9089 réponses à ce sujet

[CosmicGnosis]

Xilizhra wrote...

I myself would free the Reapers at some point under Control, when it was safe.

You see, that's what frustrates me about how Control is presented in the EC. At no point is it implied that Shepard will ever destroy or free the Reapers. Instead, it seems that Shepard and the Reapers are here to stay, bending the galaxy to his will.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:28 .

[Eterna]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I myself would free the Reapers at some point under Control, when it was safe.

You see, that's what frustrates me about how Control is presented in the EC. At no point is it implied that Shepard will ever destroy or free the Reapers. Instead, it seems that Shepard and the Reapers are here to stay, bending the galaxy to his will.

If by bending the galaxy to his will the Shepalyst stops all conflict and war I hardly see it as a bad thing. The Shepalyst doesn't treat Organics as slaves, it's simply a Peace Keeper. 

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

And yeah, I was rather surprised not to see any pigs flying by. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie] But as you observed at one time, we don't actually disagree as much as it sometimes appears. 

The color green is terrible and so are you. We simply need to work on the metaphors and you NOT taking everything I say so seriously. This IS a game forum after all. :kissing:

There are reasons I am the way I am. And if you ever want to know, please send me a PM. I suppose I owe you an explanation in some departments. Just please be considerate of what I'll tell you.

As I see it, Synthesis gives a boost as galactic civilization integrates the legacy of past cycles, but those civilizations can't have been that much more advanced because of the cycle. It's more that many different perspectives will be integrated and that will give rise to more creativity. The knowledge bound up the makeup of the Reapers will be more significant and easily deciphered, but people will be very wary of those things.

You're going to get things like culture and such other things. If anything it'll be like finding a galactic equivalent of the Library of Alexandria. I'd imagine that the cultural knowledge would be most interesting.

Have you read Kahlee's speech in Siduri's Synthesis epilogue? It's pre-EC, but it gives a rather good impression I agree with. As an immediate effect we have that mental networking. What comes after is complete speculation, and the physical aspects aren't that relevant compare to the mental as human minds gain the ability to integrate themselves with technology. I'd also speculate that only a very small minority will transform themselves significantly away from a baseline organic for quite some time, just because it makes for a better story.

No I haven't. I do remember doing that though. I seem to recall Miranda giving Shepard a very passionate embrace in the ending I worked with.

As for the rebuilding.... the epilogue slides are said to be set 20 to 200 years in the future.

Super MAC says that it takes ten to fifteen to rebuild fully. In all of the endings.

Super MAC > We petty mortals.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 11 octobre 2012 - 01:47 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Taboo-XX wrote...

If anything it'll be like finding a galactic equivalent of the Library of Alexandria. I'd imagine that the cultural knowledge would be most interesting.

I can't imagine what wonders would lie inside such a library!

[His Name was HYR!!]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

You see, that's what frustrates me about how Control is presented in the EC. At no point is it implied that Shepard will ever destroy or free the Reapers. Instead, it seems that Shepard and the Reapers are here to stay, bending the galaxy to his will.

Times like these are when you headcanon. Anything that has to do with your character's story/backstory, IMO, is headcanon material for the player.

I commend the writers' effort with Control's EC epilogue and taking morality into account, but they also simply cannot know my character enough to make it completely accurate to him. So whatever I like can stay (rebuilding the galaxy), what I don't is out ("big brother") and replaced.

I can't really headcanon Synthesis epilogue because it is what it is, like it or not. Some issues, but I'm mostly OK with it.

Destroy breath-scene is another one of those times. And really, I can't say I much pity the people who are unhappy with that scene, no offense to any Destroyers here. Every time I see a topic for it I have to shake my head at how much hand-holding some players demand. "Wahhh! I don't know if he's alive or dead!! What happens next?? Help me Bioware!!!" Crimny cripes, literally whatevery you want is what happens. You can go ANYWHERE with the story now. What's not to like?

