9089 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

@Jamie:
You misunderstood: the assumption is that the Reapers were mind-controlled by the *Catalyst* to support the cycle. Post-Synthesis they're free, and the prevailing explanation for why they, as a rule, are friendly post-Synthesis is that they're not naturally hostile to the species of the galaxy because they were once as them, only served the cycle because they were mind-controlled and rather like to be free of the Catalyst's control.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 juillet 2012 - 04:14 .

[lillitheris]

Heeden wrote...

@Lili

Either the Reapers are indoctrinated or shackled, or every race when joined in consensus agrees with the Catalyst.

True. It’d be prudent to find out which before making any irreversible changes.

[Heeden]

JamieCOTC wrote...

No. It's space magic! 

Seriously, the IT came up from people over thinking (and praying to the gods) that the ending was not as bad as they thought it was.  Synthesis is a higher existence where the galaxy is individual, yet connected at the same time, chaos and order both bonded together. And if you can’t understand that, well, guess what, Sovereign told you that you wouldn’t understand it. “There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it” Synthesis is what it is, no indoctrination, no brainwashing. Should Shepard impose that on the galaxy?  That’s the moral dilemma. 

As a post-Destruction EDI+Geth ressurector (well that'st the plan, success or failure should become evident in a couple of years) my tongue was very firmly in cheek. I wouldn't see this sort of story-continuation in the same light as Indoctrination Theory, you're extrapolating and expanding on the in-game content, IT attempts to reinterpret it.

If anything the pro-ender version of IT is the "save us" idea of the Reapers recognising that Shepard offers a chance to improve on the Catalyst's solution and allowing/guiding/helping him to reach that goal.

[JamieCOTC]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Jamie:
You misunderstood: the assumption is that the Reapers were mind-controlled by the *Catalyst* to support the cycle. Post-Synthesis they're free, and the prevailing explanation for why they, as a rule, are friendly post-Synthesis is that they're not naturally hostile to the species of the galaxy because they were once as them, only served the cycle because they were mind-controlled and rather like to be free of the Catalyst's control.

I understand they are now free, but the bonding of synthetic and organic creates the bond between order and chaos enabling the higher state of being. They now understand each other and that is the first step to a peaceful coexistence.  Through this bonding and understanding EDI herself states they can reach possibilities that she cannot even imagine. As organics and synthetics understand each other better they will likely become even more codependent and may eventually evolve into one species.  I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just that’s what I got out of BW’s slide show.

[Ieldra]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Jamie:
You misunderstood: the assumption is that the Reapers were mind-controlled by the *Catalyst* to support the cycle. Post-Synthesis they're free, and the prevailing explanation for why they, as a rule, are friendly post-Synthesis is that they're not naturally hostile to the species of the galaxy because they were once as them, only served the cycle because they were mind-controlled and rather like to be free of the Catalyst's control.

I understand they are now free, but the bonding of synthetic and organic creates the bond between order and chaos enabling the higher state of being. They now understand each other and that is the first step to a peaceful coexistence.  Through this bonding and understanding EDI herself states they can reach possibilities that she cannot even imagine. As organics and synthetics understand each other better they will likely become even more codependent and may eventually evolve into one species.  I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just that’s what I got out of BW’s slide show.

There are just two problems with this: 

FIrst, understanding may be conducive to peace, but it's not a sufficient condition. You have to want it, regardless of how much you understand. So, since the Reapers set free by the Synthesis are, as a rule, not aggressive, that means either being not aggressive towards the species of the galaxy is their natural state, which is plausible since they're avatars of other species living in past cycles, and the Catalyst had them under some form of mind control before, or Synthesis changes something in them so that they are now not aggressive any more. I tend to believe it's the former, but there is no way to say for sure unless you ask a Reaper post-Synthesis. Perhaps we'll get some more info in the Leviathan DLC.

Second, that higher state of being is something hinted at for the future. Synthesis doesn't create it but only opens the path there.

[Fuzzfro]

During the Synthesis ending epilogue we see a scene with Kasumi and Keigi, what does this scene imply?

[Ieldra]

I think everyone knows what this might be intended to imply. The more pertinent question is: how do you interpret it for your game?

[detbasketball13]

"Men are so simple and yield so readily to the desires of the moment that he who will trick will always find another who will suffer to be tricked"

The Catalyst and the Reapers Approve your decision

[DrZann]

lillitheris wrote...
OK, the sources I am looking at (see below for two links) confirm that deontological ethics is duty-bound. If you disagree with this, please provide a citation.

