169 réponses à ce sujet

[Destructorlio]

liggy002 wrote...

It all makes sense in the magical land of IT. 

Yep- in fact it's the only place where it does make sense- which is why I totally believe that IT will prove correct.

[gatsbyfollower]

Ah, so is that unintentional conflation of Bioware's views with an "unreliable narrator's views"? As has been stated, it takes 5000 EMS to get the half-breath if Anderson is allowed to be killed. I refuse to believe that means the best option is to watch Keith David bleed out.

[TSA_383]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

I would never pick synthesis, as an option it is disgusting. What the hell were they thinking with this option?

When/where did Bioware say it was the best option?

It's a feeling that is derived from the game mechanics (it requires the highest EMS to make available), as well as the Catalyst's description of Synthesis (which is blatantly positive).

You mean the catalyst which both admits to being leader of the reapers, and is clearly inside your head and taking the form of the child to try to manipulate you?




SHEPARD. SYNTHESIS IS THE WAY. IT IS THE FINAL EVOLUTION. A NEW DNA. EMBRACE PERFECTION, FOR WE ARE YOUR SALVATION THROUGH DESTRUCTION IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO SYNTHESIZE.

[Asharad Hett]

Sisterofshane wrote...

 the Catalyst's description of Synthesis (which is blatantly positive).

Shepard:  "Which path will save the Galaxy?"

Harbinger:  "I recommend Synthesis"

[o Ventus]

TSA_383 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

I would never pick synthesis, as an option it is disgusting. What the hell were they thinking with this option?

When/where did Bioware say it was the best option?

It's a feeling that is derived from the game mechanics (it requires the highest EMS to make available), as well as the Catalyst's description of Synthesis (which is blatantly positive).

You mean the catalyst which both admits to being leader of the reapers, and is clearly inside your head and taking the form of the child to try to manipulate you?

My new favorite picture.

[eddieoctane]

Armass81 wrote...

"synthetics are already a part of you, can you imagine your life without them", oh you mean before i was made into Cyber Jesus? Yes I can, and it was pretty ok.

I had a hot blue girlfriend, command of my own ship, the respect and personal gratitude of the Council, and basically carte blanche to deal with anyone who got in my way as I saw fit. Life was damn good. And not a synthetic in sight.

After I got all cyborged-out, I was considered a criminal, barely even had nominal support of the Council, lost my crew, and was indebted to an indoctrinated terrorist. How is that somehow better?

[Sisterofshane]

TSA_383 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

I would never pick synthesis, as an option it is disgusting. What the hell were they thinking with this option?

When/where did Bioware say it was the best option?

It's a feeling that is derived from the game mechanics (it requires the highest EMS to make available), as well as the Catalyst's description of Synthesis (which is blatantly positive).

You mean the catalyst which both admits to being leader of the reapers, and is clearly inside your head and taking the form of the child to try to manipulate you?

I just have this really bad feeling that the writers badly wanted to turn the reapers into sympathetic villains (as evidenced in this ending and the original dark energy ending).

The problem being that the sympathetic villain role had already been fulfilled - first by Saren and then again by TIM and Cerberus.  So they flopped on it, and gave the Reaper's a motive, while reducing TIM to a moustache twirling, kitten drowning villain, leaving the fair maiden tied up on the train tracks.

[TSA_383]

eddieoctane wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

"synthetics are already a part of you, can you imagine your life without them", oh you mean before i was made into Cyber Jesus? Yes I can, and it was pretty ok.

I had a hot blue girlfriend, command of my own ship, the respect and personal gratitude of the Council, and basically carte blanche to deal with anyone who got in my way as I saw fit. Life was damn good. And not a synthetic in sight.

After I got all cyborged-out, I was considered a criminal, barely even had nominal support of the Council, lost my crew, and was indebted to an indoctrinated terrorist. How is that somehow better?

We should have a new petition for this to be a dialogue option.

[gatsbyfollower]

Sisterofshane wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

I would never pick synthesis, as an option it is disgusting. What the hell were they thinking with this option?

