138 réponses à ce sujet

[Jensonagain]

Wanna know the real reason there is pausing in the game?

When the crappy companion AI breaks, you have to pause and fix it. There is nothing strategic about that. No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat. That defeats the purpose of the battle in the first place.

Bioware still hasn't learned how to make intelligent companion AI that can follow your tactics without question.

Because the companion AI is still light years behind everyone else, they added "pausing" so you can fix the flaws in the companion AI.  When the AI breaks, you pause and fix it.

As a computer programmer I spent hours trying to understand the "in game tactics" window.  It's flawed.

When you first trigger mobs, they don't all trigger and this fools your companions into thinking there is only 1-2 enemies.  So if their tactics are set to kill "mages and archers first", guess what? Chances are these mobs are in the back so your companions won't know it.

DESPITE this, I still love the game because the story & voice acting is so good. And I like the fact that flanking matters in the game.  These two things make up for the horrible companion AI/tactics.

CHALLENGE: Start a new game right now and play all the way to the tower of ishal upper floor.  I guarantee there is no way you can make a tactics script that will actually target and kill mages first followed by killing archers.  It's broken... You're companions may do it sometimes like 30-50% of the time but the other times it will break.

Modifié par Jensonagain, 10 décembre 2009 - 03:39 .

[Rodro Lliv]

Jensonagain wrote...

No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat. That defeats the purpose of the battle in the first place.

As a Baldur's Gate fanatic, I cannot read further.

[Jensonagain]

Rodro Lliv wrote...

Jensonagain wrote...

No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat. That defeats the purpose of the battle in the first place.

As a Baldur's Gate fanatic, I cannot read further.

Man these guys have been doing this since baldurs gate, but they still can't get your companion AI to be smart? It's 2009.  I mean kudos to them for making such a great game still but man..

[LynxAQ]

Pause also exist for those players like myself who micro manage every aspect of every character, not just their main character.

I don't use tactics at all other than for activating certain sustainables at certain mana/stamina levels, because I do sometimes forget to do it.

But other than that I micro manage every active ability. If there was no pause, the game would be unplayable for me or I would be forced to use the tactics which as you mentioned, is plain bad and dumb.

Modifié par LynxAQ, 10 décembre 2009 - 01:21 .

[AshedMan]

Jensonagain wrote...
Man these guys have been doing this since baldurs gate, but they still can't get your companion AI to be smart? It's 2009.  I mean kudos to them for making such a great game still but man..

Learn to use tactics.

[Staylost]

I guess this is fodder for "the game wasn't hard enough" crowd?



I'm glad you still like the game, it just seems like you don't like games where you can pause and plan out your actions. The tactics are only supposed to be there for the easier fights.

[tanerb]

man pausing is the best thing in this game

[JasonPogo]

I love when people throw out a year if a game has a feature they don't like. The game has pausing? It is set in a midevil fantasy setting? What is this 1986!!!



No it is called keeping what works.

[Kaosgirl]

Jensonagain wrote...

Wanna know the real reason there is pausing in the game?

When the crappy companion AI breaks, you have to pause and fix it. There is nothing strategic about that. No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat. That defeats the purpose of the battle in the first place.

WTF?
The entire CRPG industry is inspired by the traditional tabletop RPGs, which were all turn-based.  The first CRPGs were all turn-based too.  Game pausing is, and has always been, intended to create a hybrid-feel between the original turn-based games and the real-time strategy that became popular afterwards.

That it also serves as a mitigating factor for imperfect companion AI is merely coincidental.  You've obviously got your correlation mixed up with your causation.

Modifié par Kaosgirl, 10 décembre 2009 - 01:28 .

[Dex1701]

Jensonagain wrote...

Wanna know the real reason there is pausing in the game?

When the crappy companion AI breaks, you have to pause and fix it. There is nothing strategic about that. No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat. That defeats the purpose of the battle in the first place.

Bioware still hasn't learned how to make intelligent companion AI that can follow your tactics without question.

Because the companion AI is still light years behind everyone else, they added "pausing" so you can fix the flaws in the companion AI.  When the AI breaks, you pause and fix it.

