9089 réponses à ce sujet

[ATiBotka]

Hannah Montana wrote...

Synthesis is a terrible ending and you should all feel bad for choosing it.
You call yourselves organics, you're nothing more than misguided fools doing the work of the Reaper creating a galaxy where the enemy can live happy ever after with all your friends.

Indoctrination runs in your veins.

Ah yes, "Indoctrination". We have dismissed that claim.

[JeffZero]

I'm not meaning to imply that the Catalyst is anything less than a monstrous rogue AI, but it clearly thinks on a separate level than the Reapers, at least after the Crucible has docked. Before that, who knows.

[ghost9191]

@pirate1802

i just meant that no one ever really thought of it as a means to the end of the reaper threat. It was said that the protheans tried control and destroy but was never stated that synthesis was ever a option till the end.

from my pov and from what the catalyst said, synthesis is the reapers option, the end they have wanted. not saying it is bad just because of it , but simply put, to me control and destroy were the solutions of organics whereas synthesis was the reapers solution

or so it seemed, just putting what i gathered. I mean with the Zha'til , they merged to save themselves , which also turned out bad

overlord also turned out bad

[JeffZero]

ghost9191 wrote...

overlord also turned out bad

Well, mankind's reach pretty clearly exceeded his grasp when he used 2180's tech with geth shenanigans. There is a difference between that and the utilization of technology so vastly ancient and all-powerful as to be indistinguishable from [space] magic. 

[ghost9191]

was just saying to use those as examples for synthesis would be bad

and i always wondered how does synthesis actually affect the reapers, i mean they are already hybrids, organic/synthetic constructs, so why would synthesis make them glow green also, i just mean would it really change them at all if they are already hybrids, more to it i know but still

[JeffZero]

ghost9191 wrote...

was just saying to use those as examples for synthesis would be bad

and i always wondered how does synthesis actually affect the reapers, i mean they are already hybrids, organic/synthetic constructs, so why would synthesis make them glow green also, i just mean would it really change them at all if they are already hybrids, more to it i know but still

God only knows, I'll concede on that, lol.

But I just sort of view Control and even Synthesis as a complete rewrite of their... whatever-makes-them-tick, which is effectively erasing them en masse and replacing them with useful tools which maintain all their memories. Not that I don't believe such things can lead to problems further down the line, but yeah.

[Mobius-Silent]

Hannah Montana wrote...

You made the wrong choice, your shepard now belongs to the Reapers.

You lost the game.

Funny, this is the _exact_ opposite of everything Bioware has ever said about the ending. Now who do I think is more accurate... hmmmm....

[Eterna]

ghost9191 wrote...

was just saying to use those as examples for synthesis would be bad

and i always wondered how does synthesis actually affect the reapers, i mean they are already hybrids, organic/synthetic constructs, so why would synthesis make them glow green also, i just mean would it really change them at all if they are already hybrids, more to it i know but still

It probably just rewrites them to be passive while giving them understanding of Organics.

[JeffZero]

Yeah, I've never viewed not blowing the Reapers up as letting them get away with war crimes. If anything, rewriting them (a la rewriting the heretic geth in ME2) can be viewed as a more dubious action, but I doubt there are very many people here who would argue much against it. It's the concept of rewriting the rest of the galaxy that irks folks.

Modifié par JeffZero, 17 août 2012 - 10:02 .

[Hannah Montana]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Hannah Montana wrote...

You made the wrong choice, your shepard now belongs to the Reapers.

You lost the game.

Funny, this is the _exact_ opposite of everything Bioware has ever said about the ending. Now who do I think is more accurate... hmmmm....

The company that said there was 16 different endings.
The company that said the saving/destroying Rachni would have big consequences.

Maybe you were been sarcastic. 

Modifié par Hannah Montana, 17 août 2012 - 10:08 .

[ghost9191]

well understandable , and makes some sense. well guess that goes with my choice, rewriting would be the same as death in a way, no guarantee that they would stay that way or whatever, but better to end it

not that destroy was right, mordin said something like committing genocide to stop genocide only causes genocide, think it was mordin

anyways my point is that some ppl make the argument that killing the reapers is genocide so why not go with synthesis, but wouldn't rewriting them be genocide also, that is a different discussion though

[Ieldra]

pirate1802 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Every Reaper represents a civilization. I think they'll do different things. Some may fly off to do things incomprehensible to us, some may try to get reincarnated into their old forms, some may end their lives by flying into a star, some may try to end their lives flying into a black hole only to find that it sends them somewhere else, some may stick around for some time.

