238 réponses à ce sujet

[feliciano2040]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I would never force it on people against their will. They have a right to choose.

As awful as it sounds I feel a great number of people would rather choose Destroy and sacrifice thousands against their rather than change the entirety of organic life against their will based upon a hypothetical situation presented by the Catalyst.

You can find the basis against a singularity in the new thread I created about ethics.

This is irrationality at it's best.

First there's absolutely nothing wrong about Synthesis save for your inherent dislike and rationalization of the entire thing. 

Second, the majority of choices (if not ALL OF THEM) are done without majoritarian (sp) consent, they are political and military decisions done by Shepard, a single soldier with a unique view on each situation, nobody was thinking about how you "have no right" when people killed the council, released the rachni queen, destroyed Maleon's data or cured the genophage, Synthesis is no different than any of the former in that respect.

[Malditor]

It doesn't make all beings the same. Seriously, look at the ending, everyone is still different. Final evolution is combining synthetic and biologic. Nothing more. Any argument to make any choice but the one you like wrong I see.

[ScotGaymer]

Malditor wrote...


In order for it to be "racist" it would have to make all beings look the same. However, they don't. It just combines synthetic and biological life. At the end, everyone lookes just as they did prior, only they now have the glowing green skin mesh pulse.

Don't be daft.

Racism doesn't just focus on the superficial.

Synthesis homogenises ALL DNA at a molecular level into the "same" thing.

It says that genetic difference, and diversity - is wrong. So yes it IS racist.

You are focussing on superificial appearances. Not on what makes you you.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 18 mai 2012 - 09:21 .

[dreman9999]

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Who else knowsabout want you did at the end? Who else has acsess to the crucible at the end? If you ran off that edge or grabed the power lines, that just leavesthe star kid. My pointis after doing all the work...You gave the star kid the key and told him"Do what ever you want."

The StarChild itself admits it can't affect the possibilities created by the Crucible. There is no basis to claim it has acess to the result other than irrational fear.
And the Citadel is destroyed in the Synthesis ending. Why do you think StarChild would have survived?

And thr entire proble is that you thing your cooperationing with them. What type of logicis that?

An advanced one.
Are we really so primitive we can't accept any solution to the Reaper threat that doesn't involve "Let's destroy them all!"?

1. What he says is he can't make the choice. He never says he can't effect them. No one else is let to apply you choice but him so.....He would be the one to dictate how it's applied.
2. No it's not. You not understanding that we don't need the reapers salution. This is force evolution, one that is unneeded. No one will die if this form of evolution is not applied.That the entire thing you were fighting in ME..Forced evolution.

[Malditor]

Racism is based on difference of appearance, not dna level.

[Malditor]

dreman9999 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Who else knowsabout want you did at the end? Who else has acsess to the crucible at the end? If you ran off that edge or grabed the power lines, that just leavesthe star kid. My pointis after doing all the work...You gave the star kid the key and told him"Do what ever you want."

The StarChild itself admits it can't affect the possibilities created by the Crucible. There is no basis to claim it has acess to the result other than irrational fear.
And the Citadel is destroyed in the Synthesis ending. Why do you think StarChild would have survived?

And thr entire proble is that you thing your cooperationing with them. What type of logicis that?

An advanced one.
Are we really so primitive we can't accept any solution to the Reaper threat that doesn't involve "Let's destroy them all!"?

1. What he says is he can't make the choice. He never says he can't effect them. No one else is let to apply you choice but him so.....He would be the one to dictate how it's applied.
2. No it's not. You not understanding that we don't need the reapers salution. This is force evolution, one that is unneeded. No one will die if this form of evolution is not applied.That the entire thing you were fighting in ME..Forced evolution.

No one will die? Really? I suppose if you don't consider synthetics alive then you can make that statement. And the entire thing we were fighting was EXTINCTION.

[ReallyRue]

Only if it turns out that the Indoctrination Theory is true.

[dreman9999]

feliciano2040 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I would never force it on people against their will. They have a right to choose.

As awful as it sounds I feel a great number of people would rather choose Destroy and sacrifice thousands against their rather than change the entirety of organic life against their will based upon a hypothetical situation presented by the Catalyst.

You can find the basis against a singularity in the new thread I created about ethics.

This is irrationality at it's best.

