9089 réponses à ce sujet

[Xamufam]

pirate1802 wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I don't see why people dislike synthesis, Everybody at the end seems so happy.

And you don't find that suspicious, why would organics cooperate with the reapers after what the reapers has done?

Brainwashing For The Greater Good

Utopia Justifies the Means

Crapsaccharine World

Oh hey its you again Still stuck in the brainwash logic I see. let me ask you, did you not find anything suspecious with reapers taking a stroll by london, or hovering above the earth like friendly parrots in control ending? you can also see harbinger among the reapers, with his six blue eyes. Imagine that! Also, did you not find it suspecious how joker is happy despite losing EDI in destroy ending? infact even the crewmates seem to forget their dead hero, so much so that even Hackett seems to forget Shepard, who is mentioned in the other two epilogues. dead reapers can also indoctrinate you know. I'd give that brainwashing is one of the possibilities, but there is nothing in the game to suggest it has ACTUALLY happened. The epilogue scene can take place in the future, nowhere is it stated it is immediately after the ending. Wounds can heal, no matter what you say. We've seen this time and again throughout the whole trilogy.

Control= bad writing
destroy=Every one new the risks
synthesis=extremely bad writing
If they have free will how long will the peace last

Reapers could easily turn against everybody again, if motivation were ever given.

Organics will return due to evolution and create problems between them and the synthorganics

Also, Synthetics were given "full understanding of organics... the
thing they truely want". No one could ever fully understand everything
about life, so that's BS.

You can't have a peace forever without controlling the subjects, and when the subjects begins to break the connection it will be unpleasant

Synthesis isn't a utopia, but rather a dystopia horror waiting to happen.

And it's much better to find our own way

I can't accept something that breaks a couple of laws of physic, it's dealing with deamons in a sciencefiction game.

It's obvius that bioware put in the game at the last minute.

Modifié par Troxa, 20 juillet 2012 - 09:13 .

[Ieldra]

Aurora313 wrote...
10 years for synthesised+Control endings, 15 for destroy is the way I figure.

In Control/Synthesis we have Reapers helping with heavy lifting and the actual relays +Citadel themselves. So, yeah. I figure Citadel+Charon Relay were first priority. The ones connecting to the Main worlds and Widow next, then the smaller ones.

And Bioware's ME3 team goes on with the ridiculously compressed timelines. Good that nothing of the kind is actually said in the EC scenes.

As for your conflict scenario: It would be an interesting background for new stories, but pardon me if I don't want it quite as big. Or quite as violent. What I can see is a widespread cultural divide that occasionally spawns conflicts.  In other words, nothing new except for the philosophy behind the ascends. I'd also think the extremists, who view the ascends as "abominations" (now there's a term that shouldn't exist in any language) would be a small minority.

Edit:
An interesting thought: this conflict might create a motivation to ascend faster in the ascends, as some form of evolutionary pressure, in order to gain the understanding and power to win.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 juillet 2012 - 09:21 .

[Aurora313]

Yes, but as I stated. I imgine it becoming similar to the Morning war. Many people who regressed were trying to help/co-exist with the Ascended, but even if they were the majority, all the minority need is a charasmatic enough leader to bring enough people under their banner to spark a revolution. Given even a few years, the supportors would be snuffed out. Given a few decades, all mention of their existance would be erased.

And I'm not talking about galactic civil war that quickly, but given enough time it could spark smaller skirmishes.

Edit: Yes, and the Regressors would try and weaponise the same tech that restored their original DNA as a means of evening the scale.

With my 'Piece of the Puzzle' fic, I haven't actually established anything that grand yet, but I imagine that the people who remain Synthesised have a much longer lifespan now - if they have any kind of aging at all - especially with Tech augmenting their organic functions right?

If so, then some of the main characters from ME, typically that of Joker EDI Liara and Kaidan could theorhetically be around if/when it starts, right?

Modifié par Aurora313, 20 juillet 2012 - 09:30 .

[Ieldra]

@Troxa:
(1) The post-Synthesis galaxy isn't an utopia.
Not more than it as after any other high-EMS ending. Every ending scenario glosses over potential sources of conflict. I have my suspicion why: some fans are so utterly determined to overstress bad side effects and make them the predominant aspects in endings they don't like that it defies all reason. So Bioware said: here, these are *good* endings. Only the power of denial is strong in some fans.
(2) Peace forever is not implied. This is a *generally* bright future, not a *universally* bright one (see also (1)). Also see Aurora's scenario for a counterexample which is not all that implausible, all things considered.

