181 réponses à ce sujet

[LKx]

Trying to forget about ME3, i'm forcing myself to replay ME1...
Yes, it's a bit rusty, and the inventory is a bit annoying (mostly because of its design, it could have been a lot better with a better GUI), but i'm realizing how much ME2&ME3 are dumbed down compared to it.

In ME3 they've tryied to have it a little less semplified than ME2, with the weapons upgrades&weight, but i still consider it very weak... i mean, in ME you had several different armors and you could change it on any of your squadmates!

And what about the ME3's oversimplified dialogues AND autodialogues?

So, do you think that it's a good or a bad thing that they are dumbing down their games?
And why they are doing that?

Modifié par LKx, 20 mai 2012 - 12:13 .

[MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES]

DUDEBROS DON'T LIKE GAMEPLAY MECHANICS THAT FORCE THEM TO DO SIMPLE MATH LIKE "WHICH OF THESE TWO NUMBERS IS LARGER?"

BUT, REALLY, IT'S NOT LIKE THE MASS EFFECT SERIES ARE RPGS IN THE FIRST PLACE. THEY PLAY LIKE TPS GAMES WITH RPG ELEMENTS AND DIALOGUE SECTIONS, AND THERE'S NO REASON TO SHOEHORN GAMEPLAY ELEMENTS FROM A GENRE THEY WERE BASED ON IF THOSE GAMEPLAY ELEMENTS DON'T MAKE SENSE IN THE CONTEXT OF THEIR PARTICULAR FORMULA.

[Gibb_Shepard]

MILK FOR COCO POPS IS TOTES RIGHT

[LKx]

yeah... i'm starting to get it...

[SalsaDMA]

Marketable to as many consumers as possible.

They're heading the way of Carlsberg beer: Nothing great, just taking away anything people might actually dislike (And I say this as a dane).

[zyntifox]

LKx wrote...

Trying to forget about ME3, i'm forcing myself to replay ME1...
Yes, it's a bit rusty, and the inventory is a bit annoying (mostly because of its design, it could have been a lot better with a better GUI), but i'm realizing how much ME2&ME3 are dumbed down compared to it.

In ME3 they've tryied to have it a little less semplified than ME2, with the weapons upgrades&weight, but i still consider it very weak... i mean, in ME you had several different armors and you could change it on any of your squadmates!

And what about the ME3's oversimplified dialogues AND autodialogues?

So, do you think that it's a good or a bad thing that they are dumbing down their games?
And why they are doing that?

I wouldn't call ME2 and ME3 being dumbed down. Just more appealing to the non-traditional RPG player. Now, i am a traditional RPG player, or atleast i cosider myself one, but i am fine with the steps they have taken. The bigger market they can attract the more profitable the product will be. The more profitable the product is the larger the likelihood is for sequels to this, still very good game. But that's just my opinion.

[SalsaDMA]

Cstaf wrote...

LKx wrote...

Trying to forget about ME3, i'm forcing myself to replay ME1...
Yes, it's a bit rusty, and the inventory is a bit annoying (mostly because of its design, it could have been a lot better with a better GUI), but i'm realizing how much ME2&ME3 are dumbed down compared to it.

In ME3 they've tryied to have it a little less semplified than ME2, with the weapons upgrades&weight, but i still consider it very weak... i mean, in ME you had several different armors and you could change it on any of your squadmates!

And what about the ME3's oversimplified dialogues AND autodialogues?

So, do you think that it's a good or a bad thing that they are dumbing down their games?
And why they are doing that?

I wouldn't call ME2 and ME3 being dumbed down. Just more appealing to the non-traditional RPG player. Now, i am a traditional RPG player, or atleast i cosider myself one, but i am fine with the steps they have taken. The bigger market they can attract the more profitable the product will be. The more profitable the product is the larger the likelihood is for sequels to this, still very good game. But that's just my opinion.

Take enough flavour away from a product, and you're left with something that is without taste.

There's a reason I avoid Carlsberg when I got options, it's because they aimed for the mass market taking away flavour and now the product is a bland substitue for water. Bioware have slowly been doing the same with their products since EA took over and I've started to get to the point where I'm starting to avoid their watery products too..

[Phaedon]

 Meanwhile, some ME1 fans are not smart enough to realize that all ME1 'stats' progress as a group, essentially being a single stat. The latest CoD sequels have way more stats than that.


And please, do mention 'upgrades'.

[DaJe]

Because they think the dumber the game, the bigger the audience. They also think the main audience for games is 14 years old and 99% male, which might have been the case 10 years ago, but not anymore, far from it.

They forget that a simple game isn't automatically enjoyable for everyone and there are just as many people who want some kind of challenge and reward as there are people who want quick and dumb action to forget about the days troubles.

They forget that games with many mechanics and some level of complexity often sell much more than games that are purposefully dumbed down to appeal to larger audience. Oh the irony.

But try to explain that to the suits who call the shots but never even play games. All they are interested in are one-dimensional market analyses from people who also don't play games.
That leaks down to the developers who also forget what it's like to actually play games and there you have it.

The ugly part in this is that as the mainstream media gets...more simply, the expectations and sophistication of their audience shrinks. In order to please that audience, that is grown tired of thinking they have to make something even dumber and so the cycle of primitive continues.
I call it the Jersey Shore Effect.