Do you think some reapers would like to fight among themselves? I certainly thing so. Harbinger would certainly have some enemies, and some explaining to do.

I somehow love the idea of a planet colonized by reapers. A civilization where each individual is a civilization itself. imagine.

Why would Reapers colonize a world? They're don't need planets.

[Pitznik]

Hannah Montana wrote...

The company that said there was 16 different endings.

IGN?

[Mobius-Silent]

ghost9191 wrote...

was just saying to use those as examples for synthesis would be bad

and i always wondered how does synthesis actually affect the reapers, i mean they are already hybrids, organic/synthetic constructs, so why would synthesis make them glow green also, i just mean would it really change them at all if they are already hybrids, more to it i know but still

The Reapers were pure synthetics that later gained huge DNA banks throughout their infrastructure, that are wired directly into their consciousness. They started as pure synthetics made by the Leviathans, the integration of organic goo is an addition the Catalyst made.

Synthesis does _not_ add organic components to synthetics, it simply re-bases their technology on a framework that is capable of processing emotional imperatives as an inherent part of cognition. All the Reapers get in synthesis is the capibility to feel emotions and a capability to directly communicate with post-organics (Now hybrids)

Every form of life is now based on "the framework", in post organics it seemlessly includes the existing DNA in synthetics their existing tech is simply upgraged (Possibly "wrapped" in the same way as our DNA was)

TL;DR humans gain the ability to function/upgrade like a synthetic, synthetics gain emotions and understanding of organics (sentience[thinking _and_ feeling] vs sapience[thinking only])

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 17 août 2012 - 10:13 .

[Hannah Montana]

Pitznik wrote...

Hannah Montana wrote...

The company that said there was 16 different endings.

IGN?

Who were paid by Bioware/EA to write reviews and info.
It all goes back.

[ATiBotka]

Hannah Montana wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Hannah Montana wrote...

You made the wrong choice, your shepard now belongs to the Reapers.

You lost the game.

Funny, this is the _exact_ opposite of everything Bioware has ever said about the ending. Now who do I think is more accurate... hmmmm....

The company that said there was 16 different endings.
The company that said the saving/destroying Rachni would have big consequences.

Maybe you were been sarcastic. 

After EC, we've got more than 16 ending.

[Pitznik]

Hannah Montana wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Hannah Montana wrote...

The company that said there was 16 different endings.

IGN?

Who were paid by Bioware/EA to write reviews and info.
It all goes back.

Unless you're wrong.

[Hannah Montana]

Pitznik wrote...

Hannah Montana wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Hannah Montana wrote...

The company that said there was 16 different endings.

IGN?

Who were paid by Bioware/EA to write reviews and info.
It all goes back.

Unless you're wrong.

I'm never wrong.
16 endings is not something one can simply see in Mass effect 3.
I bet my existence they were told there was 16 endings and that was that as there is no sane way to measure the endings.

Only Bioware could having giving out this false information.

Modifié par Hannah Montana, 17 août 2012 - 10:15 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

ghost9191 wrote...

@pirate1802

i just meant that no one ever really thought of it as a means to the end of the reaper threat. It was said that the protheans tried control and destroy but was never stated that synthesis was ever a option till the end.

from my pov and from what the catalyst said, synthesis is the reapers option, the end they have wanted. not saying it is bad just because of it , but simply put, to me control and destroy were the solutions of organics whereas synthesis was the reapers solution

or so it seemed, just putting what i gathered. I mean with the Zha'til , they merged to save themselves , which also turned out bad

overlord also turned out bad

Yeah they turned out to be bad, but so did the reaper's previous attempts at synthesis? I'd concede I don't know how or why synthesis succeeded this time around, maybe this cycle is special? We already saw this cycle defy the catalyst's "organics and synthetics will always fight" logic. I just gave those examples to show that the merger has been imagined and tried before, although not successfully.

