138 réponses à ce sujet

[T1l]

There are two types of people who play Dragon Age.



Those who understand IF and THEN statements, and those who don't. You fall in to the latter category, OP.

[exorzist]

Dragon Age – Pen And Paper Version Released -- Let them play the tabletop version of this game and while they're thinkin about their next move just go ahead and tell them they're already dead .... thought too long ... Maybe they'll reconsider bit**** about pause function ...

Modifié par exorzist, 10 décembre 2009 - 03:17 .

[AiyanaLindari]

Pausing is great because it actually lets me have a life while playing this game.

[Taleroth]

exorzist wrote...

Dragon Age – Pen And Paper Version Released -- Let them play the tabletop version of this game and while they're thinkin about their next move just go ahead and tell them they're already dead .... thought too long ...

Mage: I WANT TO CAST ARC-
Rogue: I WANT TO DIRTY FIG-
Warrior: SHUT UP, I CAN'T TELL T-
DM: My god, my ears, get out of my house!

[Skydiver8888]

Jensonagain wrote...

Wanna know the real reason there is pausing in the game?

When the crappy companion AI breaks, you have to pause and fix it. There is nothing strategic about that. No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat. That defeats the purpose of the battle in the first place.

Bioware still hasn't learned how to make intelligent companion AI that can follow your tactics without question.

Because the companion AI is still light years behind everyone else, they added "pausing" so you can fix the flaws in the companion AI.  When the AI breaks, you pause and fix it.

As a computer programmer I spent hours trying to understand the "in game tactics" window.  It's flawed.

When you first trigger mobs, they don't all trigger and this fools your companions into thinking there is only 1-2 enemies.  So if their tactics are set to kill "mages and archers first", guess what? Chances are these mobs are in the back so your companions won't know it.

DESPITE this, I still love the game because the story & voice acting is so good. And I like the fact that flanking matters in the game.  These two things make up for the horrible companion AI/tactics.

you very funny, dr. jones!

[Shadow_Viper]

IFSW and L2P

[exorzist]

AiyanaLindari wrote...

Pausing is great because it actually lets me have a life while playing this game.

Well, there is nothing more to add.

I've been convincing and converting family members and friends to try out Dragon Age for themselves on my machine and using the pause function is actually the best ingame tool for converting people

You get to explain certain aspects and functions of the game without any haste. Meanwhile, go to the kitchen and make more tea and bring some cookies and when you return you have a smile on your face because the newly converted DAO fan is reading the codex while battle is paused ...  I love those moments

[Jensonagain]

II Relics II wrote...

I have a question.

Have you ever tried to modify your tactics? If not then I suggest you do before you post troll-bait on this forum (I don't mean to sound mean or critical I am just saying that this is a perfect set-up for flame wars).

I have had no problems with the NPC AI, and the pause feature has much more use than "fixing" the supposedly broken AI... I use it to study how many enemies there are, form my strategy, decide who I want to attack first, assign my NPCs to certain enemies if I do not have enough room on my tactics menu, assign specific talents or spells as needed.

Those are only a few reasons I use the pause menu.

Yes, it is impossible to have your companions attack mages first followed by archers.

Start a new game right now and play all the way to the tower of ishal ogre boss.  I gurantee you there is no way you can make a tactics script that will actually work by targeting mages first followed by archers.  It's broken.

[Jensonagain]

DarwinJames wrote...

Jensonagain, I understand your post. True, the pausing is traditional in a game of this type. I will not dispute that.

But I have a heavy Guild Wars background, 7 characters having completed all three chapters and Eye of the North; and I am a level 10 Luxon. Played GW since the retail release of Prophecies over 4 years ago.

You can solo Guild Wars, or play with other players. I have a good guild, but most of us solo most of the time. In solo you have three configurable heroes selectable from a large set of heroes. The full party is 8, so you add four henchmen who are preprogrammed NPC players to your party. Since the last patch of a few months ago, the henchmen are really as good as your heroes.

People complain about the rotten hero and hench AI in Guild Wars, but in truth they are more consistently competent than most players! It is an online game, so there is no pausing. Combats are in real time. Once combat begins, you can just let the heroes and hench do their jobs. You can micromanage their skills, but you rarely need to. Your concern as party leader is to direct fire to keep melee off your healers and casters, attacking the mob healers and casters when you can, while also keeping the melee out of your own face. And you must keep your party out of AoE when possible. There is plenty to do.

