9089 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

Yes, that would fit with the transhumanism element of Synthesis. Although said being would be immortal.

Said being would also have no reason to do anything. That's the problem with perfection, once you've achieved it you cannot go higher.

You will sit until the end of time doing God knows what. Unless we've found out how to manipulate time and space (which wouldn't be unheard of seeing as transcending our body is way up there on the Civilization Scale) to prevent your inevitable destruction.

Synthesis is great idea in the wrong place.

[Bill Casey]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I would imagine if we attain immortality Heeden we're going to have some issues. You also need resources...and it just gets fuzzy the further along you go. That's an issue that needs to be raised about Synthesis. Well it's sure cool beans for the mean time but what after "X" occurs?

It's okay that everyone is immortal because EDI says we eliminate overpopulation...
She says this over a picture of Krogan babies...

[Taboo]

Bill Casey wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I would imagine if we attain immortality Heeden we're going to have some issues. You also need resources...and it just gets fuzzy the further along you go. That's an issue that needs to be raised about Synthesis. Well it's sure cool beans for the mean time but what after "X" occurs?

It's okay that everyone is immortal because EDI says we eliminate overpopulation...
She says this over a picture of Krogan babies...

As I've stated before, Synthesis is too fuzzy for me too take seriously anymore. It just isn't valid past a certain point. It would be great in another story, but not here.

But I did notice some forshadowing of the Crucible in LotSB yesterday.

[Bill Casey]

Well, the Alliance have a goal and Cerberus has a goal...
The Reapers want to get in on the ground floor of this crucible thing too...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 16 juillet 2012 - 11:17 .

[Taboo]

The Catalyst is a proxy.

But he does offer his best solution, which is Synthesis.

One might get the "It's what the Reapers want" from that but I think it's a bit more complex.

All it proved to me was that he hasn't taken new variables into account for a LONG time.

[lillitheris]

flemm wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

It says it’ll effect change that will fundamentally alter how all living things in the galaxy are constructed—among other things.

Well, it also describes what that means: organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology; synthetics will in turn finally have full understanding of organics.

What the Catalyst says (the whole scenario of the endings, really) has all kinds of problems. But... if we accept that the Catalyst accurately describes what will happen (in all three endings), there is no reason to fear any brainwashing.

New.

D.

N.

A.

“Being able to interface with technology” is utter f— bulls—. There’s no need for a magic green ray to achieve that.

(Not to mention the ridiculous specieist assumption that synthetic life couldn’t understand organic life except with magic juice—it’s so goddamned stupid that it doesn’t really even merit discussion.)

You want to use your very own Special Magic Thing That Is Almost But Not Entirely Unlike Synthesis? Be my guest.

Modifié par lillitheris, 16 juillet 2012 - 11:35 .

[lillitheris]

flemm wrote...

However, granting everyone the ability to integrate with synthetic technology seems like a reasonable price to pay for ending an eons-old cycle of destruction definitively..

No.

First of all, that’s not all that it costs you.

Secondly, it does not actually definitively stop the cycle of destruction—neither for the Reapers, who still exist, unlike in Destroy, nor for the synthetic/organic conflict that just becomes synthetic/hybrid conflict instead.

It is so utterly f— stupid.

Modifié par lillitheris, 16 juillet 2012 - 11:37 .

[lillitheris]

Anyway, I’m done trying to instill some humanity in this.

I’ll leave you to your reprehensible, stupid violations.

[Taboo]

^ Bahahahaha.

[Shaigunjoe]

Ding!

[Taboo]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Ding!

Are you wearing your Groucho Marx mask?

[Shaigunjoe]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Ding!

Are you wearing your Groucho Marx mask?

I'm not part of that club anymore, I refuse to be part of any club that accepts me as a member.

[Taboo]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Ding!

Are you wearing your Groucho Marx mask?

I'm not part of that club anymore, I refuse to be part of any club that accepts me as a member.

This.

I can see you now, cooking over the stove.

The problem is is that I can't see the stove.

[RiouHotaru]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The Catalyst is a proxy.

But he does offer his best solution, which is Synthesis.

One might get the "It's what the Reapers want" from that but I think it's a bit more complex.

All it proved to me was that he hasn't taken new variables into account for a LONG time.

Holy crap, finally a person who agrees with the whole "The Catalyst is NOT an antagonist." argument!

[Taboo]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The Catalyst is a proxy.

But he does offer his best solution, which is Synthesis.

One might get the "It's what the Reapers want" from that but I think it's a bit more complex.

All it proved to me was that he hasn't taken new variables into account for a LONG time.

Holy crap, finally a person who agrees with the whole "The Catalyst is NOT an antagonist." argument!

That sure as heck doesn't mean I'm picking Synthesis.

But no, he really isn't an antagonist as much as he is "there".

I don't think he has control over the Reapers anymore and has left them to their own devices. I don't think they are aware of his existence either.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Taboo-XX wrote...
That sure as heck doesn't mean I'm picking Synthesis.

But no, he really isn't an antagonist as much as he is "there".

