I think the kid is real. I think the Catalyst just took the form of the kid to mess with Shepard.
Is the kid in the beginning not real?
Débuté par
NocturnalStillness
, mai 19 2012 12:17
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#27
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 04:20
NocturnalStillness
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When I played it it just looked like that one soldier was just looking about he didn't seem to be looking at the kid. Never saw the scene with him running into the building before, nor did I notice him on the wall (but to be fair I've never looked at all the photos).
Also thanks to everyone for replying
Also thanks to everyone for replying
#28
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 04:22
garrusfan1
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shepard told garrus he couldn`t be more than 7Fixers0 wrote...
EsterCloat wrote...
Shuttle doesn't leave until he gets on. One of the soldiers looks at him while he climbs aboard.
Where did you get this?EsterCloat wrote...
Also, the kid is like ten years old. He can climb onto a shuttle on his own without a big strong soldier carrying him.
He's awfully small for a ten year old.
#29
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 04:24
garrusfan1
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this has been debated before some say it is proof towards IT which I agree not being negative towards OP just saying and nobody notices him the soldiers help the man and woman get to the shuttle but let the kid struggle so something is wrong their
#31
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 04:31
eoinnx03
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Nah I'd say the kid was real, we are giving bioware way to much credit here.
Also did people see Micheal Gamble's face at PAX when he was asked about it? It seemed to me like he was slightly insulted by 'it'.
That was just what I got from it though, I can easily be wrong and I don't have anything against Gamble in the slightest.
Also did people see Micheal Gamble's face at PAX when he was asked about it? It seemed to me like he was slightly insulted by 'it'.
That was just what I got from it though, I can easily be wrong and I don't have anything against Gamble in the slightest.
#32
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 04:36
Peytl
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Hihoshi101 wrote...
Can someone post a pic of the kid on the memorial wall... I can't find it...
Also has anyone here ever seen the movie 'Taken' you know the one about the mother that couldn't let go of her 'nonexistant' kid? Pictures and 'evadence' of things that are accualy messing with our minds are a very common card story tellers play. Fight Club does this too. Hell we do it to ourselves when remembering things we can planet people and even whole conversations with them even if we didn't know them yet. We spend hours trying to prove them wrong that they where there looking for the picture of us together because we know we have one...
Modifié par Peytl, 19 mai 2012 - 09:20 .
#33
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 04:50
Ashtarth1
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Why would Shepard not try to find the one who put up the kid's picture?
#34
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:01
Peytl
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I think the same picture can be found at Diana Allers place on Normandy, but I uninstalled the game long time ago. Strange, IT zealots, so eager to find their proof, didn't find this. Oh, wait, kid is real when he plays with the Normandy model, after that he's hallucination. 
)
)
#35
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:18
Lonsecia
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The thing I found most peculiar is that throughout your time on Earth, it feels like it's exclusively that one boy you see.
The first time is on a rooftop playing with a Normandy model. That always struck me as more than a little coincidental. He has a toy of your ship, and at the end of the game, an image that looks like him could be argued as toying with you. I think partly that's where some of IT came from - that first time you see him.
If the boy's a 'plant' in your subconscious, it indirectly hints at the idea that it sees you as nothing more than a plaything, to be discarded once your use has been fulfilled.
After that first time, you see him around another three times (that bit with him running to the door that's clearly locked, the vent, and finally as he gets onto the transport vessel).
I imagine, going by the stuff in the demo about how fractured Shep's mind is (something about how many deaths have left their marks on his/her psyche), and the dreams, it's probably all just slightly awkward ways of trying to show that by this stage in the story, Shep's supposedly suffering quite severely from... Well, something like PTSD.
I say 'like' because it feels a bit clumsy and careless to have someone suffering from PTSD in charge of something like this. I can't imagine they'd make it to the end without something going terribly wrong because of it.
I think it's odd that aside from one line late on where Shep queries whether they're real or not (after viewing one of the video snippets involving his/her rebirth and TIM), there's little indication that Shep ever doubts what they see or hear, despite the implications of a fresh Shep's choice. Personally, I'd be raising eyebrows if throughout a city, I kept seeing the same face repeatedly, but that could be the paranoia talking.
And now I have the image of an Aphex Twin video in my head.
If it is PTSD (or something similar), that could explain more about why only they seem to see the child, and why the starchild appears in that form, though from what I understand of PTSD, it would likely be that the child would be based on someone either long dead, and/or one that the person had a strong attachment to, either through guilt, remorse, regret or something else.
