138 réponses à ce sujet

[boe2]

Seems the trolls ran out of stuff to bash.
I mean...really? Bash the pauze feature? What's next? Bash the ingame clock? Bash keyboard and mouse controls?
Oh, I have a good one: This game sucks because it lights up my monitor in different colors. What the hell is up with all those colors? I'm a programmer and all I need is black and white. It seems like the peeps at bioware STILL can't make a decent game without relying on colors.

What did you say? Baldur's Gate has color as well? They are even bigger noobs than I thought!

Modifié par boe2, 10 décembre 2009 - 10:31 .

[menasure]

the funny part is that the pause function reveals more of the flaws than playing in real time can ;o
sure there are bugs but some of these flaws in the movements really only last a fraction of a second

Modifié par menasure, 10 décembre 2009 - 10:39 .

[smore006]

Jensonagain wrote...

No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat.

No one in their right mind would start a topic about the pause option (which is, in fact, an option), then go ahead and start a completely off-topic whine about the NPC AI and ultimately the whole game.

That said, i totally love the original poster for providing this option to take another look at the 'OMGLOLImSo1337IKnoEverything!!!!!oneleven'-world.

Edit: i so not under the impression that the original poster has been already banned from the site and registered again... 

Modifié par smore006, 10 décembre 2009 - 11:23 .

[hzss12]

Jensonagain wrote...

As a computer programmer I spent hours trying to understand the "in game tactics" window.  It's flawed.

I could write so many funny things for this.
Just maybe a mild one : make sure your employer is not checking this site, and cannot identify you

But...check your facts before you write.
Bioware created DA:O to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.
Have you ever played or at least seen Baldur's Gate?
If you haven't I tell you : there are more than half a dozen types of pause game conditions (pause on attacked, pause on enemy killed etc.).

This is the strategic fight experience they wanted to emulate.

Now, DA:O has just one : pause on enemy sight.
If you told me that DA:O fails to be a spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate, cause there is only one type of pause condition, I would agree with you.

But come on, bashing the game because it has a manual pause function.
Yep, there are people, including me, who actually like to use the manual pause function.
And not only because the companion AI is broken (I am not saying it's perfect).
It gives the immersive tactical fight experience, that lets you manage your own companions.

[Vaeliorin]

Jensonagain wrote...
No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat.

This is actually true.  If people were in their right minds, all RPGs would be turn-based.

(What can I say, I prefer turn-based to any other option.)

[orpheus333]

ClayMeow wrote...

anonygoose wrote...

The AI is fine to me. The only real thing I could think of to improve it in general is some sort of attack "anchor". Know what I mean? Not to tell your character to 'hold', but to tell them to only attack in melee within a certain range of a point you've placed on the map. It would solve a lot of my "I need you to hold so you don't rampage into my AoE spell, but I'd also like you to continue attacking a character when you've knocked them ever so slightly out of range" problem. It really does negate the effect of knocking someone down when your character stops attacking on Hold because he's half an inch out of range.

That, and a tactic option for multi-ally health/mana/stamina levels so setting group heal or mass rejuv as a tactic is viable.

THis can be done (Ally : Health <25% | Jump To Tactic) but it takes up an unrealistic number of tactics slots better suited to more singular events. Mind Blast when surrounded. Stone fist or crushing prison when a shatter is available. I enjoy the pause and play system it has been a long time since it has been used in CRPGs. I believe the tactics system is pretty powerful and can be used to make effective AI without alot of pausing. For me its use is for catching events that i may not see quickly enough for a healer. Catching changes in enemy targetting with tanks, Critical and Stealth shots for shatters with archers etc. It suppliments my ability to play. Nothing more.

People play differently though i can;t think of a single CRPG from the last few years that has satisfactory companion AI. GW could be used as an example i guess (and while i loved the game, and still play on and off) its combat situations and enemy AI are very simplistic. Allowing the faults in the Henchman Hero AI to be over looked most of the time.

Modifié par andyr1986, 10 décembre 2009 - 11:51 .

[hzss12]

Mordaedil wrote...

I can't wait for this game to be six months old so people will have moved on from trolling these forums and moved on to Mass Effect 2.

You are wrong, people will start bashing DA:O cause its graphics is outdated, and why on earth doesn't it have this and that feature that ME2 has? "It is in ME2, was it that hard to implement it in DA:O?"

[orpheus333]

hzss12 wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...

I can't wait for this game to be six months old so people will have moved on from trolling these forums and moved on to Mass Effect 2.

You are wrong, people will start bashing DA:O cause its graphics is outdated, and why on earth doesn't it have this and that feature that ME2 has? "It is in ME2, was it that hard to implement it in DA:O?"

LIke guns...DLC Rocket Launchers maybe?

[smore006]

hzss12 wrote...
You are wrong, people will start bashing DA:O cause its graphics is outdated, and why on earth doesn't it have this and that feature that ME2 has? "It is in ME2, was it that hard to implement it in DA:O?"

You forgot the part where they complain that ME2 took too much from DA:O, like the individual approval/loyalty system and what not.
And, the ultimate problem of them all: teh presence of teh p4u53! How dare you, Bioware, put a pause option into your games?! It's like...you don't have enough content so you artificially lengthen the gameplay, or what? 

Modifié par smore006, 10 décembre 2009 - 12:09 .

