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[Oldbones2]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Lance:

"I just did another session with them...They were saying there's a little bit of a problem with the abruptness of the ending," Hendriksen said. "So we did a whole series of things to add to the end of the game, to live up to the quality they've been doing."

I'll state again.

Bioware knows what the problem is.

But the aren't fixing it.

At this point, whatever reason they have for choosing this particular ending is irrelevant.  A planned sequel, the film series, maybe its just cheaper, who knows, it doesn't matter.

Bioware has lost longtime customers over this.  

EA has had they brand severely tarnished over this.

Mass Effect as a series may no longer have a future because of this.


Yet, even though they have every single business based reason in the world to fix this, they just don't seem to get it through their heads.

And I really can't fathom why.

I'll admit that some of their behavior contradicts what should be done but this has also never happened to a video game before. It's unprecedented.

Did you ever think that it can be fixed? That you've already decided to be unhappy? The game will never be perfect again but the best the Extended Cut can do is make it shine again. It can remove the grease from pan and allow it to be clear again. There will always be residue left over but it won't be as visible. In time, when people are happy and pleased emotionally, they will forget intellectual faults. It's no different from a marriage. You are aware of the faults but you love them anyway. That's how the brain works. Nothing is perfect but it can be a good experience.

Just wait and see what happens.

To fix the ending within the game?  

Maybe not.  The scale would be .... quite large and the payoff questionable at best.

However, there was nothing stopping Bioware personel from saying, months ago,
__

We hear you, the ending doesn't match the hype from the pre release.  We apologize for that.  We get excited about our games too, and sometimes that makes us loss perspective and focus.  

The game can't be changed in the manner that many of our fans want, and we here at Bioware are proud of the work we have done regardless.  Perhaps in the coming months, if the fans want it, we can develop and release additional content for the ending based on fan feedback.  This won't change the ending, and we know that's a dealbreaker for some, but its the best we can offer right now.

We want to make this up to you.  We want to win back your trust.  Please, give us a chance to do so. 
___

And then they open a dialogue, maybe release some free content,  generally try and hear our point of view, even if they don't agree with it, and together we move forward.


That would have fixed the fanbase, or at least started the effort.  And it would have released exactly as much free content as what we get now.  But Bioware couldn't swallow their pride and do that.  

So what do we get?  A slap in the face and the EC DLC.  A project that isn't designed to offer fans what they asked for.  Or deliver on what Bioware promised, no no.  EC is intended for one thing and one thing only, to sell more DLC.

How can something that isn't aimed at fixing a problem OR developed as a direct result of that problem going to do anything other than fail?

[mcgreggers99]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I will state again.

You can make the endings less pessimistic with more footage.

This isn't something I should have to tell you.

Understand that five minutes of footage isn't going to make anything worse.

You have no idea what they're doing.

This is so true...

Its AMAZING what a little bit of editing will do to change the tone and flow of a scene. Even if they aren't creating a ton of new material, if the new stuff is mixed into the old ending correctly you could potentially come out if it experiencing something that "feels" completely different.

WIth that being said, I hope they are recording like gangbusters right now to get all kinds of new material into this thing.

They gotta keep the cow healthy to keep milking it ya know.

[Dont Kaidan Me]

eddieoctane wrote...
That was the problem. But you can't fall short of expectations, and ask for a retry and expect everything to be honky-dory afterwards. 1 slight can't be undone with one good act. BioWare has implied that the MP was always going to be free, and MP wasn't the problem to begin with, so nothing there can be considered an attempt and doing right by the fans. Once you pissed on everyone, simply adding closure won't fix the problem. Now we need much more for our trust in BioWare to be restored. It might sound petty, but it's a survival mechanism. Once bitten, twice shy.

Not to mention that charging extra for a day one DLC that should have been part of the main game, cannot be taken back or redone.

[Taboo]

I'm going to make a thread about this on Monday.

It's time to.........tear down the wall again.

I just can't stress enough how important this is to you guys.

I can only use text.

Damn.

[Oldbones2]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I will state again.

