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[saracen16]

The Angry One wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Ever since the EC the idea that the Reaper minions and Synthesized people are in some way similar is off the table. I have no idea why people bring that in through the backdoor. Except for the usual suspects of course.

Oh really? Explain why it is. The only difference between a husk and a victim of synthesis is autonomous control, and in the end it's just a different form of indoctrination.
I have no idea why people think otherwise. Except for the usual suspects, of course.

Riiiight. Everything you speak, TAO, is 100% truth and we're all blithering idiots for thinking otherwise. You've failed to argue that husks and synthites are the same to the core. A form of "indoctrination" based - according to another of your posts - on seriously superficial similarities between EDI's speech and the conversation with Sovereign. There is nothing "indoctrinating" about changing the fundamental matrix of life (DNA) into something hybridized with synthetics (i.e. nothing at all like the husks who, according to Mass Effect Retribution and other sources, are organic bodies infiltrated with synthetic tubing), and there is nothing to indicate that the cycle continued.

You're the one who needs to do the explaining, not Ieldra2. As far as we know, you made the outrageous statement and therefore the burden of proof is with you.

We're waiting.

[Seival]

I created the thread we discussed recently:
http://social.biowar.../index/13527595

Some haters were noticed there, but looks like discussion goes on and has some very positive replies

Modifié par Seival, 05 août 2012 - 10:15 .

[saracen16]

Seival wrote...

I created the thread we discussed recently:
http://social.biowar.../index/13527595

Some haters were noticed there, but looks like discussion goes on and has some very positive replies

Just chimed in right now.

[Seival]

Maybe we should ask BioWare to make all ending support threads sticky?

[Taboo]

Seival wrote...

Maybe we should ask BioWare to make all ending support threads sticky?

That would cause chaos. More so than I could ever do, not that it's my intention.

The animosity is already sky high for Synthesis, you don't want a sticky thread putting it up for all to see.

Things will go south REAL fast if that happened.

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Seival wrote...
Maybe we should ask BioWare to make all ending support threads sticky?

That would cause chaos. More so than I could ever do, not that it's my intention.

The animosity is already sky high for Synthesis, you don't want a sticky thread putting it up for all to see.

Things will go south REAL fast if that happened.

I wouldn't want one ending to be singled out, but generally I think it's a good idea. One of the worst aspects here on BSN is how hard it is to find relevant threads again once nobody's posted in them for half a day, and others looking for discussion on the subject then make new threads and the regulars point them to the existing ones. That's very inefficient.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 août 2012 - 11:04 .

[Ieldra]

BrookerT wrote...
Leviathan's shaping up to be one of ME's best DLCs, I really can't wait to talk to him. I honestly believe he will provide heavy exposition for all three choices, not just synthesis or control. And maybe allude to Organics Vs Synthetics a bit more

I don't think the outcomes of the choices need more explanation. It's all in the EC. I think Leviathan will give more background information about the Reapers and their origins, which may or may influence the choice we're making in the end.

I would wish for something that makes it possible to ground Shepards dispersal in Synthesis firmly in in-world logic, but I don't think it will happen, mostly because I suspect the writers themselves have no idea.

[BrookerT]

Ieldra2 wrote...

BrookerT wrote...
Leviathan's shaping up to be one of ME's best DLCs, I really can't wait to talk to him. I honestly believe he will provide heavy exposition for all three choices, not just synthesis or control. And maybe allude to Organics Vs Synthetics a bit more

I don't think the outcomes of the choices need more explanation. It's all in the EC. I think Leviathan will give more background information about the Reapers and their origins, which may or may influence the choice we're making in the end.

I would wish for something that makes it possible to ground Shepards dispersal in Synthesis firmly in in-world logic, but I don't think it will happen, mostly because I suspect the writers themselves have no idea.

I don't think that our choices will get more explanation, just much more context. Synthesis may be mentioned, control maybe. Just seems liely given the nature of Leviathan. 

Thats the only thing I don't like about how Synthensis was presented. All they needed to do was mention nanites, they exist in ME lore and make plenty of sense. It would have made more sense for Shepard to have activated Synthesis by pushing a button, or by altering the crucible via console. He would have died due to being at ground zero of the explosion and the crucible releases nanites or a signal which changes the nanites programming. Makes slightly more sense at least. That's how I view it.