Deontological means duty-based. I mentioned this in a previous post.

lillitheris wrote...
To clarify, I’m not arguing whether deontological ethics considers consequences (it doesn’t). I’m arguing that you must actually provide the source of the duty to which Shepard is adhering if you wish to discuss the deontological aspect.

I would be repeating myself.

lillitheris wrote...
I contend that the morality of the rules is in fact unimportant…you have a set of rules, and the action is moral if and only if it adheres to those rules.

They are called moral rules for a reason.

Modifié par DrZann, 09 juillet 2012 - 12:07 .

[DrZann]

Fuzzfro wrote...

I do like the synthesis ending but what I quite don't understand is what the Catalyst means by "we have tryed it before but they weren't ready" or something to that effect. What makes this cycle ready and why didn't it work last time but work this time? and does that mean the crucible has been used before to implement synthesis? or did the reapers and the catalyst attempt something like it?

I just need some clarification here because it is one of the few remaining issues I have with Synthesis.

I been thinking about this as well. Specially the part were it is said that Synthesis can not be forced.

[DrZann]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

YNation913 wrote...

Hopefully this rumored DLC will give us more insight into the redeeming qualities of Reapers.

 good point and probably true, but you know whatever takes place will be twisted and interpreted 5000 different ways.
it will still come down to perspective, there will never be anything overly definitive because the controversy will keep people talkin about it.
basically, it will still be up to us to determine whether or not they are truly "evil"
the people that have their minds made up already won't change them no matter what they see, IMO.
that goes for all the viewpoints.

Rumored DLC? Interesting. Since we've only met the Reapers sans free will I wonder if we have even really met them at all? Without the influence of the Catalyst that is.

[TJBartlemus]

Not here to troll. Just have to disagree on the morals of Synthesis.

If the endings are to be taken literally, Synthesis and Control are imposing your will on every being in the galaxy from your choice. Synthesis more of the two. In Synthesis they had no choice about it, and are stuck with it. And if you look notice only in control and destroy do they hold up their guns in celebration. In control at least every organic has a chance to do what they want, though the Reapers are the overseers. Almost like a galaxy wide jail.

So how can you justify Synthesis where the base reason like all major sci fi baddies is to impose their will on everyone??

[DrZann]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Hey all. Just wanted to say that I'm going to begin writing an epilogue fanfic of my canon ME career, and naturally, this will take place in a post-synthesis galaxy.
...

This sounds really cool. 

[DrZann]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I had a similar idea, but with Shepard somehow returned to life.. I'm not completely sure how it'd work yet, but I can see a few possibilities.

You know, I've mused with the idea of Shepard not dying in the first place. The beam, rather than disintegrating Shepard, takes a scan of him/her instead and sends out the uploaded info. Then, he/she just takes an emergency lifepod and gets the hell out of dodge.

As long as the Catalyst never says explicitly that Shepard will die by choosing it (can't remember his exact words), it could work. Otherwise, you can always retcon a small detail like that.

For my part, though, I like the story better with Shepard passing away.

I thought it would be funny if that Shepard VI in the cargo bay had "caught" Shep's ghost/ego.

[DrZann]

JamieCOTC wrote...
One of the reasons people hate synthesis. Glowing eyes on everybody. It's typically not a good sign.  
(or why BW screwed up horrendously when illustrating synthesis).

But that's the coolest part. That and the techno-tribalistic tats.

[AngryFrozenWater]

[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote...

[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

As suggested by others, I added this box to the OP at a prominent position:

[quote]Answer to the primary objection to Synthesis:

One of the most-used arguments against Synthesis is this: It is implausible that all the Reapers are suddenly friendly, or that everyone is suddenly ok with their presence, without some kind of mental influence, brainwashing or suchlike!

My Answer: As Legion tells us in ME2, the Reapers are the uploaded and conjoined minds of the civilizations of past cycles. This is not conjecture, but stated as a fact by a character who has some knowledge of the Reapers. Thus, there is significant truth to the claim that those species are somehow preserved in the Reapers, and it is not plausible they would all serve the cycle willingly without fail without being compelled. It is plausible to assume that the Catalyst has the Reapers under some kind of indoctrination-like mind control, subverting their will. If released, it is rather possible that some Reapers would remain hostile, but the majority would have reason to be grateful. There is even speculation that the Reapers might be complicit in Shepard's success.