[fiendishchicken]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

You see, that's what frustrates me about how Control is presented in the EC. At no point is it implied that Shepard will ever destroy or free the Reapers. Instead, it seems that Shepard and the Reapers are here to stay, bending the galaxy to his will.

Times like these are when you headcanon. Anything that has to do with your character's story/backstory, IMO, is headcanon material for the player.

I commend the writers' effort with Control's EC epilogue and taking morality into account, but they also simply cannot know my character enough to make it completely accurate to him. So whatever I like can stay (rebuilding the galaxy), what I don't is out ("big brother") and replaced.

I can't really headcanon Synthesis epilogue because it is what it is, like it or not. Some issues, but I'm mostly OK with it.

Destroy breath-scene is another one of those times. And really, I can't say I much pity the people who are unhappy with that scene, no offense to any Destroyers here. Every time I see a topic for it I have to shake my head at how much hand-holding some players demand. "Wahhh! I don't know if he's alive or dead!! What happens next?? Help me Bioware!!!" Crimny cripes, literally whatevery you want is what happens. You can go ANYWHERE with the story now. What's not to like?

What's not to like is that I paid 80 dollars to play BW's Commander Shepard.

You're damn right I want them to show that Shepard survived. I shouldn't have to leave everything to headcanon. Of couse there's a great deal of things that they can't and won't show and I'm fine with it. But there is a lot of bad ambiguity going on everywhere.

How hard would it have been to slip this in as the very last slide? That has everything I need really.

[His Name was HYR!!]

fiendishchicken wrote...

What's not to like is that I paid 80 dollars to play BW's Commander Shepard.

It's rather clear I'm not talking about Bioware's version of Shepard here, but the player's version. Besides which, they gave you 30 hours of gameplay with said Shepard, so...

You're damn right I want them to show that Shepard survived. I shouldn't have to leave everything to headcanon. Of couse there's a great deal of things that they can't and won't show and I'm fine with it. But there is a lot of bad ambiguity going on everywhere.

They did. Shepard's survival is pattently obvious. It's laughable to think he will remain "a torso in rubble" for eternity.

Again, hand-holding. I'm convinced that if they were to release a patch showing a rescue team finding him, saying he's still alive, then taking him to a hospital, the next complaint will just become "how do I know he recovers???"

How hard would it have been to slip this in as the very last slide? That has everything I need really.

*snip*

For one, bit hard to insert Custom!Shepard's face into a photograph. For two, you're seeing it now, better than they would have done it anyway. Or rather, but than they did do it. Which is the whole point. It would be worse to take his story in a direction that doesn't work for players. Said players complained that the ending did enough of that anyway.

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...

As I see it, Synthesis gives a boost as galactic civilization integrates the legacy of past cycles, but those civilizations can't have been that much more advanced because of the cycle. It's more that many different perspectives will be integrated and that will give rise to more creativity. The knowledge bound up the makeup of the Reapers will be more significant and easily deciphered, but people will be very wary of those things.

You're going to get things like culture and such other things. If anything it'll be like finding a galactic equivalent of the Library of Alexandria. I'd imagine that the cultural knowledge would be most interesting.

That's a strong and fitting metaphor, and incidentally a rather strong argument for keeping the Reapers alive if at all feasible.

Have you read Kahlee's speech in Siduri's Synthesis epilogue? It's pre-EC, but it gives a rather good impression I agree with. As an immediate effect we have that mental networking. What comes after is complete speculation, and the physical aspects aren't that relevant compare to the mental as human minds gain the ability to integrate themselves with technology. I'd also speculate that only a very small minority will transform themselves significantly away from a baseline organic for quite some time, just because it makes for a better story.

No I haven't. I do remember doing that though. I seem to recall Miranda giving Shepard a very passionate embrace in the ending I worked with.

Yes, that was the Destroy epilogue, and I found it very touching - their embrace on the battlefield becoming an iconic image of the Reaper War.

Kahlee's Synthesis speech in Siduri's epilogues goes like this (remember this was written long before the EC):

Post-Crucible, Day 41
Memorial speech delivered by Provisional Councilor Kahlee Sanders, at the ruins of St. Paul's Cathedral, London

I haven't ever given a speech like this before. A lot of us have been doing a lot of things for the first time, these past several weeks.