[saracen16]

BrookerT wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

BrookerT wrote...
Leviathan's shaping up to be one of ME's best DLCs, I really can't wait to talk to him. I honestly believe he will provide heavy exposition for all three choices, not just synthesis or control. And maybe allude to Organics Vs Synthetics a bit more

I don't think the outcomes of the choices need more explanation. It's all in the EC. I think Leviathan will give more background information about the Reapers and their origins, which may or may influence the choice we're making in the end.

I would wish for something that makes it possible to ground Shepards dispersal in Synthesis firmly in in-world logic, but I don't think it will happen, mostly because I suspect the writers themselves have no idea.

I don't think that our choices will get more explanation, just much more context. Synthesis may be mentioned, control maybe. Just seems liely given the nature of Leviathan. 

Thats the only thing I don't like about how Synthensis was presented. All they needed to do was mention nanites, they exist in ME lore and make plenty of sense. It would have made more sense for Shepard to have activated Synthesis by pushing a button, or by altering the crucible via console. He would have died due to being at ground zero of the explosion and the crucible releases nanites or a signal which changes the nanites programming. Makes slightly more sense at least. That's how I view it.

The Crucible, the Mass Relays, the Citadel... all of it is advanced technology and no one knows how they work. As a result, no one has been able to reproduce the technology save for the Protheans, whose technology is also quite advanced, borrowed from earlier civilizations such as the Inusannon. The energy of the Crucible absorbs Shepard's organic and synthetic essences, and integrates them, sending them out and causing some sort of mass replication event that alters DNA at a biomolecular level, changing the fundamentals of creation but not the essence of who these individuals are. They are changed by the synthesis process, yes, but there is no indication as to how it is caused. Nanites can be an explanation, but we don't really know.

Speculation means that every answer within the lore is valid. And yours is actually quite valid, too. The energy of the Crucible could be seen as a metaphor, with nanites being spread to reconfigure life at the molecular level.

Modifié par saracen16, 06 août 2012 - 05:30 .

[BrookerT]

saracen16 wrote...

BrookerT wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

BrookerT wrote...
Leviathan's shaping up to be one of ME's best DLCs, I really can't wait to talk to him. I honestly believe he will provide heavy exposition for all three choices, not just synthesis or control. And maybe allude to Organics Vs Synthetics a bit more

I don't think the outcomes of the choices need more explanation. It's all in the EC. I think Leviathan will give more background information about the Reapers and their origins, which may or may influence the choice we're making in the end.

I would wish for something that makes it possible to ground Shepards dispersal in Synthesis firmly in in-world logic, but I don't think it will happen, mostly because I suspect the writers themselves have no idea.

I don't think that our choices will get more explanation, just much more context. Synthesis may be mentioned, control maybe. Just seems liely given the nature of Leviathan. 

Thats the only thing I don't like about how Synthensis was presented. All they needed to do was mention nanites, they exist in ME lore and make plenty of sense. It would have made more sense for Shepard to have activated Synthesis by pushing a button, or by altering the crucible via console. He would have died due to being at ground zero of the explosion and the crucible releases nanites or a signal which changes the nanites programming. Makes slightly more sense at least. That's how I view it.

The Crucible, the Mass Relays, the Citadel... all of it is advanced technology and no one knows how they work. As a result, no one has been able to reproduce the technology save for the Protheans, whose technology is also quite advanced, borrowed from earlier civilizations such as the Inusannon. The energy of the Crucible absorbs Shepard's organic and synthetic essences, and integrates them, sending them out and causing some sort of mass replication event that alters DNA at a biomolecular level, changing the fundamentals of creation but not the essence of who these individuals are. They are changed by the synthesis process, yes, but there is no indication as to how it is caused. Nanites can be an explanation, but we don't really know.

Speculation means that every answer within the lore is valid. And yours is actually quite valid, too.

I don't really mind. It just seems like one line of dialouge would stop all cries of space magic with ease. But it really doesn't matter:)

[Taboo]

Oh, looking at it again it's clear that they wanted a symbolic interpretation.

Which is an awful idea in Science Fiction if you present it incorrectly. They already had their heads on the chopping block with the choices being presented by a higher force, but the energy that comes from Shepard's "soul" is just too much.

I believe the human body has the power of two D Volt batteries. In this case, Synthesis is enacted by the same amount of energy required to run a small chainsaw.

That's hilarious.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 06 août 2012 - 05:34 .

[saracen16]

BrookerT wrote...

