103 réponses à ce sujet

[Esternogligen]

In order for the OP to make this claim, he must compare this game to one of superior quality of his own design.



Until then... suck a fish.

[DarthRomance]

I actually agree with the OP on some points but still love this game. Medieval Mass Effect would be a win but this time you have to control your companions so a strategic camera is necessary. Hit and fade works fine for me when I use stealth and a longbow and keep my companions in hiding. I get mad when I die too but then victory is sweeter with a few losses, or many in my case. I appreciate the challenge and hope Bioware never designs games for so-called casual gamers. If people need to be helped along I hear the Wii is very family friendly.

[Fluffykeith]

1. Mass Effect was closer aimed at the FPS Market, with it's style of combat. You could still pause it to issue specific commands if you wanted to.



2. The Diablo games are dungeon hacks, not RPGs. They have barely any roleplaying and no conversations, just quests. Good games? Yes. Comparable to DA:O for style? Not so much.



3. If your party isn't doing what you want it to, chances are you have AI tactics set that conflict with each other. I noticed that Leliana refused to focus on the targets I had her set to attack, then discovered I hadn't removed the "attack target of hero" command. Think about how the seperate AI commands work and ensure they aren't telling your party members to do two differant things at once...



4. Since it's not a shooter style combat system, it doesn't need an over the shoulder camera angle. In any case the camera system gives you a massive amount of control over the view ( at least on pc) Whats the problem? I felt the camera worked almost exactly the same as most MMOs, while also allowing an old school isometric view for those that wanted it. Surely you don't want Bioware to give us LESS camera flexibility, do you?



5. Don't dismiss the whole concept of tactical combat that the game uses just because you can't use one or two specific tactical styles...styles that fit better in real time, twitch based games, DA:O is NOT that type of game. That doesn't make it bad, of less valid, just Differant.



6. Recipes useless if you play a warrior? What do you mean?



7. You're absolutely right. DA:O is not a real time game in the same mold as Mass Effect. That hardly invalidates DA:O as a game.



8. You say that you think this style of RPG is out-dated. Fair enough, youre entitled to think that. However it's a little unclear as to why...specifically why twitch based gaming is "better". Maybe it's not, maybe the two styles merely appeal to differant people. Tho I should point out I've played both Mass Effect and DA:O and liked both, but I think that DA:O wouldn't have been as much fun with Mass Effects combat system.

[Nokturnal Lex]

shyguy1012 wrote...

I recently bought Dragon Age: Origins, and I have to say it is the
worst game I have ever played. The camera angles are horrible, it is
too difficult on any setting, the controls are just bad, friendly AI is
dumber than a box of rocks, and it's just not fun to play. This game
does not feel like it was play tested, or was play tested by extreme
gamers. You know the kind that aren't happy unless it takes them three
hours to play through level one on nightmare setting. I'll give you a
hint: most gamers are like me. They are casual gamers who only want
spend two to three day beat a game. At the rate I'm going it might take
me two to three months if I don't cheat. Here are somethings to keep in
mind when you make Dragon Age 2.

              Camera angles
and controls are dated and need to be updated. The WADS for the
computer are the best. It's better than a game-pad for most games. Move
your mouse left and look left. Move your mouse look right and look
right. Strafe right and move backwards at the same time. If you're like
me you can do a lot of things at once. Strafe right, while aiming,
while crouching, while firing my weapon and taking a sip of coffee.
It's not 1990 anymore and since then Diablo and Elder Scrolls have
happened. Real time direct control over your sword is possible. While
it kind of worked for Knight of the Old Republic, it wasn't as fun as
the other Jedi titles. In my opinion, watching a fight is less fun than
participating in one. As for camera angle look no farther then your
recent title Mass Effect. That would be the perfect angle. Can you
imagine the blood shed up close and personal? Instead, most of your
time is spent far from the action.

        The friendly AI in
Knights of the Old Republic is excellent. They use their powers and
abilities as often as possible. While they don't use health packs, you
can compensate by using the Jedi power heal. In Mass Effect you can
lead Wrex to cover, but that doesn't mean he will use it wisely. Again
you can compensate by taking direct control of your character aim and
kill the leftover bad guys. In Dragon Age your friends run straight
into an ambush. They almost never use their powers and never use manna
or health potions. Turning off tactics is only a half step better. Hit
and fade tactics are useless, because it's a turn based game. Two vs
one means that's two hits to my one. What could be a winnable battle,
ends up being suicide mission. For the most part I feel like I am
babysitting four characters, instead of taking care of my own. Friendly
AI is only one of the things that makes this game so difficult. Injury
kits are a rare find and you can't
buy a ton of them. As the saying goes you might win the battle, but end up losing the war.

