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[teh DRUMPf!!]

dreman9999 wrote...

The same way EDI is be made with reaper tech and have reaper codes and not turn us over to the reapers. She is the clear examle the reaper tech works way differently with synthetics then organics.

Reaper tech brings back Shepard.

[Vigilant111]

Taboo-XX wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Veneke wrote...

I must have missed the synthesis = authoritarianism link. Care to point it out to me?

You enforce a choice upon a large group of people based upon the views of one person. Do I really have to spell it out for you?

I shouldn't have to tell you anymore than that.

Democracy is overrated.

Especially when you're pressed for time and, you know, the Reapers are about to annihilate everything.

Democracy will always be better than the alternatives, Fascism and Communism. Both enforce authoritarian policies and attempt to make people equals. It doesn't work because people are still ***holes. Marx never understood that. The only way to do it is to brutally supress them.

If we go with the OP's theories The Krogan will still hate the Salarians in Synthesis. They'll just be upgraded. 

So galactic peace still remains in question between the species? pretty much back to square one, except without reaper threat, in previous replies I kinda assumed that after the synthesis energy is released, everyone will be the same and galactic peace will be achieved, but now it seems the synthesis option doesn't solve inter-species conflicts

Modifié par Vigilant111, 23 mai 2012 - 02:41 .

[Taboo]

Vigilant111 wrote...

So galactic peace still remains in question between the species? pretty much back to square one, except without reaper threat, in previous replies I kinda assumed that after the synthesis energy is released, everyone will be the same and galactic peace will be achieved, but now it seems the synthesis option doesn't solve inter-species conflicts

The only thing it solves is the Synthetic v. Organic issue.

People will still hate each other.

[antares_sublight]

It doesn't even solve the synthetic v organic issue. If there can still be pure synthetics created and there might still be pure organics evolved somewhere in the galaxy... then what was accomplished? If the argument is that Synthesis makes it so that these hybrids can "keep up" evolutionarily with pure synthetics, then pure organics will be wiped out because the hybrids will have to reach a singularity state in the same way as the pure synthetics.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Democracy will always be better than the alternatives, Fascism and Communism. Both enforce authoritarian policies and attempt to make people equals. It doesn't work because people are still ***holes. Marx never understood that. The only way to do it is to brutally supress them.

If we go with the OP's theories The Krogan will still hate the Salarians in Synthesis. They'll just be upgraded. 

Democracy is not mutually exclusive with Fascism or Communism. The latter are policies that can be implemented into democratic societies. Plenty of fascist and communist principles exist in democracies today.

If the argument is Democracy always being better than Dictatorship, I'd argue otherwise. Democracy is only viable if that society's populace is not stupid. Political leaders in democracies support policies that are popular, what people want. But if the people are stupid, what's popular won't often be what's best. Politicians trying to do what's best, but not popular, in a democracy will not last long.

Why hasn't democracy taken hold where the US tries to implement it? Lots of reasons, but I'd say chief among those reasons is that those people need to be lead, they are not capable of leading themselves.

Look at the krogan in this game. Wrex is basically a dictator, but what he's doing is probably best for the krogan people. If they decided things democratically, you'd probably end up with Wreav's policies, which are pretty awful for the krogan people.

[Taboo]

Synthesis simply feels like an upgrade I'll be able to achieve eventually.

The presentation is so poor it pains me.

[Vigilant111]

antares_sublight wrote...

It doesn't even solve the synthetic v organic issue. If there can still be pure synthetics created and there might still be pure organics evolved somewhere in the galaxy... then what was accomplished? If the argument is that Synthesis makes it so that these hybrids can "keep up" evolutionarily with pure synthetics, then pure organics will be wiped out because the hybrids will have to reach a singularity state in the same way as the pure synthetics.

Now its even worse, back to square 0, I don't know what to think...

but the argument against synthesis has reached its prime, I am content, I think

[Taboo]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Democracy will always be better than the alternatives, Fascism and Communism. Both enforce authoritarian policies and attempt to make people equals. It doesn't work because people are still ***holes. Marx never understood that. The only way to do it is to brutally supress them.

If we go with the OP's theories The Krogan will still hate the Salarians in Synthesis. They'll just be upgraded. 

Democracy is not mutually exclusive with Fascism or Communism. The latter are policies that can be implemented into democratic societies. Plenty of fascist and communist principles exist in democracies today.

If the argument is Democracy always being better than Dictatorship, I'd argue otherwise. Democracy is only viable if that society's populace is not stupid. Political leaders in democracies support policies that are popular, what people want. But if the people are stupid, what's popular won't often be what's best. Politicians trying to do what's best, but not popular, in a democracy will not last long.

Why hasn't democracy taken hold where the US tries to implement it? Lots of reasons, but I'd say chief among those reasons is that those people need to be lead, they are not capable of leading themselves.

Look at the krogan in this game. Wrex is basically a dictator, but what he's doing is probably best for the krogan people. If they decided things democratically, you'd probably end up with Wreav's policies, which are pretty awful for the krogan people.