I don't really mind. It just seems like one line of dialouge would stop all cries of space magic with ease. But it really doesn't matter:)

I agree. As long as some things are left to speculation, "spess majik" will be the cry of the dissatisfied.

[Ieldra]

@saracen16:
I can live with not knowing how the Crucible or the Citadel works. But as opposed to the physics behind that technology, we know rather well how the human body works, and thus, Shepard's dispersal is something that must be explained. I am 100% unwilling to accept some non-physical nonsense like "Shepard's organic/synthesis essence". What the hell is that? Being organic or synthetic is an attribute of a whole organism, and it applies purely to its design principle. You can't just break that down to the molecular level.

Taking a mystical concept and surrounding it with technobabble doesn't create something that works in SF. The ground rules for such things need to be established in advance.

[MerchantGOL]

So i Just Watched Awakening of the Trailblazer last night.

Synthesis Works for me allot better now.

[saracen16]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@saracen16:
I can live with not knowing how the Crucible or the Citadel works. But as opposed to the physics behind that technology, we know rather well how the human body works, and thus, Shepard's dispersal is something that must be explained. I am 100% unwilling to accept some non-physical nonsense like "Shepard's organic/synthesis essence". What the hell is that? Being organic or synthetic is an attribute of a whole organism, and it applies purely to its design principle. You can't just break that down to the molecular level.

Taking a mystical concept and surrounding it with technobabble doesn't create something that works in SF. The ground rules for such things need to be established in advance.

You bring up a very good point, Ieldra2, one which I concede to.

Brooker's explanation of nanites is valid. Another possibility would be that E = mc-squared (that is, mass is a form of energy). The mass within Shepard's body is converted to pure, raw energy, and that is stored in the Crucible's initial burst. The alteration of the dark energy transmissions of the Crucible are sent out, and that energy reintegrates with organic or synthetic matter and converts it into mass (i.e. organics gain the synthetic technology within Shepard while synthetics gain the wave forms of Shepard's organic mind and its complexities.

That's just one possibility... Of course, explanations being what they are, they are only theories. The mass effect relays send out and amplify these transmissions and propagate them throughout the galaxy...

Modifié par saracen16, 06 août 2012 - 10:07 .

[Lord Goose]

Maybe someone already found it out, but where is a great deal of similirities between ME3 Synthesis ending and Transformers Beast Machines series ending.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=F1iTaPHjxuo

The similiarities are quite notable, in my opinion, and it clearly has the same vibe.
Also the whole story of Beast Machines was about the conflict between synthetic purist Megatron and his machines and Maximals, who were practically combination between organic and mechanic entities.

[MerchantGOL]

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing
http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

Modifié par MerchantGOL, 06 août 2012 - 11:02 .

[Taboo]

I suppose that's a rather inept comparison as the three are not the same.

And one is a children's program.

It's so much more complicated than that.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 06 août 2012 - 11:03 .

[MerchantGOL]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I suppose that's a rather inept comparison as the three are not the same.

And one is a children's program.

It's so much more complicated than that.

1 saying "its a cartoon" means  no more to me then saying "its a video game"

and 2 its the same bassic premise any thign else is just minor details

[MegaSovereign]

Ieldra2 wrote...

BrookerT wrote...
Leviathan's shaping up to be one of ME's best DLCs, I really can't wait to talk to him. I honestly believe he will provide heavy exposition for all three choices, not just synthesis or control. And maybe allude to Organics Vs Synthetics a bit more

I don't think the outcomes of the choices need more explanation. It's all in the EC. I think Leviathan will give more background information about the Reapers and their origins, which may or may influence the choice we're making in the end.

I would wish for something that makes it possible to ground Shepards dispersal in Synthesis firmly in in-world logic, but I don't think it will happen, mostly because I suspect the writers themselves have no idea.

There are plenty of ways to make it seem logical in Mass Effect setting.

Synthesis could work like the genophage virus in how it affects every living cell.

It's all just theories though and it's a shame Bioware will never add a codex entry on how Synthesis actually works. Synthesis is one of those things that desperately needs a canon explanation.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 06 août 2012 - 11:07 .

[Taboo]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I suppose that's a rather inept comparison as the three are not the same.

And one is a children's program.

It's so much more complicated than that.

1 saying "its a cartoon" means  no more to me then saying "its a video game"

and 2 its the same bassic premise any thign else is just minor details

One is watched by children on Saturday morning by children on the WB network. Are you seriously looking to justify your opinion of Synthesis from a ****ing cartoon?

