9087 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Nyoka wrote...

You should add that to the list of common objections.

"What if people are not okay with it?"
"While it's true that this obliterates freedom, it's a price I'm happy to pay."

http://www.youtube.c...N3xtUu44#t=238s

[Taboo]

antares_sublight wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
We have peace between Organics and Synthetics but what does it resolve besides that?

The only apparent benefit of Synthesis is a promised peace between non-synthetics and a theoretical future synthetic race that is assumed to arrive at some point, but is never actually confirmed.

So people are still ***holes? You are the same biologically but you don't think so!

We haven't really changed then.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 22 mai 2012 - 08:03 .

[dreman9999]

antares_sublight wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
We have peace between Organics and Synthetics but what does it resolve besides that?

The only apparent benefit of Synthesis is a promised peace between non-synthetics and a theoretical future synthetic race that is assumed to arrive at some point, but is never actually confirmed.

The problem with that concept is how synthetics are a threat in the first place.

[Ieldra]

@antares:
Why that detailmongering? I have no idea. I could pull a solution out of my ass but what would that prove? What does your pulling threats out of your ass prove? It is irrelevant. The post-ending universe is for us to describe. You pulling horrific possibilities out of your ass doesn't prove anything if you can't show it's plausible that they will indeed happen. Will there be something like mind-hacking? Possibly, but there'll also be measures against it. New wonders, and new horrors both. It is irrelevant as long as you can't show the horrors do more damage than the wonders do good.

Well, in fact I would love to go into those details, because I'm a worldbuilder at heart, but I just know you're setting a rhetorical trap. Whatever I say, you'll try to use it against me because your agenda is to discredit Synthesis for whatever mysterious reason. Sorry, I won't bite. I'll relegate that to stories I might write later, or the tabletop RPG session set in a post-Synthesis ME universe world I've started.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 mai 2012 - 08:14 .

[mjh417]

Synthesis, just like the other two options, but perhaps even more so, is Shepard (or really the player) being forced to endorse sadomasochistic fascism.

All the themes of freedom, diversity, and facing overwhelming odds of death and devastation head on with courage, integrity, and hope of a better tomorrow are spit on in favor of nihilistic defeatism whee the only solutions are to accept that you were born sick but are hopelessly demanded to be well by your all mighty overlord who only by subscribing to his rigid ways of thinking, his "final solution" can you have a chance to no longer be the sick and disgusting creature he tells you and all like you that you are.

[Taboo]

I still haven't figured out why it's necessary if we're simply going to be the same.

What's to stop the newly upgraded, genophage cured Krogans from going ape?

Implications....

[dreman9999]

mjh417 wrote...

Synthesis, just like the other two options, but perhaps even more so, is Shepard (or really the player) being forced to endorse sadomasochistic fascism.

All the themes of freedom, diversity, and facing overwhelming odds of death and devastation head on with courage, integrity, and hope of a better tomorrow are spit on in favor of nihilistic defeatism whee the only solutions are to accept that you were born sick but are hopelessly demanded to be well by your all mighty overlord who only by subscribing to his rigid ways of thinking, his "final solution" can you have a chance to no longer be the sick and disgusting creature he tells you and all like you that you are.

.....You really want to ignore the fact your dealing with machines with a history of get deception....You basicly going on a"I hope he's right" hunch.

[MisterJB]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I still haven't figured out why it's necessary if we're simply going to be the same.

What's to stop the newly upgraded, genophage cured Krogans from going ape?

Implications....

Synthesis is not meant to prevent future conflicts between organics. It exists to solve the conflict between organics and synthetics. How it does that is open to interpretation.

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...
I still haven't figured out why it's necessary if we're simply going to be the same.

What's to stop the newly upgraded, genophage cured Krogans from going ape?

Implications....

Nothing of course....except that in my universe the genophage isn't cured.

Gods, I feel like a prayer wheel. Normal enmity was never the problem. The drastically different speed of advancement between organics and synthetics was the problem. There will still be wars. Maybe some species will go extinct from them. Just not intelligent life of basically organic nature. There still is life whose basic nature is organic, even if upgraded by synthetic aspects. Anything else would make no sense since the basic goal of the Catalyst - preserving organic life - would be defeated.

[dreman9999]

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I still haven't figured out why it's necessary if we're simply going to be the same.