[hzss12]

I demand that Bioware remove "NPCs" from their games, it's such a cheap feature to entertain people, and it is definatelly a feature to hide and compensate for the fact that there is no multiplayer in DA:O (and ME, by the way).

[dreepa]

Mmhh... Lets start a big flamewar so this thread gets locked. Cause thats all it deserves.



I ll make the start: Shut the **** up

[smore006]

What's an "NPC", anyway? Surely just another way to mock the console players (Not Personal Computer). Duh. All mentions of NPCs to be removed. At the same time, the option to pause too!

I want a DLC to remove the pause! I'd soooo pay for it! But it better be long, very long, otherwise i'll start a thread about it not being worth my mom's money.

Modifié par smore006, 10 décembre 2009 - 12:27 .

[smore006]

dreepa wrote...

Mmhh... Lets start a big flamewar so this thread gets locked. Cause thats all it deserves.

It's so heart-warming to find people with similar way of thinking... 

Modifié par smore006, 10 décembre 2009 - 12:23 .

[Torias]

If you want a thread to die, stop posting in it.

Hell, I was considering locking this thread anyway, but now if I do, you yahoos will think it was cause of your pretend flamewar >:-(

[Statue]

I love micromanaging in party based combat games, so the pause function would be essential for me even if the AI tactics system was flawless. There are plenty of other players that like playing that way too and not just because they feel the AI tactics is flawed, and Bioware is aware of the turn-based background of many players - so whilst it might well be true that there are some clunky aspects to the AI tactics system, I don't think you can make the leap to argue that they are the sole reason that pause has been included in the game.



Personally, I'd prefer more developmental focus/interface support for micromanaged play than the simple pause gives (for example, configurable autopauses for some of those conditions that trigger AI tactics behaviours - looking forward to a mod for that), as there's a more developed system for players at the other end of the playstyle spectrum (i.e the AI tactics). Imagine how much micromanagers like me would be disgruntled if there wasn't at least the (albeit bare-bones) support for micromanaged play that pause grants. I'd have been tempted to pass on DAO, which would have been sad.



In short, yes, there are some flaws and limitations in the AI tactics system (for me, I think AI won't likely outperform a skilled human at tactical and strategic decision-making), but that isn't the sole reason for pause being provided - for some it's a playstyle preference that Bioware has thankfully not entirely neglected.

[hzss12]

smore006 wrote...

dreepa wrote...

Mmhh... Lets start a big flamewar so this thread gets locked. Cause thats all it deserves.

It's so heart-warming to find people with similar way of thinking... 

But..but we just started having fun!

[Filton_Kingswood]

Dude go and boot up Dungeon Siege. It's a screensaver that lets you watch your party do all the hard work.

[mkonrad6288]

I don't understand why people get so animated when somebody complains about the AI in this game. Tactics work alright for the most part, but there's some underlying issues, pathing specifically, which are less than perfect. It's tough technology to get right with the limited number of CPU cycles of a small lookahead, but to pretend that pausing makes up for a tank that can't make his way through a doorway and gets hung up in a room corner does a disservice to Bioware.



And comments such as being unable to target a mage first with the _game supplied_ tactics menu available are actually very good feedback. An issue with X/2 mobs coming into focus first and not being able to detect the rear guard (such as a mage) because some entered visibility first is actually something that Bioware might be able to act upon in a patch or DLC. I doubt they're going to do a lot of changing to the pathing algorithms or decisions heuristics before DA2, but perhaps the tactics could be fixed up a bit.

[SheffSteel]

Rodro Lliv wrote...

Jensonagain wrote...

No one in their right mind would ever make an RPG game that lets you pause combat. That defeats the purpose of the battle in the first place.

As a Baldur's Gate fanatic, I cannot read further.

... and the turn based RPGs... they pause automatically at the end of each turn... no way to stop them... I try and I try but they pause... arrrrr.... my mind....

[Statue]

I think most of the negative reactions aren't to the suggestion that the AI tactics have flaws. There are flaws and there are some shiny bits. A lot of the negative reactions are because of the assertion that the pause feature only exists to compensate for AI flaws, which misses the point that it's a popular playstyle of a lot of long-time CRPG players, and would be whether the AI tactics were perfect or not.

I agree that constructively discussing what the specific flaws are is useful.

Modifié par Statue, 10 décembre 2009 - 03:34 .

[Fluffykeith]

I'd hazard a guess that it's mostly down to the manner in which the complaints are made..."how" you say something is often as important as "what". If the OP had made a post that was constructed around giving useful feedback, I doubt there would have been such a nippy response. People tend to get worked up about posts that launch broad attacks on things, assume superiority or demand that everyone else prove they aren't "stupid" for not agreeing with the OP.



The problem with targeting mage/archers isn't a tactics issue, it's a Line of Sight/Threat issue, and either way it has nothing to do with the pause function.



And in any case, the OPs tactic of going "waaaaa!!!! This is poo!" is hardly constructive

[Gecon]

Hmpf. The OP really needs to get a brain. Preferably a working one.

For the record, DA is pause and play because it has never been planned to be anything else. You cannot control a full party as a single player without pause and play.

Modifié par Gecon, 10 décembre 2009 - 03:46 .

[Adria Teksuni]

*shrug*



Whoever said Bioware was in their right mind?