I just noticed I was pretty sad when Thane died even though he was just like a friend to me, how did you Thanemancers feel when he died, sad? angry at Bioware?
I have a Question to all you Thanemancers
Débuté par
Khajiit Jzargo
, mai 18 2012 11:35
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#2
Posté 18 mai 2012 - 11:42
DWH1982
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A lot of them seem to be angry because there wasn't much in the way of continuation for the romance.
Based on what I've read... they really should have had the opportunity to do a little more with him.
I have a maleShep, and even I'm a little irked I didn't get more Thane. He was a good friend to Edwin Shepard. Would have been nice to at least be able to walk in on him discussing something with Ash. Maybe religion, or the mission against the Collectors.
Based on what I've read... they really should have had the opportunity to do a little more with him.
I have a maleShep, and even I'm a little irked I didn't get more Thane. He was a good friend to Edwin Shepard. Would have been nice to at least be able to walk in on him discussing something with Ash. Maybe religion, or the mission against the Collectors.
#3
Posté 18 mai 2012 - 11:43
cerberus1701
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Angry at Bioware only due to the fact that there was virtually no furtherance of the relationship at all.
There's no difference between romancing him and befriending him in the game beyond the use of the affectation of "Siha" if you romanced him
There's no difference between romancing him and befriending him in the game beyond the use of the affectation of "Siha" if you romanced him
#4
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 01:31
Julia_xo
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All of the above and more.
Rant incoming:
Some people say "You knew he was dying. What'd you expect?" Which I think is pretty callous. What I expected was good writing, I expected my choices to matter and for a COHERENT conclusion to the character's subplot.
What I got was a forced outcome that disregards characterization, depth, basic emotions and player choice. It's not just the fact that Thane dies no matter what you do (I think he's the first LI in BioWare history to do so). It's the fact that so little thought was given to his character, overall. His cameo consisted of staring out a hospital window, ONE conversation dominated by talk of the VS and his impending death and that's all. He only leaves his spot by the hospital window to run off and get into a nonsensical fight with Kai Leng to speed along his death.
I thought it was awful how none of the other characters even react to his death. Not even Shepard. His death scene was generic to the point of absurdity. It doesn't matter if you romanced him or not, the scene was virtually the same. Shepard stood there like a stone - you'd never know he ever meant anything to her. Doesn't help that he is promptly forgotten by everyone who knew him. Which is made all the more tragic when you consider his words in ME2: "It seems there will be no one to mourn me when I die."
How right he was.
I just find the whole thing so horrible. Shepard is locked up for 6 months. Thane claims to have sent messages, which the Alliance apparently blocked. She gets an email from him at some point after he hears about what happened to Earth and rumors the Normandy had docked at the Citadel. She goes to see him and when asked what she's doing there she tells him: "I'm here to see, Ashley/Kaidan." (Thanks auto-dialogue)
Um, no. My Shepard was there to see Thane because she got his email and rushed over to meet him. Thane goes on to say how he will look out for the VS. It's a sweet gesture and all but he has so little to say as it is and I hate that what little there is gets partly spent on talking about them.
Other than the VS, all Thane and Shepard are given options to talk about are his disease/impending death and why he can't return to the Normandy. He talks about how he's on death's door and some unnamed doctor said he had three months to live nine months ago. Never mind that nine months ago he was on the Normandy helping Shepard stop the Collectors and Dr. Chakwas' write-up of his medical report mentioned none of that.
Can you ask him why he refused the lung transplant we knew he was eligible for? No. Can we ask him what the hell he's been doing for the last six months? No. Can we ask him if everything is ok between him and his son? No. Can Shepard discuss their relationship in a meaningful way? No. All we can ask is for him to return to the Normandy which he will refuse because he needs daily medical care. Let's forget that the Normandy has a fully functional med-bay and possibly also Dr. Chakwas who knows his medical history.
Basically the man who told Shepard "any time I have is yours to take" is now telling her he's content to be where he's at. He wants a break from war and conflict, they always knew it would end, etc.
A character retcon, if I've ever seen one. All Shepard can do is say goodbye or suggest they get some "private time" which involves getting up from their chairs to walk to the huge window and make-out like gropey teenagers. The make-out seems so counter to the conversation they just had that it's ridiculous. There's no real emotion expressed.
"I'm dying." "Come back to the Normandy." No. We always knew it would end." "Ok. Let's make out."
After which, you can't really talk to him again. He continues to sit by the hospital window. You can click on him but all he says is he's flattered Shep has stopped by again. The only options available are the three choices already discussed: Come back to the Normandy, How long do you have to live, does it hurt?
You can ask him to make-out again but he says it's too strenuous, they should just talk instead which is painfully laughable since he has nothing more to talk about. No options.
Then the Kai Leng stuff happens. No one bothers to help him. Despite having a gun Thane feels it's a good idea to run and jump onto Kai Leng's sword. The lack of caring continues from Shep's end. She really could not care less. It was like he meant nothing to her.
I felt a complete disconnect from Shepard. I was a wreck over what was happening and she was completely unfazed.
To add to the overall gut-punch after Thane dies his letter from the LotsB dlc is basically recycled and sent to Shep's email. The worst part is that the letter actually contradicts what Thane said at the hospital. He never wanted to die in a hospital and he writes: "My heart quickened its sluggish beat if only to remain at your side and protect you with everything that I am."
Which is contradictory, considering ME3Thane didn't seem to want to be by Shepard's side at all. It's nonsensical. There's no coherence to how they handled Thane. At all.
I think due to the flashy fight scene people overlook the awfulness of Thane's cameo but even that was badly done if you take two seconds to really think about it. Kai Leng's absurd plot armor makes the scene fall flat. Thane (plus Shep and squaddies) should have easily taken Leng out. I'm really upset with the writers. After Thane's ME2 writer left the company it seems no one at BioWare really cared about the character. Patrick Weekes' even admitted at one point they "forgot" he was a LI. Really? They forgot the character who was on the cover of ME2 and all over the promotional stuff? They forgot the character they claimed was created with their female fans in mind? They forgot the character despite fans sending them a "Cure Thane" banner which they supported and hung up in their office?
The neglect and disregard is just stunning. There are no words for how upset it makes me. It's even more saddening when you realize the relationship failures only happen to FemShep exclusive love interests.There is no equivalent of a LI dying no matter what or a LI dumping you no matter what for ManShep. Never before have I felt punished for choosing to play as a female character.
Rant incoming:
Some people say "You knew he was dying. What'd you expect?" Which I think is pretty callous. What I expected was good writing, I expected my choices to matter and for a COHERENT conclusion to the character's subplot.
What I got was a forced outcome that disregards characterization, depth, basic emotions and player choice. It's not just the fact that Thane dies no matter what you do (I think he's the first LI in BioWare history to do so). It's the fact that so little thought was given to his character, overall. His cameo consisted of staring out a hospital window, ONE conversation dominated by talk of the VS and his impending death and that's all. He only leaves his spot by the hospital window to run off and get into a nonsensical fight with Kai Leng to speed along his death.
I thought it was awful how none of the other characters even react to his death. Not even Shepard. His death scene was generic to the point of absurdity. It doesn't matter if you romanced him or not, the scene was virtually the same. Shepard stood there like a stone - you'd never know he ever meant anything to her. Doesn't help that he is promptly forgotten by everyone who knew him. Which is made all the more tragic when you consider his words in ME2: "It seems there will be no one to mourn me when I die."
How right he was.