What's to stop the newly upgraded, genophage cured Krogans from going ape?

Implications....

Synthesis is not meant to prevent future conflicts between organics. It exists to solve the conflict between organics and synthetics. How it does that is open to interpretation.

And yet you forget the fact that the starchild gurentees that it will.http://www.youtube.c...ZuSHpWwo#t=287s

[dreman9999]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
I still haven't figured out why it's necessary if we're simply going to be the same.

What's to stop the newly upgraded, genophage cured Krogans from going ape?

Implications....

Nothing of course....except that in my universe the genophage isn't cured.

That explain every thing....You can't trust the krogan but you can trust the star child.

[Ieldra]

dreman9999 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I still haven't figured out why it's necessary if we're simply going to be the same.

What's to stop the newly upgraded, genophage cured Krogans from going ape?

Implications....

Synthesis is not meant to prevent future conflicts between organics. It exists to solve the conflict between organics and synthetics. How it does that is open to interpretation.

And yet you forget the fact that the starchild gurentees that it will.http://www.youtube.c...ZuSHpWwo#t=287s

Where did you get that from? Nothing of the kind is even remotely suggested in the conversation. Everything the Catalyst says refers to the organic/synthetic conflict. The context is completely unambiguous.

[Taboo]

Then it really doesn't do much of anything to cure the other existential risk we all fear. Someone else could wipe us out.

We remove the fear of being destroyed by our creations.

It still doesn't sound pleasant.

[dreman9999]

Ieldra2 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I still haven't figured out why it's necessary if we're simply going to be the same.

What's to stop the newly upgraded, genophage cured Krogans from going ape?

Implications....

Synthesis is not meant to prevent future conflicts between organics. It exists to solve the conflict between organics and synthetics. How it does that is open to interpretation.

And yet you forget the fact that the starchild gurentees that it will.http://www.youtube.c...ZuSHpWwo#t=287s

Where did you get that from? Nothing of the kind is even remotely suggested in the conversation. Everything the Catalyst says refers to the organic/synthetic conflict. The context is completely unambiguous.

First he tells us the cycle is the eventually of machines killing off organics...http://www.youtube.c...kZuSHpWwo#t=74s
Then he tells us that choosing destory with stop the cycle for a while but it will come back....http://www.youtube.c...ZuSHpWwo#t=194s

Then he tells us the synthesis ends the cycle...  http://www.youtube.c...ZuSHpWwo#t=287s 

Modifié par dreman9999, 22 mai 2012 - 08:40 .

[Sisterofshane]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
I still haven't figured out why it's necessary if we're simply going to be the same.

What's to stop the newly upgraded, genophage cured Krogans from going ape?

Implications....

Nothing of course....except that in my universe the genophage isn't cured.

Gods, I feel like a prayer wheel. Normal enmity was never the problem. The drastically different speed of advancement between organics and synthetics was the problem. There will still be wars. Maybe some species will go extinct from them. Just not intelligent life of basically organic nature. There still is life whose basic nature is organic, even if upgraded by synthetic aspects. Anything else would make no sense since the basic goal of the Catalyst - preserving organic life - would be defeated.

Lol, you guys are going to be going around until the end of time, but I have to agree with Ieldra that this is NOT a thread trying to convince you to make the Synthesis choice in your playthroughs - we've all acknowledged that Shepard is trying to make a decision that will affect the whole of the galaxy (not that Shepard never has before, right?).

What we would like to see is that, barring the morality of the decision (because in the end, this is and always has been left up to the player), how can we take Synthesis and help it to fit within the Narrative - because whether we like to admit it or not, Synthesis has become the red-headed stepchild of ME3, and mostly because of it's lack of explanation and context.

[Taboo]

Sisterofshane wrote...

What we would like to see is that, barring the morality of the decision (because in the end, this is and always has been left up to the player), how can we take Synthesis and help it to fit within the Narrative - because whether we like to admit it or not, Synthesis has become the red-headed stepchild of ME3, and mostly because of it's lack of explanation and context. 

I think the idea has been soured for quite a few people. The lack of information makes people suspicious. I'll still never choose it but I'd like to see what Bioware can do with it.

What would be really cool is to see what results they have from the feedback that is sent out from the feedback option online.

