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Cutscenes in video-games: YAY or NAY?

Débuté par Guest_Luc0s_* , mai 19 2012 02:27

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#76
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 02:17

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Sajji wrote...

Call of Duty is the odd enigma in gaming that transcends all argumentation. Most of CoD's popularity stems from multiplayer...how are the cutscenes and storytelling in that?


That's besides the point. I'm not saying that Call of Duty is a good game. I'm saying that using sales statistics as an argument is flawed and doesn't work, because sales tell you nothing about the quality of the game.

Call of Duty simply has better markering than Skyrim. It's as simple as that. Sales are 90% marketing and 10% because the game has high quality. The Witcher 2 has higher quality than Skyrim, yet it sold a lot less because CDPR didn't have a budget to market the crap out of The Witcher 2. Not to mention that CDPR is very new and not many people know The Witcher or CDPR.

If The Witcher 2 had the same marketing budget as Skyrim you can bet your ass that the game would have sold like crazy. Give CDPR some time to get reckognized and you'll see that in the future their games will become the new hype.


So yeah, try to come with a better argument than trying to use sales statistics, because they do not help you in proving a
your point obviously.

Modifié par Luc0s, 20 mai 2012 - 02:22 .

#77
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 02:19

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Sajji wrote...

How many copies did Skyrim sell, anyways?

Oh no, I went there.

Ah, the popularity/sales = quality argument. I expect next you'll be telling us all how great the Transformers movies are? Or perhaps the Star Wars prequels?

Modifié par Cthulhu42, 20 mai 2012 - 02:21 .

#78
Sajji
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 02:22

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Luc0s wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Call of Duty is the odd enigma in gaming that transcends all argumentation. Most of CoD's popularity stems from multiplayer...how are the cutscenes and storytelling in that?


That's besides the point. I'm not saying that Call of Duty is a good game. I'm saying that using sales statistics as an argument is flawed and doesn't work, because sales tell you nothing about the quality of the game.

Call of Duty simply has better markering than Skyrim. It's as simple as that. Sales are 90% marketing and 10% because the game has high quality.


So yeah, try to come with a better argument than trying to use sales statistics, because they do not help you in proving a point obviously.


You hopped off the CoD thing real quick there when I pointed out the reality its main draw is the cutscene-less, story-less multiplayer.

Arguing against statistics is, how shall I say it...a very slippery slope. Counterarguments to pure raw statistics often come off as irrational.

#79
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 02:25

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Sajji wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Call of Duty is the odd enigma in gaming that transcends all argumentation. Most of CoD's popularity stems from multiplayer...how are the cutscenes and storytelling in that?


That's besides the point. I'm not saying that Call of Duty is a good game. I'm saying that using sales statistics as an argument is flawed and doesn't work, because sales tell you nothing about the quality of the game.

Call of Duty simply has better markering than Skyrim. It's as simple as that. Sales are 90% marketing and 10% because the game has high quality.


So yeah, try to come with a better argument than trying to use sales statistics, because they do not help you in proving a point obviously.


You hopped off the CoD thing real quick there when I pointed out the reality its main draw is the cutscene-less, story-less multiplayer.

Arguing against statistics is, how shall I say it...a very slippery slope. Counterarguments to pure raw statistics often come off as irrational.


Nice strawman you got there.

I did not hop off the CoD thing, because the CoD thing still proves my point. Sales is 90% marketing and 10% quality. So statistics do not prove your point.

Using statistics and not knowing what you're talking about is a very slippery slope. A very slippery slope you just entered.


Next time when you use statistics to back up your argument, try to be less ignorant about where those statistics really come from and why the statistics are the way they are. Because you just failed miserably.


According to you, the Transformers movies must be really good movies, because z0MG LOOK AT THE STATISTICS! Yeah, try to fail less next time.

Modifié par Luc0s, 20 mai 2012 - 02:30 .

#80
termokanden
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 02:30

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Luc0s wrote...

I did not hop of the CoD thing, because the CoD thing still proves my point. Sales is 90% marketing and 10% quality. So statistics do not prove your point.


