169 réponses à ce sujet

[gatsbyfollower]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

They don't need to put out a press release saying "Synthesis is the best ending" for it not to be clearly their favored ending. The game mechanics point to it. The writing of the writers points to it. The words they put into the Catalyst's mouth points to it. Seriously. Listen to what the Catalyst says and the tone of voice used. Destroy and Control are both painted negatively. Synthesis is painted positively.

Somewhat building off that point but somewhat moving away from it, I found it interesting that Control and Destroy are presented as a dualist dyad, with synthesis being presented as a kind of synthesis to the thesis-anthesis struggle, somewhat similar to Hegelian dialectics.

So I will agree it is presented DIFFERENTLY, but does that translate into better?

[Geneaux486]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

They don't need to put out a press release saying "Synthesis is the best ending"

For people to truthfully claim it's their official stance?  Yeah they do.

[Destructorlio]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

I would never pick synthesis, as an option it is disgusting. What the hell were they thinking with this option?

When/where did Bioware say it was the best option?

It's a feeling that is derived from the game mechanics (it requires the highest EMS to make available), as well as the Catalyst's description of Synthesis (which is blatantly positive).

This sort of blind adherence to game mechanics and the words of a lying Reaper contruct is not Bioware's problem, it is anyone who would follow either so slavishly. Destroy is the best option, and the only moral option.

[Dont Kaidan Me]

Here

@Gary_Dillon but the idea is there is no concept of machine or organic anymore. There is only life.

Huh. But that doesn't jive with what clearboy says... "we will become more like you and you will become us". Last I noticed, the Reapers were still mechanical.

Either terrible terrible writing, or Gamble is just putting these statements out there to elicit more speculation.

[Geneaux486]

Destructorlio wrote...
This sort of blind adherence to game mechanics and the words of a lying Reaper contruct is not Bioware's problem, it is anyone who would follow either so slavishly. Destroy is the best option, and the only moral option.

Destroy kills the Geth.  It's genocide.  How is that moral?

@Gary_Dillon but the idea is there is no concept of machine or organic anymore. There is only life.

Huh. But that doesn't jive with what clearboy says... "we will become more like you and you will become us".

Actually that does jive.  They become more like each other, the boundaries are gone.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 20 mai 2012 - 07:15 .

[o Ventus]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...
This sort of blind adherence to game mechanics and the words of a lying Reaper contruct is not Bioware's problem, it is anyone who would follow either so slavishly. Destroy is the best option, and the only moral option.

Destroy kills the Geth.  It's genocide.  How is that moral?

Side with the quarians. Problem solved.

[Geneaux486]

o Ventus wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...
This sort of blind adherence to game mechanics and the words of a lying Reaper contruct is not Bioware's problem, it is anyone who would follow either so slavishly. Destroy is the best option, and the only moral option.

Destroy kills the Geth.  It's genocide.  How is that moral?

Side with the quarians. Problem solved.

Oh that's my bad then, I went the stupid peaceful route with them.

[thesnake777]

I do think that synthesis is intended to be the best ending because it is the "hardest" option to unlock. That really implies biowares stance. I dont like synthesis personally for alot of reasons, but there it is.

[Geneaux486]

thesnake777 wrote...

I do think that synthesis is intended to be the best ending because it is the "hardest" option to unlock. That really implies biowares stance. I dont like synthesis personally for alot of reasons, but there it is.

I'd probably think it was the best to if they explained it better and told us exactly how it would work.  Destroy and control are both pretty straightforward, but synthesis is just kinda dropped on us at the last minute, and it's pretty vague.

[thesnake777]

Geneaux486 wrote...

thesnake777 wrote...

I do think that synthesis is intended to be the best ending because it is the "hardest" option to unlock. That really implies biowares stance. I dont like synthesis personally for alot of reasons, but there it is.

I'd probably think it was the best to if they explained it better and told us exactly how it would work.  Destroy and control are both pretty straightforward, but synthesis is just kinda dropped on us at the last minute, and it's pretty vague.

Truth be told all three options are vauge. Though thats more apparent with synthesis. My gut reaction from it is its too close to what the reapers wanted for me to take it as a legitmate option. I havent considered it too much overall becuase I also find the way its presented falls short.  As it stands (space magic aside) It brings a halt to evolution.  ...Honeslty I dont really want to think about 

[The RPGenius]

With its own color scheme, its place in the center, the fact that it cannot be accessed unless you've done well with the game, and the way it's presented by the Catalyst, it's obviously implied by Bioware to be the ending that is best, in the opinion of the game's creator. The fact that it's utterly nonsensical, silly, is actually completely irrelevant to the problem of Synthetic-Organic relations it proposes to solve, and completes the process of utter annihilation of every shred of thematic significance of the Mass Effect series that the ending started, not to mention implies the disturbingly shortsighted and bigotry-inviting viewpoint that physical differences make coexistence impossible, is, of course, immaterial.

[BD Manchild]

The RPGenius wrote...

