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A different ascension - the Synthesis compendium (now with EC material integrated)


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#4501
Taboo

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JedTed wrote...

I'm sorry but i don't believe in the "10-15 years to rebuild" in every ending. When Shepard talked to Vega about rebuilding i thought, this is gonna take a couple decades if not a century at least. How would you restore an entire planet like Earth to it's former glory in only 15 years(unless you have help from the Reapers)?

Just because one of the devs mentions it on a panel doesn't always make it canon. Personally i think Destroy creates the real dark age(even with High EMS), maybe the Relays can be repaired quickly(we built the Crucible so Relays should child's play) but it would take a lot longer to repair all of the damage done by the Reapers.

Anderson said in the beginning of ME2 that they still hadn't fully repaired the damage to Citadel after the geth attack. It would be 10 years before the Citadel was totally restored.


Except that the slides directly, DIRECTLY contradict that.

You have cities sprouting up and people returning home. Jacob is teaching in a well off area, Coates is helping rebuild a city. The Quarians are putting things on Rannoch. The Krogan return to prosper on Tuchanka.

The slides suggest this. Unless these chracters are living to be hundreds of years old you have no proof.

As the Catalyst states, anything that is damaged can easily be repaired.

And with Shepard there they have a symbol for the new age. A beacon to surround.

Everything is repaired, even the Citadel.

#4502
RiouHotaru

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I think the "dark age" is the period of time directly AFTER the reaper's defeat and when rebuilding begins in earnest. So technically the "Dark Age" hasn't been retconned. I mean there's obviously going to be a brief period of time were things are in limbo.

It's true that it's glossed over in the endings, but it's still there.

#4503
Taboo

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^ That's a fairer assessment I think.

The damage that has been done is catastrophic, no one is denying that and there are going to be people who are going to die by either starvation or other things. But it won't be a Fallout like scenario either.

The one thing that has always amazed me about society is how fast we can rebuild. Once we start, things get better.

One of my favorite films, one title Germany Year Zero (I think the German title is Deutschland Im Jahre Null) is a great time capsule. It was made right after World War II.

This screenshot is NOT faked. This was made in the ruins of Berlin.

Posted Image

The film is famed because it captures a moment in history that few things have ever done. Berlin began rebuilding and the horrors that the film capture are not as visible anymore.

And it didn't take a thousand years to rebuild either.

They are not the same (OBVIOUSLY TABOO) but it goes to show that even in devastation, the drive to survive will take you to extraordinary places.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 23 août 2012 - 07:02 .


#4504
Ieldra

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webhead921 wrote...
I guess I like synthesis for a lot of the reasons you stated. It is a dawn of a new era, but at the same time we are still human. I think a lot of what makes us who we are is our mortality. I don't have a problem with ascension, and lifespans being significantly expanded, but losing our mortality means that we lose something that defines us. It's a minor nitpick, and it's the only thing that bothers me about the synthesis ending. I choose to believe that the "immortality" that EDI speaks of is less literal. Maybe being able to save our memories onto some sort of electronic storage for others to access in the future (i.e. the echo shard or Keiji's grey box).

Don't get me wrong, I really like the end result of synthesis for the most part. This is just the only thing that I would change.

I interpret the immortality as "people won't die from old age if they don't want to". Nothing more, nothing less. They can still be killed and can also kill themselves. And I like the idea exactly because by overcoming one significant limitation of our organic hardware, it will redefine us in some way. Also, it's still only a prospect for the future. I see it as representative of overcoming those limitations.

webhead921 wrote...
I also really like synthesis because it is a major shift in the status quo. I sort of expected the trilogy to end with a fundamental shift in the ME universe. That's one of the reasons why I'm more hesitant to choose destroy post-EC. The fact that the ME universe just goes back to the status quo (minus synthetic life) in about 10-15 years sort of feels underwhelming. I like fundamental change that is brought about in synthesis, and the fact that the galaxy can advance in a new and exciting direction.

Indeed. Back on page 67, I described Synthesis as "Revolution. Transcend the old order to bring about a new age where the conflicts which defined the past are meaningless". Not that there won't be conflicts and challenges any more, but they will be new ones.

