the tank. Just an example. I'd like to have more tactical settings, where I can include an additional condition like: When hurt drink potion, unless there are only 2 left.

My post went off-topic a bit. I just wanted to use this as an example, that there is much more AI involved, than in most other games. But it can be customized in a way to cause the teammate screw up and make them behave dumber than they would in default setting. The OP obviously didn't have the patience to really try to get into the game.

Modifié par Zenon, 10 décembre 2009 - 10:11 .

[Dieover]

meh drama post..



camera angle is fine, I got ****** off at start but i manage to adapt and find the perfect setting base on where I'm at and stick with that setting. From there you can pan any where you like without messing it up.



As for the AI, i like it because you still need to manage them and tweak them the way you want it. Its not set and forget.



conclusion: its the OP fault by rushing through the game on a bad day



LOL

[Dasim4]

I have to agree with one thing, the team AI is very lacking. Even with good tactics they do things that are utterly stupid. And since there is no way I can personally control all of them at once without spending most of my playing time paused, there are times when it boils down to the programming being poorly done. Things like my team mates firing at an enemy who has been bubbled and can't be hurt, or refusing to heal or take a health pot even though I have it scripted in their tactics are issues that shouldn't exist. I also get very irritated when I pause and tell one of my team to attack a specific mob and the second I switch to my character they run off and attack someone else. I also get frustrated with the inability to tell individuals to hold their ground instead of it being the whole group. I want my healer, mage, or archer to stand their ground but melee characters need freedom to move around without me telling them to take 2 steps forward every time their opponent moves a bit. If I set them all free the ranged characters stupidly run right into the middle of the melee group and get chopped up or hit by enemy aoe attacks. This part of the game in particular was very poorly done.

That said I love DAO and find no other real faults with it. I'm on my second full run and am enjoying it as much as the first. The story is incredible and the amount of unique dialogue makes the game fun to play more than once. I love all the conversations my team has as we travel around. It's fun to listen to what they have to say.

Modifié par Dasim4, 10 décembre 2009 - 10:13 .

[igniteip]

Bioware games are for nerdy, intelligent folks. This is why many of the posters don't suffer fools.

[thakey_]

Zibon wrote...

That said, it would be glorious if the game were more like Mount and Blade (at least with the controls and scope of battles.)

*drools*

[Zealuu]

igniteip wrote...

Bioware games are for nerdy, intelligent folks. This is why many of the posters don't suffer fools.

I don't really think you have to be either to enjoy Mass Effect. Probably not DA:O either, as long as you're not expecting it to play like an FPS - as seems to be the original poster's cause of distress.

It's a bit like the clueless IGN reviewer who gave Football Manager 09 a 2/10 because "... the depth of management in this game is impressive. But, it’s not impressive enough to make up for the fact that you aren’t actually playing soccer.” The game is probably called Soccer Manager something something in the US, come to think of it... It's about actual football (you know, the one played with your feet), anyway.

[MerinTB]

Not A Very Good Post

I don't know if the formatting of OP's post is his fault or the forum's (I know that I've seen my posts do some wonky things I didn't tell them to) but it is hard to read.

Coming out with hypberolic statements, exaggerations like "this is the worst game I ever played" is just really begging for people to start a flame war.  Before another moderator points out that provocation is not grounds, I will just again agree by saying that even if you walk down a dark alley in the middle of the night in the bad part of a city with money hanging out of your pockets does not mean you deserve to be mugged you still should know better and were setting yourself up to get mugged.
So posting statements that will clearly upset fans of something is inviting attacks.  We're all pretty much guilty of it now and again (*ahem* sparkly vampires = Tolkien elves) but we should anticipate the blowback and not fan the flames wantonly.

This is not a dig on you but I don't think you tried the Tactics screen, or if you did you didn't work with it long enough to understand it.  Many of your complaints about the party AI is due to badly written tactics.  For example you can easily code your mage to case healing spells (if you have them) or any party member to use healing potions.
The rest of your complaints are because I think you expected a game different than what you bought.  The controlling a party of characters tactical RPG is what DAO was built to be, not a FPS, not an Action RPG HackNSlash.  Different games are built for different styles of gaming and different types of gamers, if Mass Effect is more your speed you are looking for Action RPGs (or this new breed of FPS RPGs - may I suggest trying VTM: Bloodlines for a wonderful experience!)

