9089 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...
Not entirely. Incest is a societal taboo in most cultures and prevents evolutionary issues because of it.

Indeed. Which proves my point, actually. 

If you notice, most sexual taboos no longer exist in Mass Effect. Culture is all the better for it.

This is a likely result of people having control over their reproduction.

But other things are still inherent, such as racism. No amount of Synthesized bodies will fix that unless we are all one species.

Yeah. Resentment based on appearance won't vanish as long as species can be used to establish any kind of group identity. But a less competitive environment - such as one where important resources are plentiful - would likely reduce its prevalence.

[Taboo]

Well, homosexuals can't reproduce Ieldra, to the best of my knowledge. My point is that once certain things in society collapsed, such as Abrahamic Religions, a great deal of prejudice went away. Religion still exists, but not in the same capacity.

All of the endings could be describe as leaning towards the possibility of bright new futures, depending on what you've done.

Destroy and Synthesis are both violent changes, whether you'll admit it or not. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Control is too much of a gamble for me.

The difference between you and I is that we disagree on how such issues should be resolved.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@AngryFrozenWater:
Of course I want to reduce the weight of your interpretation.

But I have also changed the section of the OP you quoted to reflect the uncertainty about the origin of the Synthesis option.

I like that version better, because of the vagueness of the whole idea. Thanks.

[Shaigunjoe]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...
Lets use a different device to make sure I understand what you are saying. Is it possible for a comm satellite to beam a signal without a power source?  The answer is no, it is impossible.  It sounds to me (it may not be the case, but this is what I am taking away from your post)  that, yes, it is possible for a satellite to transmit without a power source.

The three platforms are still required and are still part of the Citadel and the brat still claims the Crucible is merely a power source that needs the Citadel and the mass relays to become functional.

Your non-answer speaks volumes.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Taboo-XX, suppose if the choice was only control and synthesis, which one would you choose and why? Just for the sake of this argument suppose those are the only two options available and refuse is not an option.

[Taboo]

I don't know.

Control has some heavy repercussions if the AI based off of my Shepard's already fractured mind runs amok.

And Synthesis is just too much at once.

I think I'd try and debate the Star Child before doing anything.

Is shooting myself in the head an option?

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 25 juillet 2012 - 05:33 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Also, though I think I saw a thread somewhere that showed the decision chamber being part of the crucible, and not citadel. He checked the game models and assets to reach the conclusion. I'm currently trying to find that thread.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I don't know.

Control has some heavy repercussions if the AI based off of my Shepard's already fractured mind runs amok.

And Synthesis is just too much at once.

I think I'd try and debate the Star Child before doing anything.

Is shooting myself in the head an option?

Nope xD

[Taboo]

None of the choices are really Paragon or Renegade.

Rather than appealing to emotion, this choice applies to intellect and philosophy.

Which is why so many here are angry with the endings.

It just isn't black and white anymore.

I choose Destroy because I believe that all life is equal and should grow and prosper free of the Reapers.

Destroy is not ethical, but I believe it offers the best future for everyone.

[His Name was HYR!!]

I'm saying, if my #1 choice is out (synthesis ofc) then I pick Control.

I'd take Control to capitalize on the knowledge of the Reapers and endow that onto the galaxy. I'd safeguard against the dangers by making the galaxy able to defeat the Reapers conventionally with said advancement. Also, I will not plan to hold on to the Reapers indefinitely. Once I deem their purposes mostly unnecessary, I'll send them off into the sun, a star, or black hole.

Destroy is a solid solution, but it doesn't quite accomplish what I'd like, which is more than just resolving the conflict. So it's #3 for me.

Refuse is bad and should feel bad.

[Taboo]

Yes, both Ieldra and I believe that the full retard option IS Refuse.

Destroy accomplishes the mission without any long lasting interference, which is my goal.

But that doesn't mean my Shepard won't make attempts to make people study the Crucible even if we can't activate it again.

An interesting thought to say the least.

Also, I'd like to point out that anything written about your ending is not "fan fiction". It is your canon. The point is to allow you to do whatever you want.

If your Shepard's consciousness collects and combines into something whole again Ieldra, more power to you.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 25 juillet 2012 - 07:11 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Taboo-XX wrote...

None of the choices are really Paragon or Renegade.

Rather than appealing to emotion, this choice applies to intellect and philosophy.

It just isn't black and white anymore.

Is tthat a good thing or bad? probably depends on the player.. for me I relish the fact that none of the endings are ethically "clean", and forces me to think.