You can make the endings less pessimistic with more footage.

This isn't something I should have to tell you.

Understand that five minutes of footage isn't going to make anything worse.

You have no idea what they're doing.

First of all, while additional footage can shift the tone slightly or even significantly (say, preserving the relays).  It can't take the tone from one end of the spectrum (the darkest blackest pits of hell, where ME 3's ending has been exiled to) to the complete other end (super bright and happy, like in the endings to G rated films with singing animals)

And since we have word that the endings are to be preserved from Bioware itself, not some VA who may or may not know ANYTHING about the final product, I would assume that the tone doesn't shift all that much.

You can also make the endings worse with more footage.  As much as I hate destroy for killing the geth AND Shepard in a pointless and stupid manner.  At least their deaths had a poignant certainty to them.  And at least when the relays blew after and killed lots of people, it didn't add to the lore breaking from the previous scenes.  It was bitter as all hell, but it was also pure.

But by showing Hackett alive we take away that purity, and ruin the tragedy of the moment with yet more bizarre explanations of why the relay explosion didn't fry him.

It's like in the new Star Wars, in the orginal cut, Han shoots Greedo first.  It was due to an editing error that George Lucas made and he always wanted to correct.  However the idea that Han starts as an anti-hero, who would kill a man without being in mortal danger is really integral to his character.  

And releasing cut after cut trying to appease everyone didn't win GL any friends.

[Taboo]

Yes, you can.

Yes, you can.

I've seen it and done it myself.

Star Wars has nothing to do with it. Star Wars is considered to be petty by many people where I come from. Do not use Star Wars as an example.

I will make a brand new thread on Monday explaining this in greater detail. I can't stress enough how much of an improvement it could be.

I have never seen an Extended Cut make a film worse and I have no reason to believe that this one will be either. Quite a few things that I predicted weeks ago have come true. People gave a lot of **** for it. I received terrible messages for it and people taunted me for it. I don't have to say anything now because the facts speak for themselves.

This is my job. I do it for a living. It pays my bills. I would be incredibly foolish to talk about things like this without any prior knowledge.

[CherokeeInferno]

Has Conrad Verner been confirmed for EC?

[liggy002]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Deemz wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Lance:

"I just did another session with them...They were saying there's a little bit of a problem with the abruptness of the ending," Hendriksen said. "So we did a whole series of things to add to the end of the game, to live up to the quality they've been doing."

I'll state again.

Bioware knows what the problem is.

What have they said that makes you think that? I know they know there is a problem but I have not seen anything that suggests they recognize what those issues are. 

Business experience. They would be unwise to simply roll out something they wanted in the Extended Cut.

Were I come from they haul the film away and re-cut it to better suit the audience and that almost always means something that will lessen the depression factor.

The Extended Cut was not planned and the outcry is the result of that.

Do you really think they would bring in Tricia Helfer and Lance Henrickson just to **** with you? Do you believe that they aren't hurt in some capacity by this? That sixty thousand people didn't faze them? They are human beings with thoughts and feelings. You don't have to like them but you must respect them as human beings.

Don't think for one minute that Mr. Hudson and Mr. Walters don't know what the problem is.

If they really want to listen to the fans, they'll give us a Harbinger boss fight and conversation.  I don't know if they're doing this but I'm pretty sure that if they don't then they just ignored a large number of fans who pushed for this on the Bioware forums.  This news makes me neither happy nor sad.  I am just waiting for its release to pass judgement, whenever that release may be:  June, July, or August

[soulprovider]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...

The hell does he mean by "loses" I seem to recall my popup saying my Shepard became a Legend, now buy more DLC.


Now if he means that I lost 30 hrs of my life on ME3, then yea, I did lose.

Henrickson has been working for longer than some of the Bioware employees lives. He knows his ****.

Plus he was Bishop in Aliens.

He is already a legend.

speaking of which, I so wish that he is in prometheus, even a cameo would solidify the weyland corp......even though its not a prequel 

[Landon7001]

Oldbones2 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I will state again.

You can make the endings less pessimistic with more footage.

