138 réponses à ce sujet

[MerinTB]

I remember taking awhile to get used to games like Freedom Force and X-Men Legends, really disliking that my 3 other characters would run around doing stuff while I was controlling my guy. I hate that. I wish there were still a few completely turn-based CRPGs out there (if there are, someone point me to them!) For BG, BG2, and other such CRPGs that had AI settings for your party members I almost always turned them off because they never did close to what I wanted them to do (and I never trusted the computer to decide when to cast spells ever!)



Whether KotOR or Icewind Dale or DAO, I pause a lot. I enjoy micromanaging an awful lot.



That said this (DAO) is the first game where I actually find the AI tactics for party members at least somewhat useful, and I love playing with them. I don't have to pause nearly as much because often the tactics work how I want, and at worst I'm switching up tactics at the start of fights after I see the layout of the fight.



I'm not sure what OP is talking about, but I had my Dog set to do close to what he's talking about and I've got an archer set to pretty much what he is talking about, I believe.

His challenge is to have your character have tactics set that they attack mages and archers first. My Dog would charge through fire and hail, if set right and on Aggressive, to run across the battlefield to Charge or Overwhelm a mage then chose them to bits.

My archer is set to shoot a mage then shoot an archer (you set them to use abilities with cooldowns, so it finds a mage and tries to hit it with pinning shot or some such (Andraste's arrows are nice for this) and then next tactic is target nearest archer with crippling shot or some such - and if you want to get fancy have your next tactic target nearest heavy armor with shattering shot, and you hit an armored enemy too.



The distance to seeing the enemies works both ways - if the enemy AI can't see your guys, more or less, your AI can't see the enemy. It's only fair.

[FollowTheGourd]

All this just about pausing when the *real* issue is that they let you save your game, and you can even reload when you die. Talk about easy mode there!

Well, I suppose the OP's real point is about "real time combat with pause" not just "pause". Companion AI has never been the greatest in any game I can recall - there are some things that looked iffy in the AI scripts and can probably be improved at some point - or just live with the AI being "less terrible with tactics". I don't think you can ever sufficiently replace a human just being able to queue up some commands, but I know queued commands won't work well in DA because of the more dynamic nature of abilities - as a dev mentioned a while ago.

Modifié par FollowTheGourd, 10 décembre 2009 - 05:30 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Jensonagain wrote...

No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat.

You need to defend an assertion like that.

I disabled the AI as soon as I got the game because I want to play all the characters.  It's a party-based RPG.  How would you suggest we play all the characters simultaneously without pausing?

And, like many people, I've been a fan of BioWare's RPGs since BG.  Real-time with pause is exactly the combat mechanic I enjoy.  If ever pausing went away, I would immediately stop playing.

[IAGTTBleed]

http://hoboken411.co...oken-trolls.jpg

[Wolfva2]

Folks, just read Jensonagain's post history. You'll swiftly realize he's just a troll trying to whip up negative attention. Again. No real point in responding to him as all he wants is to fling vitriol like a monkey flinging feces.

[bluehaze013]

Wasn't much into the pausing, eat a heal pot, back to battle type play in the beginning either but then I learned about using tactics and upgrading my characters to have more tactic slots and now I love the combat system. All my characters fight the way i want them too without me having to pause and tell them to do something. It's pretty ingenious IMO.I rarely ever have to pause at all anymore not even for healpots and it's pretty cool watching my party fight by my side using the tactics I employ them with!



It works great you just have to take the time to set it up properly... *hint* If your having to pause alot you have not setup your tactics properly!

[Superdink]

Taleroth wrote...

They see me trolling
they hatin'

Patrollin and tryin
to catch me writing nooby

[bjdbwea]

So you want the AI to play the game for you. Maybe a movie would be more your kind of thing? I do agree that AI programming is still very basic in most games, but the problem is usually the stupid and unchallenging enemy AI.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 10 décembre 2009 - 07:04 .

[Titius.Vibius]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Folks, just read Jensonagain's post history. You'll swiftly realize he's just a troll trying to whip up negative attention. Again. No real point in responding to him as all he wants is to fling vitriol like a monkey flinging feces.

Moderators have double standard too, when you rebuke the trolling of other people you get a warning. Even if you are trying to show that it is not generally the game's problem but rather caused by another factor and its not even consistent to reproduce.

[AsheraII]

I've even know RTS's with a pause button. The best strategy game I've *ever* played was turn based even (MAX 1, and I still occasionally play that one), nothing wrong with that. I certainly prefer pausing over scripting my party. It just feels more.. real somehow.

[Wolfva2]

Titius.Vibius wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

Folks, just read Jensonagain's post history. You'll swiftly realize he's just a troll trying to whip up negative attention. Again. No real point in responding to him as all he wants is to fling vitriol like a monkey flinging feces.

Moderators have double standard too, when you rebuke the trolling of other people you get a warning. Even if you are trying to show that it is not generally the game's problem but rather caused by another factor and its not even consistent to reproduce.