I just find the whole thing so horrible. Shepard is locked up for 6 months. Thane claims to have sent messages, which the Alliance apparently blocked. She gets an email from him at some point after he hears about what happened to Earth and rumors the Normandy had docked at the Citadel. She goes to see him and when asked what she's doing there she tells him: "I'm here to see, Ashley/Kaidan." (Thanks auto-dialogue)
Um, no. My Shepard was there to see Thane because she got his email and rushed over to meet him. Thane goes on to say how he will look out for the VS. It's a sweet gesture and all but he has so little to say as it is and I hate that what little there is gets partly spent on talking about them.
Other than the VS, all Thane and Shepard are given options to talk about are his disease/impending death and why he can't return to the Normandy. He talks about how he's on death's door and some unnamed doctor said he had three months to live nine months ago. Never mind that nine months ago he was on the Normandy helping Shepard stop the Collectors and Dr. Chakwas' write-up of his medical report mentioned none of that.
Can you ask him why he refused the lung transplant we knew he was eligible for? No. Can we ask him what the hell he's been doing for the last six months? No. Can we ask him if everything is ok between him and his son? No. Can Shepard discuss their relationship in a meaningful way? No. All we can ask is for him to return to the Normandy which he will refuse because he needs daily medical care. Let's forget that the Normandy has a fully functional med-bay and possibly also Dr. Chakwas who knows his medical history.
Basically the man who told Shepard "any time I have is yours to take" is now telling her he's content to be where he's at. He wants a break from war and conflict, they always knew it would end, etc.
A character retcon, if I've ever seen one. All Shepard can do is say goodbye or suggest they get some "private time" which involves getting up from their chairs to walk to the huge window and make-out like gropey teenagers. The make-out seems so counter to the conversation they just had that it's ridiculous. There's no real emotion expressed.
"I'm dying." "Come back to the Normandy." No. We always knew it would end." "Ok. Let's make out."
After which, you can't really talk to him again. He continues to sit by the hospital window. You can click on him but all he says is he's flattered Shep has stopped by again. The only options available are the three choices already discussed: Come back to the Normandy, How long do you have to live, does it hurt?
You can ask him to make-out again but he says it's too strenuous, they should just talk instead which is painfully laughable since he has nothing more to talk about. No options.
Then the Kai Leng stuff happens. No one bothers to help him. Despite having a gun Thane feels it's a good idea to run and jump onto Kai Leng's sword. The lack of caring continues from Shep's end. She really could not care less. It was like he meant nothing to her.
I felt a complete disconnect from Shepard. I was a wreck over what was happening and she was completely unfazed.
To add to the overall gut-punch after Thane dies his letter from the LotsB dlc is basically recycled and sent to Shep's email. The worst part is that the letter actually contradicts what Thane said at the hospital. He never wanted to die in a hospital and he writes: "My heart quickened its sluggish beat if only to remain at your side and protect you with everything that I am."
Which is contradictory, considering ME3Thane didn't seem to want to be by Shepard's side at all. It's nonsensical. There's no coherence to how they handled Thane. At all.
I think due to the flashy fight scene people overlook the awfulness of Thane's cameo but even that was badly done if you take two seconds to really think about it. Kai Leng's absurd plot armor makes the scene fall flat. Thane (plus Shep and squaddies) should have easily taken Leng out. I'm really upset with the writers. After Thane's ME2 writer left the company it seems no one at BioWare really cared about the character. Patrick Weekes' even admitted at one point they "forgot" he was a LI. Really? They forgot the character who was on the cover of ME2 and all over the promotional stuff? They forgot the character they claimed was created with their female fans in mind? They forgot the character despite fans sending them a "Cure Thane" banner which they supported and hung up in their office?
The neglect and disregard is just stunning. There are no words for how upset it makes me. It's even more saddening when you realize the relationship failures only happen to FemShep exclusive love interests.There is no equivalent of a LI dying no matter what or a LI dumping you no matter what for ManShep. Never before have I felt punished for choosing to play as a female character.
#5
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 02:25
utaker1988
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How did I feel? Well, not too good. I can accept death, I've seen it, watched others cause theirs so before anyone says, "It's because he died", no it is not. It was the blatant disregard of Thane.
Let's go back to ME2. A romanced Thane comes to Shep's room before the Omega 4 and cries. He is no longer accepting of his mortality. He is scared and he is ashamed of feeling this way. He has found a reason to live, to no longer live a life contained within his own self imposed walls. It wasn't just his love for Shepard it was also him finding his son again. How do we know Thane loves Shepard. Because he says so in the letter you see in his LotSB dossier. I'll get back to that later.
Then comes ME3. Ok, this is where all kinds of wrong happen. You get this message to see him and of course, my FemShep runs right there. I do not stop to collect my $200 for passing Go, I do not bother to see Kaidan. Then I get my FemShep standing there telling Thane I am there to see Kaidan? WTF? No. Let's make some sense of the plot at this point. I did not even go in his room, heck, I don't even go in there after seeing Thane. Ok, so my LI wants to see me, he's dying and I kick him in the balls by acting like I'm there just because I happen to notice him by the window. Thanks.
Thane then asks about Kaidan, "is there something I should know about you two?" Right there, hope for continuation. I tell him basically it was in the past. Right, confirmation I am choosing Thane. Doesn't matter, I won't get an achievement for it. Apparently he doesn't count even though I chose him. I guess I chose wrong. BW gives me plenty of opportunity for a do over...choose Kaidan. No. I shot him during the Citadel Coup. Ok, now you have a choice for others..too bad they are all women. No. If I wanted a lesbian Shep, she would have been from the beginning. Doesn't matter, I continued the romance with Thane and for what? Apparently nothing.
But I digress, then there is the Paragon Interrupt kiss. Another false sense of continuation. Then there is the "Private Time" option on the dialogue wheel. A public dry humping session complete with porn noises! Oh my God! Are you kidding me? Apparently not. The other options on the wheel are about his dying and joining the Normandy. Which he says No too. Ok, whatever. Where exactly is the Thane that said he would stand beside Shepard? Where is the man who was afraid to die? Why are you accepting it now? Why are you all of a sudden backing away helping? Shep even tells you that you don't have to fight. WTF, Thane! You are not the Thane my Shep gave her heart too. That is it. No more conversations. He just sits there looking pathetic and staring out the window until.....
The Citadel Coup. Oh yes, the epitome of stupidness. Just why exactly was his ass there? If he was so damned concerned about his son that he could not join me on the Normandy then why the f**k is he trying to save a Salarian Councilor and not off ensuring his son is safe? Why? Oh yes, the fans of "Thane must die" needed this to be so. The fight with TroLeng, wow. It was not epic, great, or even good. It was pathetic. My FemShep loved this man, knew he was in poor health. But just stood there and watched! Oh the pain. KL stabs him, mind you Thane is running right toward the blade. I know the lack of oxygen is affecting his brain but not enough to make him stupid. So, that leads me to one conclusion. Thane did it on purpose. He chose the how and when of his death. In essence, he committed suicide. But it was epic according to some because suicide is always epic.
The death bed scene is just wrong. Before you even get to the room their is an option on the dialogue wheel to ask the doctor if there is anything you can do for him. Oh a glimmer of hope! We can help him. No, you cannot. Too bad for you. There would be no glimmer of hope if the things that were alluded to by BW themselves were not even put in ME2 to begin with. Why not just ask the doctor to see him and be done with it. No need to be sadistic about it and give us a sense that we can do something for him.