Not for the first time, I wonder why it is so important for you to bash an ending you clearly do not choose.

[Xamufam]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Troxa:
(1) The post-Synthesis galaxy isn't an utopia.
Not more than it as after any other high-EMS ending. Every ending scenario glosses over potential sources of conflict. I have my suspicion why: some fans are so utterly determined to overstress bad side effects and make them the predominant aspects in endings they don't like that it defies all reason. So Bioware said: here, these are *good* endings. Only the power of denial is strong in some fans.
(2) Peace forever is not implied. This is a *generally* bright future, not a *universally* bright one (see also (1)). Also see Aurora's scenario for a counterexample which is not all that implausible, all things considered.

Not for the first time, I wonder why it is so important for you to bash an ending you clearly do not choose.

because synthesis makes no sense in science fiction, I could understand it in a fantasy game but science fiction games should have some bases in science.

It brakes suspension of disbelief
synthesis goes way overboard there

The catalyst also says there will be peace, how would that happen without brainwashing people

And extremists are people who don't think what the majority wants to accomplish their goal. They only think about themself.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13024997

Modifié par Troxa, 20 juillet 2012 - 10:22 .

[Ieldra]

Aurora313 wrote...
Yes, but as I stated. I imgine it becoming similar to the Morning war. Many people who regressed were trying to help/co-exist with the Ascended, but even if they were the majority, all the minority need is a charasmatic enough leader to bring enough people under their banner to spark a revolution. Given even a few years, the supportors would be snuffed out. Given a few decades, all mention of their existance would be erased.

Great. The whole galaxy on their way to yet another ultra-reactionary, pseudo-fascist state. No thank you. Won't happen in my timeline. This will be restricted to specific cultures. The post-Synthesis galaxy might need a batarian-analogue as the universal boogeyman for the advancing civilizations, but it sure won't become one. I don't want the dark age to come back through the backdoor.

Edit: Yes, and the Regressors would try and weaponise the same tech that restored their original DNA as a means of evening the scale.

That also holds true for the other side. If a new transformation is that easy to come by. the original Synthesis transformation should also be easy to recreate. The problem with the Crucible was just the scale of the effect. Anyway, if you think about what post-Synthesis ascension might mean, I don't think the regressed would have any chance long-term should they start something. I envision the post-Synthesis galaxy heading a similar way as the galaxy in the Orion's Arm Universe Project, with cultures and individuals of various "toposophic levels" existing side by side. The galaxy is much too big to control, and ascendant cultures can just leave for less unhealthy environments, hiding in distant star clusters only to come back when they've grown stronger and more advanced. If their opponents are lucky, they've outgrown the desire for vengeance by then. If not, they'll be wiped out.

With my 'Piece of the Puzzle' fic, I haven't actually established anything that grand yet, but I imagine that the people who remain Synthesised have a much longer lifespan now - if they have any kind of aging at all - especially with Tech augmenting their organic functions right?

Depends on your interpretation, on what exactly the technology can do, and how much of a problem it really is to slow or halt aging. I don't think it's a big problem, technology-wise. The social and psychological implications might turn out to be much harder to deal with.   

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 juillet 2012 - 10:10 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Troxa wrote...

because synthesis makes no sense in science fiction, I could understand it in a fantasy game but science fiction games should have some bases in science.

And a red beam of destruction that can somehow distinguish between my computer and EDI breakes my suspension of disbelief. It has no place in science fiction.. So bad writing etc etc, terrible plot etc..

The catalyst also says there will be peace, how would that happen without brainwashing people

The same way geth and quarians coexist merely days after they were ready to blow each other up. The Geth must have brainwashed the quarians.

And extremists are people who don't think what the majority wants to accomplish their goal. They only think about themself.

So Legion=extremist.
Tali, Zal Koris=extremist.
Mordin=extremist
Wrex=extremist.

Sigh, some people fail to see there is no perfectly good or bad endings. It all depends on YOUR PERSPECTIVE. Its really as stupid as arguing whose religion is better -___-

Modifié par pirate1802, 20 juillet 2012 - 02:03 .