You say it isn't the 1990's anymore?  The FPS game mechanics you are praising are from the Wolfenstein 3D / Doom era of early 90's, while the Bioware mechanics of DAO for tactical RPGs are from (at earliest) the Planescape Torment/Baldur's Gate days of (wait for it) the 21st century, yes 1999-2001 or so.  So even that complaint is back-arseward.  And regardless of which came first, if players like a game mechanic then some games should use the mechanic.  There are tons of FPS style games, those of us who like tactical RPGs deserve a few of our style games here and there even if they don't please the FPS crowd.

In the end, what you list as flaws are mostly features of the game that work as intended.  It is a misnonmer to label an intended, working game feature as a flaw just because you don't like it.  I am sorry the game wasn't what you wanted - like I suggested, go check out VTM: Bloodlines - it's built on the Half-Life 2 engine, a FPS style rpg wtih a great story and cool character creation system.

Modifié par MerinTB, 10 décembre 2009 - 10:46 .

[shyguy1012]

1. Mass Effect is a RPG with guns instead of Sword and is in real time.



2. Diablo, Diablo 2, Elder Scrolls 1-4, are all real time RPGs as I said in my first post or did you not read it.



3.How are you going to set up tactics when the AI doesn't do what you tell them to do?



4.I did say what camera angle I wanted. I said Mass Effect camera angle us perfect. Again you did not read the whole article.



5. As I said in the article, what good are tactics it you can't employ hit fade tactics? I tried this and got hit by a melee character twenty away from him.



6.If you choose to be a warrior character than recipes are useless. You're telling me I need to be a Jack of all trades and a master of none. I am sorry, but for most RPG's this is not a good way to beat the game.



7.Can you strafe and shoot an arrow in Elder Scrolls? Yes, you can. Is it a real time RPG? Yes, it is. Can you strafe shoot an arrow in Dragon Age? No, you can't. Is Dragon Age a real time RPG? No, it is not.



8. I meant this article to be a warning to those who are thinking of buying Dragon Age, and don't know it is turn based. I am sorry to the ones got hurt by what I said, but I believe turn base RPG's are outdated. Most game companies would agree with me. Don't believe me? Than let's compare two RPG's that Bioware makes. Mass Effect's Soldier class can use any weapon he/she wants, but can't use psychokinesis powers. Warriors in Dragon Age can use any weapon they want, but can't use magic. I will admit that psychokinesis class can equip assault rifles, but are so ineffective with them they do little to no damage. It's the same way with the magi. You could put a sword in their hand, but they are so slow with it they can't do much damage with it. Mass Effect and Dragon Age are almost the same game. Replace the word sword with gun and the words turn based with real time. Do this and Dragon Age becomes the game Mass Effect already is. The better RPG. I have been a bit blunt, so sorry to the ones who are sure to bash me again.

[shyguy1012]

SheffSteel wrote...

Does anyone else think that the OP is "not a very good gamer" ? That might be a better use for this thread. Oh wait... it already is.

Just because I don't like your game does not mean I am a bad gamer.

[Aidunno]

Diablo is definately not an RPG. Yes it has "levels" and "fantasy" but that, to my mind, isn't what an RPG is. Elder scrolls.. single person I seem to remember, not party based therefore more of an FPS style. I think this is where some of your problems lie. You don't need to craft/do everything yourself. Different party members can learn different things. OK poisons and traps you need the skill to use but potions and balms you don't.



AI works for the majority of time when I use it.



As for "strafing", like most true RPG's (based upon the ideas of tabletop gaming) behind the scenes are dice rolls to hit etc, not the idea of simply lining up a cursor. This is, as many other people have mentioned, not an FPS. I guess having progressed from tabletop gaming in the early 80's I am probably very comfortable and familiar with the concept and love having it available as a computer game.



In this case is FPS an abbreviation for First Person Slasher I wonder...

[Skellimancer]

This game is easy www.youtube.com/watch just pause once in a while.

[Dolomite808]

OP, you should check out Borderlands. It sounds like you'd love it.



Also, turn based games are by no means outdated, they are merely a different style of gameplay. Personally, I like both turn-based and realtime games, I merely enjoy them for what they are.

[Kozuka78]

The OP quotes diablo and elder scrolls as examples of 'real time combat' when he clearly has no realisation of how they actually work. Ever try shooting something 5 levels above you in morrowind with a bow? Dice rolls in play my friend, just because you cant see them doesn't mean they dont exist.



You can play dragon age with WASD commands if you want too, I did for the entire game. The camera viewing distance and angle is completely adjustable via the mouse. Infact, dragon age uses the incredibly familiar movement and camera system adopted by the other game no one likes...you know, the one with 11 million subscribers.



I would say that the dragon age difficulty curve is gradual and excellent for casual players. If its too hard for you stick it on easy and nuke your way through. My complaint about the difficulty of dragon age is that its far too easy at the top of the curve, not the other way around.