It only takes this piece of information - that the Reapers were enslaved - and people would be much more accepting of them, especially since they also help rebuild. I also like to mention that the ending paints a *generally* good future, which doesn't mean it's a *universally* good one. Of course there would be some resentment and even outright hate, as well as the rogue Reaper here and there, but bad side effects aren't shown in any of the endings, so I'll go with the assumption that those problems don't mar the big picture significantly.[/quote][/quote]
And this is the other side of the coin. The reapers do not preserve anything for the good of the organics.[/quote]
They do, for the Catalyst's value of "good". The goal is to preserve organic and synthetic life *as such*, single species are preserved in the best way the Catalyst can think of without compromising its goal. Of course we can't agree with that purpose, but that doesn't change what the Reapers are.[/quote]
The brat's value of good is not important when it is using cyclical genocide to reproduce reapers by using its horrific "ascension through destruction" method. The horrors inflicted upon the reapers' victims are questionable and the "end justifies the means" does not apply to victims, especially given the sheer number of genocides. No matter how hard you try. Also, the reapers do not "preserve" life. They kill to reproduce and to stay on top of the food chain. The brat and its boys maintain that top by making sure that the organics and synthetics never pass that top. Synthesis fans also paint a situation in which the brat and the boys do good work when they are interfering with the civilizatons without their victims' consent. The brat is never asked, yet it keeps violating the right of self-determination by any means possible, from intrigue to cyclical genocide.

[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote...

There is no reason to assume that they themselves are indoctrinated.[/quote]
I gave a rather plausible reason in the post you answered. See above.[/quote]
No, you did not. You just gave a rationalization of how you believe the brat's control over the reapers works. I have a more simple one in the reapers' case: Befehl ist Befehl. The reapers' in their infinite wisdom should have known how that works and yet, they did not rise against the brat. You see, with all their superior intelligence they were not able to figure out that what they did was wrong. Any sane organism with a bit of empathy would not be able to live with itself. The Illusive Man and Saren were able to see figure that out in the end, even when indoctrinated, and understood the difference between right and wrong. They committed suicide as a result. If synthesis preaches that synthetics would gain understanding of organics then that empathy would surface on the reapers too. Yet, it didn't happen. They were perfectly able to act as tools to rebuild the civilizations without blinking a green glowing eye. So even then, the reapers and everything within waved all that away.

[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote...

If the control over the reapers is considered indoctrination then so is the control in synthesis by Shepard's essence.[/quote]
Shepard's essence in Synthesis doesn't control anything, it just helps to make certain changes. Also, there is no link between the Catalyst's control of the Reapers and the way the Crucible changes life in Synthesis, thus no reason at all to assume they're similar.[/quote]
If there is no link between Shepard's "essence of who [he/she] is and what [he/she] is" and synthesis then it is of no use and Shepard dies a martyr without a reason. The only evidence we have is that synthesis is supposed to be utopia and that somehow this essence plays an important role. You simply deny it, yet this is perfectly clear. You switch the capabilities around instead. The reapers are suddenly able to preserve the mental essence from the victims that they harvest. That's the link. But you invented that link, because, according to the brat, the Crucible was designed by another race. And you, as a synthesis fan, do trust the brat, don't you?

If in synthesis the reapers were somehow liberated from their hypothetical enslavement then agony as a result of clarity of their actions in the past should have gotten the better of them. They are supposed to think like organics. Much like EDI's "I am alive." If it is true that those who were uploaded by "ascension through destruction" didn't lose their original minds then these would be in agony as well, because they now are free from the mental shackles after the "liberation" too. Unless of course the reapers' core AI kept indoctrinating them after synthesis. Their lives were destroyed and if it is true that their minds kept their essence they would be caught in a reaper's body for eternity anyway. And thus there would be no liberation possible for them. Forever prisoner and nowhere to go. Yet, no protests were heard after synthesis. Without a doubt you will rationalize this away that it could not be seen as mind control after synthesis. So if there is no Disney-like utopian pipe dream and Shepard's essence has nothing to do with it and no reaper indoctrination exists to keep the enslaved races under control then these still look like the problems that are suppressing what everyone involved there thinks or is allowed to think. If there is no utopia then the synthesis civilization should not act like one.

[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote...

You can try to make the reapers appear as victims of the brat, but that doesn't make it true.[/quote]
It is plausible speculation. Neither you or me can look into the mind of a Reaper, so that's all we have. I do have evidence.[/quote]
What evidence? Speculation that glorifies borderline war crimes which you call plausible? Rationalizations that try to make evil look good? Also, see the paragraph above and in more detail below.