On that we can agree, but that's the interesting thing we have here. I trust Wrex, and I trust him even more with Eve by his side. A strong leader can achieve great things, but only if the people are willing to go along with it. If Wrex can maintain control of the clans, the Krogans will prosper. I don't think Wrex will have to suppress anyone in such a situation.

I've never had a data with Wreav though, and I get the general idea that he is nowhere near as compotent as Wrex. Is that the consensus here as well?

The United States hasn't been practicing proper democracy for quite a while now.

[Uncle Jo]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The same way EDI is be made with reaper tech and have reaper codes and not turn us over to the reapers. She is the clear examle the reaper tech works way differently with synthetics then organics.

Reaper tech brings back Shepard.

Pure assumption. Prove it.

[Taboo]

Uncle Jo wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The same way EDI is be made with reaper tech and have reaper codes and not turn us over to the reapers. She is the clear examle the reaper tech works way differently with synthetics then organics.

Reaper tech brings back Shepard.

Pure assumption. Prove it.

I seem to believe that they used cell regeneration to do that.

It doesn't matter though, because he can survive Destroy.

[Ieldra]

Vigilant111 wrote...
@Ieldra2: a hell of an assumption u are making here, mixing of DNA is not a simple procedure, any misstep will result in mutation, phenotype must reflect genotype, I doubt that this so called energy could ensure a seamless transition and like a nuclear blast, effects of it on organics may not always be immediate or appearent after sometime

For the 1000st time: There is no mixing of DNA. That's a metaphor. And if you disagree, then please explain to me in which way a DNA analogue could have the attribute "synthetic" is the same way "synthetic" is used for beings like EDI and Legion. Explain how this wouldn't turn synthetics into organics. .

[Uncle Jo]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The same way EDI is be made with reaper tech and have reaper codes and not turn us over to the reapers. She is the clear examle the reaper tech works way differently with synthetics then organics.

Reaper tech brings back Shepard.

Pure assumption. Prove it.

I seem to believe that they used cell regeneration to do that.

It doesn't matter though, because he can survive Destroy.

God, please don't start with this. If there is anything that I'll never buy in the face valued ending, then it's the survival of Shep.
Don't bring the argument "Mass effect Shields protected Shepard from the explosion of the Citadel, an eventual re-entry in the atmosphere and the crash on Earth"...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 23 mai 2012 - 03:13 .

[Vigilant111]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The same way EDI is be made with reaper tech and have reaper codes and not turn us over to the reapers. She is the clear examle the reaper tech works way differently with synthetics then organics.

Reaper tech brings back Shepard.

Pure assumption. Prove it.

I seem to believe that they used cell regeneration to do that.

It doesn't matter though, because he can survive Destroy.

Yea I don't think it was reaper tech that bought back Shepard, cos Reapers are not known to revive an organic individual in this way, if anything they specialise in converting organics into something different

[Taboo]

Uncle Jo wrote...

God, please don't start with this. If there is anything that I'll never buy in the face valued ending, then it's the survival of Shep.
Don't bring the argument "Mass effect Shields protected Shepard from the explosion of the Citadel, an eventual re-entry in the atmosphere and the crash on Earth"...

It's called suspension if disbelif. It's no different from explosions in space.

It's simply take to the extreme here.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I've never had a data with Wreav though, and I get the general idea that he is nowhere near as compotent as Wrex. Is that the consensus here as well?

I actually found the whole genophage arc more enjoyable to play with Wreav in charge. Even better if you destroyed Maelon's data, because he'll know about it and take issue right away (as does Wrex, I haven't seen that one though).

Wrex is one of my favorite characters, but in this game, he's basically a goody-two-shoes. Wreav, for the most part, represents the worst of the krogan, while Eve represents the best of them. But he's actually somewhat complex. He expresses resent towards you for destroying Maelon's data, but then is suprisingly forgiving after Sur'Kesh. If Eve survives, he's not happy about her being in his way. If she dies, his dialogue suggests that he genuinely sees her death as tragic and that he respects the strength she showed. In the end, I felt like he was an interesting and worthwhile character to deal with.

I'm not sure who the default krogan leader is in a new ME3 career. But if you can get a career with him in charge, trying playing it. Since the genophage arc is early in the game, it's not a big time comittment.

That is, if you appreciate complex characters. It seems like most of this site would rather have everyone be Liara and worship the ground you walk on.

[Vigilant111]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...
@Ieldra2: a hell of an assumption u are making here, mixing of DNA is not a simple procedure, any misstep will result in mutation, phenotype must reflect genotype, I doubt that this so called energy could ensure a seamless transition and like a nuclear blast, effects of it on organics may not always be immediate or appearent after sometime

For the 1000st time: There is no mixing of DNA. That's a metaphor. And if you disagree, then please explain to me in which way a DNA analogue could have the attribute "synthetic" is the same way "synthetic" is used for beings like EDI and Legion. Explain how this wouldn't turn synthetics into organics. .

