139 réponses à ce sujet

[Katamariguy]

I mean, he sounded like he had some good ideas. Not ethical ideas, but good ones. I didn't immediately shout "Indoctrinated!" when he proposed to control the reapers. But no, instead I have to deny him, and instantly assume he's indoctrinated, even though it sounds like a perfectly valid idea.

To add insult to injury, Shepard has the option to control the reapers, right after insisting to TIM that the reapers cannot be controlled! <_<

[Blacklash93]

You might be right, if it weren't for the facts that TIM's research was not even remotely far enough to go about controlling Reapers (even though he pretended it was), almost everything he was doing benefited the Reapers, and how all over the place he was with his strategy to supposedly dominate the Repaers. Oh, and his only defense when his methods and goals were criticized were "lol I'm morally grey you can't understand lol".

That was not the TIM from ME2.

[Katamariguy]

Still, it ticks me off that we're given the choice to control the reapers anyway.

[silentassassin264]

Because of god awful writing. Cerberus being the villains was incredibly forced and makes no sense whatsoever. It especially doesn't make sense for the Illusive Troll to end up indoctrinated when the level prior to that explicitly explains that they found out how to control Reapers with a counter frequency. Even with Reaper tech jammed into his skull, Illusive Troll should have still been able to play the frequency and stay under his own control.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 19 mai 2012 - 09:27 .

[Mykel54]

I think it is because joining TIM would have required a new path in the game, much like in the witcher 2, and the devs weren´t willing to put that effort in.

The game is just too linear to account for such things, even renegade shepard feels awkard many times, because paragon shepard just fits better in how the story folds.

TIM was also made a obvious villain from the start, by making him use reaper tech on his own troops, making them husk-like. Yet they could have simply had certain prototype implants (based on reaper tech if you like) that enhanced their abilities, linking to the ME1 idea of searching for super soldiers. But i guess making them brainless mooks makes them works better as your enemy.

If you compare the codex entry of ME2 and ME3 about cerberus, you will see a change: in ME3 it says that cerberus wants to advance human interests, regarding the costs to non humans AND humans. In ME2 it was just to non humans. So TIM went from an organization that values humanity but is ruthless about the way they go, to another that doesn´t even care about his own cerberus members (remember in ME2 "cerberus is humanity" line?). It´s just sad

[Abreu Road]

To keep the conversation high level

Modifié par Abreu Road, 19 mai 2012 - 09:45 .

[TK EL_]

The singular reason is that the eventual bs 11th hour problem that was presented to Shepard to solve that can possibly warrant the decision of controlling the reapers was never known to Illusive man hence, their motivations are completely different

[Michale_Jackson]

Because any more choices would have broke the game's linear direction, and required the dev team to add several more months of work to the game and miss their planned vacation with the earnings they could make if they release the game as-is unpolished, poorly written and broken.

Modifié par Michale_Jackson, 19 mai 2012 - 10:05 .

[Amaterasuomikami]

Can a mod please move this to the SPOILERS forum?

[Kajan451]

Katamariguy wrote...

Still, it ticks me off that we're given the choice to control the reapers anyway.

1) Shepard could be a hypocrit. There is nothing wrong with arguing it and selecting it a moment later. If, out of all the options the control option is the most likely for Shepard, it doesn't mean he shouldn't argue the was TIM does go about it. TIM is, even if you discount the black oily tentacles in your vision, which is a sign of TIMs modified Indoctrination influancing you, still a power hungry megalomaniac. TIMs version of Indoctrination does not work. Simple as that. Doesn't mean the Architects Version suffers from the same fate and sends Neo into some endless spiral of ever repeating circles.

2) If they'd remove the control ending people would be disappointed. Not only that but really then you'd get instead of 3 unlikely choices only 2 choices which are basically Become a Cyborg or Genocide. I think there would be quite alot people who would take offense if there wouldn't be at least an option of not forcing stuff on people. And the only option offering that is Control.

[res27772]

Katamariguy wrote...

Why are We Forced to Disagree with Illusive Man?

Because choice, apparently, is an illusion itself, we have no choice in the end but to do what 'they', or fate if you will, demands of us.

Kind of poetic given the Terminator undertones in ME... they try to fight the future, change their fate, but in the end, it all goes fubar anyway.

[ZombieGambit]

Why are we forced to fight the Reapers or become a Spectre in the first place? Because you can't have a proper plot if you leave every choice open to players.

[res27772]

ZombieGambit wrote...

Why are we forced to fight the Reapers or become a Spectre in the first place? Because you can't have a proper plot if you leave every choice open to players.

Maybe, but it would've been very cool to be able to choose between working for the good guys (Alliance) and bad guys (Cerberus) right from the beginning, or at least from ME2... it'd be neat to do the missions, esp. in 3, from the Cerberus standpoint.

[BatmanPWNS]

The funniest autodialogue moment is when Shepard says "You sacrificed too much" even if Shepard himself is a full renegade.

[Kel212]

res27772 wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

Why are we forced to fight the Reapers or become a Spectre in the first place? Because you can't have a proper plot if you leave every choice open to players.

Maybe, but it would've been very cool to be able to choose between working for the good guys (Alliance) and bad guys (Cerberus) right from the beginning, or at least from ME2... it'd be neat to do the missions, esp. in 3, from the Cerberus standpoint.

