What is so sad for me is my characters always fall for him because he is so charming and funny and sweet even though I know where it will end up.
Dam Alistair
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gammle
, déc. 10 2009 01:16
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#77
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 11:31
Sabriana
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frostajulie wrote...
What is so sad for me is my characters always fall for him because he is so charming and funny and sweet even though I know where it will end up.
Isn't that the truth. The three faces of Eve have nothing on him. It's too bad, really. Up until the landsmeet he's a woman's dream, but then sh.. happens. Quite psychotic, a complete switch-over.
The writers did quite an admirable job. The assassin is a turn off in the beginning. Zevran can't even compare on the relationship level with Alistair. But then the landsmeet happens, and the elf assassin outmans the Grey Warden Alistair in every way. In my opinion anyway. Kudos to the writers.
#78
Posté 15 décembre 2009 - 12:31
Vormaerin
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I can understand killing Loghain, though I think its a bad move. But in my play through, it was nuts for Alistair to be blindsided by my sparing him. I spared Jowan. I spared the blood mage girl in the tower. I spared Sten and Zevran. Made good use of all of them (except the girl), too. I forced Zathrian to admit the good of the Dalish outweighed his hatred of the humans. I promised Anora and Cauthrien I'd be merciful.
And then two of the three Gray Wardens present think turning him into an asset is a good idea, but that's not good enough. Better to let everyone die a horrible death than fight beside Loghain. It makes me want to tear him a new one on the spot.
Loghain deserves death for his crimes. So does most of the party. Sten, Zevran, Leilana, Morrigan, Shale, Oghren, and my character are all criminals guilty of murder. Wynne is arguably an abomination, for that matter. Duncan's a murderer, too.
I spare Loghain because
1) All the evidence is that he's a psychopatriot, not a treacherous person. Howe I could never trust. Loghain I can trust to do whatever it takes to save Ferelden. He betrays Cailan because he thinks Cailan is going to ruin Ferelden. His judgement at this point in his life is terrible, but then I'm not leaving him in command.....
2) Even without knowing about the killing the archdemon thing (which I didn't on the first play through), its obvious that he's a very skilled warrior and we need more warriors.
3) I was never under the impression the Gray Wardens were paladins. I looked at them as equivalent to the Legion of the Dead. Jory and Alistair are just wrong about it being "an honor" to join in the sense they mean.
4) Loghain has a lot of support. He's got the largest remaining army and allies in the Landsmeet even if you do the best possible job convicting him. Coopting him means those guys are on board, not dragging their feet or actively resisting.
He deserves to die, but its only blind hatred that insists he has to die on the executioner's block. Joining the Gray Wardens is a death sentence too. As I told Anora after the joining: "Don't expect him to live too long".
And then two of the three Gray Wardens present think turning him into an asset is a good idea, but that's not good enough. Better to let everyone die a horrible death than fight beside Loghain. It makes me want to tear him a new one on the spot.
Loghain deserves death for his crimes. So does most of the party. Sten, Zevran, Leilana, Morrigan, Shale, Oghren, and my character are all criminals guilty of murder. Wynne is arguably an abomination, for that matter. Duncan's a murderer, too.
I spare Loghain because
1) All the evidence is that he's a psychopatriot, not a treacherous person. Howe I could never trust. Loghain I can trust to do whatever it takes to save Ferelden. He betrays Cailan because he thinks Cailan is going to ruin Ferelden. His judgement at this point in his life is terrible, but then I'm not leaving him in command.....
2) Even without knowing about the killing the archdemon thing (which I didn't on the first play through), its obvious that he's a very skilled warrior and we need more warriors.
3) I was never under the impression the Gray Wardens were paladins. I looked at them as equivalent to the Legion of the Dead. Jory and Alistair are just wrong about it being "an honor" to join in the sense they mean.
4) Loghain has a lot of support. He's got the largest remaining army and allies in the Landsmeet even if you do the best possible job convicting him. Coopting him means those guys are on board, not dragging their feet or actively resisting.
He deserves to die, but its only blind hatred that insists he has to die on the executioner's block. Joining the Gray Wardens is a death sentence too. As I told Anora after the joining: "Don't expect him to live too long".
Modifié par Vormaerin, 15 décembre 2009 - 12:32 .
#79
Posté 20 décembre 2009 - 01:58
Personaaddict
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Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I know people keep saying that the Grey Warden are not paladins (but given how zealous some paladins can be,, that is debatable), but why do so many people insist on the exact opposite? Tehy look at Grey Wardens like friggin blackguards.
No, the GW's won't do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. They are not warriors of pure good, but they aren't depraved, moralless bastards either. They have their standards and they have their own lines in the sand.
actually I was thinking them to be Grey Guards actually xD not Paladins or Blackguards, but I am sure you heard of em yes?
They are still lawful in everyway, but take steps beyond the written law to complete whatever their job was. I dunno I find it more assuring that the job needs to get done right, not half assed good and end up leaving status quo restored and the baddies just coming back for more later.
#80
Posté 20 décembre 2009 - 02:44
Vicious
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Grey Wardens definetly remind me of the Legion of the Dead. All they need are matching sets of badass black armor with Gryphons on the chest. Anyway I think Alistair was wrong just like Jory was wrong. It's not an 'honor' to join the Grey Wardens, not the way they mean where it's like becoming a knight or something. It's simply something that's necessary in Thedas.
#81
Posté 20 décembre 2009 - 02:57
ejoslin
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Skellimancer wrote...
No different than a human noble origin character wanting Howe dead.. no difference at all.
HUGE difference. I'm not sure why everyone equates the death of people you've known 6 months due to treachery in battle the same as the slaughter of your entire family. And to give Ali credit, if your noble points out that his/her entire family has been murdered, he apologizes for the way he has been going on. Plus, as a noble, you have lost more than your family, you've lost your lands, your titles, your entire life. If you want to get your lands back, you have no choice but to kill Howe.
#82
Posté 20 décembre 2009 - 03:08
ejoslin
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Sabriana wrote...
frostajulie wrote...
What is so sad for me is my characters always fall for him because he is so charming and funny and sweet even though I know where it will end up.
Isn't that the truth. The three faces of Eve have nothing on him. It's too bad, really. Up until the landsmeet he's a woman's dream, but then sh.. happens. Quite psychotic, a complete switch-over.
The writers did quite an admirable job. The assassin is a turn off in the beginning. Zevran can't even compare on the relationship level with Alistair. But then the landsmeet happens, and the elf assassin outmans the Grey Warden Alistair in every way. In my opinion anyway. Kudos to the writers.
I don't think Ali really is a woman's dream. He's gorgeous, athletic, a voice which is worth falling in love over, but if you look beyond the pretty words, there's a lot of weakness there. It's pretty obvious (at least to me) that he's in love with the PC's strength; he has transfered the worship of Duncan over to the PC. It's very easy to disappoint him by being not-perfect. But it's also very easy to overlook what should be apparent in hindsight -- I think many women do this in actuality as well. But Ali and the PC are not a couple of equals. I found it interesting that when discussing lamppost licking (grin), Ali has more approval to the PC licking the lamppost once than if she says she never licked one. He wants someone who will guide him in ALL matters.
But the romance with him IS great up until he is at Adore (I wanted to punch him after he started greeting my PC with "my command is your desire"). I like how he finally does man up if the PC doesn't push things. I just wished that he would be more accepting of the PC's faults. Between his and Wynne's expectations, I'm not sure how the PC doesn't crack and go psycho on everyone.