#4505
Ieldra

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JedTed wrote...
I'm sorry but i don't believe in the "10-15 years to rebuild" in every ending. When Shepard talked to Vega about rebuilding i thought, this is gonna take a couple decades if not a century at least. How would you restore an entire planet like Earth to it's former glory in only 15 years(unless you have help from the Reapers)?

Just because one of the devs mentions it on a panel doesn't always make it canon. Personally i think Destroy creates the real dark age(even with High EMS), maybe the Relays can be repaired quickly(we built the Crucible so Relays should child's play) but it would take a lot longer to repair all of the damage done by the Reapers.

Anderson said in the beginning of ME2 that they still hadn't fully repaired the damage to Citadel after the geth attack. It would be 10 years before the Citadel was totally restored.

They said the epilogues spanned different timeframes, with the first images being set 10-15 years after the war and the last up to 200 years. But I agree it's not canon. Most of the time, Bioware's writers have no sense of scale and haven't since ME1. The only thing we can say for sure is that there'll be a functioning infrastructure on most of the worlds within the lifetime of the characters shown. Worlds mostly rebuilt could take anything between 10 and 50 years.  

Also, major aspects are still very open to interpretation even with the EC. Both Destroy and Synthesis are open to the interpretation that the relays won't be rebuilt since we never see them rebuilt. We only see the Citadel used as a space elevator in Destroy. It may be that just as I sugggested in my old thread Out of the dark age: ... , post-Destroy civilization will rely on non-relay FTL for an extended period of time and post-Synthesis civilization will find a new and exotic way to travel between the stars. Control is the only ending where the relays are canonically rebuilt at all.
If they're rebuilt, it will take a few centuries after Destroy and 10-15 years after Control and Synthesis.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 août 2012 - 07:16 .


#4506
Taboo

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Ieldra, you DO know how far away Tuchanka and Rannoch are right? The Relays have to be rebuilt. FTL wouldn't get you there for a long, long time.

Many of those characters would be dead before getting home. They retconned the **** out of everything.

#4507
JedTed

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Taboo-XX wrote...

Except that the slides directly, DIRECTLY contradict that.

You have cities sprouting up and people returning home. Jacob is teaching in a well off area, Coates is helping rebuild a city. The Quarians are putting things on Rannoch. The Krogan return to prosper on Tuchanka.

The slides suggest this. Unless these chracters are living to be hundreds of years old you have no proof.

As the Catalyst states, anything that is damaged can easily be repaired.

And with Shepard there they have a symbol for the new age. A beacon to surround.

Everything is repaired, even the Citadel.


I'm not suggesting that all of those slides happen 100 years later, i just think that 10-15 years is a little un-realistic for total restoration.  Look Earth and the start of the game, then look at it during the final mission.

Maybe "dark age" is a little harsh since we still have all our technology(mass effect drives, comm buoys, etc.) but the cities will still take a while to rebuild.

#4508
Ieldra

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Taboo-XX wrote...
Ieldra, you DO know how far away Tuchanka and Rannoch are right? The Relays have to be rebuilt. FTL wouldn't get you there for a long, long time.

Yep, about 18 years to Rannoch, 11 years to Thessia and about 5 years to Tuchanka or Sur'kesh, at 12 ly/day. Hardly forever, even if you don't take tech advances into account. Rememeber that the average human life expectancy at birth is about 150, and will probably become significantly more in fairly short order after Synthesis.

Many of those characters would be dead before getting home. They retconned the **** out of everything.

What they retconned is the suggestion of a dark age lasting several millenia and the reset to a galactic stone age. That still leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 août 2012 - 07:29 .


#4509
3DandBeyond

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Ieldra2 wrote...
--snipped--
Indeed. Back on page 67, I described Synthesis as "Revolution. Transcend the old order to bring about a new age where the conflicts which defined the past are meaningless". Not that there won't be conflicts and challenges any more, but they will be new ones.


Ok, just so I understand.  New conflicts are better than old ones?  I'm just saying that conflict is conflict and it's actually neutral.  It's what you do with it that is not neutral.  Conflict spurs growth and achievement when used for some type of constructive thing along the way.  Chaos and conflict both need people to learn to overcome.  Synthesis offered by reaper kid solves one imaginary conflict as he sees it, but of course does not address any others that crop up.  So, what exactly does it achieve? 

