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[Ranger Jack Walker]

If Leviathan is the Leviathan of Dis and is also a rogue reaper then it's interesting because it indoctrinated the batarians to side with the reapers even though it's rogue.

What does that mean for Indoctrination. It seems like the Reapers can't turn it off and it will always make the indoctrinated serve the Catalyst.

[DirtyPhoenix]

It also is unnerving news for controllers? If one reaper can break off catalyst's control then that's... problematic O_O

[RohanSpartan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

RohanSpartan wrote...
In Stargate, The Ancients Ascended the right way.
Catalyst= Your doing it wrong.

Out of curiositiy: how did they do it? The Ancients I mean. I don't know much about the Stargate universe.

As for the Catalyst, yeah, that's why we stop the cycle.

I "borrowed" this from the Stargate Wiki.

Ascension is a process that allows beings to be able to separate
from their physical bodies and to live eternally as pure energy in a
superior plane with greater amount of knowledge and power. It can be a
mental, spiritual or evolutionary process—a direct result of obtaining a
certain level of wisdom and knowledge as a civilization.


The Ancients, who were also the predecessors to Humanity, were the first known race to learn how to ascend.

According to research by Dr. Rodney McKay, once the brain achieves 90% synaptic activity, they must achieve an EEG
of 0.1 to 0.9 hertz, during which they will learn how to convert their
body into energy. If they do not achieve ascension before 96% synaptic
activity is achieved, the lower functions of the brain will shut down.
Ascension can happen in two ways: spiritually or evolutionarily. Both
cases, the physical body of a mortal being will become energy (leaving a
heap of empty clothes), and a glowing light being will raise up through
the ceiling. From then on the ascended being tends to take the form of
the glowing light being.

[Ieldra]

Aurora313 wrote...
What's the bet that Leviathan is gonna shed more light/allude to the control/synthesis endings?

pirate1802 wrote...
At this point I don't even know what
the heck a Leviathan is, but I think I spotted Harbinger's voice at the
ending of that trailer. About shedding more light on control/synthesis,
I'm all for it as long as it doesn't create inconsistencies.

And they badly need abit of foreshadowing, its just sad it would be coming through an optionala DLC, if at all.

EDIT: And if it does have anything to do with control/synthesis, I can already see the ****storm brewing.

I can only see it throwing some shadow on Control. If the Leviathan is a rogue Reaper. As for Synthesis, I'd be delighted about some more foreshadowing, so that it doesn't come out of nowhere anymore. I don't know why that would cause a sh*tstorm. Nobody's choice would be invalidated by it. Of course those who think Synthesis shouldn't be in the game might be annoyed, but pissing *them* off is a favor of the universe. They've tried hard enough to ruin others' games for five months.

[Taboo]

I think this thing was the Catalysts first attempt at making a Reaper. He failed and it rebelled because he couldn't control it. Then he made Harbinger, the first "true" Reaper.

The point of this DLC is to paint the Reapers as more fallible Ieldra, which is a good thing.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Yes, it is a good thing but you know there are those people who view anything remotely hinting towards fallible/catalyst's pawn reapers as a grand betrayal to the lore. I think I already saw a thread on how this DLC will further dismantle the lore to prop up synthesis. And today talk was on in the control thread on how this DLC will show reapers can rebel, undermining control.. etc etc.

Ieldra2 wrote...
Of course those who think Synthesis shouldn't be in the game might be annoyed, but pissing *them* off is a favor of the universe. They've tried hard enough to ruin others' games for five months.

LOL yes I meant those kind of people.

[Taboo]

I uh, see the Catalyst being fallible as a GOOD thing. That means it truly is up to your Shepard to decide how he wishes to resolve the issue. Whatever Leviathan is, it should be a great example of how bad things COULD have been.

[Taboo]

Arcian wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I think this thing was the Catalysts first attempt at making a Reaper. He failed and it rebelled because he couldn't control it. Then he made Harbinger, the first "true" Reaper.

Hmm, I read that Leviathan was a Reaper created by the creators of the Catalyst after they realized the Catalyst had "gone rogue". It was created so that it could not be controlled by the Catalyst, and it was designed with the specific purpose of killing other Reapers. As a punishment, the Catalyst turned on his creators and turned them into the Reaper we all know and love as Harbinger.

Could be bollocks, though.

A lot of things are bollocks here. But I like your idea more. We'll just have to wait and see.

But why hasn't the Catalyst done something about the Leviathan? Should be fun.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Thats an interesting idea. But, if that is really how it turns out, then I can't see how this reaper-killer doesn't become a major factor in the endgame.

[Taboo]

pirate1802 wrote...

Thats an interesting idea. But, if that is really how it turns out, then I can't see how this reaper-killer doesn't become a major factor in the endgame.

It seems that the intention is to give us more information of the Reapers (LOL NO WAY TABOO) and to show that they are more fallible than we thought.

Of interest to me, is to see if this DLC somehow manages to make the Catalyst more...justfied. 

[Ieldra]

Arcian wrote...

RohanSpartan wrote...
I "borrowed" this from the Stargate Wiki.
Ascension is a process that allows beings to be able to separate from their physical bodies and to live eternally as pure energy in a superior plane with greater amount of knowledge and power. It can be a mental, spiritual or evolutionary process—a direct result of obtaining acertain level of wisdom and knowledge as a civilization.

I hate this term so unbelievably much.

Yeah, me too. I've seen passable rationalizations in SF, but as a rule "beings of energy" is crap. Also, I dislike the Gnosticism in it - the notion that corporeal existence is somehow inferior.

Well, at least in the ME universe there's no foundation for such a thing, excepting a few myths. and fortunately the Synthesis epilogue doesn't hint at it either.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 août 2012 - 06:25 .