Right the scene. The prayer was touching and that was it. The scene does not differ much from a friendship Thane. FemShep can't muster a tear, an I love you, nothing. This is the man she loves and she says crap. The very last chance she will ever be able to tell him how she felt about him and it's not there. Wonderful. Then we are back on the Normandy and not one person remembers him. I'm not asking for a parade of I'm sorry Thane died, but ONE person, just ONE. Nope. Sorry. I know everyone knew. Kaidan said so if you try to LIE to him about Thane. He will tell you that you are lying because everyone knows. Thanks Kaidan, glad I went back later to check all the dialogues to see that it wasn't ignorance on everyone's part. No everyone knew. At this point, my Shep hates her entire crew and squad. They will all die eventually.
After his death we get the letter from Thane. Fantastic. Those of us who romanced him and read his dossier in LotSB already saw it. So to give it to us now and after his character was assassinated is just wrong and it makes no sense. He states in the letter he is dying. No, you are dead. He wanted to protect Shep, apparently not that is why you kept your ass at the hospital. I love you, well great another reminder that my pathetic and cold hearted FemShep couldn't tell you the same. There are other things in there and at one point on the Thane thread I broke it down, point by point. The letter was a slap in the face.
Then we get to the end and the last face we see is Liara's. I think my heart finally shattered into so many pieces at this point that it will take a long time to repair. I want to thank Aislinn though, she fixed that, at least my Thane loving FemShep's get to see his face at the end instead of Liara's.
Underneath it all, I am upset and saddened that he apparently didn't matter, it hurt. But it wasn't just Thane, it was the fact that I realized after that Jacob's was butchered too. I didn't romance him, or anyone else for that fact it was always Thane but it was already stated, it was FemShep's romances that were treated this way. Why do none of Sheploo's LI's die with no option to save them? Why do none of his LI's cheat on him? Why is it only FemShep's? Why BW did you just prove to me that other than my damn money, that as a female gamer I am nothing to you. You created Thane specifically for us, so at one point you wanted to show us that we mattered to you as fans. But then again, maybe I am wrong, maybe you never meant to show us you cared about your females fans you only wanted us to THINK you did. Which is more heartbreaking than what happened to our FemShep's romances.
Let's go back to ME2. A romanced Thane comes to Shep's room before the Omega 4 and cries. He is no longer accepting of his mortality. He is scared and he is ashamed of feeling this way. He has found a reason to live, to no longer live a life contained within his own self imposed walls. It wasn't just his love for Shepard it was also him finding his son again. How do we know Thane loves Shepard. Because he says so in the letter you see in his LotSB dossier. I'll get back to that later.
Then comes ME3. Ok, this is where all kinds of wrong happen. You get this message to see him and of course, my FemShep runs right there. I do not stop to collect my $200 for passing Go, I do not bother to see Kaidan. Then I get my FemShep standing there telling Thane I am there to see Kaidan? WTF? No. Let's make some sense of the plot at this point. I did not even go in his room, heck, I don't even go in there after seeing Thane. Ok, so my LI wants to see me, he's dying and I kick him in the balls by acting like I'm there just because I happen to notice him by the window. Thanks.
Thane then asks about Kaidan, "is there something I should know about you two?" Right there, hope for continuation. I tell him basically it was in the past. Right, confirmation I am choosing Thane. Doesn't matter, I won't get an achievement for it. Apparently he doesn't count even though I chose him. I guess I chose wrong. BW gives me plenty of opportunity for a do over...choose Kaidan. No. I shot him during the Citadel Coup. Ok, now you have a choice for others..too bad they are all women. No. If I wanted a lesbian Shep, she would have been from the beginning. Doesn't matter, I continued the romance with Thane and for what? Apparently nothing.
But I digress, then there is the Paragon Interrupt kiss. Another false sense of continuation. Then there is the "Private Time" option on the dialogue wheel. A public dry humping session complete with porn noises! Oh my God! Are you kidding me? Apparently not. The other options on the wheel are about his dying and joining the Normandy. Which he says No too. Ok, whatever. Where exactly is the Thane that said he would stand beside Shepard? Where is the man who was afraid to die? Why are you accepting it now? Why are you all of a sudden backing away helping? Shep even tells you that you don't have to fight. WTF, Thane! You are not the Thane my Shep gave her heart too. That is it. No more conversations. He just sits there looking pathetic and staring out the window until.....
The Citadel Coup. Oh yes, the epitome of stupidness. Just why exactly was his ass there? If he was so damned concerned about his son that he could not join me on the Normandy then why the f**k is he trying to save a Salarian Councilor and not off ensuring his son is safe? Why? Oh yes, the fans of "Thane must die" needed this to be so. The fight with TroLeng, wow. It was not epic, great, or even good. It was pathetic. My FemShep loved this man, knew he was in poor health. But just stood there and watched! Oh the pain. KL stabs him, mind you Thane is running right toward the blade. I know the lack of oxygen is affecting his brain but not enough to make him stupid. So, that leads me to one conclusion. Thane did it on purpose. He chose the how and when of his death. In essence, he committed suicide. But it was epic according to some because suicide is always epic.
The death bed scene is just wrong. Before you even get to the room their is an option on the dialogue wheel to ask the doctor if there is anything you can do for him. Oh a glimmer of hope! We can help him. No, you cannot. Too bad for you. There would be no glimmer of hope if the things that were alluded to by BW themselves were not even put in ME2 to begin with. Why not just ask the doctor to see him and be done with it. No need to be sadistic about it and give us a sense that we can do something for him.
Right the scene. The prayer was touching and that was it. The scene does not differ much from a friendship Thane. FemShep can't muster a tear, an I love you, nothing. This is the man she loves and she says crap. The very last chance she will ever be able to tell him how she felt about him and it's not there. Wonderful. Then we are back on the Normandy and not one person remembers him. I'm not asking for a parade of I'm sorry Thane died, but ONE person, just ONE. Nope. Sorry. I know everyone knew. Kaidan said so if you try to LIE to him about Thane. He will tell you that you are lying because everyone knows. Thanks Kaidan, glad I went back later to check all the dialogues to see that it wasn't ignorance on everyone's part. No everyone knew. At this point, my Shep hates her entire crew and squad. They will all die eventually.
After his death we get the letter from Thane. Fantastic. Those of us who romanced him and read his dossier in LotSB already saw it. So to give it to us now and after his character was assassinated is just wrong and it makes no sense. He states in the letter he is dying. No, you are dead. He wanted to protect Shep, apparently not that is why you kept your ass at the hospital. I love you, well great another reminder that my pathetic and cold hearted FemShep couldn't tell you the same. There are other things in there and at one point on the Thane thread I broke it down, point by point. The letter was a slap in the face.
Then we get to the end and the last face we see is Liara's. I think my heart finally shattered into so many pieces at this point that it will take a long time to repair. I want to thank Aislinn though, she fixed that, at least my Thane loving FemShep's get to see his face at the end instead of Liara's.
Underneath it all, I am upset and saddened that he apparently didn't matter, it hurt. But it wasn't just Thane, it was the fact that I realized after that Jacob's was butchered too. I didn't romance him, or anyone else for that fact it was always Thane but it was already stated, it was FemShep's romances that were treated this way. Why do none of Sheploo's LI's die with no option to save them? Why do none of his LI's cheat on him? Why is it only FemShep's? Why BW did you just prove to me that other than my damn money, that as a female gamer I am nothing to you. You created Thane specifically for us, so at one point you wanted to show us that we mattered to you as fans. But then again, maybe I am wrong, maybe you never meant to show us you cared about your females fans you only wanted us to THINK you did. Which is more heartbreaking than what happened to our FemShep's romances.
#6
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 03:07
Wahukeza
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If I could wrap a bow around the above two posts and send them to Bioware, I would.