[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The reapers harvest the bodies, the knowledge and the creations of organics. There is no proof whatsoever that this involves the essence of their being, nor something that resembles their soul. Legion talks about uploading them to programs. It is unclear what kind. AI? VI would suffice because that would be enough to store that knowledge.[/quote]
Legion says specifically "uploaded and conjoined minds". We also know that the genetic information is taken. In combination, what *else* can it be but the "essence of their being", unless you believe in a transcendent soul. You can deconstruct the phrasing all you want, it is very obvious what Legion's statement is meant to convey. We don't know exactly how it was done, but what the people taken were all continues to exist in some way. If it's recoverable as an individual, that's a different question.[/quote]
The reapers themselves do not believe they are preserving such essence of the minds of the harvested races.

Sovereign: Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it.

Demanding the end does not sound like preserving the essence of the individuals. And of course:

Sovereign: We are legion. The time of our return is coming. Our numbers will darken the sky of every world. You cannot escape your doom.

Shepard: You're not even alive. Not really. You're just a machine. And machines can be broken!

Sovereign: Your words are as empty as your future. I am the vanguard of your destruction. This exchange is over.

Doom and destruction don't sound like preserving the essence of the individuals. The brat is very clear about what they "preserve":

Child: We harvest your bodies, your knowledge, your creations. We preserve it to be reborn in the form of a new reaper.

That doesn't sound like there was much left of anything they were like before. The races' minds and their knowledge are not the same thing.

I wouldn't want to defend what you just did. It's horrific. Recoverable as an individual? That sounds sterile and with no empathy. Everything they once had would be gone. No where to go. Locked up forever in a reaper prison.

However, if there was anything left of them and there was no way to "liberate" them from their eternal reaper prison sentence then I think they would ask to pull the plug for their own sanity. It would be an act of mercy. But how can they, when they are controlled before and after synthesis? Unless they were killed and their knowledge stored in VIs, in which case they would never have such problems. Given what the brat and its boys say that would be more than likely.

You deliberately twist Shepard's essence extraction as used in synthesis into being used as a similar extraction method to upload the essence of harvested minds into reaper form. Your "what *else* can it be but the 'essence of their being'" only seems to favor your cause for what exactly? Is it brought up to victimize the harvested races more and portray that synthesis is "liberating" them in some obscure way? It sounds to me that if you can fake their existence after the harvesting then that's only because destroying the reapers would be genocide of the harvested races and control would prolong their suffering. The only indication we have is that Shepard's "essence of who [he/she] is and what [he/she] is" is being mixed into synthesis only. Something similar of the harvested races is not mentioned as being desired by the brat and the boys elsewhere. Even if it is then it doesn't help your cause.

[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Those harvested bodies have already been exterminated by squeezing them to goo alive and pushing it through tubes to the reaper reproduction facility. They are dead. It's genocide. You can see this at work in detail with a human colony and see the result later of a partially finished human reaper abomination. If you want objectivity then add critique to your head canon and attempts to make war crimes sound good.[/quote]
This is getting tiresome, you know. Did I ever say forcibly uploading and conjoining minds was in any way desirable, or good? Even if you accept the harvested species are somehow preserved, of course we can't agree with them and anyway they've killed countless others, I can't believe I actually need to say this. The whole point is to stop it, remember?
But why must everything be totally black and white? Why is it so damned unthinkable to you that the Reapers may not have been their own masters, especially if so much evidence points to it: Legion implying they're as much victims as servants of the cycle, The Prothean VI saying "they're servants of the cycle not the master".
Apart from that, if you can't suspend your disbelief for the very common SF concept of uploaded minds, and the fact that the definition of what's alive and dead become blurry once you accept it, that's not my problem. Also, using the term "abomination" is a clear sign of not being objective about things. There are no abominations. There are just different forms of life.[/quote]
Of course it is tiresome from your point of view, because my arguments do not serve your belief system. You rather have this thread as propaganda for their war crimes. What else is there to think of it, when you keep defending these no matter what? The end justifies the means is all you can think of. When confronted by the implications of what you believe in, you insist that the synthesis world is great and that there really is no utopia. All horrible war crimes, even those that are still continuing after synthesis, do, according to you, not exist. Indoctrination and the end justifies the means are the cause of everything. Yet, the utopia is clear for everyone to see in the epilogue and is the main reason why you have chosen synthesis and why you rationalize everything away to reach a positive image of a concept that without doubt violates the right of self-determination. You go as far as write lots of threads containing that as head canon and try to present that head canon as fact.

