238 réponses à ce sujet

[Malditor]

My initial ending was the synthesis. I still feel like it's the best. It's not the same as giving in to the reapers. By giving into the reapers all the civilizations who are advanced still get destroyed. Synthesis allows all to continue living while combining synthetic and biological. Seeing as how that was the trend of virtually all characters at some level I hardly see it as something horribly wrong. Think about how many characters had implants of one kind or another. It was considered normal to augment biological bodies with technology. This just takes that a step further. It doesn't surrender control of the mind to reapers. I also took the destroy ending because I felt that was the ultimate goal from the start and to turn from it at the end didn't make sense. Though I mourned the loss of EDI and the Geth. Nobody can be said to have made the "wrong" decision as each person came to their own conclusion as to what was personally right for them.

[Forst1999]

Bill Casey wrote...

Forst1999 wrote...

And Synthesis is hardly what Saren wanted.

Catalyst: The chain reaction will combine organic and synthetic life into a new framework. A new... DNA.
Saren: The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither.

Catalyst: Synthesis is the final evolution of life.
Saren: I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny.

Leaked Script: Become one with the Reapers
Saren: Join Sovereign, and experience a true rebirth.

Catalyst: But we need eachother to make it happen.
Saren: But if we work with the Reapers, if we make ourselves useful. Think of how many lives could be spared.

Ok, maybe it is similar to an idealized version of Saren's goal. But the people of the galaxy are NO Reaper slaves in the Synthesis ending, so it is not the same. Synthesis is coexistence, Saren only offered servitude. Your last quote actually supports this point.

[mass perfection]

Destroy would be selfish if you only do it for reuniting with your friends and loved ones.

[dreman9999]

Optimystic_X wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

Not if destroy still kills the Geth and Edi

So you ok with inslaving them and rerighting them. The geth and EDI said themselves thye rather die then have that happen to them.

[dreman9999]

Forst1999 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Forst1999 wrote...

And Synthesis is hardly what Saren wanted.

Catalyst: The chain reaction will combine organic and synthetic life into a new framework. A new... DNA.
Saren: The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither.

Catalyst: Synthesis is the final evolution of life.
Saren: I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny.

Leaked Script: Become one with the Reapers
Saren: Join Sovereign, and experience a true rebirth.

Catalyst: But we need eachother to make it happen.
Saren: But if we work with the Reapers, if we make ourselves useful. Think of how many lives could be spared.

Ok, maybe it is similar to an idealized version of Saren's goal. But the people of the galaxy are NO Reaper slaves in the Synthesis ending, so it is not the same. Synthesis is coexistence, Saren only offered servitude. Your last quote actually supports this point.

You missing one key fact...Who is deciding what goes into organics in Synthesis? Saran is an examle of how the reapers can control organics with implants.....What stopping that from happening with organics with the star child in charge?

[Malditor]

dreman9999 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

Not if destroy still kills the Geth and Edi

So you ok with inslaving them and rerighting them. The geth and EDI said themselves thye rather die then have that happen to them.

where do you get enslave and rewrite them? synthesis does neither, the only thing that changes is the physical makeup of their body.

[Forst1999]

dreman9999 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

Not if destroy still kills the Geth and Edi

So you ok with inslaving them and rerighting them. The geth and EDI said themselves thye rather die then have that happen to them.

Nothing suggests that the Geth are "enslaved" in control or synthesis. (By the way, at least before they got the final upgrade, the Geth actually seemed to prefer enslavement over extinction. Uncertain if that changed)

[PsyrenY]

dreman9999 wrote...

So you ok with inslaving them and rerighting them. The geth and EDI said themselves thye rather die then have that happen to them.

The Geth and EDI are not Reapers.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 18 mai 2012 - 08:57 .

[dreman9999]

Malditor wrote...

My initial ending was the synthesis. I still feel like it's the best. It's not the same as giving in to the reapers. By giving into the reapers all the civilizations who are advanced still get destroyed. Synthesis allows all to continue living while combining synthetic and biological. Seeing as how that was the trend of virtually all characters at some level I hardly see it as something horribly wrong. Think about how many characters had implants of one kind or another. It was considered normal to augment biological bodies with technology. This just takes that a step further. It doesn't surrender control of the mind to reapers. I also took the destroy ending because I felt that was the ultimate goal from the start and to turn from it at the end didn't make sense. Though I mourned the loss of EDI and the Geth. Nobody can be said to have made the "wrong" decision as each person came to their own conclusion as to what was personally right for them.

There's a problem with that. You just left the crucible to be used as the star child sees fit. And you let him use it to implant people in mass. Last time I checked the reapercan control people via implants....Whatstopping the star child from having thatmuch control?

As TIM said in ME3 after he failed to control the reapers..

"...Do you think like this power come  easy? There are sacrfices"

And as Shepard sain in ME1...

"You let them implant you!? Are you insane!?"

[MisterJB]

dreman9999 wrote...
You missing one key fact...Who is deciding what goes into organics in Synthesis? Saran is an examle of how the reapers can control organics with implants.....What stopping that from happening with organics with the star child in charge?