When/where did Bioware say it was the best option?

It's a feeling that is derived from the game mechanics (it requires the highest EMS to make available), as well as the Catalyst's description of Synthesis (which is blatantly positive).

You mean the catalyst which both admits to being leader of the reapers, and is clearly inside your head and taking the form of the child to try to manipulate you?

I just have this really bad feeling that the writers badly wanted to turn the reapers into sympathetic villains (as evidenced in this ending and the original dark energy ending).

The problem being that the sympathetic villain role had already been fulfilled - first by Saren and then again by TIM and Cerberus.  So they flopped on it, and gave the Reaper's a motive, while reducing TIM to a moustache twirling, kitten drowning villain, leaving the fair maiden tied up on the train tracks.

The problem is I don't think the writers ever had a dang clue what to do about the Reapers.  They introduce this Big Baddy who acts tough and mysterious and we all love him.... until we realize that he's feeding us a load of hogwash.  Then ME2 comes out, and the almighty leader of the Reapers takes time out of his busy life to hop from Collector to Collector throwing silly insults at us.  Then ME3 comes out, and we get one interaction with an actual reaper (who happens to NOT be Harbinger...).  I'm calling Bioware's bluff: they've been making this stuff up as they go along.

[Sisterofshane]

gatsbyfollower wrote...


The problem is I don't think the writers ever had a dang clue what to do about the Reapers.  They introduce this Big Baddy who acts tough and mysterious and we all love him.... until we realize that he's feeding us a load of hogwash.  Then ME2 comes out, and the almighty leader of the Reapers takes time out of his busy life to hop from Collector to Collector throwing silly insults at us.  Then ME3 comes out, and we get one interaction with an actual reaper (who happens to NOT be Harbinger...).  I'm calling Bioware's bluff: they've been making this stuff up as they go along.

I still think that they intended to make us feel sympathetic for the Reapers from the get-go (even with Sovy, saying he is our "salvation through destruction).

But really, how do you make something so foreign and terrible relatable?  It's like they want us to be horrified by the reapers and their origins (melting us into genetic goo, creatures unfathomably old and intelligent, and with large amounts of destructive power - sounds more like Love-craftian to me).  There really wasn't enough fore-shadowing at all to suggest that I might want to think twice before killing them - I never questioned the need for them to die.


And I hope Bioware is reading this now, because I just want to say that I don't really care WHY the Reapers do what they do. 

[xsdob]

How about show me the physical evidence that bioware said this outside the leaked memo that patrick weekes confirmed was fake and said that he never wrote.

Show me this legitimate evidence and maybe I'll consider your point. After all, you are the accuser, the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

Modifié par xsdob, 20 mai 2012 - 05:51 .

[Asharad Hett]

xsdob wrote...

How about show me the physical evidence that bioware said this outside the leaked memo that patrick weekes confirmed was fake and said that he never wrote.

Show me this legitimate evidence and maybe I'll consider your point. After all, you are the accuser, the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

EMS

[gatsbyfollower]

Asharad Hett wrote...

xsdob wrote...

How about show me the physical evidence that bioware said this outside the leaked memo that patrick weekes confirmed was fake and said that he never wrote.

Show me this legitimate evidence and maybe I'll consider your point. After all, you are the accuser, the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

EMS

I somewhat share your belief, but it has already been established that EMS alone is insufficient, as the two highest values of EMS that link to a specific outcome are both from Destroy.

[Sisterofshane]

gatsbyfollower wrote...

Asharad Hett wrote...

xsdob wrote...

How about show me the physical evidence that bioware said this outside the leaked memo that patrick weekes confirmed was fake and said that he never wrote.

Show me this legitimate evidence and maybe I'll consider your point. After all, you are the accuser, the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

EMS

I somewhat share your belief, but it has already been established that EMS alone is insufficient, as the two highest values of EMS that link to a specific outcome are both from Destroy.