 
      Okay, you get the point. I really did not like Dragon Age. To me
the flaws of this game gave me a headache. If I could, I would have
returned it for a different one. Hopefully Mass Effect 2 will makeup
for this game.

Too difficult? Really? That's sad, been playing on nightmare and have yet to run into a fight that requires more strategy then disable/kill/heal.

Don't get me started on the ending, that was the biggest joke of all. Enemies dying in 1 or 2 hits? Seriously?

As far as AI, there should be at least the ability to allow for smarter/advanced players to program more intelligent AI via simple Visual Basic "If - Then" statements.

Balance is also a problem with certain sub-classes being insanely overpowered and others being completely useless. Should really work on QA like Blizzard does with their games, balance is a big issue.

Storyline was great though, but should've allowed for Mages to be Dalish as well (would've made complete sense that they weren't at the tower) the fun of replayability is lost when you want to reroll a mage and go through the same annoying background quest again and again. (Specially since Mages allow for the most customization. allowing for the most replayability, but due to being forced to do the same background quest each time gets really boring at the start)

All the bugs need fixing as well. Seems like Bioware definitely needs to hire more testers.

Although the difficulty problem could stem from the fact that this game pretends it's non-linear, but when in fact it is for a sizable duration. Seeing as I'm not allowed to discuss spoiler info. I can't tell you where the game wants you to go by making off-limit areas too difficult for your level.

I'd post it on the spoiler forums but sheer laziness has stopped me from registering my game.

Modifié par Nokturnal Lex, 11 décembre 2009 - 01:04 .

[SeanMurphy2]

Don't worry, most of Bioware's future games will probably have a combat system like Mass Effect or Elder Scrolls. And be beatable in two days.

Bioware were trying to make a final game for their Baldur's Gate fanbase.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 11 décembre 2009 - 12:53 .

[Dex1701]

shyguy1012 wrote...
8. I meant this article to be a warning to those who are thinking of buying Dragon Age, and don't know it is turn based. I am sorry to the ones got hurt by what I said, but I believe turn base RPG's are outdated. Most game companies would agree with me. Don't believe me? Than let's compare two RPG's that Bioware makes. Mass Effect's Soldier class can use any weapon he/she wants, but can't use psychokinesis powers. Warriors in Dragon Age can use any weapon they want, but can't use magic. I will admit that psychokinesis class can equip assault rifles, but are so ineffective with them they do little to no damage. It's the same way with the magi. You could put a sword in their hand, but they are so slow with it they can't do much damage with it. Mass Effect and Dragon Age are almost the same game. Replace the word sword with gun and the words turn based with real time. Do this and Dragon Age becomes the game Mass Effect already is. The better RPG. I have been a bit blunt, so sorry to the ones who are sure to bash me again.

So, turn-based and pause & play systems are outdated and shouldn't be used?  I guess that means that people shouldn't play chess?  I guess that also means that there shouldn't be time-outs in sports?  Ok, that last one was just a bit argumentative, but you see where I'm going.  For the record, DA:O is not turn-based.  Chess is turn-based.

It's not a matter of one style being outdated.  Real-time action has been around longer in video games than pause & play, so how can it be considered less "outdated?"  Action-strafing while attacking is a requirement now?  Most game companies would agree with you?  That just isn't anywhere close to being true.  Last time I checked MMORPGs and RTS games were still very popular, which means that there are plenty of gamers out there that enjoy tactical combat.  I personally like tactical gameplay and action gameplay for different reasons.  I get something different from each style of gameplay.  They are not mutually exclusive.

You, sir, do not like tactical RPG games.  You prefer action/RPG hybrid games, which is fine.  However, it isn't a fair argument to say that tactical games are somehow "not very good" or "outdated."  That's like saying that people shouldn't ride bicycles because we have cars.  Bicycles are not "outdated" despite the fact that there are reasons to prefer an automobile for certain kinds of trips.

I personally feel that DA:O is the better RPG depite the fact that I enjoyed Mass Effect.  Mass Effects combat was more "actiony," which was fun for what it was, but I was deeply disappointed with the fact that I couldn't really use small group tactics to win fights (not that any of the fights were difficult enough to need to, granted).  I was also disappointed with the shallowness of the RPG system in Mass Effect. 