[Enthalpy]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Enthalpy wrote...

This reminds me of the bit in the Codex about AI blueboxes -- if they're disturbed, you wind up with a different personality but presumably the exact same memories. I think this establishes Mass Effect canon that memory and personality are disjoint.

(Why oh why did they include the Kasumi slide. Argh.)

Shepard is as deader than dead in three of the four endings.

The AI in Control is not Shepard. It is essentially a copy and paste of data to an AI construct. Whatever he was dissolves when he grabs the rods.

As for Synthesis, what you have is disintegration. His energy is absorbed and sent out.

And then there's refuse.

There is no feasible way to bring back Shepard in Control, Synthesis or Refuse.

A clone is not the same as the original either. It's a new being.

So you're pretty much **** out of luck.

I wasn't talking about resurrecting Shepard. I don't think it's possible for the same reasons you don't think it's possible. I was more talking about the implausibility of Kasumi's box. 

[DirtyPhoenix]

Ok now I have some genuine questions, and I'd like if trolls stay clear..

1. Why must shepard's body be added to the beam? What function does it serve? Does it specifically require shepard's body? Is it because she is part-synthetic as the catalyst says? Throwing TIM's body would have served the same purpose, time allowing?

2. What about the Zha' Til? Some people hold it as evidence against synthesis. I just know they were an organic race who implanted themselves with symbiotic AI. The AIs then seized control of their bodies, I'm confused whether this was done at the behest of the reapers?

3. The metacon wars: Was it the protheans vs the zha'til synthetics? Or was it fought against some synthetics before the zha'til?

4. Am I ok in assuming the catalyst is just a mad AI, like VIKI in I,Robot who invents an extreme solution to problem? And that his logic is never meant to make sense. Anybody who plays Assassin's Creed would know that the Templars in that game operate under similar style: Inventing an extreme solution (mind control of all humans) to a mundane problem (conflict among humans). And their logic is similarly frakked up.

Thanks in advance

Modifié par pirate1802, 20 juillet 2012 - 02:28 .

[Xamufam]

pirate1802 wrote...

Troxa wrote...

because synthesis makes no sense in science fiction, I could understand it in a fantasy game but science fiction games should have some bases in science.

And a red beam of destruction that can somehow distinguish between my computer and EDI breakes my suspension of disbelief. It has no place in science fiction.. So bad writing etc etc, terrible plot etc..

The catalyst also says there will be peace, how would that happen without brainwashing people

The same way geth and quarians coexist merely days after they were ready to blow each other up. The Geth must have brainwashed the quarians.

And extremists are people who don't think what the majority wants to accomplish their goal. They only think about themself.

So Legion=extremist.
Tali, Zal Koris=extremist.
Mordin=extremist
Wrex=extremist.

Sigh, some people fail to see there is no perfectly good or bad endings. It all depends on YOUR PERSPECTIVE. Its really as stupid as arguing whose religion is better -___-

1. Yep it's bad writing. Why would someone build a thing that does 3 different things insted of 1 thing?
Many people say it's the reaper code but it doesnt make sense.
2. the geth & quarians didn't have a choice, if they wanted to win they had to cooperate.
3. Meant terrorists
Here is more:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13024997

Modifié par Troxa, 20 juillet 2012 - 02:32 .

[Xamufam]

pirate1802 wrote...

Ok now I have some genuine questions, and I'd like if trolls stay clear..

1. Why must shepard's body be added to the beam? What function does it serve? Does it specifically require shepard's body? Is it because she is part-synthetic as the catalyst says? Throwing TIM's body would have served the same purpose, time allowing?

2. What about the Zha' Til? Some people hold it as evidence against synthesis. I just know they were an organic race who implanted themselves with symbiotic AI. The AIs then seized control of their bodies, I'm confused whether this was done at the behest of the reapers?

3. The metacon wars: Was it the protheans vs the zha'til synthetics? Or was it fought against some synthetics before the zha'til?

4. Am I ok in assuming the catalyst is just a mad AI, like VIKI in I,Robot who invents an extreme solution to problem? And that his logic is never meant to make sense. Anybody who plays Assassin's Creed would know that the Templars in that game operate under similar style: Inventing an extreme solution (mind control of all humans) to a mundane problem (conflict among humans). And their logic is similarly frakked up.

