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[Ieldra]

So...does anyone who chose Synthesis think Leviathan affects Synthesis somehow? Some people say that Leviathan "pushes" Synthesis, but I think they're just seeing what they fear to see. The post-ME3 galaxy will have its problems with the Leviathans, that's for sure, and I don't think Leviathans upgraded by Synthesis are a particularly desirable aspect of the post-Synthesis scenario. If anything, the vision of an utopian future has been thoroughly demolished now that what may be the next big threat has raised its ugly head. At least the galaxy will be well-prepared for it now that the veil of secrecy is gone.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Would Synthesis supporters be willing to support The Fish Theory?

[DirtyPhoenix]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Would Synthesis supporters be willing to support The Fish Theory?

That name made me smile

[Juggle]

Finally getting to this thread to read everything about synthesis. And still keep reading Kudos to you, OP, for what you collect and organize so much information here.

Synthesis has always appealed to me more than any other endings, even before game came out, when the truth was discovered in the Spoilers Group. And even despite my very negative attitude to the last hour of the game. Synthesis represents some interesting ideas and offers some interesting possibilities (although I find it nearly as interesting as slow and natural way of evolution, presented in Destroy, because it will lead civilization to quite different results).

My biggest gripe with Synthesis is protagonist sacrifice (leave aside Space Magick). It's completely illogical, unnecessary and full of forced drama and sickening religious symbolism. Pheeew... I chose Synthesis twice, before and after EC. Since then, don't touch the game. I must kill my favorite protagonist several times, eh... I don't have guts for that, I must admit.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Would Synthesis supporters be willing to support The Fish Theory?

I don't deny that BW has an obvious preference for synthesis. I just fail to see how Leviathan promotes it, or invalidates the other choices (apart from maybe control).

[Ieldra]

JDeelane wrote...
Finally getting to this thread to read everything about synthesis. And still keep reading Kudos to you, OP, for what you collect and organize so much information here.

Synthesis has always appealed to me more than any other endings, even before game came out, when the truth was discovered in the Spoilers Group. And even despite my very negative attitude to the last hour of the game. Synthesis represents some interesting ideas and offers some interesting possibilities (although I find it nearly as interesting as slow and natural way of evolution, presented in Destroy, because it will lead civilization to quite different results).

My biggest gripe with Synthesis is protagonist sacrifice (leave aside Space Magick). It's completely illogical, unnecessary and full of forced drama and sickening religious symbolism. Pheeew... I chose Synthesis twice, before and after EC. Since then, don't touch the game. I must kill my favorite protagonist several times, eh... I don't have guts for that, I must admit.

Yeah. Shepard's sacrifice in Synthesis is driven by symbolism with no root in in-world logic, which I greatly resent. I don't have a big problem with Shepard sacrificing himself. I wouldn't even mind if there were religious symbolism on top of a reasonable in-world justification, but plainly the way it's done here it is not SF. That's why I have zero hesitation to headcanon that he comes back after Synthesis to see the future he has wrought. And to come back to Miranda of course.

Apart from that, I choose Synthesis because it is plainly the most interesting choice, the most exotic one where nothing will be the same as before. I have Shepards who choose the other endings, but Synthesis is the one I choose with the ones I identify with most.

[Taboo]

Oh no it's Vitalism. Shepard's energy is sent out. You're dealing with "spirit energy".

The definition:

Vitalism is the doctrine, often advocated in the past but now rejected by mainstream science,that "living organisms are fundamentally different from non-living entities because they contain some non-physical element or are governed by different principles than are inanimate things".

Where vitalism explicitly invokes a vital principle, that element is often referred to as the "vital spark", "energy" or "élan vital", which some equate with the "soul".

^ LMFAO.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

^ This is one of the main problems I have with Synthesis. "add your energy to the crucible", "the essence of who you are". What the hell, Walters... lol someone really doesn't know what energy is.

[Ieldra]

@Taboo:
As I said, it is most emphatically not science fiction. I like Synthesis, but I herewith give the one who came up with the in-world "justification" for Shepard's sacrifice a virtual kick in his actual ass. Probably Walters. The man has written too many comics.

[Enthalpy]

Do you guys think that what the Leviathans did to the lone Reaper was some kind of indoctrination, or some kind of technological disruption (seeing as the Leviathans must have a good grasp of what constitutes a Reaper)? I always thought that synthetics, Reapers included, were immune to indoctrination.

[YNation913]

The pulse that hit the Reaper looked like the pulse that messed up Shepard's shuttle. I'm pretty sure Cortez said it was directed energy, which at that moment was directed at the Reaper.

As far as the nuances of how Shepard's body is used in synthesis, the extended cut's description threw me off, but I remember thinking in the original ending that the dialogue implied that Shepard's unique physiology after project Lazarus would serve as a blueprint for the galaxy's transformation, which jives a bit better with me.

[TMA LIVE]

Do you consider Synthesis as making the galaxy immune to indoctrination? Including the kind the Leviathan's use? I mean, once that beam hit those Husks, they weren't under control. Or was that simply because the controller (aka Citadel and Catalyst) are gone?

