9087 réponses à ce sujet

[Lugaidster]

Synthesis is a solution to a non-existing problem. You are trying to impose a fundamental change on every organic life on the basis of an unproven (for that universe) issue. No matter how beautiful it might sound, it's still irrelevant. Forcing fundamental change (it is fundamental) on every life of the galaxy is ethically and morally wrong.

It's ok that you find it acceptable or even good to take that option. But I find it repulsive as it is essentially admitting that organics have no chance of survival by their own means. If singularity is a certainty, synthesis just takes us there immediately as organics stop existing, accepting that fate. I refuse to accept the certainty of singularity.

[Heeden]

Lugaidster wrote...

Synthesis is a solution to a non-existing problem. You are trying to impose a fundamental change on every organic life on the basis of an unproven (for that universe) issue. No matter how beautiful it might sound, it's still irrelevant. Forcing fundamental change (it is fundamental) on every life of the galaxy is ethically and morally wrong.

It's ok that you find it acceptable or even good to take that option. But I find it repulsive as it is essentially admitting that organics have no chance of survival by their own means. If singularity is a certainty, synthesis just takes us there immediately as organics stop existing, accepting that fate. I refuse to accept the certainty of singularity.

Organics don't stop existing,

[Taboo]

Heeden wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Synthesis is a solution to a non-existing problem. You are trying to impose a fundamental change on every organic life on the basis of an unproven (for that universe) issue. No matter how beautiful it might sound, it's still irrelevant. Forcing fundamental change (it is fundamental) on every life of the galaxy is ethically and morally wrong.

It's ok that you find it acceptable or even good to take that option. But I find it repulsive as it is essentially admitting that organics have no chance of survival by their own means. If singularity is a certainty, synthesis just takes us there immediately as organics stop existing, accepting that fate. I refuse to accept the certainty of singularity.

Organics don't stop existing,

Prove it with cited facts.

All we can do is speculate. That's what this thread is.

[Uncle Jo]

Heeden wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Synthesis is a solution to a non-existing problem. You are trying to impose a fundamental change on every organic life on the basis of an unproven (for that universe) issue. No matter how beautiful it might sound, it's still irrelevant. Forcing fundamental change (it is fundamental) on every life of the galaxy is ethically and morally wrong.

It's ok that you find it acceptable or even good to take that option. But I find it repulsive as it is essentially admitting that organics have no chance of survival by their own means. If singularity is a certainty, synthesis just takes us there immediately as organics stop existing, accepting that fate. I refuse to accept the certainty of singularity.

Organics don't stop existing,

As such, sure they do. As other "form of life" they don't.

[Taboo]

You guys DO realize that this is all speculation right?

That it's someone's ideas (not that they are invalid)?

You realize that Bioware hasn't said anything regarding how much Synthesis affects things?

[Uncle Jo]

Taboo-XX wrote...

You guys DO realize that this is all speculation right?

That it's someone's ideas (not that they are invalid)?

You realize that Bioware hasn't said anything regarding how much Synthesis affects things?

I'll refer to the original source i.e. the game:

Star Brat:"The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework... A new DNA"a

Edit: I hope the OP is not going to give his metaphorical interpretation of the new DNA. He said we do have to trust the brat ('cause he's older than us, and know much more about the life and existential questions than us...) .

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 23 mai 2012 - 02:10 .

[Sisterofshane]

Taboo-XX wrote...

You guys DO realize that this is all speculation right?

That it's someone's ideas (not that they are invalid)?

You realize that Bioware hasn't said anything regarding how much Synthesis affects things?

Yeah, I'm just hoping that they can expand/clarify ALL of the endings even half as cleverly and well as some of the users here have...

[Taboo]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You guys DO realize that this is all speculation right?

That it's someone's ideas (not that they are invalid)?

You realize that Bioware hasn't said anything regarding how much Synthesis affects things?

I'll refer to the original source i.e. the game:

Star Brat:"The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework... A new DNA"

That pause apparently means something. Seeing as the Synthesis people take everything else he says at face value I see it as odd that they disregard it.

[Jonata]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You guys DO realize that this is all speculation right?

That it's someone's ideas (not that they are invalid)?

You realize that Bioware hasn't said anything regarding how much Synthesis affects things?

I'll refer to the original source i.e. the game:

Star Brat:"The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework... A new DNA"

That pause apparently means something. Seeing as the Synthesis people take everything else he says at face value I see it as odd that they disregard it.

I think that pause simply means that the word DNA is not totally appropriate but the Catalyst uses it to make Shepard comprehend what Synthesis actually do.

[Uncle Jo]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You guys DO realize that this is all speculation right?

That it's someone's ideas (not that they are invalid)?

You realize that Bioware hasn't said anything regarding how much Synthesis affects things?

I'll refer to the original source i.e. the game:

Star Brat:"The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework... A new DNA"

That pause apparently means something. Seeing as the Synthesis people take everything else he says at face value I see it as odd that they disregard it.

That pause... Maybe because he was about to laugh his *ss off ? Or he was waiting for Shep's reaction, thinking : Don't tell me you really bought it ?

No, he wanted to emphasize the word DNA, or trying to put his nonsense in simple words that Shep could comprehend (don't forget, Shep had hard times recently, was wounded and a little bit tired)...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 23 mai 2012 - 02:21 .

[Lugaidster]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You guys DO realize that this is all speculation right?

That it's someone's ideas (not that they are invalid)?

You realize that Bioware hasn't said anything regarding how much Synthesis affects things?