It could actually make people less capable of dealing with future conflict since as the kid sees it people will through tech eventually reach the pinnacle of evolution beyond which evolution could no longer occur.  That means that at some point the goal is sameness of genetic makeup (perfection as the kid sees it), which means the end to life.  LIfe is only supported through genetic diversity and it doesn't have to be vastly different genetic coding, but just different.  If all synthetic life is meant to achieve perfection, there is nothing beyond that and all things must achieve similarity to be perfect or it's less than perfect.

So, lack of diversity could mean the inability to deal with future conflict.  All eyes would eventually see things from the same perspective as genetic coding converges.  A tech singularity is part of it but not the only thing-knowledge would converge, but so would genetics.

And I fail to see how giving synthetics full understanding of organics could stop the attack of the killer robots.  The kid says if synthetic beings get smart enough they will surpass their creators and turn into crazed killer robots.  Because as we know any super smart artificially created lifeform will obsess over their creators and want to kill them.  Everything does revolve around us always.  So, if they are then made even smarter with full understanding of organics, all of a sudden they become peace loving and are no longer crazy must kill robots.  The reapers too will suddenly understand organics and want to friend them on Facebook.  I understand poison ivy, but I still want to kill it.  So, by the kid's logic why wouldn't these new synthetics that can now understand organics still want to kill them?  And why do they have green "eyes" if all they got was understanding of organics?

#4510
3DandBeyond

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JedTed wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Except that the slides directly, DIRECTLY contradict that.

You have cities sprouting up and people returning home. Jacob is teaching in a well off area, Coates is helping rebuild a city. The Quarians are putting things on Rannoch. The Krogan return to prosper on Tuchanka.

The slides suggest this. Unless these chracters are living to be hundreds of years old you have no proof.

As the Catalyst states, anything that is damaged can easily be repaired.

And with Shepard there they have a symbol for the new age. A beacon to surround.

Everything is repaired, even the Citadel.


I'm not suggesting that all of those slides happen 100 years later, i just think that 10-15 years is a little un-realistic for total restoration.  Look Earth and the start of the game, then look at it during the final mission.

Maybe "dark age" is a little harsh since we still have all our technology(mass effect drives, comm buoys, etc.) but the cities will still take a while to rebuild.



In fact, some of the slides were said by BW at SDCC to take place 300 years in the future.

#4511
Taboo

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Ieldra, you DO know how far away Tuchanka and Rannoch are right? The Relays have to be rebuilt. FTL wouldn't get you there for a long, long time.

Yep, about 18 years to Rannoch, 11 years to Thessia and about 5 years to Tuchanka or Sur'kesh, at 12 ly/day. Hardly forever, even if you don't take tech advances into account. Rememeber that the average human life expectancy at birth is about 150, and will probably become significantly more in fairly short order after Synthesis.

Many of those characters would be dead before getting home. They retconned the **** out of everything.

What they retconned is the suggestion of a dark age lasting several millenia and the reset to a galactic stone age. That still leaves a lot of room for interpretation.


Ieldra, some planets are on the other side of the galaxy. Twelve light years won't get you anywhere fast if your home planet is that far away. The galaxy is  over 100,000 LY across.

Even if your home was 50,000 light years away it would still take over four thousand yeats to get there.

It isn't viable.

They retconned things. Hackett states the relays are being rebuilt.

Most of those trips are not viable. Can you imagine a ship full of Krogans on a ship for five years?

#4512
Ieldra

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Do your math, Taboo:

Travelling for 20 years at 12 ly/day will let you go 365*12*20 = 87600 ly - almost to the other side of the galaxy. And that's using average ships and not taking any tech advances into account. You'll need liveship-analogues to come along for reprovisioning, and maybe add a year or two in total for things like drive discharge, but the travel time stays well within even a salarian's lifetime.

Edit:
Another piece of math: 12ly/day is not 12 times light-speed but 4380 times light-speed
.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 août 2012 - 08:11 .