We're still figuring out how things are going to work now. We have these new spontaneous short-range networking capabilities—those of you who are physically present are sharing my thoughts at hyper-verbal speeds—and we're achieving a kind of unity and consensus that was never before possible. On the other hand, we still haven't established extra-system communications or travel, so we're not sure if the same thing is happening across the galaxy. We think it must be.

Even the Reapers are maintaining a presence in the network right now. I can feel their thoughts, so vast and timeless, like whales singing to each other in the lightless depths. I'm sorry. I seem to be straying from my prepared remarks.

We're here because, even as we mingle and exchange and learn, we need to mark what we have lost. We need to mourn. Those of us with organic origins have lost loved ones, homes, comrades-in-arms. Those of us with synthetic origins have lost analogous things. And all of us have lost so, so much time. Time spent at war with each other, when we could have been sharing and building and creating.

Out of all that has been lost, we have chosen today to mark the passing of a single human life. We are gathered together to mourn, and to celebrate, the enduring sacrifice of Commander Cyrus Shepard, the architect of our future.

Commander Shepard gave us our tomorrows. He isn't here to see them dawn. But all of us who look upon a rising star do so because of him.

We grieve, but we also rejoice. This is Shepard's victory. This is our victory. Thank you.

As for the rebuilding.... the epilogue slides are said to be set 20 to 200 years in the future.

Super MAC says that it takes ten to fifteen to rebuild fully. In all of the endings.

Super MAC > We petty mortals.

Yes, but the epilogues cover more time than the rebuilding. The timeframe is silly, but then, the whole post-Contact timeline is a mess of compressed events. They should've added a zero to the numbers. It's an old complaint. I recall making it on the old forums.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 octobre 2012 - 08:02 .

[Ieldra]

Eterna5 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I myself would free the Reapers at some point under Control, when it was safe.

You see, that's what frustrates me about how Control is presented in the EC. At no point is it implied that Shepard will ever destroy or free the Reapers. Instead, it seems that Shepard and the Reapers are here to stay, bending the galaxy to his will.

If by bending the galaxy to his will the Shepalyst stops all conflict and war I hardly see it as a bad thing. The Shepalyst doesn't treat Organics as slaves, it's simply a Peace Keeper. 

I'd also like to add that the point of Shepard becoming a synthetic and leaving significant aspects of his humanity behind is to become immune to the "corruption of power". There is nothing of his he must protect, no interests that can interfere with his mission, no special interest groups on which his power depends etc...

So what's left to criticize - if you want - is rather the thematic aspect, the notion that organics are immature and need strong leadership, at least for a time. I think the notion has enough merit to be considered, even though I don't exactly like it.

[Xilizhra]

My choice isn't about organics needing strong leadership necessarily, although I do believe some defense is necessary against forces like the Leviathans and krogan. Another large reason for me choosing it is that it's the most "neutral" ending; it has the fewest effects on the galaxy as a whole, only affecting the Reapers, and seems like the safest option to choose in such a time-crunched scenario as Shepard is in at that point.

[Ieldra]

Here's a question which was asked on an external forum. It's one I think every Synthesis supporter should be asked (I am one, so don't take this the wrong way) and I'm finding myself surprised that nobody asked it yet:

Would you Synthesize your LI without his/her consent?

I have my answer, but I'll ask for others' first. Needless to say, if your answer is "no", you should reconsider choosing Synthesis. If your answer is "yes", what's your rationale?

[Xilizhra]

Devoid of context, I can't answer it. I wouldn't do so unless it was necessary to stop something worse, I believe.

[fiendishchicken]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

It's rather clear I'm not talking about Bioware's version of Shepard here, but the player's version. Besides which, they gave you 30 hours of gameplay with said Shepard, so...

You're damn right I want them to show that Shepard survived. I shouldn't have to leave everything to headcanon. Of couse there's a great deal of things that they can't and won't show and I'm fine with it. But there is a lot of bad ambiguity going on everywhere.