The StarChild is not in charge. Who build the Crucible? We did.
And then we use Reaper technology to make it possible. It's no submission, it's cooperation. On our terms

And Reaper technology can be used by sentients without sacrificing their freedom as evidenced by EDI.

[dreman9999]

Optimystic_X wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

So you ok with inslaving them and rerighting them. The geth and EDI said themselves thye rather die then have that happen to them.

The Geth and EDI are not Reapers.

But control controals all synthetics. Not just reapers. Synthesis is another form of brain washing.

You really want to do that to a group of beings that said they reather die then let that happen?

[Forst1999]

dreman9999 wrote...
You missing one key fact...Who is deciding what goes into organics in Synthesis? Saran is an examle of how the reapers can control organics with implants.....What stopping that from happening with organics with the star child in charge?

"Shepard's energy/everything he is"  "goes into organics in Synthesis". However that is supposed to work, it is different from Reaper implants. 

[Malditor]

You are assuming the "star child" wasn't destroy with the reapers. I assume the "star child", no longer being needed to control the reapers, was destroyed or ceased to exist.

[MisterJB]

dreman9999 wrote...
But control controals all synthetics. Not just reapers. Synthesis is another form of brain washing.

You really want to do that to a group of beings that said they reather die then let that happen?

There is no evidence Control affects anything but the Reapers.

[dreman9999]

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
You missing one key fact...Who is deciding what goes into organics in Synthesis? Saran is an examle of how the reapers can control organics with implants.....What stopping that from happening with organics with the star child in charge?

The StarChild is not in charge. Who build the Crucible? We did.
And then we use Reaper technology to make it possible. It's no submission, it's cooperation. On our terms

And Reaper technology can be used by sentients without sacrificing their freedom as evidenced by EDI.

Who else knows about want you did at the end? Who else has access to the crucible at the end? If you ran off that edge or grabed the power lines, that just leaves the star kid. My pointis after doing all the work...You gave the star kid the key and told him"Do what ever you want."

And thr entire proble is that you thing your cooperationing with them. What type of logicis that?

Modifié par dreman9999, 18 mai 2012 - 09:10 .

[dreman9999]

Malditor wrote...

You are assuming the "star child" wasn't destroy with the reapers. I assume the "star child", no longer being needed to control the reapers, was destroyed or ceased to exist.

What does"I know your thinking about destroying us" mean?

[ScotGaymer]

I chose synthesis in my one and only play thru because it seemed like it was the best ending initially because the game really seemed to be bashing me over the head with "pick THIS option! its really the best one! we swear!"
Or at least it seemed the least terrible of the endings.

But upon reflection I regret my choice of synthesis, as it is actually the WORST of the three options because it is inherently racist.

The connotations of it are horrifying.

The Mass Effect trilogy could be taken as one long arguement for tolerance of difference, and about the strength of diversity. Of many different voices and opinions and views coming together in common cause.

And synthesis takes this and says that no in actuality everything different is evil and wrong and must be assimilated or destroyed.

Suddenly...

"We are The Borg! Prepare to be assimilated! Resistance is futile!"

It's just awful, and horrific. It smacks of facism.

Not because it presents a borg like ideology in the ME universe, but because it presents it in such a way as to give the impression that squashing difference and homogenising everything so it is the same is the BEST OPTION FOR EVERYONE.
It's really disturbing.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 18 mai 2012 - 09:08 .

[dreman9999]

Forst1999 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
You missing one key fact...Who is deciding what goes into organics in Synthesis? Saran is an examle of how the reapers can control organics with implants.....What stopping that from happening with organics with the star child in charge?

"Shepard's energy/everything he is"  "goes into organics in Synthesis". However that is supposed to work, it is different from Reaper implants. 

Did you miss the fact that the star child has to use the crucible to send everything he is out. Do you not even get that Shepardis not infused with tech down to his dna....How can he be a blue pront of that.

Why are you giving such trust to the star child? He is diciding what is being put in organics with the crucible, he can put form of mind control he wants.

If you can see that the disison does solve te issues he brings up,then you have to assume he is not telling us everything about his salution.

[Forst1999]

dreman9999 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
You missing one key fact...Who is deciding what goes into organics in Synthesis? Saran is an examle of how the reapers can control organics with implants.....What stopping that from happening with organics with the star child in charge?

The StarChild is not in charge. Who build the Crucible? We did.
And then we use Reaper technology to make it possible. It's no submission, it's cooperation. On our terms

And Reaper technology can be used by sentients without sacrificing their freedom as evidenced by EDI.

Who else knowsabout want you did at the end? Who else has acsess to the crucible at the end? If you ran off that edge or grabed the power lines, that just leavesthe star kid. My pointis after doing all the work...You gave the star kid the key and told him"Do what ever you want."

And thr entire proble is that you thing your cooperationing with them. What type of logicis that?