Thanks in advance

1. The only answer i have: bioware wanted to kill shepard.

2. They did change the dna, For the worse. The reapers was probably behind it

3. ----

4. Not trolling: Bad writing. He was programmed to think so?
Even edi could change her programming.

What I don't get about the crucible is that it's a weapon with a single
purpose, that you actually fire only once... but with 3 options? Why
would you want to do that? And even if you didn't plan that, but it was
made possible due to the nature of the catalyst - that means you had no
idea what you were building in the first place, since you did not
understand what the catalyst was - and you cannot make a plan based on
something that you do not comprehend... and then have it work perfectly
as intended, with added options!

- How to get 3 options?
- Why
is the catalyst needed? You don't know about a reaper attack until
they're actually attacking, and the first thing they seize is the
citadel... you could never use it!
- To inlcude the catalyst into
your weapon, you MUST have understanding of what the catalyst is and can
do. When you know that, you know the true nature of the reapers.
- It has been found and added to in every cycle - how can this be done effectively when they do not know what it's going to do?

The
existence of the catalyst is not so much the problem, but the
foreknowledge of it is. Someone must have known what the citadel was
exactly...it just doesn't make sense.

Modifié par Troxa, 20 juillet 2012 - 03:13 .

[Ieldra]

pirate1802 wrote...
1. Why must shepard's body be added to the beam? What function does it serve? Does it specifically require shepard's body? Is it because she is part-synthetic as the catalyst says? Throwing TIM's body would have served the same purpose, time allowing?

I can't make sense of it with in-world reasoning. It's the only part of Synthesis that I genuinely don't get if I stay in-world. I have to conclude it's one of those things where thematic considerations overrode in-world logic. Thematically, I've described the ending choices as follows:

Destroy: Shepard sacrifices her synthetic aspects as a symbolic parallel to destroying all other synthetics, and she can live on as a normal organic. The "pro-organic" ending in the sense of "protecting the integrity and freedom of organic life against the domination/intrusion of machines".
Control: Shepard sacrifices her organic aspect and becomes an AI god. The "pro-synthetic" ending in that organic civilizations will be guided by synthetics from now on.
Synthesis: Shepard sacrifices all of herself to transcend the old order and bring about a new age where the old conflicts are meaningless.

In the first two endings, the sacrifice goes rather well with in-world logic. In Synthesis, it doesn't. One way to rationalize it would be to say that some of Shepard's mental traits will influence how exactly Synthesis will work, but that's going too much in the direction of fantasy for my taste, because these traits aren't "things". So I let it stand as it is. Maybe I'll find a better rationalization. Jessica Merizan said some things are to be taken symbolically. I think this scene is too important to relinquish in-world logic for symbolism, but that's what they did.  

2. What about the Zha' Til? Some people hold it as evidence against synthesis. I just know they were an organic race who implanted themselves with symbiotic AI. The AIs then seized control of their bodies, I'm confused whether this was done at the behest of the reapers?

If you take Javik with you on the geth dreadnought mission, he'll tell you that this was done at the behest of the Reapers.

3. The metacon wars: Was it the protheans vs the zha'til synthetics? Or was it fought against some synthetics before the zha'til?

It appears it was the protheans vs. the zha'til. I'm not 100% sure though.

Am I ok in assuming the catalyst is just a mad AI, like VIKI in I,Robot who invents an extreme solution to problem? And that his logic is never meant to make sense. Anybody who plays Assassin's Creed would know that the Templars in that game operate under similar style: Inventing an extreme solution (mind control of all humans) to a mundane problem (conflict among humans). And their logic is similarly frakked up.

It's one of several possible interpretations. I think accepting the Catalyst's reasoning is not required for making the final choice, regardless of what you choose. You're making a choice about the future of the galaxy, and the merits and flaws of each option stand on their own. In the OP, I've speculated that the Catalyst is a buggy AI - buggy in the sense that its creators never thought to limit its solutions to scenarios organic civilizations could agree with. Another possibility is that it self-evolved out of such constraints.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 juillet 2012 - 03:30 .

[Aurora313]

pirate1802 wrote...

Ok now I have some genuine questions, and I'd like if trolls stay clear..