[Astralify]

Soo... this thread is the home of all indoctrinated people. Seen some of your sigs, I don't think you people know what ascension means. Not to mention that merging DNA with Binary code is the single dumbest thing ever. And even if it was "somehow" possible, the whole concept is actually a limitation of the true potential of organics. Maybe that's the reapers's idea. To limit the organic evolution so they can have control and nothing is above them. Because organics minds exist beyond this dimension. Machines/AI's does NOT. God this franchise had so much potential. But that's what happen when you have amateur comic-writer for lead writer.

[Ieldra]

Astralify wrote...
Because organics minds exist beyond this dimension. Machines/AI's does NOT.

:lol::lol:
People complain about Synthesis making no sense and then THIS??????

[Ieldra]

YNation913 wrote...
As far as the nuances of how Shepard's body is used in synthesis, the extended cut's description threw me off, but I remember thinking in the original ending that the dialogue implied that Shepard's unique physiology after project Lazarus would serve as a blueprint for the galaxy's transformation, which jives a bit better with me.

Yes, that's probably the intention. The problem is that Shepard is an augmented organic, not really biosynthetic in the way synthesis would require as a blueprint. EDI explicitly says that in the conversation about transhumanism.

I can take the intention and go with it, but if you think it through it's still not SF. It makes no sense even within the pseudo-scientific paradigm presented by the story.

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Astralify wrote...
Because organics minds exist beyond this dimension. Machines/AI's does NOT.

:lol::lol:
People complain about Synthesis making no sense and then THIS??????

Whoa now. You have "soul energy" activating yours.

But yeah that's a pretty bad.

[JesseLee202]

EDIT: I made a mistake.

Modifié par JesseLee202, 30 août 2012 - 10:48 .

[Ieldra]

TMA LIVE wrote...
Do you consider Synthesis as making the galaxy immune to indoctrination? Including the kind the Leviathan's use? I mean, once that beam hit those Husks, they weren't under control. Or was that simply because the controller (aka Citadel and Catalyst) are gone?

Indoctrination is a technology. If Synthesis makes you immune to it is anyone's guess. I don't necessarily think so. But I think that whatever mental link the Synthesis enables, it will be under individual people's control. It cannot be otherwise because any other scenario would drive people insane.

@Taboo:
I didn't say the vitalism implied in Shepard's sacrifice in Synthesis made any sense. But people who argue with extradimensional components of organic minds have no business complaining about it. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 août 2012 - 08:01 .

[Taboo]

Hold on now. I'm not Indoctrinated. I'm the guy Ieldra wishes was a troll.

I'm my own man thank you.

[JesseLee202]

EDIT: I made a mistake. 

Modifié par JesseLee202, 30 août 2012 - 10:47 .

[Astralify]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Astralify wrote...
Because organics minds exist beyond this dimension. Machines/AI's does NOT.

:lol::lol:
People complain about Synthesis making no sense and then THIS??????

That's because synthesis makes no sense. And I don't think Bioware should be playing with concepts they (and some of their customers don't understand). And about what I said, I think you should read more about how the human brain and our DNA works.

[Ieldra]

And it appears as if you should read some more real science, Astralify, instead of using sources based on religious ideology.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Astralify wrote...

Soo... this thread is the home of all indoctrinated people. Seen some of your sigs, I don't think you people know what ascension means. Not to mention that merging DNA with Binary code is the single dumbest thing ever. And even if it was "somehow" possible, the whole concept is actually a limitation of the true potential of organics. Maybe that's the reapers's idea. To limit the organic evolution so they can have control and nothing is above them. Because organics minds exist beyond this dimension. Machines/AI's does NOT. God this franchise had so much potential. But that's what happen when you have amateur comic-writer for lead writer.

For a moment I was confused why Ieldra was talking like that..

[Chashan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

And it appears as if you should read some more real science, Astralify, instead of using sources based on religious ideology.

How our brains work is still far away from being completely understood in a scientific sense far as I remember. Then again, been a few years since I graduated from German "Gymnasium" and left natural sciences behind, was not too big on those...


As for your initial question on this page: I hardly see Synthesis's summary as the "utopic" choice "demolished" at the end of the day following Levi', far from it. After all, it can hardly be ruled out that the Leviathans would not be affected like anyone else, and maybe in a similar way to their Reap-hurr creations.

Concerning which I, thinking about it, am not much under the impression that they are truly "free". Rather that their cycle-program is overridden by..."charity-program", for lack of a better term. And free access to the information and data of harvested cycles.

The preservation of which I do not see as a major point in favor of Synthesis for myself as I stated elsewhere.

EDIT: PS: Not to mention the point I saw brought up elsewhere that when it would come to direct blows between the Leviathans and the rest of the galaxy, they'll be smoked in any of the three endings. Something that largely holds true far as I am concerned.

Modifié par Chashan, 31 août 2012 - 06:27 .

[Ieldra]

The leviathans would be affected by Synthesis like any other organic species, meaning their attitude will not be directly affected. Also I don't think they'll be happy with the Reapers not being destroyed. I don't see them as the big epic threat of the post-Reapers era, since I see the post-Synthesis civilization as the most powerful (if not the most unified, that would be post-Control civilization), but I think it's plausible that they'll cause problems.

Edit:
As for the understanding of the human brain, no, that's far from complete, but basically everyone agrees that its functionality is based on normal bio-chemistry. The brain may have emergent properties, but anyone seriously claiming an extradimensional component would be laughed out of the scientific community.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 31 août 2012 - 07:25 .