With the Relay Network gone, he couldn't fire the crucible another time. Or if he could, he could only reach the Sol system. And even before, it seems he couldn't interact with it. Else he would have just done that and had left Shep to die on this elevator.

[MisterJB]

dreman9999 wrote...
Who else knowsabout want you did at the end? Who else has acsess to the crucible at the end? If you ran off that edge or grabed the power lines, that just leavesthe star kid. My pointis after doing all the work...You gave the star kid the key and told him"Do what ever you want."

The StarChild itself admits it can't affect the possibilities created by the Crucible. There is no basis to claim it has acess to the result other than irrational fear.
And the Citadel is destroyed in the Synthesis ending. Why do you think StarChild would have survived?

And thr entire proble is that you thing your cooperationing with them. What type of logicis that?

An advanced one.
Are we really so primitive we can't accept any solution to the Reaper threat that doesn't involve "Let's destroy them all!"?

[dreman9999]

Malditor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

Not if destroy still kills the Geth and Edi

So you ok with inslaving them and rerighting them. The geth and EDI said themselves thye rather die then have that happen to them.

where do you get enslave and rewrite them? synthesis does neither, the only thing that changes is the physical makeup of their body.

Control is stated to control all syntheics.Synthesis forces coexsistance.....

[Malditor]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I chose synthesis in my one and only play thru because it seemed like it was the best ending initially because the game really seemed to be bashing me over the head with "pick THIS option! its really the best one! we swear!"
Or at least it seemed the least terrible of the endings.

But upon reflection I regret my choice of synthesis, as it is actually the WORST of the three options because it is inherently racist.

The connotations of it are horrifying.

The Mass Effect trilogy could be taken as one long arguement for tolerance of difference, and about the strength of diversity. Of many different voices and opinions and views coming together in common cause.

And synthesis takes this and says that no in actuality everything different is evil and wrong and must be assimilated or destroyed.

Suddenly...

"We are The Borg! Prepare to be assimilated! Resistance is futile!"

It's just awful, and horrific. It smacks of facism.

Not because it presents a borg like ideology in the ME universe, but because it presents it in such a way as to give the impression that squashing difference and homogenising everything so it is the same is the BEST OPTION FOR EVERYONE.
It's really disturbing.

In order for it to be "racist" it would have to make all beings look the same. However, they don't. It just combines synthetic and biological life. At the end, everyone lookes just as they did prior, only they now have the glowing green skin mesh pulse.

[Malditor]

dreman9999 wrote...

Malditor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

Not if destroy still kills the Geth and Edi

So you ok with inslaving them and rerighting them. The geth and EDI said themselves thye rather die then have that happen to them.

where do you get enslave and rewrite them? synthesis does neither, the only thing that changes is the physical makeup of their body.

Control is stated to control all syntheics.Synthesis forces coexsistance.....

I seem to remember that control was control of the reapers. How would control extend to all synthetics if there wasn't already the ability? The geth and edi were actively fighting the Reapers. If the "star child" had the ability to control them then they would have been fighting WITH the Reapers.

[dreman9999]

Malditor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Malditor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

Not if destroy still kills the Geth and Edi

So you ok with inslaving them and rerighting them. The geth and EDI said themselves thye rather die then have that happen to them.

where do you get enslave and rewrite them? synthesis does neither, the only thing that changes is the physical makeup of their body.

Control is stated to control all syntheics.Synthesis forces coexsistance.....

I seem to remember that control was control of the reapers. How would control extend to all synthetics if there wasn't already the ability? The geth and edi were actively fighting the Reapers. If the "star child" had the ability to control them then they would have been fighting WITH the Reapers.

The crucible would give him that power... Also, there is one line you missed with control as well...

"Yes you will  die. You can control us but you lose everything you have".
 
Now who is the one that is control of what is up loaded in the system?

[dreman9999]

Malditor wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I chose synthesis in my one and only play thru because it seemed like it was the best ending initially because the game really seemed to be bashing me over the head with "pick THIS option! its really the best one! we swear!"
Or at least it seemed the least terrible of the endings.

But upon reflection I regret my choice of synthesis, as it is actually the WORST of the three options because it is inherently racist.

The connotations of it are horrifying.

The Mass Effect trilogy could be taken as one long arguement for tolerance of difference, and about the strength of diversity. Of many different voices and opinions and views coming together in common cause.

And synthesis takes this and says that no in actuality everything different is evil and wrong and must be assimilated or destroyed.

Suddenly...

"We are The Borg! Prepare to be assimilated! Resistance is futile!"

It's just awful, and horrific. It smacks of facism.

Not because it presents a borg like ideology in the ME universe, but because it presents it in such a way as to give the impression that squashing difference and homogenising everything so it is the same is the BEST OPTION FOR EVERYONE.
It's really disturbing.

In order for it to be "racist" it would have to make all beings look the same. However, they don't. It just combines synthetic and biological life. At the end, everyone lookes just as they did prior, only they now have the glowing green skin mesh pulse.

It makes all being the same...Remeber, final evolution. That's racist enough.