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[Taboo]

I am the chosen one. I will drag that thread to glory whether Ieldra likes it or not. I'll slay trolls on the way as well.

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...
I am the chosen one. I will drag that thread to glory whether Ieldra likes it or not. I'll slay trolls on the way as well.

Instead, you're dragging it into meaninglessness. BTW, what's this obsession you appear to have with me?

As for something more on-topic: has anyone read "The Departure" and "Zero Point" by Neal Asher? A significant aspect of the story is about human consciousness transferring into data networks and gaining an aspect of what they call "comlife". The main character assimilates an AI into his augmented brain and comes to exist partly in the network and partly in his natural brain and survives being shot in the head for that reason. Then he goes on to grow external brains. Meanwhile, newly-programmed AIs get transferred to semi-organic bodies and start to grow as personalities. Very reminiscent of Synthesis.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 octobre 2012 - 08:21 .

[Xilizhra]

How exactly would the Reaper converts, husks and suchlike, gain independent intelligence? What kind would it be? Would it be closer to organic or synthetic. or would there be no real distinction? Would it be a new mind or, since the brain of the corpse seems to be intact, would it involve memories of the old mind, as brains can be resurrected in this game?

[Ieldra]

Do they gain *independent* intelligence? Or is that just the outward sign that their respective Reaper has escaped the Catalyst's mind control, and these beings are to be avatars of their Reaper? The latter is my hypothesis.

[Xilizhra]

If the Reapers gain independent intelligence via freedom from the control signal from the Catalyst, why would the converts not become similarly independent? I know that the Catalyst was destroyed, (and the destruction of the Citadel leading to the deaths of millions is admittedly making me reluctant to go for Synthesis), but it seems as though everything synthetic was supposed to gain more individuality/agency, similar to the geth earlier.

[Ieldra]

The Reapers do not "gain" independent intelligence. They've always had it. It was just subverted by the Catalyst. Also, the Reapers are "uploaded and conjoined minds". Synthesis doesn't break them up into their constituent minds, though a post-Synthesis "reincarnation" scenario has been debated. As I see it, the Reaper minions are either avatars of their Reaper, or something completely new.

[Xilizhra]

Hm. On that note, what would a Reaper's mind be like without the Catalyst enforcing its will on them? While the Reapers never expressed much emotion, they seemed very much like the Leviathans in personality except even more implacable. Would this change?

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Instead, you're dragging it into meaninglessness. BTW, what's this obsession you appear to have with me?

The people you scared away are coming back.

The influx of people is caused by some of us challenging your opinions. People simply lurked because of your past actions against them and they aren't afraid to post there anymore. I know this because they've told me. 

The irony of it is that they were right about the character all along and you weren't. And it's quite apparent to you now I think hence the tendency for "this isn't what I wanted or this isn't Miranda" being an incredibly common passive agressive way of post bombing. And it isn't just you either.

This is the character many people have always seen and they're coming out in force now to oppose you. People don't post their ideas because they fear your reprisal. I don't fear it. and most of the people coming in now don't either.

That is not a threat either. That is a fact. Soon you will see nothing but people with interpretations just like mine.

They are coming.

[Aurora313]

Id' stay that the Indoctrination is either broken, and that husk we say is confused because of the sudden rush of memories and the sudden reinstatement of its personality, and it's unsure exactly how to process what happened to it. Or, the husk is still linked to the Reaper's control, but when the Synthesis happens, it - like the Reapers - are suddenly thinking 'Hang on. I can't detect any organics. The hell is going on?'.

[atheelogos]

[quote]ElSuperGecko wrote...

Oh no. Just had a brainwave.
Synthesis = the fusion of organic and synthetic life.
Synthesis = the fusion of biological life with hardware/software.
Synthesis = BIO-WARE.

[Ieldra]

atheelogos wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Oh no. Just had a brainwave.
Synthesis = the fusion of organic and synthetic life.
Synthesis = the fusion of biological life with hardware/software.
Synthesis = BIO-WARE.

That's actually funny. In some SF universes, externally-grown built-in semi-organic augmentions are indeed called bioware.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 octobre 2012 - 12:06 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

I like to think that the reaction of the husk was the reaction of a nearby reaper as it came to its senses post-synthesis.

[The Devlish Redhead]

pirate1802 wrote...

I like to think that the reaction of the husk was the reaction of a nearby reaper as it came to its senses post-synthesis.

Actually in that fighting scene I thought the husk that was attacking that soldier had the look of horror on it's face the way it suddenly backed away. As it was begging for mercy.  It's like EVERYONE suddenly came to their senses and realised how futile fighting was.

