139 réponses à ce sujet

[Cadence of the Planes]

DeathScepter wrote...

he is not bigoted. He loves Asari women.

Who doesnt love asari women?

I'll believe he's not bigoted when he starts loving krogan women

Modifié par Cadence of the Planes, 26 mai 2012 - 10:36 .

[DJBare]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Well, if we wanted to be a true role-playing game the option should have been there in Mass Effect 1.

Certainly it is a role playing game, but it's also a story being "told" where the player has some input, the story is to defeat the reapers, whether you are renegade or paragon does not matter, both are out to stop the reapers in this "story", TIM has fallen under the control of the reapers, therefore renegade or paragon are going to have a problem with TIM.

[Bill Casey]

Because Shepard is trying to destroy the reapers, and The Illusive Man has been brainwashed by the reapers into believing he can control them, and harness their essense to bring humanity to the apex of evolution...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 mai 2012 - 10:48 .

[Rip504]

Katamariguy wrote...

I mean, he sounded like he had some good ideas. Not ethical ideas, but good ones. I didn't immediately shout "Indoctrinated!" when he proposed to control the reapers. But no, instead I have to deny him, and instantly assume he's indoctrinated, even though it sounds like a perfectly valid idea.

To add insult to injury, Shepard has the option to control the reapers, right after insisting to TIM that the reapers cannot be controlled! <_<

TIM no longer trust Shepard. I agree the entire game is presenting Destroy VS Control,and then we get to the Catalyst and are standing there like :huh: ooo ...<_<

Modifié par Rip504, 26 mai 2012 - 11:29 .

[M0keys]

res27772 wrote...

Katamariguy wrote...

Why are We Forced to Disagree with Illusive Man?

Because choice, apparently, is an illusion itself, we have no choice in the end but to do what 'they', or fate if you will, demands of us.

Kind of poetic given the Terminator undertones in ME... they try to fight the future, change their fate, but in the end, it all goes fubar anyway.

doesn't that depend on who's writing?

when james cameron was doing terminator, the message was you could change fate. when someone else took over, it became "nah forget it you really can't"

happened to aliens too.. cameron built themes of family with ripley and newt and hicks and bishop, then alien 3 happens and that all gets flushed down the drain

seems that people who write sequels to james cameron material hate his messages lol

[Apathy1989]

It was just bad writing.

They should have made cerberus a force in the background trying to dominate the reapers, and make shepard the **** trying to stop them. At least that would have kept them morally grey.

Constantly helping the reapers made no sense.

[xbb1024]

Katamariguy wrote...

I mean, he sounded like he had some good ideas. Not ethical ideas, but good ones. I didn't immediately shout "Indoctrinated!" when he proposed to control the reapers. But no, instead I have to deny him, and instantly assume he's indoctrinated, even though it sounds like a perfectly valid idea.

To add insult to injury, Shepard has the option to control the reapers, right after insisting to TIM that the reapers cannot be controlled! <_<

There was scope to like the Illusive Man in ME2, because he was a more complex character with well developed ideas and a plan to achieve them.

In ME3, he was just written as a single minded sociopathic villian.

[ace6633]

I was actually hoping we'd get the option to side with Cerberus... I originally started playing my renegade femshep as human dominance at any cost type character (she's not my canon shep I just wanted to see where it went). She was always accepting of the illusive man through out 2. When I realized that wasn't an option to keep it compelling I made her repent after shooting Mordin.

[xbb1024]

M0keys wrote...

res27772 wrote...

Katamariguy wrote...

Why are We Forced to Disagree with Illusive Man?

Because choice, apparently, is an illusion itself, we have no choice in the end but to do what 'they', or fate if you will, demands of us.

Kind of poetic given the Terminator undertones in ME... they try to fight the future, change their fate, but in the end, it all goes fubar anyway.

doesn't that depend on who's writing?

when james cameron was doing terminator, the message was you could change fate. when someone else took over, it became "nah forget it you really can't"

happened to aliens too.. cameron built themes of family with ripley and newt and hicks and bishop, then alien 3 happens and that all gets flushed down the drain

seems that people who write sequels to james cameron material hate his messages lol

Ahh, the Terminator universe.

I have my own fanfic theories about this (which I started to think about when the Sarah Conner Chronicals got cancelled). Who wins the final war won't actually matter while both sides have access to time travel. Its conceivable that while John Conner won in many of the futures, the Terminators could have also won many times as well, perhaps even more.