The problem is, that amount of extra content would have probably required a whole other disc, a whole other year of development time, and a different set of squadmates (I can't see any current party member working with Cerberus given their current methods. Even Javik says the reason why his people lost is because some thought they could control the Reapers). 

[jojon2se]

Compensation for being forced to go along with him in ME2?

Modifié par jojon2se, 19 mai 2012 - 12:12 .

[LOLandStuff]

Wait, are you saying you want a choice?
What's that?

[napushenko]

cerberus were allways villains you idiots. you just had overlapping goals in second part. which were both different in their own way. and you would side with man who makes juice out of humans intestines ?
and you really think bioware should tailor suit their game just because you want to side with cerberus. they should create new 40 hours different plot and levels and everything just so precious you will be happy ?

[napushenko]

Michale_Jackson wrote...

Because any more choices would have broke the game's linear direction, and required the dev team to add several more months of work to the game and miss their planned vacation with the earnings they could make if they release the game as-is unpolished, poorly written and broken.

tell me which things were not linear in me1 and me 2 
i dare you 

[Icemix]

Because that is the story arc, like it or not. If we have way too much control over the story, that would create more variations and the ending would be an even bigger mess than it already is.

[napushenko]

Mykel54 wrote...

I think it is because joining TIM would have required a new path in the game, much like in the witcher 2, and the devs weren´t willing to put that effort in.

The game is just too linear to account for such things, even renegade shepard feels awkard many times, because paragon shepard just fits better in how the story folds.

TIM was also made a obvious villain from the start, by making him use reaper tech on his own troops, making them husk-like. Yet they could have simply had certain prototype implants (based on reaper tech if you like) that enhanced their abilities, linking to the ME1 idea of searching for super soldiers. But i guess making them brainless mooks makes them works better as your enemy.

If you compare the codex entry of ME2 and ME3 about cerberus, you will see a change: in ME3 it says that cerberus wants to advance human interests, regarding the costs to non humans AND humans. In ME2 it was just to non humans. So TIM went from an organization that values humanity but is ruthless about the way they go, to another that doesn´t even care about his own cerberus members (remember in ME2 "cerberus is humanity" line?). It´s just sad

do you remember experiments on admiral kahoku and his team in me 1 ? 
yeah, they were allways about rainbows and butterflies 

and why should they put that effort when none of the previous games had such feature in any way. whats so different now that you all are bashing for linearity and so appreciate me 1 & 2 which were so "non linear" only in your dreams. 

and in case you didnt noticed, reapers have arrived. 
cerberus didnt have time to play nice any more and needed that data that could only be got by massive and fast experimenting. did you even play attack on cerberus base ? 

Modifié par napushenko, 19 mai 2012 - 12:56 .

[Icemix]

napushenko wrote...

Mykel54 wrote...

I think it is because joining TIM would have required a new path in the game, much like in the witcher 2, and the devs weren´t willing to put that effort in.

The game is just too linear to account for such things, even renegade shepard feels awkard many times, because paragon shepard just fits better in how the story folds.

TIM was also made a obvious villain from the start, by making him use reaper tech on his own troops, making them husk-like. Yet they could have simply had certain prototype implants (based on reaper tech if you like) that enhanced their abilities, linking to the ME1 idea of searching for super soldiers. But i guess making them brainless mooks makes them works better as your enemy.

If you compare the codex entry of ME2 and ME3 about cerberus, you will see a change: in ME3 it says that cerberus wants to advance human interests, regarding the costs to non humans AND humans. In ME2 it was just to non humans. So TIM went from an organization that values humanity but is ruthless about the way they go, to another that doesn´t even care about his own cerberus members (remember in ME2 "cerberus is humanity" line?). It´s just sad

do you remember experiments on admiral kahoku and his team in me 1 ? 
yeah, they were allways about rainbows and butterflies 

and why should they put that effort when none of the previous games had such feature in any way. whats so different now that you all are bashing for linearity and so appreciate me 1 & 2 which were so "non linear" only in your dreams. 

They can't even if they want to, there is no space on the limited ****box 360. Maybe on PC and PS3, but since its main market is the 360, we all have to suffer.

[chengthao]

i wish BW gave the option to go "rogue" and join Cerberus or stay loyal and join the Alliance

that way you can really play renegade and paragon

[HellbirdIV]

Because if you agreed with the Illusive Man you'd be kind of an idiot. It's very, very obvious that what he's doing isn't a valid plan, and that his steps to attaining that plan were out and out bat**** insane and evil.

"Renegade" is not "Evil". Murdering thousands in the name of a power-hungry grab at human supremacy is literally the kind of thing that our dear Nazzy friends did during the 1936-1945 period.

It's not a valid idea, the Illusive Man is out of his goddamn mind.

[A-Slice-of-Pink]

chengthao wrote...

i wish BW gave the option to go "rogue" and join Cerberus or stay loyal and join the Alliance

that way you can really play renegade and paragon

yes that would have been lovely but would have required bioware to essentially make two games, as already said can you imagine any of you're current squadmembers or or Admiral Hackett and Anderson agreeing to you rejoining cerberus? Many levels would have to be changed or scrapped altogether (cerberus base, Priority:citadel, sur kesh, mars etc). although its a nice idea it would simply not have been feasible in the time and the budget Bioware had.