9089 réponses à ce sujet

[ghost9191]

and he said "Do not waver, victory is never won without difficult choices" that is why i liked javik. seemed that a decent amount of what he said kinda foreshadowed the ending choices

mainly pro destroy but still

ah the voice of reason

Modifié par ghost9191, 06 septembre 2012 - 10:05 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

ghost9191 wrote...

and he said "Do not waver, victory is never won without difficult choices" that is why i liked javik. seemed that a decent amount of what he said kinda foreshadowed the ending choices

mainly pro destroy but still

ah the voice of reason

Well I synthesized him. Guess he would want to have a few words with my Shepard in afterlife

Modifié par pirate1802, 06 septembre 2012 - 10:32 .

[ghost9191]

true but with the brainwashing done he is probably all sunshine and unicorns now. so your shep should be good

was a joke , not saying synthesis brainwashes .  

Modifié par ghost9191, 06 septembre 2012 - 10:31 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Either way, I have a headcanon that requires poor Javik to die if my SHepard is to be ressurected in Synthesis :/

[ghost9191]

sad, you would miss out on the conversation between the two then

[DirtyPhoenix]

I have a way of resurrecting him as well, after Shep is resurrected! Headcanon badassery!

[ghost9191]

but by that, wouldn't someone have to be sacrificed for javik to resurrected ?

[Juggle]

Nevermind.
Just empty talk.

Modifié par JDeelane, 06 septembre 2012 - 11:09 .

[Ieldra]

pirate1802 wrote...
I don't think the Mass Effect team thought it out at all, they made the story up as they went along, and showhorned synthesis at the last moment just for the sake of having a third ending. I honestly hope BioWare, and indeed other developers learn a lesson from this fiasco. This is not the way you make a trilogy.

Yeah, I agree. Lack of advance planning is responsible for this fiasco.

But there was always a third ending, even in the earlier leaked scripts. The earliest version was "Shepard becomes one with the Reapers", if you can believe that, and it was supposed to be an unambiguously good thing. I wonder how they expected to sell that to the player.

About forcing the change on so many people, yeah. That is a big problem and I'm sure it turns many prople off, but the problem is compounded when people headcanon that synthesis indoctrinates/brainwashes/reaperizes everyone. i mean forcing such a big choice is bad enough, and it is copounded when you think you are forcing a completely horrible thing. That is where misinformation/poor implementation thing comes in. It adds a layer of bad that isn't/shouldn't be there. I hope I made yself clear sometimes I mess my words up.

Oh, the people tooting "brainwashing, indoctrination" etc. don't get a free pass from me. It's completely clear that Synthesis isn't supposed to do that, and it's not even their headcanon since they don't choose Synthesis. It's just an attempt to ruin others' games for no better reason that they find Synthesis distasteful, and/or an attempt to keep the delusion of a necessary connection between good actions and good outcomes intact.

[Motherlander]

I have just starting reading an Ian Banks 's book and it occurs to me that Synthesis sounds a bit like The Culture. It occurs to me that Synthsis may even be inspired Ian Bank's The Culture as both are portrayed as Utopian societies.

Sorry if this was mentioned in previous posts. Any comments.

[Ieldra]

You mean with the Minds playing a similar role as the Reapers? I don't get that impression. The Minds are their own entities, they aren't created from harvested civilizations. I guess you could imagine a similar future after Synthesis, but the Culture is a very specific setting. General similarities like "it has utopian aspects" are not enough to create a more than superficial connection.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 septembre 2012 - 01:32 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

ghost9191 wrote...

but by that, wouldn't someone have to be sacrificed for javik to resurrected ?

Nope! Its Ieldra2's idea and I'm thinking it over since he posted it. It involves Javaik taking a look at his memory shard. He is mortified by it, and decides to commit suicide once this war has ended. He gives the shard to Shepard at the FOB level. So the shard contains both his and Shepard's memories. Which can be reanimated as AIs like Keiji Okuda:O

[Ieldra]

Credit where credit is due: it's jtav's idea, not mine.

BTW, I don't think Javik would want to be brought back btw... He kills himself because of those memories, remember? Shepard? Well, my Shepard would want to see the future he's created. In fact, not seeing it is his second-biggest regret, right after not getting a future with Miranda (or so it seems at the time when he makes the choice).

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 septembre 2012 - 01:58 .

[JamieCOTC]

A question. Javik states that machines know why they were created, in that they have certainty. After synthesis would they still have that certainty? Post synthesis, would a machine ask, "Is this all that I am?"

[Ieldra]

JamieCOTC wrote...
A question. Javik states that machines know why they were created, in that they have certainty. After synthesis would they still have that certainty? Post synthesis, would a machine ask, "Is this all that I am?"