What is directly contradictory to this is all of the dev statements saying that multiplayer is unneccesary to recieve the "best" ending.  As far as I know (has this been changed yet?)  In order to get the shepard-breath scene, you need to play multiplayer.

[eddieoctane]

xsdob wrote...

How about show me the physical evidence that bioware said this outside the leaked memo that patrick weekes confirmed was fake and said that he never wrote.

Show me this legitimate evidence and maybe I'll consider your point. After all, you are the accuser, the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

Pretty sure Mac said destroy wasn't the best. Not concrete proof, but it does still point towards his support of synthesis.

[Asharad Hett]

gatsbyfollower wrote...

Asharad Hett wrote...

xsdob wrote...

How about show me the physical evidence that bioware said this outside the leaked memo that patrick weekes confirmed was fake and said that he never wrote.

Show me this legitimate evidence and maybe I'll consider your point. After all, you are the accuser, the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

EMS

I somewhat share your belief, but it has already been established that EMS alone is insufficient, as the two highest values of EMS that link to a specific outcome are both from Destroy.

Yes.  But as you know, destroy is available with low EMS.    On my first play through, I was able to pick either Control or Destroy.  It was not a "bad" destroy, because Earth was "saved".   I had to work harder to get synthesis on my subsequent play through.  That is all the proof I need.

Regardless, destroy is always my choice.

[xsdob]

gatsbyfollower wrote...

Asharad Hett wrote...

xsdob wrote...

How about show me the physical evidence that bioware said this outside the leaked memo that patrick weekes confirmed was fake and said that he never wrote.

Show me this legitimate evidence and maybe I'll consider your point. After all, you are the accuser, the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

EMS

I somewhat share your belief, but it has already been established that EMS alone is insufficient, as the two highest values of EMS that link to a specific outcome are both from Destroy.

Destroy's highest value gets you an ending where shepard may live, synthesis gives you the same ending for synthesis regardless of outcome.

Destroy has 3 different versions of it, control has 2, and synthesis only one.

I think they like destroy more, and I have more evidnce than just ems, for example destroy shows anderson picking it, who is a character that many in the mass effect fandom likes.

If synthesis was really the favored ending, there would be a lot more nudging towards it than just a middle ems rating and no cutscene to show what happens when you pick it like control or destroy did.

Besides, why is there no celebrating soliders in synthesis like there is in good destroy and good control?

Modifié par xsdob, 20 mai 2012 - 06:05 .

[gatsbyfollower]

Sisterofshane wrote...

gatsbyfollower wrote...

Asharad Hett wrote...

xsdob wrote...

How about show me the physical evidence that bioware said this outside the leaked memo that patrick weekes confirmed was fake and said that he never wrote.

Show me this legitimate evidence and maybe I'll consider your point. After all, you are the accuser, the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

EMS

I somewhat share your belief, but it has already been established that EMS alone is insufficient, as the two highest values of EMS that link to a specific outcome are both from Destroy.

What is directly contradictory to this is all of the dev statements saying that multiplayer is unneccesary to recieve the "best" ending.  As far as I know (has this been changed yet?)  In order to get the shepard-breath scene, you need to play multiplayer.

I was under the impression that a perfectly run file through all games with ALL available DLC gives a tiny bit above 8k (providing of course that you shoot Wrex and delete Maleon's data).  But perhaps I am mistaken.

[xsdob]

eddieoctane wrote...

xsdob wrote...

How about show me the physical evidence that bioware said this outside the leaked memo that patrick weekes confirmed was fake and said that he never wrote.

Show me this legitimate evidence and maybe I'll consider your point. After all, you are the accuser, the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

Pretty sure Mac said destroy wasn't the best. Not concrete proof, but it does still point towards his support of synthesis.

So he said it but no where on the internet is it recorded at all that he said it?

Do you really think I'll buy that?

Modifié par xsdob, 20 mai 2012 - 06:08 .

[eddieoctane]

xsdob wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

xsdob wrote...

How about show me the physical evidence that bioware said this outside the leaked memo that patrick weekes confirmed was fake and said that he never wrote.