Whilst dragon age has its faults, they are not the ones you list, and I dont think you have experianced enough of the game to formulate a credible opinion.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I might be crazy.  Let's just not say that, shall we?

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 11 décembre 2009 - 12:20 .

[SheffSteel]

shyguy1012 wrote...
7.Can you strafe and shoot an arrow in Elder Scrolls? Yes, you can. Is it a real time RPG? Yes, it is. Can you strafe shoot an arrow in Dragon Age? No, you can't. Is Dragon Age a real time RPG? No, it is not.

Can you strafe shoot in Xenon 2: Megablast? Yes, you can. Is Xenon 2: Megablast a real time RPG? No, it's a vertically scrolling shoot-em-up released in 1989 for 16-bit consoles and PC.

Can you strafe shoot in Doom? Yes, you can.

And so on.

I had a quick look online but I couldn't find the definition of "real time RPG", let alone one including strafing and shooting. At the risk of being argumentative, I don't think your working definition is very good. It sounds a lot more like a common feature of shooter games than of RPGs.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 11 décembre 2009 - 12:22 .

[MerinTB]

shyguy1012 wrote...

1. Mass Effect is a RPG with guns instead of Sword and is in real time.

2. Diablo, Diablo 2, Elder Scrolls 1-4, are all real time RPGs as I said in my first post or did you not read it.

3.How are you going to set up tactics when the AI doesn't do what you tell them to do?

4.I did say what camera angle I wanted. I said Mass Effect camera angle us perfect. Again you did not read the whole article.

5. As I said in the article, what good are tactics it you can't employ hit fade tactics? I tried this and got hit by a melee character twenty away from him.

6.If you choose to be a warrior character than recipes are useless. You're telling me I need to be a Jack of all trades and a master of none. I am sorry, but for most RPG's this is not a good way to beat the game.

7.Can you strafe and shoot an arrow in Elder Scrolls? Yes, you can. Is it a real time RPG? Yes, it is. Can you strafe shoot an arrow in Dragon Age? No, you can't. Is Dragon Age a real time RPG? No, it is not.

8. I meant this article to be a warning to those who are thinking of buying Dragon Age, and don't know it is turn based. I am sorry to the ones got hurt by what I said, but I believe turn base RPG's are outdated. Most game companies would agree with me. Don't believe me? Than let's compare two RPG's that Bioware makes. Mass Effect's Soldier class can use any weapon he/she wants, but can't use psychokinesis powers. Warriors in Dragon Age can use any weapon they want, but can't use magic. I will admit that psychokinesis class can equip assault rifles, but are so ineffective with them they do little to no damage. It's the same way with the magi. You could put a sword in their hand, but they are so slow with it they can't do much damage with it. Mass Effect and Dragon Age are almost the same game. Replace the word sword with gun and the words turn based with real time. Do this and Dragon Age becomes the game Mass Effect already is. The better RPG. I have been a bit blunt, so sorry to the ones who are sure to bash me again.

1.  Ok.  Don't know who's arguing this, but ok.

2. See 1.

3. You are going to have to give more than that.  It works fine for me.  It works fine for the developers.  It works fine for many, many other posters on these forums.  Give more specific examples and I bet some people on here can help you fix it (that is, again, assuming you want help and to not just gripe.)

4. It's fine you have a camera angle you want.  Not every game is going to give you what you want.  Would it be right of me to buy a game like Halo and then complain because it didn't give me the top-down strategic battlefield view I want, or Left 4 Dead and complain that I can't switch views between the computer controlled characters?

5. You lost me here - maybe this is a FPS term but I don't know what "hit fade" is.  I won the game once and am a bit into a second playthrough and I don't even know what "hit fade" is so I'd say that tactics are fine without it.

6. You choose your MC to be a warrior, you still have 3 other party members when running around and about 7 in your camp (not counting dog and shale) that can take herbalism.  Amongst all of them someone can get the skill and you use them to make potions.  This isn't rocket science, nor is it a single party-member game but a party-based game.  Take some NPC you'll never play and max out their herbalism (really, most people would argue you only need the first level.)

7. Shoot and strafe is not what qualifies as real-time, my friend.

http://en.wikipedia....ased#Turn-based

In turn-based games, game flow is partitioned into well-defined and visible parts, called turns. A player of a turn-based game is allowed a period of analysis (sometimes bounded, sometimes unbounded) before committing to a game action, ensuring a separation between the game flow and the thinking process, which in turn presumably leads to more optimal choices. Once every player has taken his or her turn, that round of play is over, and any special shared processing is done.
In real-time games, game time progresses continuously according to the game clock. Players perform actions simultaneously as opposed to in sequential units or turns. Players must perform actions with the consideration that their opponents are actively working against them in real time, and may act at any moment. This introduces time management considerations and additional challenges (such as physical coordination in the case of video games).