First there's absolutely nothing wrong about Synthesis save for your inherent dislike and rationalization of the entire thing. 

Second, the majority of choices (if not ALL OF THEM) are done without majoritarian (sp) consent, they are political and military decisions done by Shepard, a single soldier with a unique view on each situation, nobody was thinking about how you "have no right" when people killed the council, released the rachni queen, destroyed Maleon's data or cured the genophage, Synthesis is no different than any of the former in that respect.

The problem is that it's forced and it's applied in a way that someone elseis left in control of everything.
 Let people choose to do this, not force something unneeded on them say it's better to do this.
I don't need to have any technology in my body...Why is it forced on me?

[Malditor]

dreman9999 wrote...

feliciano2040 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I would never force it on people against their will. They have a right to choose.

As awful as it sounds I feel a great number of people would rather choose Destroy and sacrifice thousands against their rather than change the entirety of organic life against their will based upon a hypothetical situation presented by the Catalyst.

You can find the basis against a singularity in the new thread I created about ethics.

This is irrationality at it's best.

First there's absolutely nothing wrong about Synthesis save for your inherent dislike and rationalization of the entire thing. 

Second, the majority of choices (if not ALL OF THEM) are done without majoritarian (sp) consent, they are political and military decisions done by Shepard, a single soldier with a unique view on each situation, nobody was thinking about how you "have no right" when people killed the council, released the rachni queen, destroyed Maleon's data or cured the genophage, Synthesis is no different than any of the former in that respect.

The problem is that it's forced and it's applied in a way that someone elseis left in control of everything.
 Let people choose to do this, not force something unneeded on them say it's better to do this.
I don't need to have any technology in my body...Why is it forced on me?

You are shepard, and you DO have technology in your body. Throughout the game you also CHOSE to do upgrades to those implants. Your argument there is invalid.

[Taboo]

feliciano2040 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I would never force it on people against their will. They have a right to choose.

As awful as it sounds I feel a great number of people would rather choose Destroy and sacrifice thousands against their rather than change the entirety of organic life against their will based upon a hypothetical situation presented by the Catalyst.

You can find the basis against a singularity in the new thread I created about ethics.

This is irrationality at it's best.

First there's absolutely nothing wrong about Synthesis save for your inherent dislike and rationalization of the entire thing. 

Second, the majority of choices (if not ALL OF THEM) are done without majoritarian (sp) consent, they are political and military decisions done by Shepard, a single soldier with a unique view on each situation, nobody was thinking about how you "have no right" when people killed the council, released the rachni queen, destroyed Maleon's data or cured the genophage, Synthesis is no different than any of the former in that respect.

The word you're looking for is authoritarian when you talk about the endings.

Majority in the sense of the endings is far different than Maelon's data or the council.

Synthesis effects all organic and Synthetic life in the galaxy. That is far, FAR more beings than in any other situation in any game I've ever played. That's billions of beings. Billions.

That is far different from isolated species being destroyed or cured as awful as that sounds.

None of the choices are ethical, they all come down to a matter of taste.

[ScotGaymer]

Malditor wrote...

Racism is based on difference of appearance, not dna level.

You need to learn what racism means.

[dreman9999]

Malditor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Who else knowsabout want you did at the end? Who else has acsess to the crucible at the end? If you ran off that edge or grabed the power lines, that just leavesthe star kid. My pointis after doing all the work...You gave the star kid the key and told him"Do what ever you want."

The StarChild itself admits it can't affect the possibilities created by the Crucible. There is no basis to claim it has acess to the result other than irrational fear.
And the Citadel is destroyed in the Synthesis ending. Why do you think StarChild would have survived?

And thr entire proble is that you thing your cooperationing with them. What type of logicis that?

An advanced one.
Are we really so primitive we can't accept any solution to the Reaper threat that doesn't involve "Let's destroy them all!"?

1. What he says is he can't make the choice. He never says he can't effect them. No one else is let to apply you choice but him so.....He would be the one to dictate how it's applied.
2. No it's not. You not understanding that we don't need the reapers salution. This is force evolution, one that is unneeded. No one will die if this form of evolution is not applied.That the entire thing you were fighting in ME..Forced evolution.

No one will die? Really? I suppose if you don't consider synthetics alive then you can make that statement. And the entire thing we were fighting was EXTINCTION.