As a computer programmer I spent hours trying to understand the "in game tactics" window.  It's flawed.

When you first trigger mobs, they don't all trigger and this fools your companions into thinking there is only 1-2 enemies.  So if their tactics are set to kill "mages and archers first", guess what? Chances are these mobs are in the back so your companions won't know it.

DESPITE this, I still love the game because the story & voice acting is so good. And I like the fact that flanking matters in the game.  These two things make up for the horrible companion AI/tactics.

As a player of many, many RPG games since the early '80s, I have to wholeheartedly disagree.  Pause and play tactical combat is one of my favorite combat configurations for a party-based RPG.  The NPC tactics are just gravy to make it a little easier.  Also, as a senior software engineer (only mentioned because you did first ), I didn't find the tactics screen to be confusing.  What's confusing about IF...THEN...GOTO?  I've been doing that since programming in BASIC as a kid.

Modifié par Dex1701, 10 décembre 2009 - 01:28 .

[Titius.Vibius]

They keep on insisting, "I can do better developing a game because I'm a computer programmer." Way to go Captain Obvious! Create a mod that can modify tactics and AI, I dare you since you have spent hours analyzing it. You have until the end of the month, until then I will bump this thread to see your progress.

[Bibdy]

Because it allows you to stop and assess the battlefield and make decisions without having to be a twitch-gamer. Not to mention, stop and swivel the camera around your character while its in a sync-kill animation... but anyway, any disappointments on the part of the AI are going to be partly due to poorly managed Tactics setups. You need to use them, and use them wisely. You can only essentially control 1 character at a time and this is a PARTY-BASED game. This isn't Mass Effect where you only have to worry about your team's gear and stats, but let them do whatever they want in a fight. You have to use your entire party as a weapon, not just the one character you make.

[Bryy_Miller]

Jensonagain wrote...

Wanna know the real reason there is pausing in the game?

When the crappy companion AI breaks, you have to pause and fix it. There is nothing strategic about that. No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat. That defeats the purpose of the battle in the first place.

Bioware still hasn't learned how to make intelligent companion AI that can follow your tactics without question.

Because the companion AI is still light years behind everyone else, they added "pausing" so you can fix the flaws in the companion AI.  When the AI breaks, you pause and fix it.

As a computer programmer I spent hours trying to understand the "in game tactics" window.  It's flawed.

I see that somebody has a case of the "I'm a blah blah blah so I know what they are thinking".
I don't go "I'm a writer, so I know what Moby Dick's motivation is"

[Gliese]

The OP made me cry.

[II Relics II]

I have a question.

Have you ever tried to modify your tactics? If not then I suggest you do before you post troll-bait on this forum (I don't mean to sound mean or critical I am just saying that this is a perfect set-up for flame wars).

I have had no problems with the NPC AI, and the pause feature has much more use than "fixing" the supposedly broken AI... I use it to study how many enemies there are, form my strategy, decide who I want to attack first, assign my NPCs to certain enemies if I do not have enough room on my tactics menu, assign specific talents or spells as needed.

Those are only a few reasons I use the pause menu.

Modifié par II Relics II, 10 décembre 2009 - 01:36 .

[ClayMeow]

Jensonagain wrote...

Wanna know the real reason there is pausing in the game?

When the crappy companion AI breaks, you have to pause and fix it. There is nothing strategic about that. No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat. That defeats the purpose of the battle in the first place.

EPIC FAIL! by you

BTW, I'm a programmer too...as if that's supposed to mean something and make our opinions better?

[whtnyte-raernst]

Bioware stated that DA:O was a "reimagining" of old school 4 party Fantasy RPGs (Magic Candle, Bard's Tale, Dungeons & Dragons, etc)

These were turned based because you had to tell every member of the party what to do for each "round"

The developers designed it so you have the option of playing it that way, or controlling 1 character with no pausing, or anything in between. If pausing bothers you...turn it off!

[dirtyklingon]

i'm a brain surgeon and i say pausing is terribad!