True. In which case you'll be getting the same warning I'll be getting about the same time ROTFLOL.

[Jordi B]

I think pausing is great. In fact, Baldur's Gate pretty much ruined the RTS genre for me, because it generally doesn't have pausing, even though it would make a lot of sense to me. Strategic combat should not be about quick reflexes and mouse skills.

Having said that, I do agree that the companion AI pretty much sucks. You can mitigate this with somewhat with Tactics, but the Tactics menu is extremely unexpressive and lacking in features. You can't use all basic situations as preconditions and you can't use all abilities/talents as postconditions. In the unmodded game you generally don't even have enough Tactics slots to use all talents. I'm more concerned with things like where the NPCs walk, which weapons they use and which enemies they decide to attack though. Things that can not, or barely, be set with Tactics. I'm sure you can finish the game on every difficulty setting with these basic Tactics, but that doesn't mean that the AI is very smart. I see them doing stupid things pretty much every round and still win every encounter. I guess my standards are just a little bit higher than those of the people who claim that Tactics are great.

[BewareTheDrow]

Following the OP's challenge to create a tactic that would have companions attack mages first followed by archers, I did exactly that. It took 20 minutes to clear Ostagar to the Ogre on normal. (hint: Target using attack type: magic / Target using attack type: ranged) I never switched control off of my main character. (just for kicks)

I really didn't need to do this to prove that the tactics work fine, but I did it anyway to make sure I didn't miss something. I'm inclined to say the OP simply doesn't understand conditional logic or just didn't set the tactics up in the correct order. Oh well.

I guess technically I "broke" the challenge by starting from a save in Ostagar, but I really couldn't be bothered to go through the whole origin story just to check something so silly.

Modifié par BewareTheDrow, 10 décembre 2009 - 08:12 .

[Mordaedil]

I can't wait for this game to be six months old so people will have moved on from trolling these forums and moved on to Mass Effect 2.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Mordaedil wrote...

I can't wait for this game to be six months old so people will have moved on from trolling these forums and moved on to Mass Effect 2.

We can only hope. 

[Eranelle]

I'm no computer programmer, I'm no professional gamer and I just played this game last Saturday but for someone like me, pausing the game and setting the NPCs on who they will attack is the best part I've experienced.

[LunSei Sleidee]

Jensonagain wrote...

No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat.

This.... this is... I just.... I can't...... I'm...... speechless.

[Papa Emeritus IV]

I freaking loved turn based battles in old school RPGs. No wonder I pause every second or so and control every character in my party. I barely ever rely on AI settings.



All I want to say is I love this option.

[Jsmith0730]

Uh, I play almost exclusively with tactics. I only pause for very situational NPC control, not because the AI is/isn't doing something I don't want them to, but because I want them to do something different than I set them to do and haven't had any problems whatsoever.

Modifié par Jsmith0730, 10 décembre 2009 - 09:15 .

[Killian Kalthorne]

Gods, if you don't like it don't use it. If you don't like the AI in the game then don't play it. There is a really simple solution about games that people seem not to like. DON'T PLAY THEM. Problem solved.

[IAGTTBleed]

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!

[Dieover]

pausing the game has it good side: allow you deploy crucial tactic and know your surrounding and of course which target to tsk tsk.

[Lughsan35]

Jensonagain wrote...

Wanna know the real reason there is pausing in the game?

When the crappy companion AI breaks, you have to pause and fix it. There is nothing strategic about that. No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat. That defeats the purpose of the battle in the first place.

Bioware still hasn't learned how to make intelligent companion AI that can follow your tactics without question.

Because the companion AI is still light years behind everyone else, they added "pausing" so you can fix the flaws in the companion AI.  When the AI breaks, you pause and fix it.

As a computer programmer I spent hours trying to understand the "in game tactics" window.  It's flawed.

When you first trigger mobs, they don't all trigger and this fools your companions into thinking there is only 1-2 enemies.  So if their tactics are set to kill "mages and archers first", guess what? Chances are these mobs are in the back so your companions won't know it.

DESPITE this, I still love the game because the story & voice acting is so good. And I like the fact that flanking matters in the game.  These two things make up for the horrible companion AI/tactics.

CHALLENGE: Start a new game right now and play all the way to the tower of ishal upper floor.  I guarantee there is no way you can make a tactics script that will actually target and kill mages first followed by killing archers.  It's broken... You're companions may do it sometimes like 30-50% of the time but the other times it will break.

I had no trouble with this.  Dog pounced all over those mages and so did allistair..

[phordicus]

only sort of relevant:

i think class targeting is broken. i've got morrigan to use mana drain on mages. she uses it on everyone.  will try the less than ideal alternate "being attacked by magic" condition.

Modifié par phordicus, 10 décembre 2009 - 10:16 .

[GODzilla]

This failtopic failed at failing. -.-

Baldurs Gate, Baldurs Gate 2, Knights of the Old Republic, Knights of the Old Republic II, Neverwinter Nights...all had pausing. Bioware makes games with pausing. Omg...