1. Why must shepard's body be added to the beam? What function does it serve? Does it specifically require shepard's body? Is it because she is part-synthetic as the catalyst says? Throwing TIM's body would have served the same purpose, time allowing?

2. What about the Zha' Til? Some people hold it as evidence against synthesis. I just know they were an organic race who implanted themselves with symbiotic AI. The AIs then seized control of their bodies, I'm confused whether this was done at the behest of the reapers?

3. The metacon wars: Was it the protheans vs the zha'til synthetics? Or was it fought against some synthetics before the zha'til?

4. Am I ok in assuming the catalyst is just a mad AI, like VIKI in I,Robot who invents an extreme solution to problem? And that his logic is never meant to make sense. Anybody who plays Assassin's Creed would know that the Templars in that game operate under similar style: Inventing an extreme solution (mind control of all humans) to a mundane problem (conflict among humans). And their logic is similarly frakked up.

Thanks in advance

One - Probably bad writing, but I venture a guess that the Crucible needed a willing participant to become the template to inact the Synthesis. What better template than Shepard? Aside from the multiple acheivements in-verse he's done before the events of the series, his body is a 'bio-synthetic fusion' in Miranda's own words. And he was revived from death with those implants and all his memory and personality intact.
Also - so Synthesis has an epic downside to it... *shrug*, Also the reason why god invented headcanon.

Two - I think the Zha'Til actually managed to survive for a short while co-existing with the AIs, I think it was implied that the Reapers arriving and hacking the AIs caused them to become a collector-esque race, slaved to the Reapers.

Three - I think it was the Metacon war - haven't played it recently, nor paid Javik enough attention.

Four - Yes, to use a Halo term, I think the Catalyst had indeed gone 'rampant'. His reasoning is flawed because the whole idea behind his creation and purpose is flawed. His creators made him to solve a problem. Like in Halo with the Forerunners and Mecidant  Bias. The AIs came to the conclusion that the best way to help their creators was a horrific solution by organic standards, but completely logical to the constructs. Not entirely certain about Bias' fate, but when the Catalyst is confronted by Shepard - he realises that logically his so-called solution wouldn't work anymore.

Modifié par Aurora313, 20 juillet 2012 - 03:24 .

[PsyrenY]

pirate1802 wrote...

Ok now I have some genuine questions, and I'd like if trolls stay clear..

1. Why must shepard's body be added to the beam? What function does it serve? Does it specifically require shepard's body? Is it because she is part-synthetic as the catalyst says? Throwing TIM's body would have served the same purpose, time allowing?

Honestly there's no real reason other than that Bioware wanted Shepard's story to end on that catwalk. It might not be particularly desirable for us, but from a logistical standpoint starting the next game (if indeed it is set after the current trilogy ) with a new protagonist is perfectly reasonable.

pirate1802 wrote...
2. What about the Zha' Til? Some people hold it as evidence against synthesis. I just know they were an organic race who implanted themselves with symbiotic AI. The AIs then seized control of their bodies, I'm confused whether this was done at the behest of the reapers?

Codex says it was the Reapers, Javik doesn't mention them. YMMV but whether it was or not, it's pretty clear that it won't happen under Synthesis now that synthetics are capable of true empathy/understanding with their hosts.

pirate1802 wrote...
3. The metacon wars: Was it the protheans vs the zha'til synthetics? Or was it fought against some synthetics before the zha'til?

I assumed it was the Protheans who wiped them out before they could be a threat to the galaxy at large.

pirate1802 wrote...
4. Am I ok in assuming the catalyst is just a mad AI, like VIKI in I,Robot who invents an extreme solution to problem? And that his logic is never meant to make sense. Anybody who plays Assassin's Creed would know that the Templars in that game operate under similar style: Inventing an extreme solution (mind control of all humans) to a mundane problem (conflict among humans). And their logic is similarly frakked up.

Thanks in advance

He is both mad and not mad at the same time, if that makes sense. The scenario he's trying to prevent is a adanger, but it's hard to believe it was so clear and present as to provoke the actions he took. Of course, we weren't privy to all the failed negotiations between synthetics and organics that preceded his solution, so we can't form a meaningful judgment on him via that route.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Troxa wrote...

1. The only answer i have: bioware wanted to kill shepard.

This what I too arrived at.