In tactical RPGs the player issues orders to characters rather than controlling them in first-person with action game controls.  If you don't like that type of game that's fine, but your not liking the gameplay doesn't make it a bad game.  It just makes it a game that you don't happen to like.  Many others do.

Modifié par Dex1701, 11 décembre 2009 - 01:03 .

[chuckles471]

In no way do I agree with some things what the OP said (like the game being rubbish)............ but I do get what he said.

The camera can be rubbish if you don't play with the tactical view and play it in 3rd-person behind the player. The formation of the party behind you makes sure their is always some retard AI just running to get in the way of your pointer, just as you are about to click on a chest and then you enter a conversation of "What do you want" "nothing right now". I know I could just move the camera but it gets old really fast so I have to wait until my party stops moving before I select anything. Bioware make patch to get closer in on my player so I don't have to deal with the dumb diamond formation. I know it sounds petty but it annoys me no end.

Modifié par chuckles471, 11 décembre 2009 - 01:03 .

[jisan74]

shyguy1012 wrote...

I recently bought Dragon Age: Origins, and I have to say it is the
worst game I have ever played. The camera angles are horrible, it is
too difficult on any setting, the controls are just bad, friendly AI is
dumber than a box of rocks, and it's just not fun to play. This game
does not feel like it was play tested, or was play tested by extreme
gamers. You know the kind that aren't happy unless it takes them three
hours to play through level one on nightmare setting. I'll give you a
hint: most gamers are like me. They are casual gamers who only want
spend two to three day beat a game. At the rate I'm going it might take
me two to three months if I don't cheat. Here are somethings to keep in
mind when you make Dragon Age 2. 

I found the camera angles find to me.The AI behave based on there tactic and behaviors.Which in this game you can adjust the way you want much like final fantasy 12 and it's gambits.You mentioned knight of the old republic ai.I had to say it was the worest gane for ai being stupid.i had characters in that game doing things they shouldn't do or run off like idiots.
At least in  dragon age you have better control of your ai's when you adust them to act the way you want.

This game is an rpg not a shooter so i feel the game should take at least 2 weeks of playing at a rate of 4-6 hours a day to complete.if an rpg takes less than a week to beat then it s not a true rpg and fro that matter not even worth my time playing.Also if yo do decide to cheat then you shouldn't even bother with this game at all.I can't stand people who cheat at games.

on a final note this is one of them best rpgs i played in a long while.

[rabbitchannel]

shyguy1012 wrote...

1. Mass Effect is a RPG with guns instead of Sword and is in real time.

2. Diablo, Diablo 2, Elder Scrolls 1-4, are all real time RPGs as I said in my first post or did you not read it.

3.How are you going to set up tactics when the AI doesn't do what you tell them to do?

4.I did say what camera angle I wanted. I said Mass Effect camera angle us perfect. Again you did not read the whole article.

5. As I said in the article, what good are tactics it you can't employ hit fade tactics? I tried this and got hit by a melee character twenty away from him.

6.If you choose to be a warrior character than recipes are useless. You're telling me I need to be a Jack of all trades and a master of none. I am sorry, but for most RPG's this is not a good way to beat the game.

7.Can you strafe and shoot an arrow in Elder Scrolls? Yes, you can. Is it a real time RPG? Yes, it is. Can you strafe shoot an arrow in Dragon Age? No, you can't. Is Dragon Age a real time RPG? No, it is not.

8. I meant this article to be a warning to those who are thinking of buying Dragon Age, and don't know it is turn based. I am sorry to the ones got hurt by what I said, but I believe turn base RPG's are outdated. Most game companies would agree with me. Don't believe me? Than let's compare two RPG's that Bioware makes. Mass Effect's Soldier class can use any weapon he/she wants, but can't use psychokinesis powers. Warriors in Dragon Age can use any weapon they want, but can't use magic. I will admit that psychokinesis class can equip assault rifles, but are so ineffective with them they do little to no damage. It's the same way with the magi. You could put a sword in their hand, but they are so slow with it they can't do much damage with it. Mass Effect and Dragon Age are almost the same game. Replace the word sword with gun and the words turn based with real time. Do this and Dragon Age becomes the game Mass Effect already is. The better RPG. I have been a bit blunt, so sorry to the ones who are sure to bash me again.

I see replies to some of my points. What is this, a general reply to everyone?

1&2. Not mine.

3. My AI does exactly what I tell them to do. I really don't know how to address this anymore. Set your statements better? You realize that it checks the first command first and the rest in order? 