This isn't something I should have to tell you.

Understand that five minutes of footage isn't going to make anything worse.

You have no idea what they're doing.

First of all, while additional footage can shift the tone slightly or even significantly (say, preserving the relays).  It can't take the tone from one end of the spectrum (the darkest blackest pits of hell, where ME 3's ending has been exiled to) to the complete other end (super bright and happy, like in the endings to G rated films with singing animals)

And since we have word that the endings are to be preserved from Bioware itself, not some VA who may or may not know ANYTHING about the final product, I would assume that the tone doesn't shift all that much.

You can also make the endings worse with more footage.  As much as I hate destroy for killing the geth AND Shepard in a pointless and stupid manner.  At least their deaths had a poignant certainty to them.  And at least when the relays blew after and killed lots of people, it didn't add to the lore breaking from the previous scenes.  It was bitter as all hell, but it was also pure.

But by showing Hackett alive we take away that purity, and ruin the tragedy of the moment with yet more bizarre explanations of why the relay explosion didn't fry him.

It's like in the new Star Wars, in the orginal cut, Han shoots Greedo first.  It was due to an editing error that George Lucas made and he always wanted to correct.  However the idea that Han starts as an anti-hero, who would kill a man without being in mortal danger is really integral to his character.  

And releasing cut after cut trying to appease everyone didn't win GL any friends.

concerning star wars, and i hate to do this because i hate star wars due to the fact im a huge star trek fan and hate comparisons made when trek is vastly superior {in quality and inarguably by eons in quantity} but....

star wars had some very dark moments and yet it found its way to a natural happy ending, it it was all about war and an ever looming, immenent, immense threat....so why not me 3?  not to say they should model mass effect after anything but just making a point {besides the ending mass effect is vastly superior to star wars, but i know star wars is well liked}

[christrek1982]

Landon7001 wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I will state again.

You can make the endings less pessimistic with more footage.

This isn't something I should have to tell you.

Understand that five minutes of footage isn't going to make anything worse.

You have no idea what they're doing.

First of all, while additional footage can shift the tone slightly or even significantly (say, preserving the relays).  It can't take the tone from one end of the spectrum (the darkest blackest pits of hell, where ME 3's ending has been exiled to) to the complete other end (super bright and happy, like in the endings to G rated films with singing animals)

And since we have word that the endings are to be preserved from Bioware itself, not some VA who may or may not know ANYTHING about the final product, I would assume that the tone doesn't shift all that much.

You can also make the endings worse with more footage.  As much as I hate destroy for killing the geth AND Shepard in a pointless and stupid manner.  At least their deaths had a poignant certainty to them.  And at least when the relays blew after and killed lots of people, it didn't add to the lore breaking from the previous scenes.  It was bitter as all hell, but it was also pure.

But by showing Hackett alive we take away that purity, and ruin the tragedy of the moment with yet more bizarre explanations of why the relay explosion didn't fry him.

It's like in the new Star Wars, in the orginal cut, Han shoots Greedo first.  It was due to an editing error that George Lucas made and he always wanted to correct.  However the idea that Han starts as an anti-hero, who would kill a man without being in mortal danger is really integral to his character.  

And releasing cut after cut trying to appease everyone didn't win GL any friends.

concerning star wars, and i hate to do this because i hate star wars due to the fact im a huge star trek fan and hate comparisons made when trek is vastly superior {in quality and inarguably by eons in quantity} but....

star wars had some very dark moments and yet it found its way to a natural happy ending, it it was all about war and an ever looming, immenent, immense threat....so why not me 3?  not to say they should model mass effect after anything but just making a point {besides the ending mass effect is vastly superior to star wars, but i know star wars is well liked}

wow your brave say trek is way better than wars I agree by the way but I would not have the quad to admit it so openley +1 to you mate

[Landon7001]

christrek1982 wrote...

Landon7001 wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I will state again.

You can make the endings less pessimistic with more footage.

This isn't something I should have to tell you.

Understand that five minutes of footage isn't going to make anything worse.

You have no idea what they're doing.