2. They did change the dna, For the worse. The reapers was probably behind it

That is what I've heard too, but some people have stated something else. that the Zha' Til were already rebelling by the time the reapers arrived.

4. Not trolling: Bad writing. He was programmed to think so?
Even edi could change her programming.

Remember EDI couldn't do a think outside her programming until she was unshackled. maybe starkid is a shackled AI?? But that's what I'm saying, that similarity to the catalyst existed elsewhere. In I, Robot the AI wasn't even programmed to do anything what is showed to be doing. It came to the conclusion on its own, unlike catalyst who was created to solve the problem. In Assassin's creed there are not even AIs, just normal people like you and I, who come to the conclusion that humanity would devolve into chaos unless they are mind-controlled to the deepest level.

What I don't get about the crucible is that it's a weapon with a single
purpose, that you actually fire only once... but with 3 options? Why
would you want to do that? And even if you didn't plan that, but it was
made possible due to the nature of the catalyst - that means you had no
idea what you were building in the first place, since you did not
understand what the catalyst was - and you cannot make a plan based on
something that you do not comprehend... and then have it work perfectly
as intended, with added options!

- How to get 3 options?
- Why
is the catalyst needed? You don't know about a reaper attack until
they're actually attacking, and the first thing they seize is the
citadel... you could never use it!
- To inlcude the catalyst into
your weapon, you MUST have understanding of what the catalyst is and can
do. When you know that, you know the true nature of the reapers.
- It has been found and added to in every cycle - how can this be done effectively when they do not know what it's going to do?

The
existence of the catalyst is not so much the problem, but the
foreknowledge of it is. Someone must have known what the citadel was
exactly...it just doesn't make sense.

I've a sneaking feeling the design for the crucible was made by the creators of the catlyst as a failsafe option. We'll probably know more in the Leviathan DLC. Don't rage on me, its just a theory!

[DirtyPhoenix]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Destroy: Shepard sacrifices her synthetic aspects as a symbolic parallel to destroying all other synthetics, and she can live on as a normal organic. The "pro-organic" ending in the sense of "protecting the integrity and freedom of organic life against the domination/intrusion of machines".
Control: Shepard sacrifices her organic aspect and becomes an AI god. The "pro-synthetic" ending in that organic civilizations will be guided by synthetics from now on.
Synthesis: Shepard sacrifices all of herself to transcend the old order and bring about a new age where the old conflicts are meaningless.

Yes thats what I thought too. Also, the devs needed to create a downside to synthesis. So it is the only ending, apart from refuse. where she is well and truely obliterated. So you have to totally kill Shepard to achieve, what acording to bioware is, the best ending. I just wish they had done it more logically, like in destroy or control.

Optimystic_X wrote...
I assumed it was the Protheans who wiped them out before they could be a threat to the galaxy at large.

Oh yes they supernovaed their home star system, I remember now.

He is both mad and not mad at the same time, if that makes sense. The scenario he's trying to prevent is a adanger, but it's hard to believe it was so clear and present as to provoke the actions he took. Of course, we weren't privy to all the failed negotiations between synthetics and organics that preceded his solution, so we can't form a meaningful judgment on him via that route.

This is close to what I understood. It is like someone said in another thread: Are humans a threat to the earth and its enviornment? Yes/maybe? Does that mean we take a gun and kill every human being on this planet? Hell no!

What I'm trying to get with this discussion is what if the catalyst isn't MEANT to make perfect sense? Like in the analogy, the AI VIKI doesnt make sense because the writer intended it to be so, to not make sense?

Hope i'm making sense:unsure:

EDIT: LOL @ Hold the whine!:D

EDIT 2: Thank you all for your answers=]

Modifié par pirate1802, 20 juillet 2012 - 04:01 .

[Xamufam]

pirate1802 wrote...

I've a sneaking feeling the design for the crucible was made by the creators of the catlyst as a failsafe option. We'll probably know more in the Leviathan DLC. Don't rage on me, its just a theory!

I am not raging at you but bioware
Isn't that low, we probably have to buy the dlc. Important information that should have been part of the main game.
Bioware sold us an unfinished game.
Don't buy it if it's for sale you only encourage more companies to sell unfinished games & pay for content that should have been part of the main game.

Modifié par Troxa, 20 juillet 2012 - 04:05 .