For the record, I agree that sales numbers are not constructive in this discussion. However, I'm not really sure what your CoD argument was supposed to prove, and your claim that it's 90% marketing and 10% quality completely misses the fact that some games have broader appeal than others. The type of game isn't really easily put into the sales or the quality category. You could make the best game ever about walking stick insects and have the best marketing, and it still wouldn't be an interesting game to most people.

#81
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 02:34

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termokanden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

I did not hop of the CoD thing, because the CoD thing still proves my point. Sales is 90% marketing and 10% quality. So statistics do not prove your point.


For the record, I agree that sales numbers are not constructive in this discussion. However, I'm not really sure what your CoD argument was supposed to prove, and your claim that it's 90% marketing and 10% quality completely misses the fact that some games have broader appeal than others. The type of game isn't really easily put into the sales or the quality category. You could make the best game ever about walking stick insects and have the best marketing, and it still wouldn't be an interesting game to most people.


Well, to inform you how this all started:

Saji here argued that Skyrim is a better game than The Witcher 2 because Skyrim has been sold more copies than The Witcher 2.

So, according to her logic, Call of Duty must be better than Skyrim, because it has sold more copies than Skyrim.

That's how it started.


Trying to argue that sales = quality is a fallacy and simply not true.


According to Sajjii, Justin Bieber must be the best music artist alive right now, because z0MG LOOK AT THE SALES! THEY'RE IRREFUTABLE!

Modifié par Luc0s, 20 mai 2012 - 02:42 .

#82
termokanden
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 02:45

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Luc0s wrote...

Trying to argue that sales = quality is a fallacy and simply not true.


I agree.

The numbers merely prove that you can have a successful game that doesn't rely on cutscenes.

#83
Rockworm503
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 02:46

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Luc0s just wants to be told he's right.

#84
termokanden
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 02:47

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Rockworm503 wrote...

Luc0s just wants to be told he's right.

Me too, but nobody every does. Going to bed :)

#85
The Hierophant
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 02:48

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termokanden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Trying to argue that sales = quality is a fallacy and simply not true.


I agree.

The numbers merely prove that you can have a successful game that doesn't rely on cutscenes.

Lulz.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 20 mai 2012 - 02:49 .

#86
Sajji
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 02:53

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The Witcher 2 is a brilliant game, but the cutscenes are far from the best part. The twitch combat is.

#87
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 02:53

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termokanden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Trying to argue that sales = quality is a fallacy and simply not true.


I agree.

The numbers merely prove that you can have a successful game that doesn't rely on cutscenes.


Yes, but that does not prove that cutscenes do not make a game better. Cutscenes as a tool should not be entirely dismissed simply because one game without cutscenes managed to be super succesful.

We should also look at WHY a given game is succesful. And I can assure you, that Skyrim's lack of cutscenes is not a reason why it was succesful. I haven't heard any person ever say "wow, I'm so glad Skyrim doesn't have cutscenes!" Well, I have, now that I've met Sajjii. But the average casual player did not buy Skyrim for the lack of cutscenes. Most people I know bought Skyrim for the immersive open-world sandbox experience it had to offer.

I think that if we asked all Skyrim-players to list 3 things what they think makes Skyrim great, very very VERY few would answer the lack of cutscenes.


Also, if we look at the average top 10 best story-telling games ever made, we don't see any Skyrim anywhere in such top 10 lists. Skyrim is not known for telling a good story. If you ask an average player to list a few games that told fantastic stories, you're most likely going to hear Uncharted, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, that type of game.

Modifié par Luc0s, 20 mai 2012 - 03:01 .

#88
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 02:57

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Sajji wrote...

The Witcher 2 is a brilliant game, but the cutscenes are far from the best part. The twitch combat is.


No, the story is. The story is handsdown the best and most impressive part of The Witcher 2. And the story is mostly told through cutscenes. That doesn't mean the story is great because of the cutscenes. No, the story was just very well written, but the cutscenes certainly did help to bring that amazing story to the player!