To answer your question, I was angry. I was frustrated by how little I'd seen of him, how the relationship seemed to have taken at least a few steps back, how inevitable his death was as soon as he sent that message to the Normandy. How my Shep could mutter only an uninterested "how bad is it" after her LI was just stabbed right through the chest. And how distant she seemed as Thane was dying right in front of her.
But I wasn't furious until I returned to the ship and realised the smaller things. No Codex entry for Thane. No Paramour achievement. Nobody mentioning his death - while Garrus was standing in front of the memorial, I was just waiting to hear something, anything about Thane. Instead, I can't even remember but I think he said something to the effect of "at least noone else got hurt". Are you kidding me?
When my colonist Shepard seemed more distressed about this ****** little kid she never met from a planet she never visited than the man I'd imagined she loved, I wanted to quit the game and never return to it. For better or worse, I finished it, but... yeah.
It's all been said before. It was a huge kick in the gut. Hell, I wasn't even expecting him to survive ME3, but I was at least expecting more content, more discussions, more feeling than what we got.
Also Kaiden was dead so my Shep was forced to stay faithful even in death, while wondering just why James wouldn't bother going that extra step, and just how much content Garrus was getting. Good times.
To answer your question, I was angry. I was frustrated by how little I'd seen of him, how the relationship seemed to have taken at least a few steps back, how inevitable his death was as soon as he sent that message to the Normandy. How my Shep could mutter only an uninterested "how bad is it" after her LI was just stabbed right through the chest. And how distant she seemed as Thane was dying right in front of her.
But I wasn't furious until I returned to the ship and realised the smaller things. No Codex entry for Thane. No Paramour achievement. Nobody mentioning his death - while Garrus was standing in front of the memorial, I was just waiting to hear something, anything about Thane. Instead, I can't even remember but I think he said something to the effect of "at least noone else got hurt". Are you kidding me?
When my colonist Shepard seemed more distressed about this ****** little kid she never met from a planet she never visited than the man I'd imagined she loved, I wanted to quit the game and never return to it. For better or worse, I finished it, but... yeah.
It's all been said before. It was a huge kick in the gut. Hell, I wasn't even expecting him to survive ME3, but I was at least expecting more content, more discussions, more feeling than what we got.
Also Kaiden was dead so my Shep was forced to stay faithful even in death, while wondering just why James wouldn't bother going that extra step, and just how much content Garrus was getting. Good times.
Modifié par Wahukeza, 19 mai 2012 - 03:07 .
#7
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 03:36
mnomaha
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Wow, awesome posts all of you.
@Wahukeza, include yourself in that bow wrapping. It's not always the quantity, but the quality. Something bioware obviously get their heads around...
I don't think I can't add anything that hasn't been said. I only finished one game and that was enough for me. Was I angry? Yes. And sad, disappointed and completely astounded that bioware had managed to produce this crap and mark it as complete.
@Wahukeza, include yourself in that bow wrapping. It's not always the quantity, but the quality. Something bioware obviously get their heads around...
I don't think I can't add anything that hasn't been said. I only finished one game and that was enough for me. Was I angry? Yes. And sad, disappointed and completely astounded that bioware had managed to produce this crap and mark it as complete.
#8
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 03:58
Lucky Thirteen
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Rage cried for two hours, kept looking at achievement list in shock there was no paramour achievement. Raged I wouldn't see my favorite character anymore and it was only ten hours into the game. Raged that I had kept going back to try and talk to him for those ten hours and there was nothing but I'm dying, I'm dying, remember siha? I'm dying. It sucks, I don't want you to forget that I'm dying. That's important. Sorry, no sex, it's too difficult for me now, let's just talk.
Dying, dying, dying, miserable, painfully dying. But I'm totally cool with that cause there is nothing in the galaxy that can concern me right now, not even my son who only goddess knows what he is up to. Is he still even on the Citadel? Does he know we're together. Hell if I know, doesn't matter. Not even you worry me siha. You who is fighting the Reapers and can brutally die any day now and is probably under a hell of a lot of stress and could use some cuddles. These people I love are not important. Nothing else matters. The beauty of my death is all that matters. Did I tell you I'm dying? It sucks, siha.
Kaidan had plenty of original and happy crap to say every time I went back.
Rage quit the game for a day.
Cried another hour the next day when I attempted to start the game and found out Shepard get's that letter from the LOTSB, which was a nice touch, but then things went to hell again and I was cry raging again. No picture on Shepard's desk. No one gave a flying f*** he died or acted like he did anything important ever. Hacket gave all the credit to Shepard for stopping the assassination on the Salarian council member. Not even Garrus standing at the memorial wall had anything to say. Not even Cortez who had lost his husband had anything to say to sympathize with a Shepard who romanced Thane. Not even Shepard seemed to care.
Rage quit again.
Raged for a few days
Painfully started. Was so god damn happy Kaidan friendzoned my Shepard because if he hit on her I would have rage quit again. However I hear other Thanemancers suffered the awkwardness of their Shepard getting hit on so soon after Thane's death and having to turn Kaidan down. Then suffering more awkwardness of him being awkward and upset Shepard didn't just jump his bones. The other time I thought I was nearly going to rage quit the game for good was when Kai Leng went after Miranda and I thought she was going to die. Now I'm just bitter at the fact there was a way to stop her from dying. In fact there is a way to stop all male Shepard's LI from dying, they're all single and readily available and have no serious, tragic, so called "realistic" and "mature" story telling going on like Jacob and Thane.
Painfully finished the game. Raged
Waited a month
Attempted to replay to give the game a second chance.
Stopped at Thane's death
cried, raged
still raging.
Haven't touched the game since for a number of reasons besides Thane's death, just the entirety of ME3 sucks to me now, dialogue wheel sucks, Shepard auto dialogue repeating the same stuff no matter what I pick sucks, first four hours of linear story sucks, being forced to have Liara over Vega sucks, then being forced to have Vega over Liara sucks, everything is just a bunch of disjointed story telling with the goal of emotional shocking people but when you sit back and think about it, none of it makes much sense.
Just can't do it all over again. There is so very, very little enjoyment in this game.
But I digress, this is about my feelings of Thane's death.
Rage.
Dying, dying, dying, miserable, painfully dying. But I'm totally cool with that cause there is nothing in the galaxy that can concern me right now, not even my son who only goddess knows what he is up to. Is he still even on the Citadel? Does he know we're together. Hell if I know, doesn't matter. Not even you worry me siha. You who is fighting the Reapers and can brutally die any day now and is probably under a hell of a lot of stress and could use some cuddles. These people I love are not important. Nothing else matters. The beauty of my death is all that matters. Did I tell you I'm dying? It sucks, siha.
Kaidan had plenty of original and happy crap to say every time I went back.
Rage quit the game for a day.
Cried another hour the next day when I attempted to start the game and found out Shepard get's that letter from the LOTSB, which was a nice touch, but then things went to hell again and I was cry raging again. No picture on Shepard's desk. No one gave a flying f*** he died or acted like he did anything important ever. Hacket gave all the credit to Shepard for stopping the assassination on the Salarian council member. Not even Garrus standing at the memorial wall had anything to say. Not even Cortez who had lost his husband had anything to say to sympathize with a Shepard who romanced Thane. Not even Shepard seemed to care.
Rage quit again.