[Ieldra]

pirate1802 wrote...
Also, though I think I saw a thread somewhere that showed the decision chamber being part of the crucible, and not citadel. He checked the game models and assets to reach the conclusion. I'm currently trying to find that thread.

I initially thought that the elevator lifted Shepard up onto a Crucible platform, but now I'm not so sure. The structure encapsulating the Synthesis beam looks like the place the Crucible docked with. Anyway it doesn't matter all that much because the platforms are gameplay conveniences IMO, in order to make Shepard do something different for every option. Only it didn't work well. It still feels too much like "press the button" because the choice mechanics aren't integrated into gameplay like in DX1.

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...
None of the choices are really Paragon or Renegade.

Rather than appealing to emotion, this choice applies to intellect and philosophy.

Which is why so many here are angry with the endings.

It just isn't black and white anymore.

Ah, sweet irony. The ending doesn't appeal to emotion and.....people get angry. :lol:x1000
I agree though. The lack of a clear-cut villain we can kill appears to bother a great many people, while I appreciate it very much. That's also why I like the idea that the cycle was a cosmic accident.

I choose Destroy because I believe that all life is equal and should grow and prosper free of the Reapers.

Destroy is not ethical, but I believe it offers the best future for everyone.

I choose Synthesis for many reasons. The legacy of the past cycles is not lost, we're on a fast track to ascension, all life forms gain considerably in power and understanding and the gap between synthetics and organics is on the way to being closed.

As I said on page 67, it is "Revolution: Transcend the old order to bring about a new age where the old conflicts between organics and synthetics are meaningless. "

I also believe that it results in the best future for the civilizations of the galaxy and that using that one-time opportunity is morally problematic but justfied in the end, compared with the other options we got.

[Discouraged_one]

DAMN

[Ieldra]

Discouraged_one wrote...
DAMN

??
Did you want to say something?

[Ieldra]

Here's one more thing I'd like to talk about:

Has anyone noticed that Synthesis is the only ending where we don't see a single relay and don't see the Citadel? What do you think that means?

Personally, I like it because the scenario is open to the interpretation that people have found a new and exotic way to travel between the stars. On the other hand, galactic civilization is clearly intact and if you want, you can postulate that the relays are rebuilt.

[Aurora313]

Before the EC, all the way at the start of ME3's ending hate - like days after it was released.


I had a headcanon that the Mass Relays were the cause of the Dark energy build-up because they were created by the Catalyst. The Catalyst in turn was created in a desperate attempt to revive someone by a couple of misguided scientists from an already Synthesised race (the First Race - which I'll abbreviate to FR) similar to the Project Overlord - but said subject was physically mostly dead aside from residual brain activity.

The FR used something called 'The Nexus', which basically was a subspace 'web' tying the various systems of the Galaxy together. Though it was a great deal slower than the Mass Relays.

The original concept of the Catalyst was to act as a directing force to a new subservient race/peace keeping force, the first one composed of loyal volunteers and were only perhaps human-sized with limited freewill. The Modified Catalyst however went Rampant.

The Citadel was originally constructed to be it's prison, but it failed since the Catalyst infected all their technology like a virus and transformed the volunteers into the first husks. So in attempt to 'deconstruct' the Modifed Catalyst, the FR built the Crucible to attempt an 'anti-synthesis'. It doesn't work. Rather than killing the FR in response, the Catalyst decides to use them as fuel for a new design. The first construct becoming known as 'Harbinger'.

The Catalyst then devised and constructed the Mass Relays over the nexus points as a means of controlling the new populations that rise. Using them harvest civilisations after determining that 50k years is the maximum allowed time to let races develop and evolve before the Dark Energy levels become too high.

When the Relays were destroyed - the Citadel is left largely intact, however it exposes the Nexus and allows for the races to return home, and allows commerce and trade to be restored pretty damned quickly.


The story I started to write (pretty sure I deleted it though) took place about 5 years afterwards. I can't remember the exact details, but:

• Kaidan found Shepard's reconstructed body - raised by a huge mass of Transhumanist cults as a literal messiah.
• Members of the FR (the ones who created the Catalyst in the first place) were on Kleba using the Transhumanist cultists to obtain Shepard's body.
• They wanted to transfer the remains of the Catalyst into it.
• Kaidan really lost his sh!t and destroyed the entire facility holding with his biotics from pure rage (he was actually channelling Shepard's as well as his own, hence why he lost control) because he was unknowingly recruited into nearly destroying Shepard's consciousness.
• The Geth and Quarrians rebuilt Rannoch insanely quickly and found a strange new threat which sparked another galactic war - I think I had intended it to be a splinter group of the FR that escaped to a neighbouring galaxy when they were forced out for opposing the Original Reaper idea (to be fair: in hindsight they were right, but at the time, they were the minority threatening terrorist actions over it.)
• Uh - And Joker and EDI merged inextricably for some reason. I think one of them was dying, or it became necessary to navigate the Nexus. Crap, I don't remember it was months ago now...