With every ventrure back in time, the future does get changed, and leaves the venturer an orphan because the timeline he/she/it came from has been forever altered by thier presence in the past (the Catherine Weaver character from the Sarah Conner Chronicals would be an example of this, where her version of SkyNet never comes to be).

The ultimate endgame is to win the war while the other side has no timetravel abilities.

[Catamantaloedis]

The Illusive Man's ideas were genuinely genius. He singlehandedly would have saved the galaxy from the Reapers and secured humanity's dominance over the galaxy as the just reward for its salvation. It's a shame that Shepard had to get involved. But at least my Shepard saw the logic of his ways when he took control of the Reapers and accomplished what the Illusive Man had dreamed: establishing authority over the civilized races and exterminating the savage ones.

[xbb1024]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Illusive Man's ideas were genuinely genius. He singlehandedly would have saved the galaxy from the Reapers and secured humanity's dominance over the galaxy as the just reward for its salvation. It's a shame that Shepard had to get involved. But at least my Shepard saw the logic of his ways when he took control of the Reapers and accomplished what the Illusive Man had dreamed: establishing authority over the civilized races and exterminating the savage ones.

The same thing was attempted in Javik's cycle as well, a splinter group thought they could control the Reapers but just ended up getting indoctrinated. Its all part of the Reaper's trap.

[Catamantaloedis]

xbb1024 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Illusive Man's ideas were genuinely genius. He singlehandedly would have saved the galaxy from the Reapers and secured humanity's dominance over the galaxy as the just reward for its salvation. It's a shame that Shepard had to get involved. But at least my Shepard saw the logic of his ways when he took control of the Reapers and accomplished what the Illusive Man had dreamed: establishing authority over the civilized races and exterminating the savage ones.

The same thing was attempted in Javik's cycle as well, a splinter group thought they could control the Reapers but just ended up getting indoctrinated. Its all part of the Reaper's trap.

Explain why the Reapers attacked Sanctuary. It's because they were afraid.

[xbb1024]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

xbb1024 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Illusive Man's ideas were genuinely genius. He singlehandedly would have saved the galaxy from the Reapers and secured humanity's dominance over the galaxy as the just reward for its salvation. It's a shame that Shepard had to get involved. But at least my Shepard saw the logic of his ways when he took control of the Reapers and accomplished what the Illusive Man had dreamed: establishing authority over the civilized races and exterminating the savage ones.

The same thing was attempted in Javik's cycle as well, a splinter group thought they could control the Reapers but just ended up getting indoctrinated. Its all part of the Reaper's trap.

Explain why the Reapers attacked Sanctuary. It's because they were afraid.

The lure of trying to control the Reapers shouldn't be allowed to actually result in controlling the Reapers.

I'm basing my previoius statement on the Catalyst directly saying that they control the Illusive Man.

Modifié par xbb1024, 27 mai 2012 - 01:22 .

[Aiyie]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Because of god awful writing. Cerberus being the villains was incredibly forced and makes no sense whatsoever. It especially doesn't make sense for the Illusive Troll to end up indoctrinated when the level prior to that explicitly explains that they found out how to control Reapers with a counter frequency. Even with Reaper tech jammed into his skull, Illusive Troll should have still been able to play the frequency and stay under his own control.

never really thought that the cerberus version of indoctrination was ever even remotely viable.

reason being, with TIM already indoctrinated by the Reapers, there was no way they'd allow him to develop or do anything that would actually threaten them.

this means that his attempts at developing his own form of indoctrination, counter-acting actual Reaper indoctrination, taking control of Reaper troops, and especially taking control of the Reapers themselves...

was doomed from the start.

i mean seriously, if you control all the actions and motivations of someone, are you going to allow them to actively undermine your efforts?

[Aiyie]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

xbb1024 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Illusive Man's ideas were genuinely genius. He singlehandedly would have saved the galaxy from the Reapers and secured humanity's dominance over the galaxy as the just reward for its salvation. It's a shame that Shepard had to get involved. But at least my Shepard saw the logic of his ways when he took control of the Reapers and accomplished what the Illusive Man had dreamed: establishing authority over the civilized races and exterminating the savage ones.

The same thing was attempted in Javik's cycle as well, a splinter group thought they could control the Reapers but just ended up getting indoctrinated. Its all part of the Reaper's trap.

Explain why the Reapers attacked Sanctuary. It's because they were afraid.

either that or TIM and cerberus were no longer useful tools, and the only purpose that remained for them, from the Reaper's point of view, was to die.