Don't you think you should, I don't know, aim a little higher than that? The last thing you need associated with Synthesis is a children's cartoon.

You're already on the ropes with Bioware's impliance of Vitalism, which is older than snot and is laughed at in the scientific community.

For something that's supposed to be complicated Bioware is insisting that it be portrayed through God like entities and scientific theories that strech back to Plato.

I'd say it's closer to mysticism in some aspects rather than Science. And that doesn't work well in Science Fiction.

[The Angry One]

saracen16 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Ever since the EC the idea that the Reaper minions and Synthesized people are in some way similar is off the table. I have no idea why people bring that in through the backdoor. Except for the usual suspects of course.

Oh really? Explain why it is. The only difference between a husk and a victim of synthesis is autonomous control, and in the end it's just a different form of indoctrination.
I have no idea why people think otherwise. Except for the usual suspects, of course.

Riiiight. Everything you speak, TAO, is 100% truth and we're all blithering idiots for thinking otherwise. You've failed to argue that husks and synthites are the same to the core. A form of "indoctrination" based - according to another of your posts - on seriously superficial similarities between EDI's speech and the conversation with Sovereign. There is nothing "indoctrinating" about changing the fundamental matrix of life (DNA) into something hybridized with synthetics (i.e. nothing at all like the husks who, according to Mass Effect Retribution and other sources, are organic bodies infiltrated with synthetic tubing), and there is nothing to indicate that the cycle continued.

You're the one who needs to do the explaining, not Ieldra2. As far as we know, you made the outrageous statement and therefore the burden of proof is with you.

We're waiting.

Do you have anything except buzzwords? "Matrix of life" means nothing. Either come up with real answers or don't sit there and judge what others say.
Once again. The method is different, but the ultimate result is the same, and none of you have yet to prove otherwise.

And really people, taking stuff from other unrelated fictional universes and saying that makes synthesis okay?
Well, if you can do that, so can I.



Synthesis works!

[Taboo]

Uh, no I don't think it's like the Borg. I think it's a lot less...****ty?

It's a proper application of what the Catalyst has tried before. A mix between man and machine...eventually.

In time, the boundaries will no longer exist, but because they have made the improvements themselves.

If you force it, you get husks and the Leviathan.

What Synthesis is, is essentially a galactic fertilizer that allows a new type of life to grow.

At least that's how I see it.

[MerchantGOL]

Taboo-XX wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I suppose that's a rather inept comparison as the three are not the same.

And one is a children's program.

It's so much more complicated than that.

1 saying "its a cartoon" means  no more to me then saying "its a video game"

and 2 its the same bassic premise any thign else is just minor details

One is watched by children on Saturday morning by children on the WB network. Are you seriously looking to justify your opinion of Synthesis from a ****ing cartoon?

a cartoon that awlays delt with serious subject mater and themes, aimed at  oledrkids, and draped its self in the philospy of balance between machine and organic

Don't you think you should, I don't know, aim a little higher than that? The last thing you need associated with Synthesis is a children's cartoon.

If its a good example its a good example, besides mass effect is a video game, i can just as easlily go "well its a game so  it shoudlnt be taken seriously" both ar eignrant veiw points brought on by  no respect of the medium.



You're already on the ropes with Bioware's impliance of Vitalism, which is older than snot and is laughed at in the scientific community.

So are Explosions in space and the concept of alien life, so i fail to see your point, its Science Fiction for a reason

For something that's supposed to be complicated Bioware is insisting that it be portrayed through God like entities and scientific theories that strech back to Plato.

I'd say it's closer to mysticism in some aspects rather than Science. And that doesn't work well in Science Fiction.

The reapers has always been presented as such, i don't see a problem with them having a unique take on tried true  Sci fi tropes espacaily considering that was always the purpose of the serise

Modifié par MerchantGOL, 06 août 2012 - 11:22 .

[Ownedbacon]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Uh, no I don't think it's like the Borg. I think it's a lot less...****ty?

It's a proper application of what the Catalyst has tried before. A mix between man and machine...eventually.

In time, the boundaries will no longer exist, but because they have made the improvements themselves.

If you force it, you get husks and the Leviathan.

What Synthesis is, is essentially a galactic fertilizer that allows a new type of life to grow.

At least that's how I see it.

How is using the Crucible to accomplish this not forcing it? The Catalyst says it can't be forced but there you are forcing this change on the galaxy.