I had so many ideas for Synthesis post-worlds. I  still do. And surprisingly, the EC actually kind of ruins a few of them for me. But I can alter them, just takes a while.

Sorry for this, seeing Ieldra2's comment about the Relays sort of jogged my memory about this idea I had a while back.

Modifié par Aurora313, 25 juillet 2012 - 03:01 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Whoa, I just got enlightened that the EC, rather than debunking the "brainwashed reaper-puppet, and no diversity hurr hurr" actually confirms it!

[Vigilant111]

Taboo-XX wrote...

None of the choices are really Paragon or Renegade.

Rather than appealing to emotion, this choice applies to intellect and philosophy.

Which is why so many here are angry with the endings.

It just isn't black and white anymore.

I choose Destroy because I believe that all life is equal and should grow and prosper free of the Reapers.

Destroy is not ethical, but I believe it offers the best future for everyone.

Remember Exogeni facility sidequest? In that mission, what action is regarded as paragon and what is regarded as renegade?

[Ieldra]

pirate1802 wrote...
Whoa, I just got enlightened that the EC, rather than debunking the "brainwashed reaper-puppet, and no diversity hurr hurr" actually confirms it!

You did? Who was the culprit? 

@Aurora:
Wow, you've got a lot of ideas. While I'm wracking my brain trying to come up with some good post-Synthesis plots. Not of that size though.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Personally, I like it because the scenario is open to the interpretation that people have found a new and exotic way to travel between the stars. On the other hand, galactic civilization is clearly intact and if you want, you can postulate that the relays are rebuilt.

Or, along the same lines, but more simply: synthesis is the ending of radical change. So, since the Citadel and the Relays are symbolic of the old structure, we don't see them.

I will say this: it's extremely strange that the science of the Mass Effect endings has nothing to do with Mass Effect. The writers seem to have lost track of that idea somewhere along the way.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Taboo my question is still unanswered. Out of control and synthesis which one would you choose if you absolutely had to choose one, and killing yourself is not an option

@Ieldra2: Someone over at Shepard is a hypocrite thread. It was my folly actually. Never engage the enemy when he has numerical or positional superiority. Shepard would be dissapoint with me I had to *run for the hills!*

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Personally, I like it because the scenario is open to the interpretation that people have found a new and exotic way to travel between the stars. On the other hand, galactic civilization is clearly intact and if you want, you can postulate that the relays are rebuilt.

Or, along the same lines, but more simply: synthesis is the ending of radical change. So, since the Citadel and the Relays are symbolic of the old structure, we don't see them.

Exactly.

I will say this: it's extremely strange that the science of the Mass Effect endings has nothing to do with Mass Effect. The writers seem to have lost track of that idea somewhere along the way.

Well, the Crucible is a dark energy device. As are mass effect cores and biotic implants. The Crucible's effects are distributes by the mass relays. Similarity enough. What's lacking is an in-depth explanation in faux science terms, but I don't think we could've expected that. People scarcely knew what the Crucible was capable of.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Well, the Crucible is a dark energy device. As are mass effect cores and biotic implants. The Crucible's effects are distributes by the mass relays. Similarity enough. What's lacking is an in-depth explanation in faux science terms, but I don't think we could've expected that. People scarcely knew what the Crucible was capable of.

Interesting, but I probably should have phrased that differently. As usual, I tend to look at things more from the point of view of the narrative than from fictional science or world-building. What I mean is: Mass Effect should probably have played a prominent role in how Mass Effect ended. It's nice that it's there in the background, but somewhere in the foreground is probably where it belonged. 

Remember how the series opened, with that text about how a new technology made faster than light travel possible, and the civilisations of the galaxy call it "Mass Effect"? There should have been an "Ah ha!" moment towards the end whereby Mass Effect is key to the culmination of the Mass Effect story.

Edit:
Just to clarify further, Mass Effect should have some role in the story that is not just incidental (such as "it's what gets you from point A to point B," which is what we have now). The absence of this type of thing is part of why the endings tend to provoke such a wtf? response.

Modifié par flemm, 25 juillet 2012 - 05:32 .