I am continually amazed at how well the hero and hench programming really works in GW. So, yes, it can be done. It could have been done here too. Why did they not do it? Just the tradition of the game genre, that's all.

We are like minded thinkers.  I too have compared the AI of this game to guild wars.

Guild wars has superior companion AI to this game.  

Bioware should buy a license of their AI companion technology.

Modifié par Jensonagain, 10 décembre 2009 - 03:41 .

[Jensonagain]

T1l wrote...

There are two types of people who play Dragon Age.

Those who understand IF and THEN statements, and those who don't. You fall in to the latter category, OP.

LOL, you haven't played dragon age as much as me.

I dare you to make a tactics script that will target enemy mages first followed by enemy archers and that works 100% of the time.

Once you try that you can come back and say "damn jenson you were right".

You have to pause in order to fix the crappy companion AI.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Jensonagain wrote...

T1l wrote...

There are two types of people who play Dragon Age.

Those who understand IF and THEN statements, and those who don't. You fall in to the latter category, OP.

LOL, you haven't played dragon age as much as me.

OMG, run T1l , he can see how much DA you have played!   It must be his 1337 programming skills that allow him him to know these things for certain.

[dirtyklingon]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

soteria wrote...
I don't believe you.  The tactics are a simple series of IF > THEN statements.  If you were really a computer programmer, you would have no problem understanding it.  If you want to make a point, fine, but don't make stuff up to try to make yourself sound more qualified.

Pfft..he is obviously a computer programmer that can't figure out how to register his game OR properly set up the tactics screen. Don't be hatin.

registering the game on these forums doesn't work for me. it's like the 4th place i've registered it (or at least tried in this case) so it's no big deal.

apparently the tactics menu doesn't let you get too complicated. keep it simple or it will break.

[Sloth Of Doom]

dirtyklingon wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

soteria wrote...
I don't believe you.  The tactics are a simple series of IF > THEN statements.  If you were really a computer programmer, you would have no problem understanding it.  If you want to make a point, fine, but don't make stuff up to try to make yourself sound more qualified.

Pfft..he is obviously a computer programmer that can't figure out how to register his game OR properly set up the tactics screen. Don't be hatin.

registering the game on these forums doesn't work for me. it's like the 4th place i've registered it (or at least tried in this case) so it's no big deal.

apparently the tactics menu doesn't let you get too complicated. keep it simple or it will break.

So putting your code in here doesn't work eh?

[Sa Seba]

Screw tactis. I control every step during combat because I don't trust AI.
The only things I let them do is activate certain sustainables.
And I like it that way.

Modifié par Sa Seba, 10 décembre 2009 - 04:06 .

[T1l]

Jensonagain wrote...

LOL, you haven't played dragon age as much as me.

I dare you to make a tactics script that will target enemy mages first followed by enemy archers and that works 100% of the time.

What an ad hominem argument. Honestly; you can do better than that.

Regardless, I have set up literally hundreds of different tactic sets for different groups; and whilst they may not work 100% of the time I can say categorically that when they do not work it has been a fault of my own rather than that of the AI. Pathing issues are another topic all together but tactics are, in my experience, both well implemented and functional. If you are having problems look inwards before blaming others.

Also, Sloth of Doom, my love for you is like a truck.

Modifié par T1l, 10 décembre 2009 - 04:26 .

[anonygoose]

The AI is fine to me. The only real thing I could think of to improve it in general is some sort of attack "anchor". Know what I mean? Not to tell your character to 'hold', but to tell them to only attack in melee within a certain range of a point you've placed on the map. It would solve a lot of my "I need you to hold so you don't rampage into my AoE spell, but I'd also like you to continue attacking a character when you've knocked them ever so slightly out of range" problem. It really does negate the effect of knocking someone down when your character stops attacking on Hold because he's half an inch out of range.



Otherwise: Pause is fine. The game is a bit hectic at times without it, but not because of poor AI. The game shouldn't play itself, anyway.

[IAGTTBleed]

Click the select all party members button.

Right click on mage one.

When mage one is dead right click on mage two.

When mage two is dead right click on mage three.

When mage three is dead right click on archer one.

etc etc.



Wow... No pause and no tactics... I AM A GAMING GOD!!!