Not what I mean. I'm say not being fused with tech won't lead to deaths  to the people with out it. And The geth and EDI already said they rether die then be brain washed, which is what Synthesis will do.

[dreman9999]

Malditor wrote...

Racism is based on difference of appearance, not dna level.

I thing youneed to take a look at what's going on in africa right now.

[Malditor]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Racism is based on difference of appearance, not dna level.

You need to learn what racism means.

Enlighten me then, because throughout history racism is based on people being different, and that difference is their appearance.

Also, synthesis doesn't give everyone the same dna, it adds to their dna.

[Malditor]

dreman9999 wrote...

Malditor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Who else knowsabout want you did at the end? Who else has acsess to the crucible at the end? If you ran off that edge or grabed the power lines, that just leavesthe star kid. My pointis after doing all the work...You gave the star kid the key and told him"Do what ever you want."

The StarChild itself admits it can't affect the possibilities created by the Crucible. There is no basis to claim it has acess to the result other than irrational fear.
And the Citadel is destroyed in the Synthesis ending. Why do you think StarChild would have survived?

And thr entire proble is that you thing your cooperationing with them. What type of logicis that?

An advanced one.
Are we really so primitive we can't accept any solution to the Reaper threat that doesn't involve "Let's destroy them all!"?

1. What he says is he can't make the choice. He never says he can't effect them. No one else is let to apply you choice but him so.....He would be the one to dictate how it's applied.
2. No it's not. You not understanding that we don't need the reapers salution. This is force evolution, one that is unneeded. No one will die if this form of evolution is not applied.That the entire thing you were fighting in ME..Forced evolution.

No one will die? Really? I suppose if you don't consider synthetics alive then you can make that statement. And the entire thing we were fighting was EXTINCTION.

Not what I mean. I'm say not being fused with tech won't lead to deaths  to the people with out it. And The geth and EDI already said they rether die then be brain washed, which is what Synthesis will do.

Where is it stated or implied that synthesis = brainwash?

[feliciano2040]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Don't be daft.

Racism doesn't just focus on the superficial.

Synthesis homogenises ALL DNA at a molecular level into the "same" thing.

It says that genetic difference, and diversity - is wrong. So yes it IS racist.

You are focussing on superificial appearances. Not on what makes you you.

Humans are still humans, turians are still turians, salarians are still salarians, quarians are still quarians, geth are still geth, EDI is still herself.

How is that against diversity ?

[MisterJB]

FitScotGaymer wrote...
Don't be daft.

Racism doesn't just focus on the superficial.

Synthesis homogenises ALL DNA at a molecular level into the "same" thing.

It says that genetic difference, and diversity - is wrong. So yes it IS racist.

You are focussing on superificial appearances. Not on what makes you you.

That is a baseless extrapolation. The different species still retain their defining characteristics, clearly, we have not been converted into the same thing. And, of course, no one believes removing diversity would end wars in the first place. Interspecies conflict exists.

I prefer the interpretation that Synthesis upgrades organics to a level where we can compete with synthetic life. As such, rather than claiming diversity breeds wars, the Catalyst simply believe synthetics have the ability to advanced much faster than organics and any sufficiently advanced species will not take into consideration the well being of lesser species when planning their advancement. We can see this on how humans behave on Earth.

So, Synthesis upgrades organics and blurrs the difference between organic and synthetics to the point where killing someone on those terms would be ridiculous while still allowing for the different species to retain their defining characteristics. Humans are still the most adaptable species, krogan are still temperemental, etc.
Or, at least, that is what I would like to see it do in the EC.

[dreman9999]

Malditor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Malditor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Who else knowsabout want you did at the end? Who else has acsess to the crucible at the end? If you ran off that edge or grabed the power lines, that just leavesthe star kid. My pointis after doing all the work...You gave the star kid the key and told him"Do what ever you want."

The StarChild itself admits it can't affect the possibilities created by the Crucible. There is no basis to claim it has acess to the result other than irrational fear.
And the Citadel is destroyed in the Synthesis ending. Why do you think StarChild would have survived?

And thr entire proble is that you thing your cooperationing with them. What type of logicis that?

An advanced one.
Are we really so primitive we can't accept any solution to the Reaper threat that doesn't involve "Let's destroy them all!"?