[Sisterofshane]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

What we would like to see is that, barring the morality of the decision (because in the end, this is and always has been left up to the player), how can we take Synthesis and help it to fit within the Narrative - because whether we like to admit it or not, Synthesis has become the red-headed stepchild of ME3, and mostly because of it's lack of explanation and context. 

I think the idea has been soured for quite a few people. The lack of information makes people suspicious. I'll still never choose it but I'd like to see what Bioware can do with it.

What would be really cool is to see what results they have from the feedback that is sent out from the feedback option online.

The same goes here, and I think that Ieldra is on to something with her explanations - I can "handwave" a little bit of strict science if the ending is explained well enough (like FTL and whatnot).

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Why is it always the "red-headed stepchild?"

[Taboo]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Why is it always the "red-headed stepchild?"

Gingers have no souls.

Or so the internet tells me.

[dreman9999]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

What we would like to see is that, barring the morality of the decision (because in the end, this is and always has been left up to the player), how can we take Synthesis and help it to fit within the Narrative - because whether we like to admit it or not, Synthesis has become the red-headed stepchild of ME3, and mostly because of it's lack of explanation and context. 

I think the idea has been soured for quite a few people. The lack of information makes people suspicious. I'll still never choose it but I'd like to see what Bioware can do with it.

What would be really cool is to see what results they have from the feedback that is sent out from the feedback option online.

The same goes here, and I think that Ieldra is on to something with her explanations - I can "handwave" a little bit of strict science if the ending is explained well enough (like FTL and whatnot).

But what of the possible cons of this. This is a raceof machines that can manipulate the limbic system....Why should anyone trust them in upgrading and changing anything in our bodies.

Modifié par dreman9999, 22 mai 2012 - 08:50 .

[Sisterofshane]

Taboo-XX wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Why is it always the "red-headed stepchild?"

Gingers have no souls.

Or so the internet tells me.

Strike One: Red Hair

Strike Two:  STEP child

^By their very nature they are just ASKING for a beating...

[Sisterofshane]

dreman9999 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

What we would like to see is that, barring the morality of the decision (because in the end, this is and always has been left up to the player), how can we take Synthesis and help it to fit within the Narrative - because whether we like to admit it or not, Synthesis has become the red-headed stepchild of ME3, and mostly because of it's lack of explanation and context. 

I think the idea has been soured for quite a few people. The lack of information makes people suspicious. I'll still never choose it but I'd like to see what Bioware can do with it.

What would be really cool is to see what results they have from the feedback that is sent out from the feedback option online.

The same goes here, and I think that Ieldra is on to something with her explanations - I can "handwave" a little bit of strict science if the ending is explained well enough (like FTL and whatnot).

But what of the possible cons of this. This is a raceof machines that can manipulate the limbic system....Why should anyone trust them in upgrading and changing anything in our bodies.

NO ending is without cons - and no one is saying that you need to make a choice that you don't morally agree with.

However, to answer your question, I don't believe that the Reapers are responsible for Synthesis - rather that the Crucible makes it possible, and it is a change propagated by commander Shepard himself, almost into his own image.  Sort of like Legion disseminating himself into the collective to give all of the Geth the upgrade.

[YNation913]

Didn't the infamous Mac Walters synthesis ending outline mention that the anatomical changes in the Reapers was a weakness for them somehow?

[Taboo]

YNation913 wrote...

Didn't the infamous Mac Walters synthesis ending outline mention that the anatomical changes in the Reapers was a weakness for them somehow?

At this point I have no idea what Walters was trying to do. I try not to pay attention to it.

I think the original plan was for us to become one with the Reapers.

[Ieldra]

@Sisterofshane:
Ah....always I must leave as things start to get interesting. I agree with you, Sisterofshane, the Crucible makes Synthesis possible and Shepard is the template for the face it will show. A little too magical for my taste, but the Crucible is sufficiently advanced technology after all, and I like the symbolism.

Hmm...here's a thought: beyond the basic notion of combining organics and synthetics in a way that solves the organic/synthetic problem, whatever Shepard is will shape what Synthesis will be. That's why it has to be Shepard who jumps into the beam. Anything else would be an irresponsible gamble. Well, if my main, Cyrus Shepard, jumps into the beam, the results will be close to what I described in the OP.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 mai 2012 - 09:11 .