Take a look at this for example, this is just pure gold: http://www.youtube.c...l4Iozcw#t=3m33s

I think that's a good example of the power of cutscenes. Cutscenes can truly be something amazing if they are done well.

Modifié par Luc0s, 20 mai 2012 - 02:59 .

#89
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 03:01

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Luc0s wrote...
the average casual player did not buy Skyrim for the lack of cutscenes. 

The average casual player didn't buy Skyrim at all.

#90
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 03:03

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jreezy wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
the average casual player did not buy Skyrim for the lack of cutscenes. 

The average casual player didn't buy Skyrim at all.


Yes they did. Or are you now honestly implying that from the 10 million copies sold every single copy was sold to a hardcore gamer?


I know at least 10 people in my direct neighborhood which I would classify as "average casual gamer" who bought Skyrim.

#91
bEVEsthda
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 03:04

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Luc0s wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

NAY


Wow, this must be the most insightful and constructive post I've ever seen. And such good argumentation too!


Thankyou.


And I'm sure you didn't just vote for "NAY" because your Bethesda Corps in disguise? 


Yes, I'm quite sure.



 After all, your nickname does sound quite similar to the word "Bethesda". 
BEVEsthda... Bevesthda... Bethesthda... Bethesda... I think I'm on to something here... :bandit:


And my name is supposed to remind of Bethesda. It's intentional. And I've explained the reasons for that to Stanley Woo.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 20 mai 2012 - 03:05 .

#92
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 03:06

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bEVEsthda wrote...

And my name is supposed to remind of Bethesda. It's intentional. And I've explained the reasons for that to Stanley Woo.


Is it because you're a Bethesda fan? Just a random guess. :innocent:

Modifié par Luc0s, 20 mai 2012 - 03:07 .

#93
bEVEsthda
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 03:09

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Luc0s wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

And my name is supposed to remind of Bethesda. It's intentional. And I've explained the reasons for that to Stanley Woo.


Is it because you're a Bethesda fan? Just a random guess. :innocent:


Nope, it's because Bioware have turned their back on me and my ilk.

#94
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 03:12

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bEVEsthda wrote...

Nope, it's because Bioware have turned their back on me and my ilk.


Ah right.


Anyway, why did you vote "NAY" to cutscenes in video-games? And do you think cutscenes should be avoided altogether, or only in specific type of games?

Modifié par Luc0s, 20 mai 2012 - 03:18 .

#95
The Hierophant
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 03:24

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Luc0s what you try to achieve with this thread avails you naught. We're united in our love for Skyrim and thus united against your tyranny.

#96
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 03:35

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Luc0s wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
the average casual player did not buy Skyrim for the lack of cutscenes. 

The average casual player didn't buy Skyrim at all.


Yes they did. Or are you now honestly implying that from the 10 million copies sold every single copy was sold to a hardcore gamer?


I know at least 10 people in my direct neighborhood which I would classify as "average casual gamer" who bought Skyrim.

You have different definition of casual than I then.

#97
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 04:03

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jreezy wrote...

You have different definition of casual than I then.

Getting people to agree on the definition of a casual gamer is only slighly easier than getting them to agree on what makes a game an RPG.

#98
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 04:18

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Cthulhu42 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

You have different definition of casual than I then.

Getting people to agree on the definition of a casual gamer is only slighly easier than getting them to agree on what makes a game an RPG.

Good point. I did find some pretty good info on what qualifies as casual in my game usability book though.

#99
DahliaLynn
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 05:19

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Apparently the OP seems to be ignoring the more constructive posts.
Pity.

-carry on then. :?

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 20 mai 2012 - 05:20 .

#100
Sajji
Posté 20 mai 2012 - 05:30

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bEVEsthda wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

And my name is supposed to remind of Bethesda. It's intentional. And I've explained the reasons for that to Stanley Woo.


Is it because you're a Bethesda fan? Just a random guess. :innocent:


Nope, it's because Bioware have turned their back on me and my ilk.


You speak the truth.
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