Show me this legitimate evidence and maybe I'll consider your point. After all, you are the accuser, the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

Pretty sure Mac said destroy wasn't the best. Not concrete proof, but it does still point towards his support of synthesis.

So he said it but no where on the internet is it recorded at all that he said it?

Do you really think I'll buy that?

Twitter.  So unless he deleted it, it should be up there somewhere. But it's 2 in the morning, and I;m goign to bed.

[Geneaux486]

All three choices are pretty much equal in that they're making the best of a bad situation. Wasn't a surprise to find out that stopping a force as incomprehensibly powerful as the Reapers required a massive sacrifice of some kind.  Destroy forces you to commit genocide, synthesis forces you to modify organic DNA on a galactic scale, and control... well a lot of people use the fact that it enslaves the Reapers as the downside, but honestly, I'm not all that sympathetic towards them, seeing as how they've acted like total bastards for the better part of three games.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 20 mai 2012 - 06:10 .

[xsdob]

eddieoctane wrote...

xsdob wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

xsdob wrote...

How about show me the physical evidence that bioware said this outside the leaked memo that patrick weekes confirmed was fake and said that he never wrote.

Show me this legitimate evidence and maybe I'll consider your point. After all, you are the accuser, the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

Pretty sure Mac said destroy wasn't the best. Not concrete proof, but it does still point towards his support of synthesis.

So he said it but no where on the internet is it recorded at all that he said it?

Do you really think I'll buy that?

Twitter.  So unless he deleted it, it should be up there somewhere. But it's 2 in the morning, and I;m goign to bed.

So when did this tweet between mister walters and a fan occur? And how come it wasn't posted in the tweeter feed in the general forums?

Still no proof, still not convincing. I could probably make up a story right now and everyone would believe me with the amount of evidence your using t prove your point.

I'm a skeptic in all this but i'm giving you ample oppurtunity to convince me, so please at least give me something that can be pointed to and say, "this is empriacal evidence that says this"

Modifié par xsdob, 20 mai 2012 - 06:12 .

[gatsbyfollower]

Geneaux486 wrote...

All three choices are pretty much equal in that they're making the best of a bad situation. Wasn't a surprise to find out that stopping a force as incomprehensibly powerful as the Reapers required a massive sacrifice of some kind.  Destroy forces you to commit genocide, synthesis forces you to modify organic DNA on a galactic scale, and control... well a lot of people use the fact that it enslaves the Reapers as the downside, but honestly, I'm not all that sympathetic towards them, seeing as how they've acted like bastards for the better part of three games.

Agreed, and trying to "darken" it by associating it with TIM was just silly.  I'll repost someone's slightly tongue-in-cheek "Why Control is the best" argument.

1) Make them repair relays and ferry supplies for a bit.
2) Make them construct an EDI-esque body.
3) Transfer yourself to said body.
4) Order Reapers to fly into center of galaxy.
5) Profit (kinda).

[Geneaux486]

gatsbyfollower wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

All three choices are pretty much equal in that they're making the best of a bad situation. Wasn't a surprise to find out that stopping a force as incomprehensibly powerful as the Reapers required a massive sacrifice of some kind.  Destroy forces you to commit genocide, synthesis forces you to modify organic DNA on a galactic scale, and control... well a lot of people use the fact that it enslaves the Reapers as the downside, but honestly, I'm not all that sympathetic towards them, seeing as how they've acted like bastards for the better part of three games.

Agreed, and trying to "darken" it by associating it with TIM was just silly.  I'll repost someone's slightly tongue-in-cheek "Why Control is the best" argument.

1) Make them repair relays and ferry supplies for a bit.
2) Make them construct an EDI-esque body.
3) Transfer yourself to said body.
4) Order Reapers to fly into center of galaxy.
5) Profit (kinda).

That's my favorite theory on the outcome of control yet.

[Necrotron]

I really think they thought speculation would be fun and invigorating and the 'epic end' to the adventure they were hoping for.

They anticipated wrong. We'll just have to wait for another epic series to care about.