First of all, while additional footage can shift the tone slightly or even significantly (say, preserving the relays).  It can't take the tone from one end of the spectrum (the darkest blackest pits of hell, where ME 3's ending has been exiled to) to the complete other end (super bright and happy, like in the endings to G rated films with singing animals)

And since we have word that the endings are to be preserved from Bioware itself, not some VA who may or may not know ANYTHING about the final product, I would assume that the tone doesn't shift all that much.

You can also make the endings worse with more footage.  As much as I hate destroy for killing the geth AND Shepard in a pointless and stupid manner.  At least their deaths had a poignant certainty to them.  And at least when the relays blew after and killed lots of people, it didn't add to the lore breaking from the previous scenes.  It was bitter as all hell, but it was also pure.

But by showing Hackett alive we take away that purity, and ruin the tragedy of the moment with yet more bizarre explanations of why the relay explosion didn't fry him.

It's like in the new Star Wars, in the orginal cut, Han shoots Greedo first.  It was due to an editing error that George Lucas made and he always wanted to correct.  However the idea that Han starts as an anti-hero, who would kill a man without being in mortal danger is really integral to his character.  

And releasing cut after cut trying to appease everyone didn't win GL any friends.

concerning star wars, and i hate to do this because i hate star wars due to the fact im a huge star trek fan and hate comparisons made when trek is vastly superior {in quality and inarguably by eons in quantity} but....

star wars had some very dark moments and yet it found its way to a natural happy ending, it it was all about war and an ever looming, immenent, immense threat....so why not me 3?  not to say they should model mass effect after anything but just making a point {besides the ending mass effect is vastly superior to star wars, but i know star wars is well liked}

wow your brave say trek is way better than wars I agree by the way but I would not have the quad to admit it so openley +1 to you mate

Im sorry how am I brave to say that?? look dont make me get into this cuz i will go off and this is a mass effect forum.....trek is just as popular as star wars worldwide and has been around way longer....and its 5 series and 12 movies connected in this huge universe wich shares our same history and often refernces it, its in our world  not some far far away fantasy magic force bs.... full of awesome inventions BASED IN SCIENCE AND REAL SCIENTIFIC THEORY and characters

[Oldbones2]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yes, you can.

Yes, you can.

I've seen it and done it myself.

Star Wars has nothing to do with it. Star Wars is considered to be petty by many people where I come from. Do not use Star Wars as an example.

I will make a brand new thread on Monday explaining this in greater detail. I can't stress enough how much of an improvement it could be.

I have never seen an Extended Cut make a film worse and I have no reason to believe that this one will be either. Quite a few things that I predicted weeks ago have come true. People gave a lot of **** for it. I received terrible messages for it and people taunted me for it. I don't have to say anything now because the facts speak for themselves.

This is my job. I do it for a living. It pays my bills. I would be incredibly foolish to talk about things like this without any prior knowledge.

Well that certainly proved .... something.

Look you can say yes it can as many times as you like and if you don't provide reasons or examples, i'm not inclined to believe you.

I don't really care what the people you work with think of Star Wars or any other movie.

Chances are those people have never made anything so well reviewed or so profitable in their lives.

 I do care a little bit what you think however, which you didn't mention.



As for what you do for a living, I have no way of knowing whether your telling the truth or what your position is at all, other than works in movies, maybe.

Now as for extened cuts, I assume that includes director's cuts?

If so. I present the following films for your consideration.

Donnie Darko, Apocalypse Now, Return of the King, Last of the Mohicans, The French Connection and  Blade Runner,

[CINCTuchanka]

"The difference between the almost right word & the right word is really a large matter--it's the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning." - Samuel Clemens in a letter written 10/15/1888.

This is true for the EC and any narrative and/or literary work. A single sequence/word/stanza can completely alter the meaning of a story.

People need to quit being so pessimistic, it's bad for your health.

[bahamutomega]

Taboo-XX wrote...

bFootball wrote...

Lance Henriksen's quote would imply the EC was not planned after all.