I don't think he has control over the Reapers anymore and has left them to their own devices. I don't think they are aware of his existence either.

The traditional label of antagonist doesn't really applies ot him, but playing god with the galaxy is enough to make him a bad guy in my book, even if true goal was peace.

Can't say I agree with him loosing control of the Reapers though, Control turns Shepard into the new Catalyst, that implies the position comes with a certain authority over them. Fairly sure I heard him saying "I control the Reapers, they are my solution" as well.

[Taboo]

As I said on the previous page. My poor canon Shepard is stuck with Destroy and it's ramifications. But that doesn't mean some other crazy ass Shepard won't pick something else.

But hey, the moral implications of him surviving and spending the the rest of his life brooding about it are far more artistic than railroading me with dreams about that poor child.

ARRRRRRT.

[flemm]

lillitheris wrote...

Secondly, it does not actually definitively stop the cycle of destruction—neither for the Reapers, who still exist, unlike in Destroy, nor for the synthetic/organic conflict that just becomes synthetic/hybrid conflict instead.

The Reapers exist, but they no longer reap. Their existence doesn't imply that the cycle of destruction must continue.

As to the synthetic/hybrid conflict, where are you getting this idea?

lillitheris wrote...
It is so utterly f— stupid.

I understand that you do not like it. But that, in itself, doesn't make it more morally reprehensible than the other endings.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Not sure how that relates, I was just arguing a plot point, catalyst still controls the Reapers.

"ARRRRT"
*takes shot*

[Taboo]

Well, in theory, the new hybrids could create new Synthetics.

But if we're at an understanding...

All of the endings are reprehensible, but at the end of the day it really just boils down to who you're going to violate, how, and for how long.

Depending on the person or Shepard, that could be any number of different things.

[Aurora313]

Taboo-XX wrote...

No because glossing things over is wrong.

You need to admit that. Everyone else has.

Synthesis fans have a tendency to ignore everything negative about their ending. I'm sorry but you cannot have debate this way. Either all of the cards are on the table or you can't sit down. Stop playing games.

Synthesis has a sh!t load of problems with its ending, I feel the same about Control and Destroy. No matter what you do, Shepard plays god and his/her actions permanently alter the status quo.

Hell, I expect people to hate Shepard for all time for synthesis, I expect that there would be some would even try to reverse the process entirely and re-establish the line between sythentic and organic, who would try to blow the sh!t out of the Reapers despite no longer being supposedly hostile. Some who might be so disgusted they would take their own lives rather than live like that. Some people who thought Shepard sold them out in a mass indoctrination.

Hell, I expect tensions to rise between supporters and haters to the point of a goddamned civil war.

Please don't think I've glossed it over completely.

Modifié par Aurora313, 17 juillet 2012 - 02:27 .

[alienatedflea]

lillitheris wrote...

No.

First of all, that’s not all that it costs you.

Secondly, it does not actually definitively stop the cycle of destruction—neither for the Reapers, who still exist, unlike in Destroy, nor for the synthetic/organic conflict that just becomes synthetic/hybrid conflict instead.

It is so utterly f— stupid.

You Mad bro?

[alienatedflea]

Aurora313 wrote...


Synthesis has a sh!t load of problems with its ending, I feel the same about Control and Destroy. No matter what you do, Shepard plays god and his/her actions permanently alter the status quo.

Hell, I expect people to hate Shepard for all time for synthesis, I expect that there would be some would even try to reverse the process entirely and re-establish the line between sythentic and organic, who would try to blow the sh!t out of the Reapers despite no longer being supposedly hostile. Some who might be so disgusted they would take their own lives rather than live like that. Some people who thought Shepard sold them out in a mass indoctrination.

Hell, I expect tensions to rise between supporters and haters to the point of a goddamned civil war.

Please don't think I've glossed it over completely.

clearly then pick refusal everytime...

[alienatedflea]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Not sure how that relates, I was just arguing a plot point, catalyst still controls the Reapers.

"ARRRRT"
*takes shot*

huh? catalyst ceases to be in both control and synthesis...what are you talking about?

[Aurora313]

alienatedflea wrote...
clearly then pick refusal everytime...

No, my fem!shep picks synthesis without exception. Equality and understanding are things that she's always strived for. Ironically and somehow fitting, she's one of the most misunderstood people in her headcanon. She realises the moral implications and accepts it. She's Earthborn ruthless, but is probably the only completely Paragon Shepard Ive got. ****** her off however, and you'll see her Ruthless face.

My Shepards all pick the endings that suit their personalities. My EB M!Shep always considered Anderson a father, and Anderson wished to destroy the Reapers, so as a kind of last request, Shepard did so. It's a childish mindset, but that's how that M!Shepard ticks. Shepard always wanted Anderson's approval as a mentor, and he got it. And as repayment, he fulfilled Anderson's last wish of seeing the Reapers destroyed.

Whatever, you get the point. The endings suit whatever personality my Shepard's have.

Modifié par Aurora313, 17 juillet 2012 - 04:54 .