Buddy, you can have a turn-based game where your turn is taking a "shoot and strafe" action that, on your turn, your character moves side to side, granting a bonus to defense, while shooting with a penality to accuracy.

DAO emulates a turn-based game with the ability to pause the action, but if you don't pause the action the game clock runs and enemies continue to fight you and your characters, based on what tactics they have or what you told them to do, keep acting as well.

Turn-based is like Romance of the Three Kingdoms, like Civilization, like the old Gold Box SSI TSR D&D games.  The game stops, you make decisions on your action(s) for the turn, and then your actions are taken, and then it is the next character or player or the comptuer's turn.

Learn your definitions.

8. Could be considered admirable - I actually agree that people should know what they are buying before they buy it.  I don't think your post is really going to reach many perspective buyers here, however.

Modifié par MerinTB, 11 décembre 2009 - 12:26 .

[fro7k]

There was one problem I had with the camera: you'd click on something like an enemy or patch of ground in your line of sight to select it, but the camera disagrees and you hear that "crunch" noise. Rather annoying.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

shyguy1012 wrote...

I recently bought Dragon Age: Origins, and I have to say it is the
worst game I have ever played. The camera angles are horrible, it is
too difficult on any setting, the controls are just bad, friendly AI is
dumber than a box of rocks, and it's just not fun to play. This game
does not feel like it was play tested, or was play tested by extreme
gamers. You know the kind that aren't happy unless it takes them three
hours to play through level one on nightmare setting. I'll give you a
hint: most gamers are like me. They are casual gamers who only want
spend two to three day beat a game. At the rate I'm going it might take
me two to three months if I don't cheat. Here are somethings to keep in
mind when you make Dragon Age 2.

              Camera angles
and controls are dated and need to be updated. The WADS for the
computer are the best. It's better than a game-pad for most games. Move
your mouse left and look left. Move your mouse look right and look
right. Strafe right and move backwards at the same time. If you're like
me you can do a lot of things at once. Strafe right, while aiming,
while crouching, while firing my weapon and taking a sip of coffee.
It's not 1990 anymore and since then Diablo and Elder Scrolls have
happened. Real time direct control over your sword is possible. While
it kind of worked for Knight of the Old Republic, it wasn't as fun as
the other Jedi titles. In my opinion, watching a fight is less fun than
participating in one. As for camera angle look no farther then your
recent title Mass Effect. That would be the perfect angle. Can you
imagine the blood shed up close and personal? Instead, most of your
time is spent far from the action.

        The friendly AI in
Knights of the Old Republic is excellent. They use their powers and
abilities as often as possible. While they don't use health packs, you
can compensate by using the Jedi power heal. In Mass Effect you can
lead Wrex to cover, but that doesn't mean he will use it wisely. Again
you can compensate by taking direct control of your character aim and
kill the leftover bad guys. In Dragon Age your friends run straight
into an ambush. They almost never use their powers and never use manna
or health potions. Turning off tactics is only a half step better. Hit
and fade tactics are useless, because it's a turn based game. Two vs
one means that's two hits to my one. What could be a winnable battle,
ends up being suicide mission. For the most part I feel like I am
babysitting four characters, instead of taking care of my own. Friendly
AI is only one of the things that makes this game so difficult. Injury
kits are a rare find and you can't
buy a ton of them. As the saying goes you might win the battle, but end up losing the war.

 
      Okay, you get the point. I really did not like Dragon Age. To me
the flaws of this game gave me a headache. If I could, I would have
returned it for a different one. Hopefully Mass Effect 2 will makeup
for this game.

Simply put: Dragon Age is not a casual game.  It does require some time invested (atleast 40 hours) and it has a learning curve.  That doesn't make the game bad, it just means that you bought a game that wasn't meant for you.  There's plenty of casual RPG's on the market for you to play (hell, Mass Effect is one of the biggest) but Dragon Age was made for the more hardcore crowd.

Since you've already invested your money I'd recommend setting party member tactics so they perform better in combat, lower the difficulty to Easy and perhaps ask around the Gameplay section for some advice on how to play a bit better.  

[fro7k]

DA:O isn't easier or harder than other games, it's just a different playing style and one that not everyone is used to. Most people wouldn't expect to have to pause-pause-pause their game every few seconds, but that's what this game requires for the most part.