I'll refer to the original source i.e. the game:

Star Brat:"The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework... A new DNA"

You are taking it literal. In that context, it is an analogy, at least that's what I get from the pause. Besides, how is a hybrid between organics and machines on the fundamental level still organic? How can it be possible for a fundamental change to the very definition of organic life make it so that it is still organic life?

[Uncle Jo]

Lugaidster wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You guys DO realize that this is all speculation right?

That it's someone's ideas (not that they are invalid)?

You realize that Bioware hasn't said anything regarding how much Synthesis affects things?

I'll refer to the original source i.e. the game:

Star Brat:"The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework... A new DNA"

You are taking it literal. In that context, it is an analogy, at least that's what I get from the pause. Besides, how is a hybrid between organics and machines on the fundamental level still organic? How can it be possible for a fundamental change to the very definition of organic life make it so that it is still organic life?

Hold your horses. Before going on the rampage, you should read my previous posts...

[Taboo]

We also have to assume that Bioware put effort into it. Why put emphasis on the line if they had no plan of doing anything else? Not even Robert Bresson was this vague and he relied on shots of HANDS to relay information. At least I knew what the hell was going on.

It boggles my mind. BASIC narrative structure should be there....

[Heeden]

You are taking it literal. In that context, it is an analogy, at least that's what I get from the pause. Besides, how is a hybrid between organics and machines on the fundamental level still organic? How can it be possible for a fundamental change to the very definition of organic life make it so that it is still organic life?

I don't think the Catalyst is referring to individuals becoming hybrids - "life will be combined in to a new frame-work" - the way we fit together and interact will change but the fundamental units will not.

[Taboo]

Heeden wrote...

You are taking it literal. In that context, it is an analogy, at least that's what I get from the pause. Besides, how is a hybrid between organics and machines on the fundamental level still organic? How can it be possible for a fundamental change to the very definition of organic life make it so that it is still organic life?

I don't think the Catalyst is referring to individuals becoming hybrids - "life will be combined in to a new frame-work" - the way we fit together and interact will change but the fundamental units will not.

So you admit that it's a forced change?

[Uncle Jo]

Taboo-XX wrote...

We also have to assume that Bioware put effort into it. Why put emphasis on the line if they had no plan of doing anything else? Not even Robert Bresson was this vague and he relied on shots of HANDS to relay information. At least I knew what the hell was going on.

It boggles my mind. BASIC narrative structure should be there....

So you have to ask yourself, why the brat made a pause when Shep told him "But I can [control the Reapers]", before answering "yes". I think the space troll is really a comic one...

If you really want to ask yourself the good questions about the narrative structures and all, you should IMO go a little back in the time, i.e all what happened after Harbinger's blast...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 23 mai 2012 - 02:37 .

[Heeden]

Taboo-XX wrote...

So you admit that it's a forced change?

I never denied it - what I actually said was;

"You can argue that Shepard doesn't have the right to make this decision
for the galaxy but it is an equally strong argument that Shepard doesn't
have the right not to make it.
Besides, the whole galaxy has united behind him to fight the Reapers,
they all followed him to this point and gave him this responsibility
(even if they didn't know what was going to happen). If anyone has any
complaints after the decision is made then maybe they should have solved
the Reaper problem themselves. My problem with it, is it seems too much
like a form of up-lift and I am personally against it. It caused me to
umm and ah for a long time because it is clearly the best thing for the
galaxy but I believe we can make it there on our own."

Oh, and my evidence for organics surviving synthesis is Joker etc. leaving the Normandy and the Stargazer.

[Taboo]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

We also have to assume that Bioware put effort into it. Why put emphasis on the line if they had no plan of doing anything else? Not even Robert Bresson was this vague and he relied on shots of HANDS to relay information. At least I knew what the hell was going on.

It boggles my mind. BASIC narrative structure should be there....

So you have to asky yourself, why the brat made a pause when Shep told him "But I can [control the Reapers]", before answering "yes". I think the space troll is really a comic one...

If you really want to ask yourself the good questions about the narrative structures and all, you should IMO go a little back in the time, i.e all what happened after Harbinger's blast...

It's possible. But I could also be wrong.

A dramatic pause should be distinct though, which is why we have our little issue here.

[Uncle Jo]

Heeden wrote...


I don't think the Catalyst is referring to individuals becoming hybrids - "life will be combined in to a new frame-work" - the way we fit together and interact will change but the fundamental units will not.

Still don't see the contradiction ?

[Heeden]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Heeden wrote...


I don't think the Catalyst is referring to individuals becoming hybrids - "life will be combined in to a new frame-work" - the way we fit together and interact will change but the fundamental units will not.

Still don't see the contradiction ?

No.

[Uncle Jo]

Heeden wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Heeden wrote...


I don't think the Catalyst is referring to individuals becoming hybrids - "life will be combined in to a new frame-work" - the way we fit together and interact will change but the fundamental units will not.

Still don't see the contradiction ?

No.

Think a little more then...

[Taboo]

A new framework of DNA.

JESUS.

[Uncle Jo]

Taboo-XX wrote...


It's possible. But I could also be wrong.

A dramatic pause should be distinct though, which is why we have our little issue here.

If it was the only issue we had with the ending taken at face value, I'll be more than happy to oversee it.

[PsyrenY]

dreman9999 wrote...
My point is the star child found faster way then havesting with the crucible.

Logic dictates that the products of two completely different processes are themselves completely different. And the fact that neither Joker nor EDI resemble Reapers in the slightest disproves your theory.

[Heeden]

Taboo-XX wrote...

A new framework of DNA.

JESUS.

That's not what is said, there is no mention of adjusting genetic material.