I wonder if the Reapers had enough knowledge to restore the husks to their former selves?

[Ieldra]

Xilizhra wrote...
Hm. On that note, what would a Reaper's mind be like without the Catalyst enforcing its will on them? While the Reapers never expressed much emotion, they seemed very much like the Leviathans in personality except even more implacable. Would this change?

Reasonably, I would expect a free Reaper to have a personality somewhat similar to an archetypal individual of the species it was created from, but with less immediacy of emotion if applicable, implacable only in the way it is self-contained.

Doubtless, there will be variations in the attitude toward the other civilizations of the galaxy, but I think having just been released from mental enslavement may count for something.

[Aurora313]

Humble might be in the list. And - I don't want to say subservient... maybe redepmt Since these Reapers, while techincally seen as merciless killers by the galaxy at large, they were just as much the pawns of the Catalyst as the organics of the Cycles were. I'd say most of their personalities would be geared towards pentence.

[munnellyladt]

Synthesis,is forced if you choose it you know.
Maybe you like it,but what about others in the galaxy?
And the catalyst bites himself in the ass with that.

[DirtyPhoenix]

munnellyladt wrote...

Maybe you like it,but what about others in the galaxy?

Shepard doesn't have the luxury of an opinion poll at that moment. The same can be said of the other choices, in either of the three decision he is forcing his will on the galaxy.

[His Name was HYR!!]

The 62nd Flog wrote...

If synthesis can't be forced, what is shepard jumping into the beam for?

Galactic readiness can't be forced.

The solution itself can be.

In the same way Destroy and Control are forced.

[MerchantGOL]

The 62nd Flog wrote...

If synthesis can't be forced, what is shepard jumping into the beam for?

Shepard is an organic and was offerd and then accepted.

[Obadiah]

Anyone thought about how Synthesis as described by the Catalyst is possible? Just some random thoughts here.

It is described as a "chain reaction" from an energy wave which in the Synthesis epilogue seems to generate some new particles (atoms, molecules?) around the DNA double helix backbones or something. How would an energy wave with Shepard's "energy" (and mostly Crucible energy) cause a chain reaction to do that?

Obviously there is not not enough mass in Shepard to spread into every living thing in the galaxy, so to create this extra layer of to DNA, wouldn't it have to react with other parts of the body to gain particles? Wouldn't that by definition be destructive? I mean, it's not like only vestigial organs or something could be targeted because it is a chain reaction to all organic matter.

Catalyst: "Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology."

This new DNA generates.... what?... more robust structured organs... molecules or cells in organs which are synthetic? Our brains would gain more processing power and our bodies would be hardier. Why would that generate those circuit board-like structures on epidermis?

I understand that the end result is a more powerful and "perfect" organism, but why would any of this stop the creator/created cycle of violence? Does the increased capabilities of our minds mean we would be less prone to violence against synthetics?

Doesn't this just set the bar higher for the created to surpass? Won't organisms that value their own lives create robots for more menial or dangerous tasks which could then develop AI which seek freedom?

Modifié par Obadiah, 06 octobre 2012 - 06:47 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

The circuit board-like structure is merely a visual representation of a largely invisible change, because even Joker's cap and Garrus's armour has those green lines. As for why it would stop the cycle of violence between creator/created, read Ieldra2's posts a few pages back.

Modifié par pirate1802, 06 octobre 2012 - 07:34 .

[Baldrick67]

pirate1802 wrote...

The circuit board-like structure is merely a visual representation of a largely invisible change, because even Joker's cap and Garrus's armour has those green lines. As for why it would stop the cycle of violence between creator/created, read Ieldra2's posts a few pages back.

Invisible Change?

Everyone has glow in the dark eyes !

[ATiBotka]

Baldrick67 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

The circuit board-like structure is merely a visual representation of a largely invisible change, because even Joker's cap and Garrus's armour has those green lines. As for why it would stop the cycle of violence between creator/created, read Ieldra2's posts a few pages back.

Invisible Change?

Everyone has glow in the dark eyes !

It's just a visual representation. Nothing more.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Baldrick67 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

The circuit board-like structure is merely a visual representation of a largely invisible change, because even Joker's cap and Garrus's armour has those green lines. As for why it would stop the cycle of violence between creator/created, read Ieldra2's posts a few pages back.

Invisible Change?

Everyone has glow in the dark eyes !

Invisible change = Alteration of DNA on the microscopic level.
visual representation = glowy eyes and circuit skin.