Raged for a few days
Painfully started. Was so god damn happy Kaidan friendzoned my Shepard because if he hit on her I would have rage quit again. However I hear other Thanemancers suffered the awkwardness of their Shepard getting hit on so soon after Thane's death and having to turn Kaidan down. Then suffering more awkwardness of him being awkward and upset Shepard didn't just jump his bones. The other time I thought I was nearly going to rage quit the game for good was when Kai Leng went after Miranda and I thought she was going to die. Now I'm just bitter at the fact there was a way to stop her from dying. In fact there is a way to stop all male Shepard's LI from dying, they're all single and readily available and have no serious, tragic, so called "realistic" and "mature" story telling going on like Jacob and Thane.
Painfully finished the game. Raged
Waited a month
Attempted to replay to give the game a second chance.
Stopped at Thane's death
cried, raged
still raging.
Haven't touched the game since for a number of reasons besides Thane's death, just the entirety of ME3 sucks to me now, dialogue wheel sucks, Shepard auto dialogue repeating the same stuff no matter what I pick sucks, first four hours of linear story sucks, being forced to have Liara over Vega sucks, then being forced to have Vega over Liara sucks, everything is just a bunch of disjointed story telling with the goal of emotional shocking people but when you sit back and think about it, none of it makes much sense.
Just can't do it all over again. There is so very, very little enjoyment in this game.
But I digress, this is about my feelings of Thane's death.
Rage.
#9
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 07:11
Julia_xo
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Btw, here is a visual aid courtesy of coldwetn0se:
Notice the bleeding heart.Ripped out and (eventually) stomped on. That's how the Thanemancers feel.
Sad thing is Thane doesn't mention Kolyat at all if romanced. He only mentions his son in passing if you didn't romance him.
He's not even significant enough to be mentioned in the guidebook. They weren't kidding when they said they forgot him. There is no end to my rage.
Painfully accurate.
Reapers are back and intent on wiping out organic life? Good luck with that. I'll just be sitting here enjoying my time dying. It's not as if I love or care for you or told you I'd be there for you. I'm content, which is the opposite of what I told you before going through the Omega 4-Relay. I have no responsibilities or fears. If you die horribly it won't bother me. I also won't mention my son because the only thing you really need to know about me is that I'm dying. That is all I am: a dying man who is dying.
The Shep I imported had romanced Kaidan in ME1 and Thane in ME2. I did not pick the "I'm sorry" option during the hospital visit when speaking to Kaidan. I picked the bottom option that went something like "You're right. Let me explain" Shep's exact words were: "Our fight on Horizon really threw me. You just shut me down."
Kaidan's response: "I know. I just couldn't believe my eyes. There you were ...alive. Can we ... can we just put the whole thing behind us? Please?"
He didn't take her hand and say he still loves her like he does if you say "I'm sorry" yet during the citadel outing he STILL brought up the supposed cheating and wanted to get back together despite the fact that Thane had just died. It was in such poor taste and I had to force myself not to resent Kaidan because it's not the character's fault the writers wrote this travesty.
I wanted to ragequit too but I felt like I needed to finish the game at least once to discuss it properly. It was a struggle just to get through that playthrough. I have not wanted to pick it back up since.
Yeah, you gotta love how only Thane and Jacob were saddled with such "realistic" and "mature" writing because cheating and death happen in real life, man, and games have to like educate us about it and stuff.
If this crap happened to other LIs the rage would be endless. Hey, Liara died when Cerberus attacked the ShadowBroker base. Oh and Tali hooked up with Kal'Reegar and is expecting his baby. This happens whether you romanced them or not and there is nothing you can do about it so.....
That would go over well. /sarcasm
Notice the bleeding heart.Ripped out and (eventually) stomped on. That's how the Thanemancers feel.
The Citadel Coup. Oh yes, the epitome of stupidness. Just why exactly was his ass there? If he was so damned concerned about his son that he could not join me on the Normandy then why the f**k is he trying to save a Salarian Councilor and not off ensuring his son is safe? Why? Oh yes, the fans of "Thane must die" needed this to be so.
Sad thing is Thane doesn't mention Kolyat at all if romanced. He only mentions his son in passing if you didn't romance him.
But I wasn't furious until I returned to the ship and realised the smaller things. No Codex entry for Thane. No Paramour achievement. Nobody mentioning his death - while Garrus was standing in front of the memorial, I was just waiting to hear something, anything about Thane. Instead, I can't even remember but I think he said something to the effect of "at least noone else got hurt". Are you kidding me?
He's not even significant enough to be mentioned in the guidebook. They weren't kidding when they said they forgot him. There is no end to my rage.
Dying, dying, dying, miserable, painfully dying. But I'm totally cool with that cause there is nothing in the galaxy that can concern me right now, not even my son who only goddess knows what he is up to. Is he still even on the Citadel? Does he know we're together. Hell if I know, doesn't matter. Not even you worry me siha. You who is fighting the Reapers and can brutally die any day now and is probably under a hell of a lot of stress and could use some cuddles. These people I love are not important. Nothing else matters. The beauty of my death is all that matters. Did I tell you I'm dying? It sucks, siha.
Painfully accurate.
Reapers are back and intent on wiping out organic life? Good luck with that. I'll just be sitting here enjoying my time dying. It's not as if I love or care for you or told you I'd be there for you. I'm content, which is the opposite of what I told you before going through the Omega 4-Relay. I have no responsibilities or fears. If you die horribly it won't bother me. I also won't mention my son because the only thing you really need to know about me is that I'm dying. That is all I am: a dying man who is dying.
Painfully started. Was so god damn happy Kaidan friendzoned my Shepard because if he hit on her I would have rage quit again. However I hear other Thanemancers suffered the awkwardness of their Shepard getting hit on so soon after Thane's death and having to turn Kaidan down. Then suffering more awkwardness of him being awkward and upset Shepard didn't just jump his bones.
The Shep I imported had romanced Kaidan in ME1 and Thane in ME2. I did not pick the "I'm sorry" option during the hospital visit when speaking to Kaidan. I picked the bottom option that went something like "You're right. Let me explain" Shep's exact words were: "Our fight on Horizon really threw me. You just shut me down."
Kaidan's response: "I know. I just couldn't believe my eyes. There you were ...alive. Can we ... can we just put the whole thing behind us? Please?"
He didn't take her hand and say he still loves her like he does if you say "I'm sorry" yet during the citadel outing he STILL brought up the supposed cheating and wanted to get back together despite the fact that Thane had just died. It was in such poor taste and I had to force myself not to resent Kaidan because it's not the character's fault the writers wrote this travesty.
I wanted to ragequit too but I felt like I needed to finish the game at least once to discuss it properly. It was a struggle just to get through that playthrough. I have not wanted to pick it back up since.
The other time I thought I was nearly going to rage quit the game for good was when Kai Leng went after Miranda and I thought she was going to die. Now I'm just bitter at the fact there was a way to stop her from dying. In fact there is a way to stop all male Shepard's LI from dying, they're all single and readily available and have no serious, tragic, so called "realistic" and "mature" story telling going on like Jacob and Thane.
Yeah, you gotta love how only Thane and Jacob were saddled with such "realistic" and "mature" writing because cheating and death happen in real life, man, and games have to like educate us about it and stuff.
If this crap happened to other LIs the rage would be endless. Hey, Liara died when Cerberus attacked the ShadowBroker base. Oh and Tali hooked up with Kal'Reegar and is expecting his baby. This happens whether you romanced them or not and there is nothing you can do about it so.....
That would go over well. /sarcasm
#10
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 08:03
Padt
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Hmmm.
Thane is not my chief love interest. I feel compelled to say that upfront. I also feel compelled to state that I don't necessarily have an issue with the idea of him dying, even if his death may not be prevented under certain circumstances in the same way that, say, Mordin's can be. All that said, Thane does rank among my five favorite love interests in the series, and is also one of my top two male love interests (along with Garrus). I feel his ME2 romance is one of the most heartfelt, textured and compellingly written from that game, and may well be one of the best executed relationships that I've seen in a BioWare game.