4. This is addressed to me. Ah yes, I missed that. My mistake, but you didn't say what was wrong with the camera in the first place. I, myself, found the ME cam restricting. What, exactly, is it that you can see with the ME cam that you can't see with the DA cam? Post a screenshot if you will, and I will use the DA cam to take an identical one. Also, I addressed all your points (I think I did?). You're selectively answering one or two of mine.

5. I've only used hit and run strategies once. Actually, you can use it pretty well. You just have to make it so that when you turn a corner running from your enemy, you don't get too near or you will get hit, as you mentioned. That said, I never used it after that. Simply because... I didn't need to resort to that. I always feel stupid using hit and run. It's a coward's strategy, IMO. The only time it's needed is when your characters seriously can't handle the challenge.

6. I had a warrior the first time and I made potions. You know how? I had Wynne. I had Morrigan too. A Jack-of-all-trades would pretty much take out the R from RPG yes? That's why the Warrior handles the fighting and melee, Rogue handles locks, traps, and poison, and Mage handles herbalism. Even if you were going with an all melee party, there is still no excuse. Go to the camp, have the mages craft some kits, then leave.

7. I would argue that Elder Scrolls is a shooter in an RPG world. DA:O is what I would call a DnD-based RPG. Someone clarify for me, I'm not good with these terms. Elder Scrolls = bastard of shooter and RPG. When I think of RPG, I don't think of the Elder Scrolls. Real-time? Sure. RPG? Eh, Kind of. I think of NWN, NWN 2, Icewind Dale, BG, and the like. I don't even think of ME as an RPG. 

8. Do not make a statement on behalf of game companies everywhere using your opinion of which game is better as fact. ME and DA:O are too different, in my opinion to compare. I can compare DA:O and NWN 2 but not DA:O and ME. The gameplay and strategy is too different and you are over simplifying everything. I believe your reasoning and comparison is flawed here and I will not argue any further on this point. 

Lastly, I see you making attempts to discredit my arguments by stating I didn't read your article. Admittedly, I overlooked the part where you mentioned ME's camera as the ideal camera. As for 1&2, I don't think I said anything related to that. I would rather have overlooked that tiny tidbit of yours than be like you, selectively replying to only a handful of points while leaving the others untouched. Unable to answer? Proven wrong? Didn't read my article? Who knows.

edit: Oh, I see what 2 is directed at. I did not say that they weren't RPGs. I said that those camera views would be inconvenient for DA:O. You didn't address my actual point, which was how you're going to pinpoint where your spells will be cast without zooming out, and panning forward, and selecting it. 

Modifié par rabbitchannel, 11 décembre 2009 - 01:41 .

[jisan74]

shyguy1012 wrote...


2. Diablo, Diablo 2, Elder Scrolls 1-4, are all real time RPGs as I said in my first post or did you not read it.
.

I will say this once.I've played elder scrolls and they are less of an rpg but more first person shooter than a true rpg.Like someone else said i don't think of elder scrolls as an rpg either.more hack and slash type of game.with a hint of rpg to them.Dragon age is very close to D&D  in the way a true rpgs is suppose to be.

Modifié par jisan74, 11 décembre 2009 - 01:34 .

[Dex1701]

Lohe wrote...

imo every game where you can play a role is a role playgame....so morrowind is one, oblivion is one, dao is one. even fallout 3 is a rpg to me. microanalyzing the definiation of rpg isnt something I want to really know for just a hobby.

The definition of a term comes from a majority concensus of said term's meaning within a cultural context, though.  Sure, you play a "role" in most video games, yet the term "RPG" is used in the gaming industry to classify certain types of games with certain types of gameplay features.  There must be more to the meaning of the term within the cultural context of "video games" that differentiates it from other games that do not bear this classification.  DA:O is also an "adventure" game, but that isn't sufficient to describe the gameplay to a prospective buyer.

Modifié par Dex1701, 11 décembre 2009 - 02:06 .

[Druscylla]

Sorry mate. I'm with the L2P crowd. You don't HAVE to play it.

[TastyLaksa]

Druscylla wrote...

Sorry mate. I'm with the L2P crowd. You don't HAVE to play it.

So you one of them who are learning to play?

I kid! I kid!

[VanDraegon]

Lots of hyperbole, conjecture and exaggeration in the OP. Hard to take it seriously.

[Apocalizz]

 Too long? I really hope BioWare doesn't take up on this advice and makes a next game beatable in 2 days!