#4513
Taboo

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Do your math, Taboo:

Travelling for 20 years at 12 ly/day will let you go 365*12*20 = 87600 ly - almost to the other side of the galaxy. And that's using average ships and not taking any tech advances into account.


Per day is the issue. I thought you meant per year. That was my bad.

It still isn't viable in some instances though. You can't put a group of Krogan on a ship for five years like that. What about resources? What of X, Y and Z?

I seem to recall things needing to be dumped every few days. Drive cores?

And what about fuel? The Normandy struggeld with that. The Reapers have destroyed most of the fuel tanks.

How are you going to do this?

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 23 août 2012 - 08:11 .


#4514
Ieldra

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Taboo, would you please read my thread Out of the dark age:...! I've explained it all in great detail there. Short version: about half of all stars have planets and most planets are gas giants. You can get fuel from gas giants as well as discharge your drives there. With an average star density of 0.004 stars per cly, there will be plenty of opportunities for both within a two-day trip from any location. Also, fuel will only be needed to accelerate and decelerate and not while cruising.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 août 2012 - 08:16 .


#4515
Ieldra

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@3DAndBeyond:
(1) I meant that the new era will doubtless give rise to new challenges, even as old conflicts are overcome. That some of those old conflicts are overcome is valuable nonetheless.

(2) I don't take the "final evolution" literally. As you say, there is no such thing. Also, there is no absolute measure of perfection. As I said, for organics the changes that come with Synthesis represent a step in overcoming significant limitations of organic hardware. It's not necessarily the end, as the epilogue specifically implies when talking about what the future might hold.
What the "final evolution" *may* mean is that civilization now has the means to control its own evolution instead of depending on random chance to do the work. In other words, the end of *natural* evolution and its replacement by deliberate design, if civilizations so desire.

(3) Since the EC, removing diversity isn't even suggested any more.

(4) The scenario of synthetics wiping out organics is not based on "synthetics suddenly want to kill organics", but on disregard. If organics can't keep up with synthetics, synthetics will eventually surpass them and treat them like we treat the countless species we have casually exterminated on Earth, just by expanding into their space with no malice whatsoever. The combination of upgrading organics to be able to keep up with synthetics and synthetics gaining better understanding will make this scenario far less likely. At least that's the rationalization I use.

#4516
Taboo

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Well it doesn't happen for ten thousand years Ieldra.

Also, anyone with knowledge if wildlife knows that invading space does not wipe out everything. That is utterly absurd.

You co-exist for the most part. You cannot assume that Synthetics will be harmful. It is possible, but it's very difficult to wipe everything out unless you intentionally look for it.

I think the chances are that an organic will likely attack such intelligence and be wiped out then. But we don't know to what degree they will continue from. If I step on an ant because it gets too close I don't actively seek out the next ant hill to prevent them from ruining my potato chips.

The Stargazer scene takes place ten thousand years in the future. That's a huge grace period. My Shepard's children certainly didn't create the Synthetics that the Catalyst so fears will start new chaos.

It is possible Ieldra. Possible.

#4517
inversevideo

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
--snipped--
Indeed. Back on page 67, I described Synthesis as "Revolution. Transcend the old order to bring about a new age where the conflicts which defined the past are meaningless". Not that there won't be conflicts and challenges any more, but they will be new ones.


Ok, just so I understand.  New conflicts are better than old ones?  I'm just saying that conflict is conflict and it's actually neutral.  It's what you do with it that is not neutral.  Conflict spurs growth and achievement when used for some type of constructive thing along the way.  Chaos and conflict both need people to learn to overcome.  Synthesis offered by reaper kid solves one imaginary conflict as he sees it, but of course does not address any others that crop up.  So, what exactly does it achieve? 

It could actually make people less capable of dealing with future conflict since as the kid sees it people will through tech eventually reach the pinnacle of evolution beyond which evolution could no longer occur.  That means that at some point the goal is sameness of genetic makeup (perfection as the kid sees it), which means the end to life.  LIfe is only supported through genetic diversity and it doesn't have to be vastly different genetic coding, but just different.  If all synthetic life is meant to achieve perfection, there is nothing beyond that and all things must achieve similarity to be perfect or it's less than perfect.