So, so I'm kind of a big Thane person, is what I'm trying to say.
So with all that out of the way, I feel as though I can't understate how very, very bothersome it is that there seems to be little purpose to Thane's presence in the game beyond fighting Kai Leng and getting skewered. I mean...hell, I'm not even speaking about the romance at this juncture. Thane and Shepard barely speak three words to each other before Thane runs off to face Kai Leng on the Citadel. Their one, whole conversation in the hospital essentially boils down to some token "hey, nice to see yous" before Thane goes off to die. It is so very transparent that the chief purpose of Thane being included in the game was to showcase that "assassin vs. assassin" confrontation, marginalizing practically everything else regarding his character (his friendship or romance with Shepard, say) in the process. The interactions with him are so meager, his screen time so insignificant, it really, really feels as though he was only included in the game to die.
And that is...well, very annoying. And it's annoying how transparent the whole thing is. Because it gives the impression that little thought or consideration went into his presentation in the game, beyond the cool factor of having the two big-name assassins in the series face off and the emotional gut punch of having him die. This is probably going to sound dramatic, but to me it feels as though he's being used and discarded, not treated with fairness, and this is all underlined by the fact that seemingly nobody on the Normandy remembers he existed at all after he dies. The former squadmate and Normandy resident (and potential lover to Commander Shepard) who essentially gave his life to preserve what little political stability remains in the galaxy. And...nobody remembers him. It's crazy.
Like I said, I don't necessarily have an issue with Thane passing over the course of the game, or even with the fact that he cannot be saved. It's just...I feel he deserved a at least bit more than this. He deserved to be treated with a little more consideration and nuance, as a character, not just as a tool to deliver us a cool fight scene and a gut-wrenching death scene. A few more conversations, a little more interaction, anything. Anything that obfuscates the transparency of what they meant for him.
I don't know if any of that even makes sense, and if not, I apologize in advance. I'm not exactly at my most lucid right now. But giving it some consideration over the last several days, I find that I really am somewhat frustrated with the way most things related to Thane played out in ME3. It isn't really a case of "Thane deserved a better ending", in the style of those banners that I see people use here and there. It's more like Thane deserved better, at least a little bit better, period.
Thane is not my chief love interest. I feel compelled to say that upfront. I also feel compelled to state that I don't necessarily have an issue with the idea of him dying, even if his death may not be prevented under certain circumstances in the same way that, say, Mordin's can be. All that said, Thane does rank among my five favorite love interests in the series, and is also one of my top two male love interests (along with Garrus). I feel his ME2 romance is one of the most heartfelt, textured and compellingly written from that game, and may well be one of the best executed relationships that I've seen in a BioWare game.
So, so I'm kind of a big Thane person, is what I'm trying to say.
So with all that out of the way, I feel as though I can't understate how very, very bothersome it is that there seems to be little purpose to Thane's presence in the game beyond fighting Kai Leng and getting skewered. I mean...hell, I'm not even speaking about the romance at this juncture. Thane and Shepard barely speak three words to each other before Thane runs off to face Kai Leng on the Citadel. Their one, whole conversation in the hospital essentially boils down to some token "hey, nice to see yous" before Thane goes off to die. It is so very transparent that the chief purpose of Thane being included in the game was to showcase that "assassin vs. assassin" confrontation, marginalizing practically everything else regarding his character (his friendship or romance with Shepard, say) in the process. The interactions with him are so meager, his screen time so insignificant, it really, really feels as though he was only included in the game to die.
And that is...well, very annoying. And it's annoying how transparent the whole thing is. Because it gives the impression that little thought or consideration went into his presentation in the game, beyond the cool factor of having the two big-name assassins in the series face off and the emotional gut punch of having him die. This is probably going to sound dramatic, but to me it feels as though he's being used and discarded, not treated with fairness, and this is all underlined by the fact that seemingly nobody on the Normandy remembers he existed at all after he dies. The former squadmate and Normandy resident (and potential lover to Commander Shepard) who essentially gave his life to preserve what little political stability remains in the galaxy. And...nobody remembers him. It's crazy.
Like I said, I don't necessarily have an issue with Thane passing over the course of the game, or even with the fact that he cannot be saved. It's just...I feel he deserved a at least bit more than this. He deserved to be treated with a little more consideration and nuance, as a character, not just as a tool to deliver us a cool fight scene and a gut-wrenching death scene. A few more conversations, a little more interaction, anything. Anything that obfuscates the transparency of what they meant for him.
I don't know if any of that even makes sense, and if not, I apologize in advance. I'm not exactly at my most lucid right now. But giving it some consideration over the last several days, I find that I really am somewhat frustrated with the way most things related to Thane played out in ME3. It isn't really a case of "Thane deserved a better ending", in the style of those banners that I see people use here and there. It's more like Thane deserved better, at least a little bit better, period.
Modifié par Padt, 19 mai 2012 - 08:15 .
#11
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 08:13
Digitalis32
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I felt saddened by Thane's demise, but that prayer at the end was certainly touching...I didn't have any romantic intentions with Thane but I thought he was an awesome character all the same - and despite being terminally ill he was able to hold off Kai Leng .The fact that he dies in no way diminishes his awesomeness for me.
"That assassin should be embarrassed. A terminally ill drell managed to stop him from reaching his target"
"That assassin should be embarrassed. A terminally ill drell managed to stop him from reaching his target"
Modifié par Digitalis32, 19 mai 2012 - 08:14 .
#12
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 08:17
ThatDancingTurian
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I'm not sure why this subject needs yet another topic, especially since you ask for only the opinions of a niche group of forum-goers. You could easily find the answer to this question in Thane's support thread or one of the many off-shoots. Just sayin'.
#13
Guest_Squeegee83_*
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 09:35
Guest_Squeegee83_*
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i'm slightly annoyed right now.
Modifié par Squeegee83, 19 mai 2012 - 09:36 .
#14
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 06:03
Julia_xo
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Padt wrote...
Hmmm.
Thane is not my chief love interest. I feel compelled to say that upfront. I also feel compelled to state that I don't necessarily have an issue with the idea of him dying, even if his death may not be prevented under certain circumstances in the same way that, say, Mordin's can be. All that said, Thane does rank among my five favorite love interests in the series, and is also one of my top two male love interests (along with Garrus). I feel his ME2 romance is one of the most heartfelt, textured and compellingly written from that game, and may well be one of the best executed relationships that I've seen in a BioWare game.
So, so I'm kind of a big Thane person, is what I'm trying to say.
So with all that out of the way, I feel as though I can't understate how very, very bothersome it is that there seems to be little purpose to Thane's presence in the game beyond fighting Kai Leng and getting skewered. I mean...hell, I'm not even speaking about the romance at this juncture. Thane and Shepard barely speak three words to each other before Thane runs off to face Kai Leng on the Citadel. Their one, whole conversation in the hospital essentially boils down to some token "hey, nice to see yous" before Thane goes off to die. It is so very transparent that the chief purpose of Thane being included in the game was to showcase that "assassin vs. assassin" confrontation, marginalizing practically everything else regarding his character (his friendship or romance with Shepard, say) in the process. The interactions with him are so meager, his screen time so insignificant, it really, really feels as though he was only included in the game to die.