I thought you were suggesting that tired old "synthesis option is placed there by reaperz to indoctrinate you" line. Sorry I misunderstood you. I think all the three choices had been added to the crucible at some time in the past, one of them which resembles his goal, which is why he likes it. Someone in the distant past may have thought it up. The crucible's origins as it is, is a mystery itself. Countless cycles worked on it, stretching a billion years back. I'm of the view that the crucible plans were first created by the creator cycle, which would explain the synthesis option. (Since they were plaugued by AI problems themselves).

and i always wondered how does synthesis actually affect the reapers, i
mean they are already hybrids, organic/synthetic constructs, so why
would synthesis make them glow green also, i just mean would it really
change them at all if they are already hybrids, more to it i know but
still

The green light, methinks, is just symbolic. Like how the reaper lights turn blue in control.

About them being hybrids, yes ther are; but of a different kind. I think the organic part of them consists of the genetic goo the harvest, and store. Their thinking process is synthetic, made of programs like in with EDI. After Synthesis, according to me, they experience two changes.

1) The catalyst's objective is completed, so the reapers are no longer required to harvest beings. They are freed of the catalyst's control.
2) Their syntheic minds experience a similar change like other synthetics, they gain an understanding of organics, they gain organic emotions and feelings.
These two factors change them so they are no longer hostile.

[ATiBotka]

Hannah Montana wrote...

I'm never wrong.

Miranda? Is that you?

[DirtyPhoenix]

Ieldra2 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Every Reaper represents a civilization. I think they'll do different things. Some may fly off to do things incomprehensible to us, some may try to get reincarnated into their old forms, some may end their lives by flying into a star, some may try to end their lives flying into a black hole only to find that it sends them somewhere else, some may stick around for some time.

Do you think some reapers would like to fight among themselves? I certainly thing so. Harbinger would certainly have some enemies, and some explaining to do.

I somehow love the idea of a planet colonized by reapers. A civilization where each individual is a civilization itself. imagine.

Why would Reapers colonize a world? They're don't need planets.

Maybe to bring back their parent races? they'd need a stable base. Or just to stay away from everyone. They can't just keep flying forever (or can they?)

Modifié par pirate1802, 17 août 2012 - 10:37 .

[Pitznik]

Hannah Montana wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Hannah Montana wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Hannah Montana wrote...

The company that said there was 16 different endings.

IGN?

Who were paid by Bioware/EA to write reviews and info.
It all goes back.

Unless you're wrong.

I'm never wrong.
16 endings is not something one can simply see in Mass effect 3.
I bet my existence they were told there was 16 endings and that was that as there is no sane way to measure the endings.

Only Bioware could having giving out this false information.

Still it could be result of brain fart of some IGN reviewer, and not Bioware's fault.

[ATiBotka]

pirate1802 wrote...

1) The catalyst's objective is completed, so the reapers are no longer required to harvest beings. They are freed of the catalyst's control.

I think the Catalyst died after the Citadel exploded. I am not sure about this, but maybe.

[ghost9191]

@Pirate1802

true enough

[DirtyPhoenix]

ghost9191 wrote...

well understandable , and makes some sense. well guess that goes with my choice, rewriting would be the same as death in a way, no guarantee that they would stay that way or whatever, but better to end it

not that destroy was right, mordin said something like committing genocide to stop genocide only causes genocide, think it was mordin

anyways my point is that some ppl make the argument that killing the reapers is genocide so why not go with synthesis, but wouldn't rewriting them be genocide also, that is a different discussion though

I was a destroyer pre-EC. Back then, control and synthesis really looked like traps. Now, with the epilogues we see that is not the case. The thing that hurts me most about destroy is not the death of the reapers, but the death of my friend (EDI) and allies (Geth). I cannot let them die while there are other options, I'd do that if destroy was the only available option.

My first EC playthrough was a destroy one. And then I saw EDI's smiling face in the flashbacks and it really hit me hard. And I remembered that Legion's "do we deserve death?" line. That was the last time I picked destroy.

But that is not to say destroy is wrong. Like I've said before, there is no right and wrong choice. There is only you and what you see to be the best future of the galaxy. I don't think synthesis is the only right choice, neither is destroy an abomination for the reaons you mentioned. Every ending has similar downsides.

Modifié par pirate1802, 17 août 2012 - 10:45 .