So, lack of diversity could mean the inability to deal with future conflict.  All eyes would eventually see things from the same perspective as genetic coding converges.  A tech singularity is part of it but not the only thing-knowledge would converge, but so would genetics.

And I fail to see how giving synthetics full understanding of organics could stop the attack of the killer robots.  The kid says if synthetic beings get smart enough they will surpass their creators and turn into crazed killer robots.  Because as we know any super smart artificially created lifeform will obsess over their creators and want to kill them.  Everything does revolve around us always.  So, if they are then made even smarter with full understanding of organics, all of a sudden they become peace loving and are no longer crazy must kill robots.  The reapers too will suddenly understand organics and want to friend them on Facebook.  I understand poison ivy, but I still want to kill it.  So, by the kid's logic why wouldn't these new synthetics that can now understand organics still want to kill them?  And why do they have green "eyes" if all they got was understanding of organics?


The odd thing is that the writers were making diversity a focus all througout the series.
Provincialism led to mis-understanding and conflict. The universe was a divided place, where the Krogan were set loose upon the Rachni, and the Salarians and Turians were set loose on the Krogan.

Yet, when the races worked together, they could accomplish much. The citadel and council brought order to what could have been mass chaos. Even Terrans and Turians collaborated, and created the Normandy.

We had that great speach, by Wrex, in ME2, about how each clan had a role/place. How that diversity made them strong.

We saw how the diverse races came together to construct the crucible, how each race brought some unique perspective.

We heard from Javik, the last Prothean, how a lack of diversity, among the Protheans, ended up being a weakness which the Reapers exploited.

I just do not see how the game could logically end up with Shepard unilaterally deciding to take away all diversity from the galaxy and impose uniformity.  To me this is the view and logic of a Reaper.

At the last second Shepard decides that 'resistance is futile'?

Posted Image

Modifié par inversevideo, 23 août 2012 - 09:03 .


#4518
webhead921

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Why do people keep insisting that there is no diversity? Clearly the EC shows that turians are still turians, asari are still asari, etc. All species gain new abilities, but they have not been homogenized. There isn't really anything in game to support this conclusion. If both me and my cat get a fake leg, we have not suddenly become the same species.  Perhaps synthesis will make it easier for races to work together.  I think this is somewhat implied, given the fact that the races of the galaxy are now able to work together with the reapers.  

Modifié par webhead921, 23 août 2012 - 09:53 .


#4519
3DandBeyond

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Ieldra2 wrote...

@3DAndBeyond:
(1) I meant that the new era will doubtless give rise to new challenges, even as old conflicts are overcome. That some of those old conflicts are overcome is valuable nonetheless.

(2) I don't take the "final evolution" literally. As you say, there is no such thing. Also, there is no absolute measure of perfection. As I said, for organics the changes that come with Synthesis represent a step in overcoming significant limitations of organic hardware. It's not necessarily the end, as the epilogue specifically implies when talking about what the future might hold.
What the "final evolution" *may* mean is that civilization now has the means to control its own evolution instead of depending on random chance to do the work. In other words, the end of *natural* evolution and its replacement by deliberate design, if civilizations so desire.

(3) Since the EC, removing diversity isn't even suggested any more.

(4) The scenario of synthetics wiping out organics is not based on "synthetics suddenly want to kill organics", but on disregard. If organics can't keep up with synthetics, synthetics will eventually surpass them and treat them like we treat the countless species we have casually exterminated on Earth, just by expanding into their space with no malice whatsoever. The combination of upgrading organics to be able to keep up with synthetics and synthetics gaining better understanding will make this scenario far less likely. At least that's the rationalization I use.


But your "natural" evolution is kicked off with and augmented forever by reaper tech fully integrated with organics.

The removal of diversity I was addressing is that as people become necessarily genetically similar.  The tech within them will guide them willingly or unwillingly toward a lack of diversity.  That tech will itself create the similarity since it would rule out illogical change.  As mutations are no longer needed to survive and overcome certain adversity, they then will begin to happen less frequently.  And as learning is headed toward the tech singularity, genetics will follow suit.  Eventually, seeing things myopically will lead to learning that is narrow of focus and will then lead to all knowledge being applied from a certain direction.  If it is a pinnacle of evolution, eventually, then evolution stops eventually which means mutation does and change does also.  And along with it diversity stops. 