And that is...well, very annoying. And it's annoying how transparent the whole thing is. Because it gives the impression that little thought or consideration went into his presentation in the game, beyond the cool factor of having the two big-name assassins in the series face off and the emotional gut punch of having him die. This is probably going to sound dramatic, but to me it feels as though he's being used and discarded, not treated with fairness, and this is all underlined by the fact that seemingly nobody on the Normandy remembers he existed at all after he dies. The former squadmate and Normandy resident (and potential lover to Commander Shepard) who essentially gave his life to preserve what little political stability remains in the galaxy. And...nobody remembers him. It's crazy.
Like I said, I don't necessarily have an issue with Thane passing over the course of the game, or even with the fact that he cannot be saved. It's just...I feel he deserved a at least bit more than this. He deserved to be treated with a little more consideration and nuance, as a character, not just as a tool to deliver us a cool fight scene and a gut-wrenching death scene. A few more conversations, a little more interaction, anything. Anything that obfuscates the transparency of what they meant for him.
I don't know if any of that even makes sense, and if not, I apologize in advance. I'm not exactly at my most lucid right now. But giving it some consideration over the last several days, I find that I really am somewhat frustrated with the way most things related to Thane played out in ME3. It isn't really a case of "Thane deserved a better ending", in the style of those banners that I see people use here and there. It's more like Thane deserved better, at least a little bit better, period.
You make perfect sense. I think what hurts is that they stripped the character of so much that made him interesting. All that was left was the death stuff because he was no longer a three dimensional character but a one note tool to be used as fodder for Kai Leng.
In the end nothing the player did mattered. Whether you failed his loyalty mission or helped him, whether you romanced him or you didn't. It's all the same. The relationship we built had no impact. Thane's only purpose was to die. It felt so cheap. It even sort of taints the climax of his ME2 romance when he went to Shepard upset to the point of tears and admitted that he fears his death and it's because he has things he wants to live for.
That scene is just rendered meaningless in ME3. In ME3 he's perfectly at peace. Nothing troubles him. His only role is his impending death and it's all he's permitted to talk about. They did the character a huge disservice.
And I still wonder what the point was of hinting he had an option that could prolong his life? Why show that if nothing was to come of it? I guess they were just covering their bases?
And if they were going to force his death why not make it happen later in the game, why not flesh the character out a bit more before it happens? Why not give it weight? Instead it felt meaningless. Pointless. Emotionless.
Modifié par Julia_xo, 19 mai 2012 - 07:05 .
#15
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 06:58
Visii
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Padt wrote...
Hmmm.
Thane is not my chief love interest. I feel compelled to say that upfront. I also feel compelled to state that I don't necessarily have an issue with the idea of him dying, even if his death may not be prevented under certain circumstances in the same way that, say, Mordin's can be. All that said, Thane does rank among my five favorite love interests in the series, and is also one of my top two male love interests (along with Garrus). I feel his ME2 romance is one of the most heartfelt, textured and compellingly written from that game, and may well be one of the best executed relationships that I've seen in a BioWare game.
So, so I'm kind of a big Thane person, is what I'm trying to say.
So with all that out of the way, I feel as though I can't understate how very, very bothersome it is that there seems to be little purpose to Thane's presence in the game beyond fighting Kai Leng and getting skewered. I mean...hell, I'm not even speaking about the romance at this juncture. Thane and Shepard barely speak three words to each other before Thane runs off to face Kai Leng on the Citadel. Their one, whole conversation in the hospital essentially boils down to some token "hey, nice to see yous" before Thane goes off to die. It is so very transparent that the chief purpose of Thane being included in the game was to showcase that "assassin vs. assassin" confrontation, marginalizing practically everything else regarding his character (his friendship or romance with Shepard, say) in the process. The interactions with him are so meager, his screen time so insignificant, it really, really feels as though he was only included in the game to die.
And that is...well, very annoying. And it's annoying how transparent the whole thing is. Because it gives the impression that little thought or consideration went into his presentation in the game, beyond the cool factor of having the two big-name assassins in the series face off and the emotional gut punch of having him die. This is probably going to sound dramatic, but to me it feels as though he's being used and discarded, not treated with fairness, and this is all underlined by the fact that seemingly nobody on the Normandy remembers he existed at all after he dies. The former squadmate and Normandy resident (and potential lover to Commander Shepard) who essentially gave his life to preserve what little political stability remains in the galaxy. And...nobody remembers him. It's crazy.
Like I said, I don't necessarily have an issue with Thane passing over the course of the game, or even with the fact that he cannot be saved. It's just...I feel he deserved a at least bit more than this. He deserved to be treated with a little more consideration and nuance, as a character, not just as a tool to deliver us a cool fight scene and a gut-wrenching death scene. A few more conversations, a little more interaction, anything. Anything that obfuscates the transparency of what they meant for him.
I don't know if any of that even makes sense, and if not, I apologize in advance. I'm not exactly at my most lucid right now. But giving it some consideration over the last several days, I find that I really am somewhat frustrated with the way most things related to Thane played out in ME3. It isn't really a case of "Thane deserved a better ending", in the style of those banners that I see people use here and there. It's more like Thane deserved better, at least a little bit better, period.
Awesome post. Mind if I save it for future reference?
#16
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 07:32
giftfish
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@Julia_xo & utaker1988:
You have both articulated my thoughts exactly. Thanks for taking the time to write up your posts. I hope Bioware actually takes the time to read them, and takes steps to remedy their mistakes.
My worst fear is that they will do nothing with it. They'll hide behind the excuse of "writer's-artistic-integrity-they-can't-make-mistakes", and nothing will be changed. Unfortunately, unlike the ending, I don't really see how they could change it with a DLC. It seems like it would require a patch, as it would need to alter existing content, throughout the entire game, in order to achieve any type of consistency with what happened in ME2 (see the many things referenced in the above posts).
Not to mention, if a player didn't complete Arrival, Shep shouldn't have been in lockdown for the past 6 months, in which case, her and Thane's relationship should have evolved even more. I find it very annoying that the ramifications from the Arrival storyline are forced on the player in ME3, despite the fact that Arrival was optional ME2 DLC. Similarly, in ME2, the game "defaults" to Shep allowing the death of the Citadel Council from ME1, however, this was within the main storyline of ME1, and was, therefore, unavoidable.
I've said this elsewhere on the forums, but I'll reiterate here for emphasis: Bioware's treatment of Thane's romance, and most of the romantic/plantonic relationships in ME3 were poor, to say the least. I'd much rather them have taken another year (or two, or three, or...) to release the game and given us a better product. Considering the poor writing of character relationships, the endings, plot holes/inconsistancies, requiring Origin/merging account fiasco, AND trying to force multi-player on the community for what is historically a single-player game, Bioware/EA have ensured that I will no longer purchase their products.
You have both articulated my thoughts exactly. Thanks for taking the time to write up your posts. I hope Bioware actually takes the time to read them, and takes steps to remedy their mistakes.
My worst fear is that they will do nothing with it. They'll hide behind the excuse of "writer's-artistic-integrity-they-can't-make-mistakes", and nothing will be changed. Unfortunately, unlike the ending, I don't really see how they could change it with a DLC. It seems like it would require a patch, as it would need to alter existing content, throughout the entire game, in order to achieve any type of consistency with what happened in ME2 (see the many things referenced in the above posts).
Not to mention, if a player didn't complete Arrival, Shep shouldn't have been in lockdown for the past 6 months, in which case, her and Thane's relationship should have evolved even more. I find it very annoying that the ramifications from the Arrival storyline are forced on the player in ME3, despite the fact that Arrival was optional ME2 DLC. Similarly, in ME2, the game "defaults" to Shep allowing the death of the Citadel Council from ME1, however, this was within the main storyline of ME1, and was, therefore, unavoidable.