Also, and this is a personal feeling: I think the dreams could have done with actually being more powerful/manipulative if they were indeed supposed to show us how severe the PTSD (is similar) is affecting Shep.
I've never had a nightmare that felt that tame before, and I've not lived through unimaginable horrors. Shep has seen people being harvested into cosmic slop, she's seen people's dead bodies coming back to life as husks, she's had a squadmate die because of her order, she's potentially killed Wrex, can be the sole survivor of a horrific attack, and so on, yet it's this one boys death that resonates - and that's not even a boy she sees die, rather the vessel he's in blowing up. Think of that scene in the collector base where we see people being turned into goo, or having to look Wrex in the eyes before killing him.
If I was having a nightmare/writing one, it'd have probably involved me 'waking' up to Cerberus forces and finding myself captive, only to be taken to the Reapers (or them overrun the base) and find myself helplessly in the situation where I'm about to be liquefied by nano bots, with my squad mates and crew all around me being harvested, only to wake up in a combination of sheer horror and relief that it was just a dream.
Failing that, a nightmare depicting the absolute failure I know is a potential outcome of what me and my companions are attempting. Waking up, heading to a mission, only for something to go wrong because the intel was wrong, and seeing my crew die before I too fall, again, only waking up at the last minute.
I aknowledge they're both cliche, but no more/less so than the running dream.
First is similar to Ripley's dream in Aliens (not sure if it's in the normal cut as well as the Director's Cut or not) where Bourke comes into her hospital room to check in on her, only for a few moments to pass before the cat starts hissing at her, and she starts writhing around in agony, looks to her stomach/chest to see that an alien is starting to hatch.
The second almost anything that involves a character having doubts over what they can achieve/a reliving of a failed mission form their past that they're trying to put behind them, - though in that situation it'd be more likely that in ME, the dream would be a reliving of the suicide mission,
The chasing dream is the same as Don't Look Now, only with significantly less impact. The comparison (if you believe in IT) doesn't end there with this dream, as if you've seen the film, you know what ends up happening.
As for whether the boy's real... Well, if IT is not the case, then perhaps it's down to your own interpretation of events. If your Shep is lucid throughout, then it stands to reason the boy is real (though arguable whether you'd actually dream about them). If yours is a mess, like mine was, then it's likely a construct of your own mind manifesting itself to convey guilt and remorse for all those that have died before (it's arguable - again - if my/your Shep would project this one child in their nightmares, especially when you never saw him actually die, only the vessel blow up - as mentioned above).
The first time is on a rooftop playing with a Normandy model. That always struck me as more than a little coincidental. He has a toy of your ship, and at the end of the game, an image that looks like him could be argued as toying with you. I think partly that's where some of IT came from - that first time you see him.
If the boy's a 'plant' in your subconscious, it indirectly hints at the idea that it sees you as nothing more than a plaything, to be discarded once your use has been fulfilled.
After that first time, you see him around another three times (that bit with him running to the door that's clearly locked, the vent, and finally as he gets onto the transport vessel).
I imagine, going by the stuff in the demo about how fractured Shep's mind is (something about how many deaths have left their marks on his/her psyche), and the dreams, it's probably all just slightly awkward ways of trying to show that by this stage in the story, Shep's supposedly suffering quite severely from... Well, something like PTSD.
I say 'like' because it feels a bit clumsy and careless to have someone suffering from PTSD in charge of something like this. I can't imagine they'd make it to the end without something going terribly wrong because of it.
I think it's odd that aside from one line late on where Shep queries whether they're real or not (after viewing one of the video snippets involving his/her rebirth and TIM), there's little indication that Shep ever doubts what they see or hear, despite the implications of a fresh Shep's choice. Personally, I'd be raising eyebrows if throughout a city, I kept seeing the same face repeatedly, but that could be the paranoia talking.
And now I have the image of an Aphex Twin video in my head.
If it is PTSD (or something similar), that could explain more about why only they seem to see the child, and why the starchild appears in that form, though from what I understand of PTSD, it would likely be that the child would be based on someone either long dead, and/or one that the person had a strong attachment to, either through guilt, remorse, regret or something else.
Also, and this is a personal feeling: I think the dreams could have done with actually being more powerful/manipulative if they were indeed supposed to show us how severe the PTSD (is similar) is affecting Shep.
I've never had a nightmare that felt that tame before, and I've not lived through unimaginable horrors. Shep has seen people being harvested into cosmic slop, she's seen people's dead bodies coming back to life as husks, she's had a squadmate die because of her order, she's potentially killed Wrex, can be the sole survivor of a horrific attack, and so on, yet it's this one boys death that resonates - and that's not even a boy she sees die, rather the vessel he's in blowing up. Think of that scene in the collector base where we see people being turned into goo, or having to look Wrex in the eyes before killing him.