With its own color scheme, its place in the center, the fact that it cannot be accessed unless you've done well with the game, and the way it's presented by the Catalyst, it's obviously implied by Bioware to be the ending that is best, in the opinion of the game's creator. The fact that it's utterly nonsensical, silly, is actually completely irrelevant to the problem of Synthetic-Organic relations it proposes to solve, and completes the process of utter annihilation of every shred of thematic significance of the Mass Effect series that the ending started, not to mention implies the disturbingly shortsighted and bigotry-inviting viewpoint that physical differences make coexistence impossible, is, of course, immaterial.

I want to echo what's been said here.The way the game's constructed does seem to state that Bioware consider this to be the best ending. Well, I am actually fearful of what this might hint at regarding their worldview, as I find Synthesis to be ethically repugnant on every level, as well as going completely against what the series has been about up to this point (not that it hadn't already with the whole moronic shift into "it's just organics vs synthetics" territory).

Bioware screwed up completely with this ending, and Synthesis is the absolute lowest of the low.

[Dont Kaidan Me]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Dont Kaidan Me wrote...
@Gary_Dillon but the idea is there is no concept of machine or organic anymore. There is only life. -Gamble

Huh. But that doesn't jive with what clearboy says... "we will become more like you and you will become us".

Actually that does jive.  They become more like each other, the boundaries are gone.

I'm mincing words. He says we (the Reapers) will become MORE like you, in contrast to us BECOMING the Reapers. That's how it reads literally, sans interpretation.

If your explanation is what that exact phrase was intended to mean, it was written poorly (the dialog - not what you said )

Modifié par Dont Kaidan Me, 20 mai 2012 - 08:03 .

[Bill Casey]

Synthesis is what the reapers have been doing for three games now...
It's what the Reapers brainwash people into believing...
It's everything we've been fighting...

There is no way they would so thoroughly ruin the trilogy...
No way...

Bioware is ****ing with us...

[Fireblader70]

They think it's the best ending because it means peace and love between all living things.

I don't understand the hate for it sometimes...

[Bill Casey]

You're accepting Reaper Doctrine from the Reaper King...
It's bull****...

It's a Lotus Eater Machine...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 20 mai 2012 - 08:12 .

[thesnake777]

Fireblader70 wrote...

They think it's the best ending because it means peace and love between all living things.

I don't understand the hate for it sometimes...

At the very least its not presented well and there are implications to the way its presented. 

[Fireblader70]

thesnake777 wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

They think it's the best ending because it means peace and love between all living things.

I don't understand the hate for it sometimes...

At the very least its not presented well and there are implications to the way its presented. 

Such as?

[Bill Casey]

Transhumanism will be a personal choice achieved on our own terms...
Like Biotics or Quarians...

Accepting it from the Reapers is just insane...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 20 mai 2012 - 08:22 .

[Annie_Dear]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...
This sort of blind adherence to game mechanics and the words of a lying Reaper contruct is not Bioware's problem, it is anyone who would follow either so slavishly. Destroy is the best option, and the only moral option.

Destroy kills the Geth.  It's genocide.  How is that moral?

The Reapers are destroyed for good.

While I didn't like the idea of the Geth and EDI dying, I wasn't going to let the Reapers just leave. Who's to say the Catalyst won't change his own rules and send them after us again? It's not a risk I or my Shepard would be willing to take. 

It was the only way to be sure that the Reapers are gone for good.

[o Ventus]

Fireblader70 wrote...

thesnake777 wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

They think it's the best ending because it means peace and love between all living things.

I don't understand the hate for it sometimes...

At the very least its not presented well and there are implications to the way its presented. 

Such as?

I made a thread dedicated to this sort of thing

[Talogrungi]

Fireblader70 wrote...

They think it's the best ending because it means peace and love between all living things.

I don't understand the hate for it sometimes...

lol

[TSA_383]

Bill Casey wrote...

You're accepting Reaper Doctrine from the Reaper King...
It's bull****...

It's a Lotus Eater Machine...

This.

I have a copy of the full in-game subtitles, which, interestingly, note who a given character is speaking to at any point.

It's interesting, because we can see who TIM/Anderson are talking to in the last scene...
Hint: They never actually talk to each other. Every word they say is directed at Shepard, it is a classic angel/devil on shoulder type situation. Hell, when anderson has his "you're... indoctrinated" line, Shepard is listed as the character he's talking to.

A few more interesting things...
First, let's see some of the lines of misc dialogue from throughout the scene (usually activated due to rep/EMS).

Anderson's lines from the scene:


Now, how about The Illusive Man's lines:


I'd say it starts to become pretty clear what's really going on here...
But wait, there are plenty more lines in which TIM comes across as indoctrinated-as-****:

[GuardianAngel470]

WhiteVV1ings wrote...

It's pretty obvious EA had an hand in this fiasco with ME3.

ME3 has many issues, but the ending is the biggest. I'm still upset that the journal doesn't even update, seems as if Bioware forgot how to make a Mass Effect game. ME2 intro is more polished quality and emotional wise than ME3's.

In Mass Effect 2's intro you die because your crewman refused to leave the ship and are immediately resurrected by a group that may or may not have already tried to kill you multiple times.

Mass Effect 2's intro is many things; high quality is not one of them.