They did. Shepard's survival is pattently obvious. It's laughable to think he will remain "a torso in rubble" for eternity.

Again, hand-holding. I'm convinced that if they were to release a patch showing a rescue team finding him, saying he's still alive, then taking him to a hospital, the next complaint will just become "how do I know he recovers???"

How hard would it have been to slip this in as the very last slide? That has everything I need really.

*snip*

For one, bit hard to insert Custom!Shepard's face into a photograph. For two, you're seeing it now, better than they would have done it anyway. Or rather, but than they did do it. Which is the whole point. It would be worse to take his story in a direction that doesn't work for players. Said players complained that the ending did enough of that anyway.

What I should have said was I paid $80 dollars for ME3, and I couldn't even play my Shepard the way I wanted too.

So much for playing an anti-alliance Shepard. Auto-dialogue was awful, and I just felt as though Shepard wasn't mine in the 3rd game.

Yes I do want my damn hand to be held. When I pay good money for it, I expect it. I don't want his survival "left to my imagination" I paid $80 solid dollars to see Shepard kick the Reapers ass and live to tell about it.

There are ways to overcome the obstacle there. And I wasn't meaning that image specifically. It was more of an example. You don't even have to show his face actually. Just show his body with a pan shot hiding his head.

The game just reeks with contrived emotion, laziness, contradictory morals on the part of the writers (due to a lack of communication among them), and just the fact that a Triple A game such as this was basically shoved out the door with only like 14-15 months of development time after the dark energy plot was cut a third of the way through dev.

[jtav]

I was the person who sparked the question. One Shepard answered yes. The other, no. Both romanced Miranda.

Alex remains with Synthesis. For him, the search for technological advancement and human excellence has been a driving force his whole life. So Synthesis is like Christmas. He hopes Miranda will understand that this is what they both worked for.

Matt was defined by his lack of choice. His biotics mean he had few paths other than the military open to him. So he won't take choice away from Miranda.

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...


That's a strong and fitting metaphor, and incidentally a rather strong argument for keeping the Reapers alive if at all feasible.

I have an image of Reaper goo being pulled out via a Synringe for some reason. What you do have are corpses and those can certainly be studied. This time we won't have to worry about people going nuts.

I'm trying to imagine a a Synthesized Reaper would even do.

"I WAS ONCE A RACE OF BEINGS."

"LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT OUR POETRY." 

"WE HAVE EVOLVED PAST THE NEED FOR BOWELS." 

Yes, that was the Destroy epilogue, and I found it very touching - their embrace on the battlefield becoming an iconic image of the Reaper War.

There's a concept running around of him being chastised after he wakes up. Being the stupid man he is he got hurt and worried Miranda.

Yes, but the epilogues cover more time than the rebuilding. The timeframe is silly, but then, the whole post-Contact timeline is a mess of compressed events. They should've added a zero to the numbers. It's an old complaint. I recall making it on the old forums.

That slide with Miranda isn't three hundred years in the future. And NO she hasn't lost anything. This is simply a "YES SHE'S ALIVE AND STILL INTERESTED IN SHEPARD" gimmick. There will be plenty of Shepard + Miranda LURVING in the future.

Also work.



Jacob is alive and teaching within a few years AND has a child.

They rebuild REALLY fast.

No doesn't make sense but neither does Vitalism. Every ending has a "LULZ" factor to it.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 11 octobre 2012 - 09:44 .

[CosmicGnosis]

This is for the Synthesis supporters:

Destroy vs. Control. Which one do you prefer, and why?

[Aurora313]

Either. They both have their merits. Shepard's survival is a non-issue to me most of the time. Control has the benefit of a gigantic galactic peace keeping force and the ability to rapidly repair the chaos and damage they created for the price of one martyr. There's also a force to use against the Leviathans should they get any ideas. Granted, the levis curb stomped the Reapers almost effortlessly by glaring at them.