Well of course they know. If they know their history, anyway. But you can take EDI as an example of how synthetics can develop. She becomes independent from Cerberus' programming and you can encourage her to be her own person. After Synthesis, she might gain a new level of awareness. Only, as opposed to organics, synthetics can know they can make themselves into what they want to be, an ability organics gain only with Synthesis. .

[Motherlander]

Ieldra2 wrote...

You mean with the Minds playing a similar role as the Reapers? I don't get that impression. The Minds are their own entities, they aren't created from harvested civilizations. I guess you could imagine a similar future after Synthesis, but the Culture is a very specific setting. General similarities like "it has utopian aspects" are not enough to create a more than superficial connection.

No, I am in no way saying that The Culture is identical to Synthesis in ME. But I do see the Culture (or something similar) as a possible evolutionary consequence off Synthesis.

This should be seen as something positive for Synthesis supporters, as the Culture is generally portrayed as being relatively positive.

When I compare The Culture and ME, I do not compare the Reapers with the minds. I more look at the societies in general.  The Culture is a society of several races where synthetics and organics live in harmony and are interlinked. To me this is what Synthesis represents at its core. I am skeptical about synthesis. But if it turned out like the Culture, I would look on it more positively.

Fo







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[Steelcan]

Many synthesis points raised here are valid. I disagree wholeheartedly with you, but I see your reasoning

[Ieldra]

Steelcan wrote...
Many synthesis points raised here are valid. I disagree wholeheartedly with you, but I see your reasoning

What is it you disagree with? I haven't made any arguments for a Synthesis preference in the OP (as opposed to elsehwere on this thread and forum), I only described what I see as some of the thematic and technical details, including some speculation. 

[DirtyPhoenix]

Leviathan provides a way out for synthesis headcannoneers. What if they planted a bug in Shepard's head when they enslaved him, which constantly relayed all his/her vital informations, memories etc, basically everything that makes Shepard who he is. Because they were clearly intrigued by him, and they may have been planning for war once the reapers are dealt with. So probably they may create a Shepard-clone with all that information to lead their armies in that war. That information can be stolen from the levys and be used to recreate our good ol' Shepard!

Modifié par pirate1802, 10 septembre 2012 - 12:38 .

[Ieldra]

@pirate1802:
That sounds a bit...unpalatable.

I prefer my "way out" by making Javik look into his memory shard, which results in him giving it to Shepard at the FOB. Shepard then copies all his memories into it before he enacts his final choice and leaves it on the Crucible platform. Someone finds the shard after the end and it somehow ends in the hands of the LI (nice story potential here). After that, all you need for a reconstruction is Shepard DNA, the memory shard and Miranda's files from the Lazarus project.

(As it happens, this way out will not be open for anyone who killed Miranda...)

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 septembre 2012 - 12:48 .

[Aurora313]

My headcanon always was that the secondary Function of the Crucible was to store the user's personality and memories (in essense, their 'soul') if Control or Synthesis were used. My current post-Synthesis headcanon is the discovery of that fact and the race against Leviathans to get Shepard back.

For my Bro!Shep however, he's still alive after the burst (don't ask how) but the visible changes like the glowing lines haven't happened yet. The Reapers suddenly up and left, and the husks became docile. Basically, the canon I have in mind for him and Ash is that they are observing the galaxy slowly transforming around them thanks to the Crucible.

Modifié par Aurora313, 10 septembre 2012 - 12:58 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Ok then I've got another one, this is even more contrived.

For whatever reasons, a huge Lazarus-like project is undertaken some time into the future. The objective is to recreate Shepard from memories. Many people, whom Shepard interacted with, participate (voluntarily). Their brains are scanned (harmless, and easier after synthesis) and their memories of Shepard are isolated and recreated as an AI. But Shepard, instead of being the same old woman, returns as the monster-hero amalgam people remember her as. She runs away and wanders the galaxy finding her purpose, her past, and eventually stumbles upon EDI. EDI guides this AI back to humanity just as Shepard guided EDI many years ago

[Reever]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@pirate1802:
That sounds a bit...unpalatable.

I prefer my "way out" by making Javik look into his memory shard, which results in him giving it to Shepard at the FOB. Shepard then copies all his memories into it before he enacts his final choice and leaves it on the Crucible platform. Someone finds the shard after the end and it somehow ends in the hands of the LI (nice story potential here). After that, all you need for a reconstruction is Shepard DNA, the memory shard and Miranda's files from the Lazarus project.

(As it happens, this way out will not be open for anyone who killed Miranda...)

Haha, that´s a great way to resurrect Shepard. Though it may not be possible, since his "essence" got dispersed. The clones might all not function

[Aurora313]

I somehow doubt Shepard would be fully functional for a long time after the end of ME - whether he's survived Destroy or reincarnated in Sythesis or Control. He's going to be psyhcologically screwed no matter how he survives.

[JeffZero]

I actually prefer no ways out... I like Shepard dying at the end in Synthesis. I have my Control files for him/her to "live" in. But these are neat headcanons!