How is Shepard supposed to interpret this then: "...add your energy to the crucible, everything u are will be absorbed and then sent out, the chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework, A NEW DNA."?

Modifié par Vigilant111, 23 mai 2012 - 03:32 .

[Uncle Jo]

Ieldra2 wrote...


For the 1000st time: There is no mixing of DNA. That's a metaphor. And if you disagree, then please explain to me in which way a DNA analogue could have the attribute "synthetic" is the same way "synthetic" is used for beings like EDI and Legion. Explain how this wouldn't turn synthetics into organics. .

And for the 1000th time, your logic is wrong. Why? 'Cause the starting point is wrong: you assume that there is no difference between synthetics and organics. 'Cause you're proposing your molecular nanotechnology and digitalized organic informations.

These are TECH (artificial NOT natural) which don't have nothing in themselves that could be halfway organic.

Where is your damn symbiosis? 

Organics are about DNA , GENES, CELLS, ORGANS. Where do I find them by the synthetics if I follow your logic???

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 23 mai 2012 - 03:36 .

[dreman9999]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The same way EDI is be made with reaper tech and have reaper codes and not turn us over to the reapers. She is the clear examle the reaper tech works way differently with synthetics then organics.

Reaper tech brings back Shepard.

Link please..That was always an assunption. If reaper tech did bring him back...That' a point for IT.

[Taboo]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
I'm not sure who the default krogan leader is in a new ME3 career. But if you can get a career with him in charge, trying playing it. Since the genophage arc is early in the game, it's not a big time comittment.

That is, if you appreciate complex characters. It seems like most of this site would rather have everyone be Liara and worship the ground you walk on.

Wreav is the default, Wrex is dead. Wrex is rather blunt in his beliefs though, which is probably why you prefer Wreav. At least that's what I got from your post.

A great majority of the characters are complex, some more than others.

Liara is just around too damn much.

[Vigilant111]

How is Shepard supposed to interpret this then: "...add your energy to the crucible, everything u are will be absorbed and then sent out, the chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework, A NEW DNA."?

I kinda get what u mean now, synthetics don't have DNA, above statement is a s**tty plothole

[dreman9999]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...
@Ieldra2: a hell of an assumption u are making here, mixing of DNA is not a simple procedure, any misstep will result in mutation, phenotype must reflect genotype, I doubt that this so called energy could ensure a seamless transition and like a nuclear blast, effects of it on organics may not always be immediate or appearent after sometime

For the 1000st time: There is no mixing of DNA. That's a metaphor. And if you disagree, then please explain to me in which way a DNA analogue could have the attribute "synthetic" is the same way "synthetic" is used for beings like EDI and Legion. Explain how this wouldn't turn synthetics into organics. .

How is Shepard supposed to interpret this then: "...add your energy to the crucible, everything u are will be absorbed and then sent out, the chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework, A NEW DNA."?

The problem your having withthis is how Shepard 
interpret  it is uninportant. IT what the starchild fells it mean. The vague awnser are being used so it's open to interpretation but....Only the starchild knws how it works so he is the only oneto apply it. This make the star child hard to trust.

[dreman9999]

Vigilant111 wrote...

How is Shepard supposed to interpret this then: "...add your energy to the crucible, everything u are will be absorbed and then sent out, the chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework, A NEW DNA."?

I kinda get what u mean now, synthetics don't have DNA, above statement is a s**tty plothole

More like a reaper trick. Remeber, machine with a history of deception. Indoctriantion in it self warps and control the limbicsystem which the persons beleif ideals reside in.

[Vigilant111]

I just realized the major flaw with this synthesis plan, even though Geth is considered a life form, it does not have DNA like humanoid machines

[Ieldra]

Vigilant111 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

It doesn't even solve the synthetic v organic issue. If there can still be pure synthetics created and there might still be pure organics evolved somewhere in the galaxy... then what was accomplished? If the argument is that Synthesis makes it so that these hybrids can "keep up" evolutionarily with pure synthetics, then pure organics will be wiped out because the hybrids will have to reach a singularity state in the same way as the pure synthetics.

Now its even worse, back to square 0, I don't know what to think...

but the argument against synthesis has reached its prime, I am content, I think

"Pure" organics will be as rare in this scenario as pure synthetics. All I said it is still *possible* to build synthetics. To make that impossible you'd have to permanently mind-control everyone. But since now everyone has the advantages restricted to synthetics pre-Synthesis, why would anyone need a pure synthetic? If all you need is a machine, you just build a machine. It doesn't need to be intelligent. 

But *should* someone build a pure synthetic, and should that synthetic approach the singularity, It will pose no danger because everyone else will already be there. Also, pure organics and upgraded organics will still share their basic biochemistry and can reproduce with each other if from the same species, though if the mother is a hybrid, the child will be one, too. 

[Uncle Jo]

Dble post

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 23 mai 2012 - 03:35 .