Destroy has the galaxy crippled - in light of the Leviathan threat, there would be little to nothing they cold really do against them and there's nothing to say the Levis wouldn't try the whole Cycle again for an arbitrary reason.

[Xilizhra]

Granted, the levis curb stomped the Reapers almost effortlessly by glaring at them.

True, but they can't leave Despoina without thrall starships. If the planet is blockaded, things should be safe enough.

[Taboo]

All of the endings turn out okay. That's what the EC shows. Even in Destroy (High EMS of course) everything is just fine.

Nothing pleases me more than seeing Walters' Dark Age nonsense retconned.

And the Stargazer scene takes place ten thousand years in the future in ALL of the endings as stated by Walters. It canonizes ALL Shepards.

ALL of the endings are valid.

[Xilizhra]

Wasn't it 200 years at most? In any case, I find that a bit unlikely; it seems more like around fifty years. Maybe eighty.

[Taboo]

No the scene with Space Grandpa takes place ten thousand years in the future. It's original intention was to show that people were JUST coming out of a dark age.

Now it's just a little boy who wants to go to the stars and is too young.

In ten thousand years Shepard has become a legend. Notice in the subtitles he's called "The Shepherd" with an "e".

The man, the myth, the legend.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 12 octobre 2012 - 12:33 .

[MegaSovereign]

Taboo-XX wrote...

No the scene with Space Grandpa takes place ten thousand years in the future. It's original intention was to show that people were JUST coming out of a dark age.

Now it's just a little boy who wants to go to the stars and is too young.

In ten thousand years Shepard has become a legend. Notice in the subtitles he's called "The Shepherd" with an "e".

The man, the myth, the legend.

Is it really spelled that way?

Oh and I'm not doubting Bioware originally intended for a technological dark age (hence the stargazer scene for every ending) but it never fit the Control OR Synthesis endings even before the EC. Synthesis especially was suppose to uplift the galaxy...

[Bill Casey]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Here's a question which was asked on an external forum. It's one I think every Synthesis supporter should be asked (I am one, so don't take this the wrong way) and I'm finding myself surprised that nobody asked it yet:

Would you Synthesize your LI without his/her consent?

I have my answer, but I'll ask for others' first. Needless to say, if your answer is "no", you should reconsider choosing Synthesis. If your answer is "yes", what's your rationale?

Unless your love interest is dead, the ending already did ask you that question...
Did you think the green wave didn't hit them, or did you just not even think about it ?

I'm floored by this post...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 12 octobre 2012 - 12:51 .

[Wayning_Star]

Bill Casey wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Here's a question which was asked on an external forum. It's one I think every Synthesis supporter should be asked (I am one, so don't take this the wrong way) and I'm finding myself surprised that nobody asked it yet:

Would you Synthesize your LI without his/her consent?

I have my answer, but I'll ask for others' first. Needless to say, if your answer is "no", you should reconsider choosing Synthesis. If your answer is "yes", what's your rationale?

Unless your love interest is dead, the ending already did ask you that question...
Did you think the green wave didn't hit them, or did you just not even think about it ?

I'm floored by this post...

Actually, a bigger more possible approach to the question. "Why are organics so set on synthesis within a synthetic reality? It's not just about synthetic machines vs organic machines, or even, who/what came first.

It's more about why use technology at all? Why are organics so attracted to inorganic constructs, and so identify with them as "creatures"? Why did folks calls their cars'n stuff "Old Nelly"? OR "She's a good ship, Captain?

[DirtyPhoenix]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Here's a question which was asked on an external forum. It's one I think every Synthesis supporter should be asked (I am one, so don't take this the wrong way) and I'm finding myself surprised that nobody asked it yet:

Would you Synthesize your LI without his/her consent?

I have my answer, but I'll ask for others' first. Needless to say, if your answer is "no", you should reconsider choosing Synthesis. If your answer is "yes", what's your rationale?

If it is a lesser evil among other choices then yes, unfortunately.

Though I think Asaris would be far more accepting of Synthesis compared to other races.

Modifié par pirate1802, 12 octobre 2012 - 02:21 .