[fanman72]

Modify your tactics. There. Problem solved. I used to have this problem with Zevran instead of concentrating on who else my party was attacking, would instead begin attacking the most inconvenient person around and charge headfirst getting himself killed

[soteria]

Jensonagain wrote...

Wanna know the real reason there is pausing in the game?

When the crappy companion AI breaks, you have to pause and fix it. There is nothing strategic about that. No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat. That defeats the purpose of the battle in the first place.

Bioware still hasn't learned how to make intelligent companion AI that can follow your tactics without question.

Because the companion AI is still light years behind everyone else, they added "pausing" so you can fix the flaws in the companion AI.  When the AI breaks, you pause and fix it.

As a computer programmer I spent hours trying to understand the "in game tactics" window.  It's flawed.

When you first trigger mobs, they don't all trigger and this fools your companions into thinking there is only 1-2 enemies.  So if their tactics are set to kill "mages and archers first", guess what? Chances are these mobs are in the back so your companions won't know it.

DESPITE this, I still love the game because the story & voice acting is so good. And I like the fact that flanking matters in the game.  These two things make up for the horrible companion AI/tactics.

I don't believe you.  The tactics are a simple series of IF > THEN statements.  If you were really a computer programmer, you would have no problem understanding it.  If you want to make a point, fine, but don't make stuff up to try to make yourself sound more qualified.

[Taleroth]

They see me trolling

they hatin'

[Sloth Of Doom]

soteria wrote...
I don't believe you.  The tactics are a simple series of IF > THEN statements.  If you were really a computer programmer, you would have no problem understanding it.  If you want to make a point, fine, but don't make stuff up to try to make yourself sound more qualified.

Pfft..he is obviously a computer programmer that can't figure out how to register his game OR properly set up the tactics screen. Don't be hatin.

[johngaltjr]

Jensonagain wrote...

Wanna know the real reason there is pausing in the game?

When the crappy companion AI breaks, you have to pause and fix it. There is nothing strategic about that. No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat. That defeats the purpose of the battle in the first place.

Bioware still hasn't learned how to make intelligent companion AI that can follow your tactics without question.

Because the companion AI is still light years behind everyone else, they added "pausing" so you can fix the flaws in the companion AI.  When the AI breaks, you pause and fix it.

As a computer programmer I spent hours trying to understand the "in game tactics" window.  It's flawed.

When you first trigger mobs, they don't all trigger and this fools your companions into thinking there is only 1-2 enemies.  So if their tactics are set to kill "mages and archers first", guess what? Chances are these mobs are in the back so your companions won't know it.

DESPITE this, I still love the game because the story & voice acting is so good. And I like the fact that flanking matters in the game.  These two things make up for the horrible companion AI/tactics.

Pausing is the single best thing about the game.

Modifié par johngaltjr, 10 décembre 2009 - 03:11 .

[DarwinJames]

Jensonagain, I understand your post. True, the pausing is traditional in a game of this type. I will not dispute that.

But I have a heavy Guild Wars background, 7 characters having completed all three chapters and Eye of the North; and I am a level 10 Luxon. Played GW since the retail release of Prophecies over 4 years ago.

You can solo Guild Wars, or play with other players. I have a good guild, but most of us solo most of the time. In solo you have three configurable heroes selectable from a large set of heroes. The full party is 8, so you add four henchmen who are preprogrammed NPC players to your party. Since the last patch of a few months ago, the henchmen are really as good as your heroes.

People complain about the rotten hero and hench AI in Guild Wars, but in truth they are more consistently competent than most players! It is an online game, so there is no pausing. Combats are in real time. Once combat begins, you can just let the heroes and hench do their jobs. You can micromanage their skills, but you rarely need to. Your concern as party leader is to direct fire to keep melee off your healers and casters, attacking the mob healers and casters when you can, while also keeping the melee out of your own face. And you must keep your party out of AoE when possible. There is plenty to do.

I am continually amazed at how well the hero and hench programming really works in GW. So, yes, it can be done. It could have been done here too. Why did they not do it? Just the tradition of the game genre, that's all.