[ClayMeow]

anonygoose wrote...

The AI is fine to me. The only real thing I could think of to improve it in general is some sort of attack "anchor". Know what I mean? Not to tell your character to 'hold', but to tell them to only attack in melee within a certain range of a point you've placed on the map. It would solve a lot of my "I need you to hold so you don't rampage into my AoE spell, but I'd also like you to continue attacking a character when you've knocked them ever so slightly out of range" problem. It really does negate the effect of knocking someone down when your character stops attacking on Hold because he's half an inch out of range.

That, and a tactic option for multi-ally health/mana/stamina levels so setting group heal or mass rejuv as a tactic is viable.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

If the option of pause hurts you so much why don't you try not pressing it?



jeez people whine about anything

[MGeezer]

The game has pause and play so you can use your real intelligence in place of artificial intelligence.



I sort of understand the desire for great AI, but I want to play and control my entire party, and have since the original turn-based games like Wizardry 1 and Might and Magic 1. I mean do people really feel satisfaction if the AI wins the battle for them? Why not just watch a movie?

[Fryce]

Jensonagain wrote...

Wanna know the real reason there is pausing in the game?

When the crappy companion AI breaks, you have to pause and fix it. There is nothing strategic about that. No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat. That defeats the purpose of the battle in the first place.

Bioware still hasn't learned how to make intelligent companion AI that can follow your tactics without question.

Because the companion AI is still light years behind everyone else, they added "pausing" so you can fix the flaws in the companion AI.  When the AI breaks, you pause and fix it.

As a computer programmer I spent hours trying to understand the "in game tactics" window.  It's flawed.

When you first trigger mobs, they don't all trigger and this fools your companions into thinking there is only 1-2 enemies.  So if their tactics are set to kill "mages and archers first", guess what? Chances are these mobs are in the back so your companions won't know it.

DESPITE this, I still love the game because the story & voice acting is so good. And I like the fact that flanking matters in the game.  These two things make up for the horrible companion AI/tactics.

CHALLENGE: Start a new game right now and play all the way to the tower of ishal upper floor.  I guarantee there is no way you can make a tactics script that will actually target and kill mages first followed by killing archers.  It's broken... You're companions may do it sometimes like 30-50% of the time but the other times it will break.

Your entire post has been addressed with one single mod.

http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=181

Good thing you spent those hours of research into possible tactic mods as well

Modifié par SharpneI, 10 décembre 2009 - 04:43 .

[Jensonagain]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

If the option of pause hurts you so much why don't you try not pressing it?

jeez people whine about anything

I pause one time and that is right when the fight starts so I can survey the area.

Once I survey the area I can manually tell my party what to do.

If the companion tactics weren't so broken I wouldnt' even need to do that.

[anonygoose]

MGeezer wrote...

 I mean do people really feel satisfaction if the AI wins the battle for them? Why not just watch a movie?

Exactly.  There's no doubt that the AI in many games could completely strip away the need for any intelligence on the part of the player... but then it's no longer a game, is it?  It's basically a slightly-interactive tech-demo.

[irinotecan]

I seem to remember that when BioWare originally announced early on in NWN development that they were not going to implement pausing during combat, there was a s*it storm on the boards over this, and they eventually decided "after playtesting" that they would go ahead and implement pause-and-play combat.

BioWare can't get a break it seems. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. I can almost guarantee you that they put pause n' play into DA:O because of the outcry when they tried to excise it from NWN.

Modifié par irinotecan, 10 décembre 2009 - 05:16 .

[boba1974]

Jensonagain wrote...

I pause one time and that is right when the fight starts so I can survey the area.

Once I survey the area I can manually tell my party what to do.

If the companion tactics weren't so broken I wouldnt' even need to do that.

Actually, i'm continually impressed with the tactics system and have been able to set some highly complex scenarios that would otherwise be impossible with it in the game. Even so, the tactics system isn't supposed to completely remove you from playing your group mates, it's there to assist you so you don't have to micro-manage every action.

Grab the advanced tactics and 25 tactics mods and you will be set...if you know what you are doing.

Finally, the pause in the game has nothing to do with the tactics system at all. It's been in every Bioware game i can remember as well as many other rpgs and is a well loved feature by most of their fans, so trying to attribute it to the tactics feature in Dragon Age is laughable.
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