No black and white? There is no white in synthesis. It is pure evil to force a Disney-like utopian pipe dream, like you describe, upon those that never asked for it.

I have already told you what I think of the enslavement of "those uploaded minds". If these still exist in synthesis then it is pure evil. As mentioned before, trying to convince the readers that these minds still exists doesn't help your cause. If true, it only implies more horror.

Different forms of life that use genocide as a means to reproduce themselves are abominations. Dangerous ones. There is no subjectivity in the destruction of the threat. Especially if your allies agree that destruction or defeat is the solution they all want. Nobody, except Saren, ever mentioned submission through synthesis.

And after all of this talk about the violation of the right of self-determination you still have no idea what the primary objection against synthesis is and what damage it has caused - in any scenario. That's worrisome.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 08 juillet 2012 - 11:50 .

[Jamie9]

Picked Synthesis. Don't regret it.

I refuse to enslave a species (Control).

I refuse to enact Genocide (Destroy + Refuse).

[TJBartlemus]

Jamie9 wrote...

Picked Synthesis. Don't regret it.

I refuse to enslave a species (Control).

I refuse to enact Genocide (Destroy + Refuse).

So imposing your decision on everyone is better than enslaving? Also war is full of losses and sacrifices. Death is unavoidable in war. Don't ever think otherwise. Refuse is just giving up. Destroy is standing with your morals from the beginning of the series to the end. 

[Jamie9]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Picked Synthesis. Don't regret it.

I refuse to enslave a species (Control).

I refuse to enact Genocide (Destroy + Refuse).

So imposing your decision on everyone is better than enslaving? Also war is full of losses and sacrifices. Death is unavoidable in war. Don't ever think otherwise. Refuse is just giving up. Destroy is standing with your morals from the beginning of the series to the end. 

Your decision is imposed on everyone, no matter your choice. You're making the decision.

Post-Synthesis, people are free not to use the synthetic traits they have acquired, such as "Consensus" and self-altering code.

War is full of loss. But I won't genocide two species when I don't have to. I can just stand a little further to the left and save them.

[TJBartlemus]

Jamie9 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Picked Synthesis. Don't regret it.

I refuse to enslave a species (Control).

I refuse to enact Genocide (Destroy + Refuse).

So imposing your decision on everyone is better than enslaving? Also war is full of losses and sacrifices. Death is unavoidable in war. Don't ever think otherwise. Refuse is just giving up. Destroy is standing with your morals from the beginning of the series to the end. 

Your decision is imposed on everyone, no matter your choice. You're making the decision.

Post-Synthesis, people are free not to use the synthetic traits they have acquired, such as "Consensus" and self-altering code.

War is full of loss. But I won't genocide two species when I don't have to. I can just stand a little further to the left and save them.

Your choice imposes in varying degrees. Reject and Synthesis the most.

Destroy - people can live their lives to how they want. (They can choose to have Synthetics not be born with them.) They have nothing controlling them and are free to do what ever. Sure Shepard's choice is imposed, but it only affects Synthetics (which can be rebuilt. organics can't be reborn. [not including religions])

Control- Similar to Destroy. Have free will, but have Reapers enforcing their will on everyone. (Type of enslavement)

Reject - Giving up makes everyone doomed and no future. 

Synthsis - Forces everyone to become part synthetic and organic. (It's been done before but failed. - Catalyst) Husks gain sentience and are doomed to a tortured existence. Organics are now what they were fighting. (Reapers, combinations of synthtic and organic) This is the only choice that changes the way things are. And when things are changed dramatically in the past has generally back fired. 

Also what 2 species have been genocided in the choices? I only remember one. The geth. Also what makes you think they are free not to use the synthetic traits??

[Jamie9]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Your choice imposes in varying degrees. Reject and Synthesis the most.

Destroy - people can live their lives to how they want. (They can choose to have Synthetics not be born with them.) They have nothing controlling them and are free to do what ever. Sure Shepard's choice is imposed, but it only affects Synthetics (which can be rebuilt. organics can't be reborn. [not including religions])

Control- Similar to Destroy. Have free will, but have Reapers enforcing their will on everyone. (Type of enslavement)

Reject - Giving up makes everyone doomed and no future. 