1. What he says is he can't make the choice. He never says he can't effect them. No one else is let to apply you choice but him so.....He would be the one to dictate how it's applied.
2. No it's not. You not understanding that we don't need the reapers salution. This is force evolution, one that is unneeded. No one will die if this form of evolution is not applied.That the entire thing you were fighting in ME..Forced evolution.

No one will die? Really? I suppose if you don't consider synthetics alive then you can make that statement. And the entire thing we were fighting was EXTINCTION.

Not what I mean. I'm say not being fused with tech won't lead to deaths  to the people with out it. And The geth and EDI already said they rether die then be brain washed, which is what Synthesis will do.

Where is it stated or implied that synthesis = brainwash?

When did you miss the fact that reapers can control people via implants and that Synthesis is just a mass implanting process...And the star child is left in charge of it?

[dreman9999]

MisterJB wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...
Don't be daft.

Racism doesn't just focus on the superficial.

Synthesis homogenises ALL DNA at a molecular level into the "same" thing.

It says that genetic difference, and diversity - is wrong. So yes it IS racist.

You are focussing on superificial appearances. Not on what makes you you.

That is a baseless extrapolation. The different species still retain their defining characteristics, clearly, we have not been converted into the same thing. And, of course, no one believes removing diversity would end wars in the first place. Interspecies conflict exists.

I prefer the interpretation that Synthesis upgrades organics to a level where we can compete with synthetic life. As such, rather than claiming diversity breeds wars, the Catalyst simply believe synthetics have the ability to advanced much faster than organics and any sufficiently advanced species will not take into consideration the well being of lesser species when planning their advancement. We can see this on how humans behave on Earth.

So, Synthesis upgrades organics and blurrs the difference between organic and synthetics to the point where killing someone on those terms would be ridiculous while still allowing for the different species to retain their defining characteristics. Humans are still the most adaptable species, krogan are still temperemental, etc.
Or, at least, that is what I would like to see it do in the EC.

1. You missing the fact that both organics and syntheticare techo organic in fused. 

2. It doesn't solve the problem of more sysnthetic being made that can up rise.

3. You giving theStar child access to the cruscible to us it as he sees fit after you make your choice.

[dreman9999]

feliciano2040 wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Don't be daft.

Racism doesn't just focus on the superficial.

Synthesis homogenises ALL DNA at a molecular level into the "same" thing.

It says that genetic difference, and diversity - is wrong. So yes it IS racist.

You are focussing on superificial appearances. Not on what makes you you.

Humans are still humans, turians are still turians, salarians are still salarians, quarians are still quarians, geth are still geth, EDI is still herself.

How is that against diversity ?

Their dna are all the same.

[dreman9999]

Malditor wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Racism is based on difference of appearance, not dna level.

You need to learn what racism means.

Enlighten me then, because throughout history racism is based on people being different, and that difference is their appearance.

Also, synthesis doesn't give everyone the same dna, it adds to their dna.

Take a look of what is going on in africanow.Mass genocide ofpeople because they belong to a different tribe and they all look the same?
The same thing can be said about Japan and Korea.

[Malditor]

dreman9999 wrote...

When did you miss the fact that reapers can control people via implants and that Synthesis is just a mass implanting process...And the star child is left in charge of it?

If only having implants allows reapers to control you then it could have forced whatever decision it wanted. To that end, it could have forced any being that had implants to fight for the reapers. However that is simply not the case. You assume of things that you don't really know, because nobody does at this point. Maybe the EC will explain further the consequences and repercussions of each choice. Until then, what you think is no more valid than what anyone else thinks when it comes to which ending chosen is correct. I still maintain that no ending is more correct than any other. Each person's choice is correct for them when they made it. If they chose to change their mind, that's their right as it is THEIR CHOICE.

[Taboo]

feliciano2040 wrote...

Humans are still humans, turians are still turians, salarians are still salarians, quarians are still quarians, geth are still geth, EDI is still herself.

How is that against diversity ?

You cannot change DNA in said capacity without causing changes to the organism.

Spiderman is an impossibility. You cannot take that amount of mutation and remain the same.

It simply works that way.

This is science.

[MisterJB]

dreman9999 wrote...
Their dna are all the same.

If the DNA was all the same, we would all look the same.
Since the different species still look different from each other, we can conclude Synthesis did not modify the already existing DNA, it just added synthetic characteristics to it.