If I was having a nightmare/writing one, it'd have probably involved me 'waking' up to Cerberus forces and finding myself captive, only to be taken to the Reapers (or them overrun the base) and find myself helplessly in the situation where I'm about to be liquefied by nano bots, with my squad mates and crew all around me being harvested, only to wake up in a combination of sheer horror and relief that it was just a dream.
Failing that, a nightmare depicting the absolute failure I know is a potential outcome of what me and my companions are attempting. Waking up, heading to a mission, only for something to go wrong because the intel was wrong, and seeing my crew die before I too fall, again, only waking up at the last minute.
I aknowledge they're both cliche, but no more/less so than the running dream.
First is similar to Ripley's dream in Aliens (not sure if it's in the normal cut as well as the Director's Cut or not) where Bourke comes into her hospital room to check in on her, only for a few moments to pass before the cat starts hissing at her, and she starts writhing around in agony, looks to her stomach/chest to see that an alien is starting to hatch.
The second almost anything that involves a character having doubts over what they can achieve/a reliving of a failed mission form their past that they're trying to put behind them, - though in that situation it'd be more likely that in ME, the dream would be a reliving of the suicide mission,
The chasing dream is the same as Don't Look Now, only with significantly less impact. The comparison (if you believe in IT) doesn't end there with this dream, as if you've seen the film, you know what ends up happening.
As for whether the boy's real... Well, if IT is not the case, then perhaps it's down to your own interpretation of events. If your Shep is lucid throughout, then it stands to reason the boy is real (though arguable whether you'd actually dream about them). If yours is a mess, like mine was, then it's likely a construct of your own mind manifesting itself to convey guilt and remorse for all those that have died before (it's arguable - again - if my/your Shep would project this one child in their nightmares, especially when you never saw him actually die, only the vessel blow up - as mentioned above).
#36
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:30
ChickenMan77
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God, I Hope the Kid isn't real. It's a cheap narrative trick to make the player feel bad in the beginning..
Also, In light of the ending it just seems stupid and contrived to have the Reaper creator showing up in a dead kid's form...
Plus, does anyone know if Bioware has shown a kid getting popped before..... I don't recall... but haven't played all of their games....
anyways..I'll just give em this perk and dock them some Karma as game developers...
Also, In light of the ending it just seems stupid and contrived to have the Reaper creator showing up in a dead kid's form...
Plus, does anyone know if Bioware has shown a kid getting popped before..... I don't recall... but haven't played all of their games....
anyways..I'll just give em this perk and dock them some Karma as game developers...
#37
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:34
garrusfan1
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whoa little far wanna kill the holo kid too but that is a sick picChickenMan77 wrote...
God, I Hope the Kid isn't real. It's a cheap narrative trick to make the player feel bad in the beginning..
Also, In light of the ending it just seems stupid and contrived to have the Reaper creator showing up in a dead kid's form...
Plus, does anyone know if Bioware has shown a kid getting popped before..... I don't recall... but haven't played all of their games....
anyways..I'll just give em this perk and dock them some Karma as game developers...
#38
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:38
TsaiMeLemoni
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garrusfan1 wrote...
whoa little far wanna kill the holo kid too but that is a sick picChickenMan77 wrote...
God, I Hope the Kid isn't real. It's a cheap narrative trick to make the player feel bad in the beginning..
Also, In light of the ending it just seems stupid and contrived to have the Reaper creator showing up in a dead kid's form...
Plus, does anyone know if Bioware has shown a kid getting popped before..... I don't recall... but haven't played all of their games....
anyways..I'll just give em this perk and dock them some Karma as game developers...
Never played Fallout?
Personally, I think the kid is real.
#39
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:52
Vox Draco
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I have a hard time to see the kid as real. Everything is weird in each scene it appears. If the kid's real, the shuttle-scene is made very, very poorly, as those soldiers should have helped the kid inside etc...they jsut don't seem to give a fock...
And that vent-scene? More fitting for an Asian-horror-movie...
As long as not proven differently, the kid is not real for me. Or it is a distant relative of Alma from F.E.A.R.
And that vent-scene? More fitting for an Asian-horror-movie...
As long as not proven differently, the kid is not real for me. Or it is a distant relative of Alma from F.E.A.R.
#40
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 06:18
NocturnalStillness
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Peytl wrote...
I think the same picture can be found at Diana Allers place on Normandy, but I uninstalled the game long time ago. Strange, IT zealots, so eager to find their proof, didn't find this. Oh, wait, kid is real when he plays with the Normandy model, after that he's hallucination.