I'm also a casual player, I play on easy and think that's challenging enough, I'm pretty sure I have stupid tactics and talent choices, but I've been playing the game since november and still haven't finished my first playthrough and I love it! I guess there's also people who are "hardcore' and can still get fun and satisfaction from the game by playing it in a harder difficulty and by extraordinary micromanagement. I just love the story and I hope I have many many many hours to come, and I think I will be sad when it ends. And I'm glad the story can be enjoyed by noobs like me and seasoned gamers alike

My boyfriend also dismissed the game within 2 hours, and I keep wanting to convince him he's missing out, but I can understand different people like different games. But please, don't come here to tell "for your next game, make it this and this..." just go play another game and let us have our fun will you?

Modifié par Apocalizz, 11 décembre 2009 - 12:34 .

[SleeplessInSigil]

SeanMurphy2 wrote...

Don't worry, most of Bioware's future games will probably have a combat system like Mass Effect or Elder Scrolls. And be beatable in two days.

Bioware were trying to make a final game for their Baldur's Gate fanbase.

ugh ..heh that made my heart skip an aching beat, because I can't help but myself feel that it just might be true. 

http://www.penny-arc...comic/2008/3/5/

[Havlock556]

There was nothing earth shatteringly new about DAO. If you'd played any Bioware game previously, you'd know there would be a kick ass storyline, amusing companions and definately something for the heartstrings. The combat system is again, nice, but nothing new.



But I have to say, this is the first game in years that I've played where I'd played for close to 20 hours straight in one sitting. And giving serious thought to taking a week's leave from work Best game I've played in a long long time. Also, no probs with my AI (not that I've worked it out) or with potions, with any of my Warriors, Rogues or Mages

[Naglfarr]

Please get yourself a Wii. Thank you.

[Errel]

I got as far as "Most gamers want to finish a game in 3 days", the tears in my eyes stopped me from reading any further. Sorry. I tried.

[VanDraegon]

Apocalizz wrote...

 Too long? I really hope BioWare doesn't take up on this advice and makes a next game beatable in 2 days!

I'm also a casual player, I play on easy and think that's challenging enough, I'm pretty sure I have stupid tactics and talent choices, but I've been playing the game since november and still haven't finished my first playthrough and I love it! I guess there's also people who are "hardcore' and can still get fun and satisfaction from the game by playing it in a harder difficulty and by extraordinary micromanagement. I just love the story and I hope I have many many many hours to come, and I think I will be sad when it ends. And I'm glad the story can be enjoyed by noobs like me and seasoned gamers alike

My boyfriend also dismissed the game within 2 hours, and I keep wanting to convince him he's missing out, but I can understand different people like different games. But please, don't come here to tell "for your next game, make it this and this..." just go play another game and let us have our fun will you?

I think you might be my soul mate.Don't tell my wife though.

[JokitoRoyo]

Well not everyone is going to get it. I will say that the AI manipulation/planning interface in DA is so much better than the old AI routines from BG. But it does take a while to tweak the AI to perform as you intend it.



Also if you notice they aren't doing anything you told them to, make sure you haven't accidentally disabled the AI. /raisehand



Good luck, hope ME2 is more to your liking.

[mathewgurney]

I don't agree with the people claiming this is more of an RPG than Oblivion, Falllout 3 etc. An RPG is any game where you can develop your character in any way that another person might choose to do differently. You could say however that the quality of an RPG is determined by how MUCH customisation is possible within the game, limited choices make for a poor RPG. I'm not going to say which type of RPG is better because i like them all. What i will say is that currently this brilliant game is so ruined by bugs that i don't want to play it, sadly much the same as every other RPG i've played, so maybe this should be a factor determining RPG'ness too lol. If it's all bugged to hell for a short while after release then you can bet it's an RPG, maybe that's even a bonus because it denotes complexity, at least if it's remedied quickly ^^

[MerinTB]

True, this isn't more of an RPG than Oblivion or Fallout 3.



It is more of an RPG than Diablo and Diablo 2 by far, however.

[Baalzie]

Obvious troll is obvious!



And doh! Fps huggers are always sucky at most other games...

This game being too hard on any setting??? Wtf? That's so impossible... On easy it's night inpossible to die when soloing with ANY character... And no, I'm NOT any imba leet player, just about average I'd say...



I guess You have loads of fun trying to aggravate the playerbase here, sadly most are falling for it...

I would give You a low score of 5/10 for bad attempt actually, but hey I'm an old troll... I've been trawling the intahwebb since the day of bbs's *yes before Arpanet, and if You don't know what THAT is, You are not worth debating Internet with*



Have fun not playing the best game of the year^^