I've said this elsewhere on the forums, but I'll reiterate here for emphasis: Bioware's treatment of Thane's romance, and most of the romantic/plantonic relationships in ME3 were poor, to say the least. I'd much rather them have taken another year (or two, or three, or...) to release the game and given us a better product. Considering the poor writing of character relationships, the endings, plot holes/inconsistancies, requiring Origin/merging account fiasco, AND trying to force multi-player on the community for what is historically a single-player game, Bioware/EA have ensured that I will no longer purchase their products.
#17
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 07:57
DirtySHISN0
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Many walls of text that i didn't read.
We've known he was going to die since we met him, but then again we've known the game was going to end since it started.....and look how that turned out.
Mass Effect 3 a game where some choices are more equal than others.
We've known he was going to die since we met him, but then again we've known the game was going to end since it started.....and look how that turned out.
Mass Effect 3 a game where some choices are more equal than others.
#18
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 08:09
Twilight_Princess
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Op, it’s the actual romance in it’s entirety that has romancers mad, not just that one thing. ALL OF IT. Just like how it’s not just shepard dying in the endings that have people so mad and upset. In fact, Thane’s romance subplot is so broken (yes broken like how the ending to the game makes no sense) that it actually insulted me. It was as if bioware chuckled and told me "Nah, your LI choice wasn't worth remembering till the last minute...no effort or continuity for you!"
But even that isn’t what angered me most OP. Sure the forced death, poor writing and tacked on romance was bad enough but I was more shocked at the amount of players who DIDN'T romance Thane tell those that did that his "romance was fitting". Imagine someone who doesn't like or even play mass effect tell a mass effect fan how the ending of the game was fitting and added “What did you expect? A Disney ending? They shouldn't give you more options or change anything so DEAL WITH IT”.
Such a person clearly doesn’t know what the **** they’re talking about am I right? Such a person comes across rather ignorant correct? So why are there SO MANY non-romancers of Thane that chuck in their 2 cents about a romance they aren’t invested in and have NO CLUE about? I’m no psychic but eventually OP you’re gonna have a drive-by poster who will do the following (even though this topic is clearly about the ROMANCE not the friendship path)
1.Say they didn’t romance Thane themselves BUUUUUUUUT (
)2.Liked how he went out fighting/liked the prayer etc (Which is fine to say! But then it’s inevitably followed by....)
3.Thinks romancers should have “expected this” (What? the bad writing and retcon? Uh...no) and to change his current (broken) romance path in any way would be unrealistic/bad for his character . Deal with it etc
It’s frustrating how this type of commenter drowns out the valid criticisms and issues romancers have to such a degree that we will probably never get our broken subplot fixed because of it. You can tell them over and over and over what the problems are but it goes in one ear and out the other. They like how Thane died, END OF. Even though our requests and protests will in no way affect their games since we only want the romance fixed not the friendship path! Being upset that he died is far too simplistic an explanation to describe why thanemancers feel betrayed. Just like how describing retakers as “people who are upset that shepard died” is too simplistic.
Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 20 mai 2012 - 12:32 .
#19
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 10:12
Padt
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Julia_xo wrote...
You make perfect sense.
*snip*
Visii wrote...
Awesome post. Mind if I save it for future reference?
Thank you and thank you. And yes, by all means feel free to use that post for anything you like.
#20
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 12:19
stwu
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Like how most people feel about this game: it's a horrible betrayal.
#21
Guest_Squeegee83_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 04:37
Guest_Squeegee83_*
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*coughs* all of you leaving your feelings here... need to join my group and leave your posts in my topic. so i can send it to bioware. yes... that means stop talking to yourselves and give this to someone who can make the Bioware Gods read it.
group is in my sig.
group is in my sig.
#22
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 05:03
mnomaha
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If there are bioware gods...I am moving to atheism.
#23
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 05:10
coldwetn0se
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^*giggle/snort* I'm such a juvenile...
#24
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 05:30
mnomaha
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@Hyrule_Gal...you go girl! Awesome post!
@stwu...that is the word I have been searching for...BETRAYAL. Yes, I feel betrayed.
@Coldi...duh.
@stwu...that is the word I have been searching for...BETRAYAL. Yes, I feel betrayed.
@Coldi...duh.
#25
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 05:40
Julia_xo
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giftfish wrote...
My worst fear is that they will do nothing with it. They'll hide behind the excuse of "writer's-artistic-integrity-they-can't-make-mistakes", and nothing will be changed. Unfortunately, unlike the ending, I don't really see how they could change it with a DLC. It seems like it would require a patch, as it would need to alter existing content, throughout the entire game, in order to achieve any type of consistency with what happened in ME2 (see the many things referenced in the above posts).
I figure it'd be something similar to Liara in ME2. You could visit her in her office on Illium whenever you wanted once Illium unlocked after completeing the Horizon mission. When the LotSB DLC was added it was initiated as an extra bit of dialogue on her existing dialogue wheel.
Similarly, they could just add a bit of dialogue to Thane's existing dialogue wheel to activate the DLC content. It would only be available after Priority: Palaven and before Priority: Citadel II.
Considering Thane has very little death aftermath content they wouldn't need to account for much for those who choose a save option via DLC. They'd just need to make sure his name doesn't end up on the memorial wall, remove lines from Shepard's dreams, replace the renegade interrupt dialogue when Shepard kills Kai Leng and (if romanced) not send the recycled Lotsb letter. Oh, and I think Kai Leng has a line on Thessia in which he trash talks Thane so get rid of that, too.
Lord knows if BioWare will actually do it but I definitely think it's possible! Let Thane get the lung transplant they hinted at in LotsB or maybe Shepard gets intel that the Hanar have developed a breakthrough in their research. Time to investigate.
The Kai Leng fight could still even happen, perhaps. Except Thane would be able to surive the stab wound or possibly even drive Kai Leng off with help from Shepard/squadmates, depending on whether certain DLC criteria is met.
giftfish wrote...
Not to mention, if a player didn't complete Arrival, Shep shouldn't have been in lockdown for the past 6 months, in which case, her and Thane's relationship should have evolved even more. I find it very annoying that the ramifications from the Arrival storyline are forced on the player in ME3, despite the fact that Arrival was optional
ME2 DLC. Similarly, in ME2, the game "defaults" to Shep allowing the death of the Citadel Council from ME1, however, this was within the main storyline of ME1, and was, therefore, unavoidable.
I'm with you about Arrival. That DLC was a waste of time since it's just assumed you did it even if you didn't. The only thing it added to my playthrough from what I remember is an extra bit of dialogue from Anderson at the beginning of the game. I guess they made Arrival canon to force Shepard to be on Earth and back in the arms of the Alliance. It was also a convenient way to seperate Shepard from the ME2 crew and force her back with the ME1 crew. I absolutely hate the six months in lock-down situation.
Hyrule_Gal wrote...
It’s frustrating how this type of commenter drowns out the valid criticisms and issues romancers have to such a degree that we will probably never get our broken subplot fixed because of it. You can tell them over and over and over what the problems are but it goes in one ear and out the other. They like how Thane died, END OF. Even though our requests and protests will in no way affect their games since we only want the romance fixed not the
friendship path! Being upset that he died is far too simplistic an explanation to describe why thanemancers feel betrayed. Just like how describing retakers as “people who are upset that shepard died” is too simplistic.
Well said. It's just one more incentive for us to keep trying to make our voices heard regardless of what others say. We're only asking for a choice.
Modifié par Julia_xo, 20 mai 2012 - 05:42 .
