13 réponses à ce sujet

[Pedrak]

One of the most disappointing features of DA2 was, needless to say, combat against waves and waves of trash mobs. DAO was better in this regard (at least enemies didn't rain from the sky), but it wasn't exactly stellar, either.

Now, I personally felt DA2's combat was some kind of mediocre hybrid between action combat and "tactical" combat - like mixing arm wrestling and chess, it didn't work. However, whether for DA3  they go full action (like they did in ME3, and it worked) or they go back to a more strategy-based combat (like BG), I say this:

Combat shouldn't be boring filler.

I'd rather have less fights, but longer, more memorable and elaborate. But they shoudn't turn into QTE-fests either, where I'm expected to do certain specific actions to win - no STAGED BOSS FIGHTS. Players should be able to react creatively, be given more options, whether the combat is action-based or tactical. There should be more enemy variety. Physics should allow to push enemies from cliffs or into the fire. LET MY CHARACTERS JUMP. Let them "use" the scenery, blocking doors to stop enemies until they bash in, throwing stuff at them, etc.

I don't need to be fighting something every minute; I'd rather have unique and memorable combat encounters.

Better if the game is a bit shorter, but it makes me remember that particularly spectacular fight under a waterfall, or the time when my warrior and I took care of the big beast until the mage cast a spell which threw it from the edge of the cliff.

Instead of endless click-fests, attack-spamming in corridors against hordes of identical enemies.

Modifié par Pedrak, 15 septembre 2012 - 09:26 .

[TEWR]

Pedrak wrote...

like mixing arm wrestling and chess, it didn't work

This line made the entire thread already awesome.

I will now go out of my way to try arm wrestling and chess at the same time.

[TEWR]

The combat in DA definitely needs some serious tweaking/refining. The HP issue and the enemy skills/tactics issue needs to be addressed first, IMO.

I'm glad that enemies have more health then in Origins, but I'm not a fan of the incredible disparity between the party's health and the enemies'. Especially in light of Nightmare's potential to one-shot your entire party, thus seeming like -- IMO -- a cheap attempt to make things "tactical".

To that end, I will leave my blog post on my opinions on what should be done for the combat here: Here ya go

At first it just deals with how realistic the animations are, but eventually it goes into detail about combat itself and ideas -- albeit rough ones -- on what could be done.

The comments at the bottom also pertain to what could be done.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 18 mai 2012 - 04:28 .

[eroeru]

Good grief. An awesome analogy (about chess/armwrestling)!

[Aklis]

I'd love to see a game that goes more in the direction of the Witcher 2, not in the action-y, twitching dodgy way, but in the sense of every enemy actually being a threat if you're not clever enough. I remember the first time I played DA:O on normal and how everything owned me, but that disappeared as soon as I learned the game.

I want that feeling again though; I don't want to be hopelessly outmatched, nor do I want to tear through everything like butter, but I want to be forced to use my entire party AND the surroundings effectively.

[Crowlover]

I'm one of the few people who actually found DA2's combat an improvement over the original. Not to say that I found it terribly innovative or anything, but at least it looked pretty and was usually quick. Nearly every non-boss fight in DAO felt like a chore to me, and I constantly found myself groaning 'Here we go again' whenever the battle music started playing.

Still I agree with the main point Pedrak makes, quality is better than quantity. I was totally annoyed with the waves of enemies spring up from nowhere in DA2 as well.

Also I agree with Aklis about adopting combat system like Witcher 2, but for me that includes the "action-y, twitching dodgy way".

Modifié par Crowlover, 18 mai 2012 - 10:27 .

[Apathy1989]

Aklis wrote...

I'd love to see a game that goes more in the direction of the Witcher 2, not in the action-y, twitching dodgy way, but in the sense of every enemy actually being a threat if you're not clever enough. I remember the first time I played DA:O on normal and how everything owned me, but that disappeared as soon as I learned the game.

I want that feeling again though; I don't want to be hopelessly outmatched, nor do I want to tear through everything like butter, but I want to be forced to use my entire party AND the surroundings effectively.

TW2 has completely different controls though. I do agree though that there needs to be specific understanding required to face each enemy - besides 'what element to use'. Honestly I hated elemental immunity unless it made sense (fire against fire demons).

I would like to see more teamworking from enemies, less waves, less HP buffers. Having enemies use complex tactics is a good way to teach the player about this tactic, and then they must figure out how to combat it. Why did DA2 have no healing mages? Is my memory bad? All the mages seemed to only have 1 ability each.

[Pedrak]

My combat tips for DA3:

1) Let use the surroundings (block doors, push enemies from heights/into fire, etc.)
2) Let us approach enemies in different ways (etc. allow to take them by surprise, sneak on them, ambush them as they pass, even avoid them) - not just: "You enter the room, cutscene, fight!"
3) Don't reset party position after a combat-triggering dialogue!!!
4) More enemy variety, with different tactics for different creatures
5) Go either full action (a complex action combat with parry, stamina, flanking, shields, momentum...) or full tactical (BG2- style, with fights feeling a bit like a game of chess, especially when magic is involved).
6) I understand perma-death for companions is not coming back, but there should be more punishment when someone goes down. Ex. big XP penalty.

Modifié par Pedrak, 19 mai 2012 - 11:50 .

[HanErlik]

For taking quality over quantity in combat issue, you must make a good "RPG", otherwise the game would be awfully short. In Planescape Torment, there are fewer combat encounters than other RPGs but it is a wonderfuly detailed game and has lots of well written dialogue lines. You can spends hours by talking with your companions or other npcs, reading books etc. Some other RPGs (Arcanum, VtM:Bloodlines etc.) offers different ways for different character builds to complete a quest. Dragon Age 2 offers nearly nothing except combat. All you can do is to find the related person and pick the blue or red line in non combat quests. You don't even need to listen him or her. Without waves of thrash mobs, you can complete Dragon Age 2 in half of its actual gameplay time.

[caradoc2000]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I will now go out of my way to try arm wrestling and chess at the same time.

Well, there already is tresling (tetris and arm wrestling), so you can improve on the idea.

[mp911]

no more waves of the same enemies
bring back magic combos, trap for theives
keep the speed of dragon age, playing theives, bowman and soldier was so much better in da2
let the land have an effect on the fight,: the highter an archer is the more damage he delivers....
friendly fire was too much in da2, many of the warrior skills were unuseable because of friendly damage, a huge spell hurting everyone is ok, friendly damage was really well handle in dao

[Sajji]

Combat for Dragon Age 3:

A blend of DAO and Dark Souls.

For the win.

[BadJustice]

Yea I kinda agree. I really hated the hour long dungeons and frickin Dwarf thaigs in DA:O because they were so boring and long.
I prefer short bursts of combat, mostly because the combat system in DA:O dragged on. I really want BioWare to focus more on character development then the combat tbh.
Or atleast somehow make it like Mass Effect where the combat is actually pretty cool and engaging.