Synthsis - Forces everyone to become part synthetic and organic. (It's been done before but failed. - Catalyst) Husks gain sentience and are doomed to a tortured existence. Organics are now what they were fighting. (Reapers, combinations of synthtic and organic) This is the only choice that changes the way things are. And when things are changed dramatically in the past has generally back fired. 

Also what 2 species have been genocided in the choices? I only remember one. The geth. Also what makes you think they are free not to use the synthetic traits??

The Geth can rebuilt but they won't be the same people. I could make a clone using a dead human but it wouldn't be the same person. Their DNA would just be the same.

Control is what my Renegade picks. He enslaves the Reapers which enables him to enslave all of the aliens.

Reject is giving up.

Synthesis. Husks gain sentience. They do not know anything different, so will not feel "tortured". Besides that, they can upload their consciousnesses into mech bodies, like Eva Core.

Destroy genocides the Geth and the Reapers. The Reapers are a race that are enslaved by the Catalyst. They did not intend to cause the Cycles. Just as the Human Reaper wouldn't have if it had been finished.

Well, the only difference cosmetically is a green hue and the eyes. Everything else must be internal and cognitive. Every synthetic trait I can think of has to be "activated". So if you don't agree with it, don't activate it.

Treat them as we treat our apendixes.

[Pacifien]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Demanding the end does not sound like preserving the essence of the individuals.

I think when they wrote Mass Effect 1, the writers probably only had a vague idea of what the Reapers could have been and they only really started to flesh it out during Mass Effect 2 when they revealed that it was organics that actually formed the building material for the Reapers. Then Harbinger starts saying the Reapers are Shepard's salvation through destruction, so whatever. Sovereign's speech was cool and all, but I wouldn't use his words as evidence for the Reaper's true purpose.

I'm not responding to the rest of this post because I don't believe that Synthesis is a form of mind control that eliminated everyone's free will. Technological singularity? Yes. Shoddy biology science? Yes to that, too. Wouldn't be the first time I saw that in a science fiction game... wouldn't be the first time I saw that in the Mass Effect games either.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Pacifien wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Demanding the end does not sound like preserving the essence of the individuals.

I think when they wrote Mass Effect 1, the writers probably only had a vague idea of what the Reapers could have been and they only really started to flesh it out during Mass Effect 2 when they revealed that it was organics that actually formed the building material for the Reapers. Then Harbinger starts saying the Reapers are Shepard's salvation through destruction, so whatever. Sovereign's speech was cool and all, but I wouldn't use his words as evidence for the Reaper's true purpose.

I'm not responding to the rest of this post because I don't believe that Synthesis is a form of mind control that eliminated everyone's free will. Technological singularity? Yes. Shoddy biology science? Yes to that, too. Wouldn't be the first time I saw that in a science fiction game... wouldn't be the first time I saw that in the Mass Effect games either.

Along the same lines, the role of the synthetics was never to be hostile. After the dark energy script leaked the ending was changed. Suddenly the plot changed into the inevitability of the synthetics threat, eventough no proof exists for that.

If you do not wish to repond to the rest of that post then why mention what you believe anyway? Should I not respond to that? And so on.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 09 juillet 2012 - 01:49 .

[Heeden]

lillitheris wrote...

You still need to define the system, or it’s a rather short debate. What and whence is the rule that Shepard is following?

Spectres are agents entrusted with extraordinary authority by the Citadel Council,including the power of life and death over the inhabitants of the galaxy. They form an elite group selected from a number of different species, and their primary responsibility is to preserve galactic stability by whatever means necessary. Though they are generally  considered as being above the law and have complete discretion as to the methods used to accomplish their mission, an individual's status as a Spectre can be revoked by the Council in a case of a gross misconduct.

Modifié par Heeden, 09 juillet 2012 - 02:05 .

[Pacifien]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Along the same lines, the role of the synthetics was never to be hostile. After the dark energy script leaked the ending was changed. Suddenly the plot changed into the inevitability of the synthetics threat, eventough no proof exists for that.

If you do not wish to repond to the rest of that post then why mention what you believe anyway? Should I not respond to that? And so on.

I actually didn't think stating what I believe was in any way a response to the rest of your post, but I wanted to state it anyway to establish for the record yet again that we are of two minds about what Synthesis exactly does. It's like saying "I see yellow," while you say "I see purple." There's not much I can say to convince you that the color you are seeing is yellow and vice versa.

I didn't like the dark energy ending. I'm glad it was changed. I did recently tell someone what ending I did want and exactly why, but it's absolutely not Synthesis, so I'm not going to go into it here.