However, if you think that means that evolution will then be controlled, that will still lead to the same thing.  You are substituting artificially applied ideas of the direction evolution should take as opposed to the direction evolution does take in response to a need.  It would be used in response to a want.  I don't see it that way at all and nothing the kid says leads me to believe that.  He applies it as a reaction to people using augmentation to achieve perfection-that tech drives ideas and function as opposed to purpose and need driving tech, even if it's perceived need. 

You see I don't see synthetics necessarily wanted to destroy organics unless it's seen from some arrogant view of them.  I don't see them wanting to do it out of disregard-they could easily ignore people.  The geth are a prime example of that-they merely evolved and were perceived as a potential threat and started being killed.

My personal view is of synthetics that sometimes want to be like people, depending on their identification with them, and others that ignore people, some that wish to be friendly and some that want to kill-all of the iterations of actually being a person.  I don't see understanding as being the delineator at all.  In fact, one of the basic tenets of the warrior is to know your enemy.  Understanding could lead some to determine organic life or non-synthetic life is illogical and like a virus.  Or it could lead to friendship, disdain, or what have you.  Synthesis solves nothing.  It leavers the reapers alive and may even leave the kid "alive".

I'd even go so far as to say their is a lot of warpage about how he views synthesis, and what he must think of himself.  Perfection through tech-well he is tech.  He is preserving organics-sure, in much the same way you might pin a butterfly to a board and frame it.  So, his best solution merely is to get rid of organics and integrate them all with tech, his tech, his warped little glow boy tech.  Biut if organics are gone, then why do synthetics need to understand them?  And if synthetics understand organics, what's to stop them or anyone else from making organic and synthetic life again?  And, then what happens if indeed the kid still exists?  Perhaps more importantly he knew his programming was flawed and wanted the help of a lot of brains.  But how would using Shepard's energy and reaper tech automatically give all synthetics full understanding of organics?  The kid himself doesn't seem to understand everything and Shepard is one person.

#4520
3DandBeyond

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webhead921 wrote...

Why do people keep insisting that there is no diversity? Clearly the EC shows that turians are still turians, asari are still asari, etc. All species gain new abilities, but they have not been homogenized. There isn't really anything in game to support this conclusion. If both me and my cat get a fake leg, we have not suddenly become the same species.  Perhaps synthesis will make it easier for races to work together.  I think this is somewhat implied, given the fact that the races of the galaxy are now able to work together with the reapers.  


For me it's the idea that at the pinnacle or end of evolution, change will cease to take place.  Diversity only happens due to evolution and change related to adversity and the need to overcome some obstacle.  Culture is created and grows due to this as well.  You are not adding a fake leg.  Synthesis described by the kid is fully integrating tech with organics.  It's either done at a molecular or deeper level.  It is a bit ambiguous because all synthetics also have visual changes similar to organics, but synthetics are only said to gain full understanding of organics (how I don't know since Shepard is one person and the kid doesn't fully understand organics-it's magic, I guess).

Organics are fundamentally changed.  But consider that even if they still retain some differences, they are very similar genetically, just as we humans are very similar to chimps genetcially.  I won't quote the exact similarity because it's different based on who you read on it.  All organics within ME are probably already very similar genetically and most of the races are seen as truly lacking in diversity within their own races-humans are considered the most diverse and we are actually not that diverse at all.  So, if tech is inserted and fused or integrated, then diversity is likely to begin to be discarded.  As adveristy is more easily overcome and similar thinking begins to take over, people will cease to be genetically diverse.

Take a look again at the cheetah.  We humans start to hem animals in to one type of environment with one type of food that can be gotton only one way and the cheetah or any other animal will lose the things that force diversity to happen.  The same might also take place with all races in the galaxy.  It would take awhile, but integrated tech would give it a jump.

#4521
inversevideo

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webhead921 wrote...