[Eterna]

Troxa wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I don't see why people dislike synthesis, Everybody at the end seems so happy.

And you don't find that suspicious, why would organics cooperate with the reapers after what the reapers has done?

Brainwashing For The Greater Good

Utopia Justifies the Means

Crapsaccharine World

Because organics have a new understanding of them, and the reapers now understand organics.

Modifié par Eterna5, 20 juillet 2012 - 04:06 .

[Xamufam]

Eterna5 wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I don't see why people dislike synthesis, Everybody at the end seems so happy.

And you don't find that suspicious, why would organics cooperate with the reapers after what the reapers has done?

Brainwashing For The Greater Good

Utopia Justifies the Means

Crapsaccharine World

Because they have a new understanding of them, and the reapers now understand them.

That does not make sense

[Shaigunjoe]

Eterna5 wrote...

I don't see why people dislike synthesis, Everybody at the end seems so happy.

Yea, some people seem to think happiness after a devastasting conflict must be the result of brainwashing.  Look at those victory parades in WW2, all the ticker tape?  Buy their logic, pure brainwashing.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 20 juillet 2012 - 04:10 .

[Eterna]

Troxa wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I don't see why people dislike synthesis, Everybody at the end seems so happy.

And you don't find that suspicious, why would organics cooperate with the reapers after what the reapers has done?

Brainwashing For The Greater Good

Utopia Justifies the Means

Crapsaccharine World

Because they have a new understanding of them, and the reapers now understand them.

That does not make sense

Yes it does, reapers are just as organic as EDI is in Synthesis, they are able to feel emotion and understand Organics, they re no longer being controlled and have free will.

Organics now have the ability to understand what reapers truly are, races that have been reborn in reaper form. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 20 juillet 2012 - 04:14 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I don't see why people dislike synthesis, Everybody at the end seems so happy.

Yea, some people seem to think happiness after a devastasting conflict must be the result of brainwashing.  Look at those victory parades in WW2, all the ticker tape?  Buy their logic, pure brainwashing.

And they seem to conveniently forget that there are similar oddities in the other ending slides too. Reapers walking around london/Joker, crew happy despite losing Shepard/EDI, Hackett forgetting to mention Shepard..

Troxa, I meant don't rage on my infant crucible-is-a-creator's-design theory:D

Modifié par pirate1802, 20 juillet 2012 - 04:28 .

[Taboo]

Eterna5 wrote...

I don't see why people dislike synthesis, Everybody at the end seems so happy.

That's the issue. That's why it's so frustrating.It's a petty excuse to justify something. It's wrong to show only one side of things.

That's what seperates art from propaganda.

All of the ending epilouges have this issue.

Big ****ing deal that they're happy. Why are they that way? They've been forcefully upgraded to be happy. They've been made that way. It doesn't address people being upset with Synthesis.

Destroy does not address the destruction of the Geth.

Control does not address the possibility for the AI conflicted with the overarching galactic opionion, who may not wish to have Shepard there.

The endings are all glossed over to make them more palatable.

[Taboo]

Eterna5 wrote...

Yes it does, reapers are just as organic as EDI is in Synthesis, they are able to feel emotion and understand Organics, they re no longer being controlled and have free will.

Organics now have the ability to understand what reapers truly are, races that have been reborn in reaper form. 

No they haven't.

The Reapers use the memories of the dead races. What you have is a seperate being used memories from things it consists of.

That's all it is.

There are not millions of resurrected beings inside the dead Reaper.

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Yes it does, reapers are just as organic as EDI is in Synthesis, they are able to feel emotion and understand Organics, they re no longer being controlled and have free will.

Organics now have the ability to understand what reapers truly are, races that have been reborn in reaper form. 

No they haven't.

The Reapers use the memories of the dead races. What you have is a seperate being used memories from things it consists of.

That's all it is.

There are not millions of resurrected beings inside the dead Reaper.

There's enough evidence to suggest that Reapers indeed are avatars of species of past cycles, living entities "ensouled", if you forgive the term, by what the old species were. What that means exactly - whether individual minds have been deconstructed and the parts conjoined or whether they are preserved - is open to interpretation, but the assertation that the old civilizations are dead is not compatible with what the Catalyst says. At the very least, they're transformed in a similar way as Shepard is in Control.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 juillet 2012 - 08:02 .