Of course it wasn't. We were intended to see the endings as they were right now.

no, the endings were already done, they just finally woke up and realized that they can't make money off of the EC because the rest of the launch was messed up.

[ztonkin]

Well it was my fear that they were going uber-cheap on this, and weren't bringing in much in the way of the voice talent. Good to know they even got a busy-ish guy like Henrikson on board

[Andsmth85]

I hope they do something for those who want our shepard to live and not only when you choose destroy if ME is really what it is advertised to be then i demand that im allowed to have my shepard survive all the endings , Shepard over everyone else in the ME universe for me .

[garrusfan1]

honestly I know I am probably wrong but I think they are going to change the ending because they are bringing in so many voice actors and taking a while to make it I know it is hopefull thinking but maybe ea said were gonna lose money get the fans back but when they said clarify it I am thinking that the people who control money said yeah artistic integrity takes 2nd place to money not that I am complaing I hated the endings and also I have a hard time believing anything they say so it could be changed unlikely but can hope

[dirtdiver32318]

So jas a release date been confirmed or rumored for the EC DLC?

[Esbatty]

Bonerrific

[Gruntburner]

Esbatty wrote...

Bonerrific

*Takes drink*

[Reth Shepherd]

Continuing in the Star Wars theme; consider Jar Jar Binks. Horrible character, and widely hated by fans who see him as the personification of everything wrong with the new movies. Would it be possible to rewrite him as a better character? Yes. Would the fans accept it? F* no! Were George Lucas ever to try and fix Phantom Menace (yeah yeah, I know, just go with it), he would be wise to leave Jar Jar on the cutting room floor. NOT because the character is unfix-able, but because keeping him will bring up all of the emotional baggage the fans have been carrying around, and badly hurt the revised film's chances of acceptance. By the same token, CAN Bioware fix Catalyst/RGB? I personally don't see how, but I assume that there is a way. Will fans accept it? At this point, almost certainly not. Emotional fan baggage. Bioware would be smart to bite the bullet and either do a *snip* or add a few alternate endings in.

[Gruntburner]

If you think think that the EC can only make ending better, then you are an optimist and I welcome you to my table. If you are going to wait and see, you are a realist and I respect your caution and hope it turns out good for you. If you already know that EC is going to fail and nothing can convince you otherwise, you are a cynic and should leave because demanding a complete rewrite is insane and provides nothing constructive.

[TheNexus]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

"Raphael Sbarge"

Thank god, that means we'll get dialog from all the current (i.e. ME3) squadmembers, mark my words.

I keep having this image pop up in my head where Kaidan is the only squadmate that talks in the EC even if you killed him on Virmire lol. So yeah here's the EC, inside scoop:

Shepard: Kaidan?
Kaidan: Yeah?
Shepard: I thought you died on Virmire...?
Kaidain: ....oh yeah. That. Flesh wound, really.
Shepard: Oh...ok....so.....
Kaidan: I'm the Catalyst.
Shepard: What? How is....
Kaidan: Listen...all the other voice actors were busy and Law & Order never called me back for any more episodes...so...I'm the Catalyst.
Shepard: ...how does that make any...
Kaidan: Do you want star child to be the Catalyst again?
Shepard: NO. NO PLEASE NO.
Kaidan: Ok.
Shepard: So...what do we do now?
Kaidan: "We" don't do anything. "You" pay EA 14.99 for some new colo... endings.
Shepard: I thought the EC was free...?
Kaidan: Haven't I been talking to you this whole time? You just found out that I not only survived Virmire, but that I am also the Catalyst. Pro bono. And people say EA isn't generous.

*SHEPARD IS STILL A LEGEND. BUY MORE MULTIPLAYER PACKS AND ARIA DLC.*

Modifié par TheNexus, 19 mai 2012 - 06:05 .

[antony1197]

Sublyminal wrote...

Theodoro wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Of course it is. Why wouldn't they?

Because I was under the impression that Shepard was dead in all three endings.

Shepard lives in destroy if you have high enough EMS.

Thats not shepard "living" thats some stupid easter egg to where there not fully commited to him being dead OR alive.