But isn't Shepard watching the kid then? So doesn't prove that he isn't a figment of Shep's mind.
#41
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 06:24
Gilthanis
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Ashtarth1 wrote...
The kid's comments seem to revolve around Shepard (sort of like a certain goofy reaper from ME2)
Shepard: It's okay.
Kid: Everyone's dying.
Shepard: Take my hand.
Kid: You can't help me.
the average kid wouldn't say that kind of stuff? Maybe the point was "look how tough this kid is, he could've been the next Shepard."
That kid was so damn fatalistic. He would have been hardcore emo if he had grown up.
#42
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 06:38
Forsythia
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The kid is probably real. I wish he wasn't. I wish they didn't put him in the game. He's the worst ME character ever. Yes, even worse than the Catalyst. Which even looks like him! And why weren't there more kids? Were they turned into husks? Can you imagine a swarm of husk children coming at you? Or were they absorbed into cannibals? I'd gladly shoot them in the face if they were.
On a more serious note, I think it's bad that BioWare used such a cheap - no wait, cheezy - tactic to get some emotional response from the player. It didn't work for me, all I saw was a stupid mute kid with a stupid face. Sorry to the kid they used for the facemodel.
On a more serious note, I think it's bad that BioWare used such a cheap - no wait, cheezy - tactic to get some emotional response from the player. It didn't work for me, all I saw was a stupid mute kid with a stupid face. Sorry to the kid they used for the facemodel.
#43
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 06:42
Peytl
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That's why we want our little blue children!
#45
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 08:04
doodiebody
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The kid seems real in the beginning scene, but from the vent on, he just seems off.
Maybe he's real and maybe he's not, but it's totally outrageous for a kid that young to stare Shepard right in the eyes and say "you can't help me" and then vanish. Given that line, it seems safe to assume the kid recognizes who Shepard is. It's been a couple decades since I was 7, but I imagine I'd view Shepard as some sort of butt kicking super hero. I certainly wouldn't run from him.
Maybe he's real and maybe he's not, but it's totally outrageous for a kid that young to stare Shepard right in the eyes and say "you can't help me" and then vanish. Given that line, it seems safe to assume the kid recognizes who Shepard is. It's been a couple decades since I was 7, but I imagine I'd view Shepard as some sort of butt kicking super hero. I certainly wouldn't run from him.
Modifié par doodiebody, 19 mai 2012 - 08:05 .
#46
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 08:06
Tazzmission
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he was real. i do believe the catalyst used the image of him to communicate with shepard because it was eating away at him/her
im interested to see the real form of the catalyst without the use of imagery from someones dream
im interested to see the real form of the catalyst without the use of imagery from someones dream
#47
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 08:22
liggy002
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aj2070 wrote...
Samtheman63 wrote...
^ That.
You as Shepard also hear a noise in the vents. That is what draws Shepard to the vents to find the kid in the first place.
Where the hell did the kid come from? Obviously, he couldn't have scaled that building. He's obviously not real.
#48
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 09:02
Peytl
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liggy002 wrote...
aj2070 wrote...
Samtheman63 wrote...
^ That.
You as Shepard also hear a noise in the vents. That is what draws Shepard to the vents to find the kid in the first place.
Where the hell did the kid come from? Obviously, he couldn't have scaled that building. He's obviously not real.
I bet on the game screen-writers.
#49
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 09:05
Lookout1390
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Please, just stop this.
Some believe the kid isn't real and supports IT
Other believe he is real, and is just a random kid, and that Bioware is just too incompetent to pull off something like IT.
Edit: And I find it hard in the 2 seconds Shepard was turned around to Anderson, the kid, while making no noise at all, slips and hides away in the vents out of sight, and I also find it odd that we hear a Reaper growl at the exact same time.
Some believe the kid isn't real and supports IT
Other believe he is real, and is just a random kid, and that Bioware is just too incompetent to pull off something like IT.
Edit: And I find it hard in the 2 seconds Shepard was turned around to Anderson, the kid, while making no noise at all, slips and hides away in the vents out of sight, and I also find it odd that we hear a Reaper growl at the exact same time.
Modifié par Lookout1390, 19 mai 2012 - 09:15 .
#50
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 09:10
DirtySHISN0
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2 cents.
None of the soldiers help the kid onto the shuttle, they just look right through him. They help the other people on.
I would like him to not be real.
None of the soldiers help the kid onto the shuttle, they just look right through him. They help the other people on.
I would like him to not be real.