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Arcian wrote...

RohanSpartan wrote...
I "borrowed" this from the Stargate Wiki.
Ascension is a process that allows beings to be able to separate from their physical bodies and to live eternally as pure energy in a superior plane with greater amount of knowledge and power. It can be a mental, spiritual or evolutionary process—a direct result of obtaining acertain level of wisdom and knowledge as a civilization.

I hate this term so unbelievably much.

Yeah, me too. I've seen passable rationalizations in SF, but as a rule "beings of energy" is crap. Also, I dislike the Gnosticism in it - the notion that corporeal existence is somehow inferior.

Well, at least in the ME universe there's no foundation for such a thing, excepting a few myths. and fortunately the Synthesis epilogue doesn't hint at it either.

The part where the catalyst said "you will add your energy to the crucible's" made me cringe. What energy? Energy is measured in joules, Walters. I seriously think he was refering to the outdated principles of vitalism, energy as a "vital spark" or  a "soul". Things like these don't belong in a sci-fi universe.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

The part where the catalyst said "you will add your energy to the crucible's" made me cringe. What energy? Energy is measured in joules, Walters. I seriously think he was refering to the outdated principles of vitalism, energy as a "vital spark" or  a "soul". Things like these don't belong in a sci-fi universe.

The whole Shepard-dying sequence in Synthesis made no sense...

[Taboo]

Vitalism is an OLD concept. REAL Old.

Like it can be traced back to ancient times and has variants all over the world. Chi is one of them, and that's found in Eastern concepts.

If this is true, Walters believes that Shepard can enact Synthesis because his "soul" has enough vital energy to cause a galaxy wide change.

I'm sorry Ieldra but if that was Walters intention it's ****ing hysterical. And I'm not trying to be demeaning either, that's just plain awful on his part.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 04 août 2012 - 07:01 .

[Ieldra]

Arcian wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...
The part where the catalyst said "you will add your energy to the crucible's" made me cringe. What energy? Energy is measured in joules, Walters. I seriously think he was refering to the outdated principles of vitalism, energy as a "vital spark" or  a "soul". Things like these don't belong in a sci-fi universe.

The whole Shepard-dying sequence in Synthesis made no sense...

Yeah, well, what can you expect from Mac, really?

Comic book logic and thematic considerations overriding in-world logic, apparently. Shepard's jump into the beam makes zero sense, the only part of Synthesis that beats all my efforts to imagine something reasonably logical into it. It's pure symbolism. That doesn't work in SF, Mr. Walters!

Not that Legion's death is any better. 

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Arcian wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...
The part where the catalyst said "you will add your energy to the crucible's" made me cringe. What energy? Energy is measured in joules, Walters. I seriously think he was refering to the outdated principles of vitalism, energy as a "vital spark" or  a "soul". Things like these don't belong in a sci-fi universe.

The whole Shepard-dying sequence in Synthesis made no sense...

Yeah, well, what can you expect from Mac, really?

Comic book logic and thematic considerations overriding in-world logic, apparently. Shepard's jump into the beam makes zero sense, the only part of Synthesis that beats all my efforts to imagine something reasonably logical into it. It's pure symbolism. That doesn't work in SF, Mr. Walters!

Not that Legion's death is any better. 

I fear Walters confused Sci-fi with fantasy. Symbolism works well in fantasy, it tends to kill absolutely every sci-fi story.
Yeah, it's a weak way to instill dramatic tension. Legion's death made absolutely no sense.

[Taboo]

One might take Legion's sacrifice as a moment of foreshadowing of your Shepard's possible sacrifice in Synthesis.

I like to think Thane's prayer for my Shepard asking for forgiveness foreshadows all the poor souls that are going to perish in Destroy. The sacrifice is of mind, not body.

But that's only because I've interpreted it that way.

[jtav]

I don't mind. The last two games have been like this, and the first wasn't great. Story like this, theme should trump worldbuilding if the reason is great enough.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I don't mind. The last two games have been like this, and the first wasn't great. Story like this, theme should trump worldbuilding if the reason is great enough.

I don't mind Shepard's sacrifice as such. But you can't just *ignore* in-world logic, you'll have to give the players an at least halfway believable rationalizations, something where we can say "OK, if I look deeper into it, it's probably nonsense, but it looks plausible at first glance and I'll suspend my disbelief for the rest."

One such way would have been to make Shepard a Synthesized person beforehand, then we could've said Shepard serves as a template. But Shepard is augmented, not Synthesized.

As a result, Shepard's death comes across as "a sacrifice because the writers decided that sacrifice is a major theme."

[Seival]

pirate1802 wrote...

It also is unnerving news for controllers? If one reaper can break off catalyst's control then that's... problematic O_O

How many squadmates left Shepard's team because they don't want to follow her orders? Zero. I don't think it will be any different in case of Catalist-Shepard

But this is not the main point. The main point is that Leviathan is just just something exceptional. Maybe it's some prototype, which has its own mind from the beginning? Or maybe it's the only survived victim of some Synthesis attempts the original Catalist told us about?

[Taboo]

Seival wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

It also is unnerving news for controllers? If one reaper can break off catalyst's control then that's... problematic O_O

How many squadmates left Shepard's team because they don't want to follow her orders? Zero. I don't think it will be any different in case of Catalist-Shepard

But this is not the main point. The main point is that Leviathan is just just something exceptional. Maybe it's some prototype, which has its own mind from the beginning? Or maybe it's the only survived victim of some Synthesis attempts the original Catalist told us about?

He's still attempting Synthesis with every husk he makes.

The only differance is that those forces are controlled.