[eternalnightmare13]

Cause the younger generation is too stupid and impatient to play real rpgs.

[Phaedon]

Oh, and concerning 'dumbing down';

I have been playing CRPGs for 10 or so years. More than some, less than others. I never faced a real mental challenge, considering that the entire philosophy is to adapt your generic RPG tactics to the mechanics of every idividual game. Sometimes you plan ahead, others it's just a trial and error concept.

I wonder how many of you who take pride in not playing supposedly 'dumbed down' games (yes, video games!) have been playing adventure games. You know, the ones actually requiring mental intellect and in some cases, even knowledge.

Apparently, not too many, considering that adventure games really do attract only a minority of consumers.

All in all, it doesn't matter how many 'hardcore' games you beat, how many certificates you gather, or how many people consider you smart, if you go out of your way to show off any of those, then you are certainly not intelligent. You are just another insecure person of medium intellect looking for confirmation of their intelligence.

Modifié par Phaedon, 20 mai 2012 - 01:00 .

[Phaedon]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Cause the younger generation is too stupid and impatient to play real rpgs.

Aye, laddie. Back in my Klondike days, we kids would solve four Rubik's cubes while proving the Riemann hypothesis. At the same time.


Holy heck. Just look at the advertisements from the early 90s. You think that this generation is dumb?

EDIT:

Modifié par Phaedon, 20 mai 2012 - 01:27 .

[BatmanPWNS]

ME1 was never "smart" to begin with.

[ThatGamerWithSouvlaki285]

At the begining, low graphical and storytelling tech andmeant developer's had to rely on gameplay mechanics to keep players invested. Now with new HD graphical tech and cinematic storytellings mean players are drawn in by enviroments and cinemaitics rather than gameplay, look at COD. Not to mention constant oversight and pressure on developers by high standing executives of gaming companies giving short deadlines to maximize profits...

Modifié par steph285, 20 mai 2012 - 01:02 .

[eternalnightmare13]

Phaedon wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Cause the younger generation is too stupid and impatient to play real rpgs.

Aye, laddie. Back in my Klondike times, we kids would solve four Rubik's cubes while proving the Riemann hypothesis. At the same time.


Holy heck. Just look at the advertisements from the early 90s. You think that this generation is dumb?

EDIT:

Child, please.  Everything after that brat Alexander the Great ''solved'' the Gordian knot  everything else was dumbed down...

[Phaedon]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...
Child, please.  Everything after that brat Alexander the Great ''solved'' the Gordian knot  everything else was dumbed down...

Of course, if you consider sitting in front of a puzzle for hours and ending up with slashing it to bits with a sword as smart, it is logical that you consider ME1 an intellectually demanding game as well.

[Il Divo]

I don't consider the ability to choose dialogue to be a feat requiring any great amount of intelligence in the first place.

But then OP, I'm sure many of the KotOR and BG fans said the same thing about Mass Effect 1 when it first launched.

Modifié par Il Divo, 20 mai 2012 - 01:10 .

[Phaedon]

Il Divo wrote...

I don't consider the ability to choose dialogue to be a feat requiring any great amount of intelligence on the first place.

But then OP, I'm sure many of the KotOR and BG fans said the same thing about Mass Effect 1 when it first launched.

And BG fans about KOTOR, and proto-C'RPG' fans about BG.

[Il Divo]

Phaedon wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

I don't consider the ability to choose dialogue to be a feat requiring any great amount of intelligence on the first place.

But then OP, I'm sure many of the KotOR and BG fans said the same thing about Mass Effect 1 when it first launched.

And BG fans about KOTOR, and proto-C'RPG' fans about BG.

We can't resist the cycle.

[Homebound]

dumber games, more accessible. more accesible, more people. more people, more money.

simple.

[Someone With Mass]

I would never brag about beating intellectually challenging video games, anyway.

As for ME1, the only "real" challenge was the mini-game. The rest consisted of obvious equipment upgrades that didn't require any thought at all. If the armor you have has 50 shield points and you find another that has 75, you'll equip the new one to gain the advantage. Easy.

[Phaedon]

Il Divo wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

I don't consider the ability to choose dialogue to be a feat requiring any great amount of intelligence on the first place.

But then OP, I'm sure many of the KotOR and BG fans said the same thing about Mass Effect 1 when it first launched.

And BG fans about KOTOR, and proto-C'RPG' fans about BG.

We can't resist the cycle.

It really is a realm of existence so far from my own that I can't even imagine it. It is beyond my comprehension. It is Elitism.

[Get Magna Carter]

to sell as many copies as possible

- (it is bad IMHO)

[Tigerman123]

Zomg @ the Riemann hypothesis XD

Yeah I don't understand why people are obsessed with this dumbing down concept, RPG mechanics are never that complicated, this isn't chess, or Civilization, ME1's combat is simple even compared to something like Pokemon

[Phaedon]

Tigerman123 wrote...
ME1's combat is simple even compared to something like Pokemon

This is actually true.

There you go everyone. Your younger self from the late 90s played more intellectually demanding games than you. Therefore, you, yourself are getting dumbed down as you age.

Problemo?

Modifié par Phaedon, 20 mai 2012 - 01:15 .