Why do people keep insisting that there is no diversity? Clearly the EC shows that turians are still turians, asari are still asari, etc. All species gain new abilities, but they have not been homogenized. There isn't really anything in game to support this conclusion. If both me and my cat get a fake leg, we have not suddenly become the same species.  Perhaps synthesis will make it easier for races to work together.  I think this is somewhat implied, given the fact that the races of the galaxy are now able to work together with the reapers.  


Because we would all share the same DNA, the diversity of life would be forever gone.

Also, we did not earn this 'elightenment', it was thrust upon us.

Posted Image

"All scientific advancement due to intelligence overcoming, compensating for limitations. Can't carry a load, so invent wheel. Can't catch food, so invent spear. Limitations! No limitations, no advancement. No advancement, culture stagnates! Works other way too. Advancement before culture is ready, disastrous.Like giving nucear weapons to cavemen Saw it with Krogan. Uplifted by Salarians. Disastrous. Our Fault."

#4522
JamieCOTC

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Catalyst: "Synthesis is the final stage of evolution."
Shepard: You failed biology 101 didn't you.
Catalyst: *hangs head*

#4523
Enthalpy

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 If you've read the tie-in comic series of the same title, you'd know that Mass Effect has always had a horrible track record with the concept of evolution. So I take the Catalyst with a grain of salt.

(For the record, there is speculation that human evolution has already begun to grind to a halt -- and plenty of criticism of said speculation. Bottom line is that evolution isn't going to stop as long as mutations keep happening. There is nothing to indicate that synthesis tech prevents this.)

Edit: links failed on me, sigh.

Modifié par Enthalpy, 24 août 2012 - 02:38 .


#4524
3DandBeyond

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Enthalpy wrote...

 If you've read the tie-in comic series of the same title, you'd know that Mass Effect has always had a horrible track record with the concept of evolution. So I take the Catalyst with a grain of salt.

(For the record, there is speculation that human evolution has already begun to grind to a halt -- and plenty of criticism of said speculation. Bottom line is that evolution isn't going to stop as long as mutations keep happening. There is nothing to indicate that synthesis tech prevents this.)

Edit: links failed on me, sigh.


Well considering that evolution is a response to a need and mutations are spontaneous leaps in evolution, it can be postulated that as needs are lessened, evolution slows.  With evolution being directed through reaper tech to the kid's idea of perfection or merely the pinnacle of evolution, it means that at least certain obstacles will have been removed.  One benefit would be in knowledge and then others would be physical enhancements.  This would create a slowdown of evolution.  As it slows, the ability to adapt would lessen and would then further slow evolution. 

Consider that some of the things that drive evolution would have been removed to a certain extent-certain adversity would have automatically been removed.  Why else would there even be any reason for synthesis?  What would it do if not impart unearned knowledge and if it would not augment physical capabilities?  Even if it just gave people a huge leap in knowledge, it could do irreparable harm.  Part of learning is learning how to learn-it's exploration and adversity.  It's being able to see things from a different POV from someone else and to discuss and learn from what others think.  That helps you learn how to adapt to new situations and to weigh your options.  If you are given knowledge, you lose a crucial part of what attaining knowledge gives you-not only does learning something change your brain, and change many things-your personality, it also aids in your ability to deal with setbacks and learn from errors.  It causes evolution.

Given knowledge or artificial augmentation would cause genetic erosion eventually.  If you start a population along a path of similar interests (one part tech could direct interests along converging paths), eventually they will start to become similar.

It's like forcing tigers to only live in one small area of the world.  They will then begin to eat the same food always.  Eventually they will no longer physically evolve.

In synthesis, people are integrated with reaper tech which would be the known tech.  It would take longer than tigers, but it would have begun the process of sameness.

#4525
JedTed

JedTed
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I just want to add that the tech used in Synthesis is not Reaper tech, it comes from the Crucible. Which was build by organics. At least that's my theory, feel free to as many holes in it as you like. :)

As for the evolution debate. Has anybody actually given thought to where the galaxy MIGHT be in a thousand years post-Synthesis? As our knowledge of the galaxy grows we could eventually shed our physical bodies(Beings of Light from Klencoy anyone?).