9089 réponses à ce sujet

[clennon8]

I see that you subscribe to the "All opinions are precious butterflies and must be equally appreciated" doctrine.

I don't.

Obvious indoctrination attempt is obvious. It isn't like the first 99% of the Mass Effect series didn't give us plenty of examples.

[Ieldra]

A Bethesda Fan wrote...
It is a trick.
Synthesis takes away everything we enjoy.

You like to socialize and joke? Nope can't anymore.
You like to sex people? No can't anymore.
You like to think freely? Nope can't Catalyst is controlling your thoughts.

May I ask where the evidence for that is? I don't ask for proof, just for evidence. Watch the epilogues. Do the characters we know look like they've changed into someone else? Like they're unable to joke and socialize?

[Steelcan]

clennon8 wrote...

I see that you subscribe to the "All opinions are precious butterflies and must be equally appreciated" doctrine.

I don't.

Obvious indoctrination attempt is obvious. It isn't like the first 99% of the Mass Effect series didn't give us plenty of examples.

. I never said that.  I said they have their opinion.  I have mine.  You have yours, you are not going to convince anyone of something they don't already believe

[His Name was HYR!!]

Calling Control and/or Synthesis indoctrination is simply denial, at this point. You have to deny what happened at face value. And the intent is obvious, the insatiable need to validate Destroy's very meh epilogue.

Don't project your denial and insecurity onto us. We have the game on our side, not just speculation.

[ghost9191]

well edi is kinda off to me , but that is me. and her statement about the krogan when wreav is in charge is kinda creepy

[Steelcan]

Hey now I like Destroy's epilogue much better than Control and Synthesis

[His Name was HYR!!]

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

A Bethesda Fan wrote...
It is a trick.
Synthesis takes away everything we enjoy.

You like to socialize and joke? Nope can't anymore.
You like to sex people? No can't anymore.
You like to think freely? Nope can't Catalyst is controlling your thoughts.

May I ask where the evidence for that is? I don't ask for proof, just for evidence. Watch the epilogues. Do the characters we know look like they've changed into someone else? Like they're unable to joke and socialize?

Yes they do.
I see behind the lies, synthesis is enslavement.

Your Shepard ruined everything.

You like beastiality pornos, you just don't know it.

Argue with that.

[Kabooooom]

I see that you subscribe to the "All opinions are precious butterflies and must be equally appreciated" doctrine.

Of course not, some opinions are certainly superior to others when they are supported by evidence.

You have no evidence, or at least no more than anyone else does. That puts you on equal footing. Sorry if that annoys you, but it's the truth. Especially since Bioware deliberately made the endings vague for that purpose.

And I hate to burst your bubble, but in all likelihood IT was not their original intent. It was just ****ty writing, plain and simple. Afterwards, they realized that not only was it a good idea but a number of fans actually WANTED it. In an attempt to save face, they took the route they did. That's just observing the real-world facts on the matter.

But you can keep on believing that they intended IT from the beginning and someday soon they are gonna be all 'JK guyz lol we sure fooled you huh? U mad?'.

Modifié par Kabooooom, 31 octobre 2012 - 10:44 .

[clennon8]

I point to the entirety of the game series as "evidence."

[ghost9191]

Steelcan wrote...

Hey now I like Destroy's epilogue much better than Control and Synthesis

all about hope man. i like it . as said edi doesn't seem right to me in synthesis . and control does bring me close to tears at the memorial scene. with Mark Meer doing the voice

manly tears that is

[Ieldra]

Kabooooom wrote...

clennon8 wrote...
I'll say it again. Reduced to a base concept and not an ending in Mass Effect 3, I see nothing wrong with Synthesis. In the context of this game's narrative, though, it's a trick. A pretty obvious one at that.

You can interpret it that way, as I said. Or you can interpret it literally. Bioware wanted it to be an open ended question.

I personally view Synthesis and Control as a semi-indoctrination attempt, or at the very least what the Catalyst prefers to extinction. But each ending clearly works out alright. I still choose to blast the Reapers to hell and back.

But others prefer other endings, or other interpretations. And that's fine. Trying to argue that your view is somehow objectively superior is a bit amusing to say the least.

Actually, I doubt Bioware intended an "indoctrination" interpretation. They just didn't outright deny it when it came up, but the EC makes it pretty clear we're supposed to take the ending outcomes at face value.

[Ieldra]

Arguments like that just prove that IT is a conspiracy theory. And now can we please stop derailing this thread?

[clennon8]

Wishful thinking, Ieldra. It was quite clearly intended, and EC didn't do jack squat except offer up a completely laughable rescue scene and some dopy "We will do such and such" slides delivered with creepy narration in the same vein as things said by Reapers and indoctrinated villains throughout the game.

It's quite bizarre that people would cling so tenaciously to the theory that Bioware suddenly forgot everything about Mass Effect, eschewed every lesson they had taught, and abandoned every theme they had nurtured for the first 99% of the narrative.

I've spent my time being angry about the endings, but really I have to applaud Bioware for getting so many of you to willingly throw yourselves into the beam.

[Kabooooom]

clennon8 wrote...

I point to the entirety of the game series as "evidence."

Written by multiple individuals, who decided to interject a deus ex machina in the last ten minutes of the game, for better or for worse.

It's quite bizarre that people would cling so tenaciously to the theory
that Bioware suddenly forgot everything about Mass Effect, eschewed
every lesson they had taught, and abandoned every theme they had
nurtured for the first 99% of the narrative.

What they intended was to have a twist at the end in which you reconsider the nature of the Reapers and abandon your desire to destroy them. That certainly sounds like Indoctrination, but honestly - I don't think they were that clever. People like me still choose Destroy anyways, since clearly the Catalyst prefers Control and Synthesis, and **** that kid.

But sorry dude, holding out hope that Bioware is going to make a public announcement canonizing IT this late is pretty foolish. You'd have a better chance hoping Jesus will return. Which also won't ever happen, in case you were wondering.

Modifié par Kabooooom, 31 octobre 2012 - 10:58 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

Speaking of Bioware's "intentions" ...

I started playing a new ME3 career, doing lots of stuff I haven't done in other careers, just for the sake of seeing how those things turn out. So among other stuff, I freed the surrogate rachni-breeder, created by the Reapers.

When you make a bad decision in any ME game, you know about it. There's no vagueness or trickery involved. They tell you you're stupid and that you should feel stupid. The consequences are unmistakably negative and you hear all kinds of criticism for making that wrong decision.

That's why Mainstream IT and IT-Con is deluded stuff. Bioware, at least the ME team, doesn't play games like "let's make the player believe they won when they didn't!"

And when it comes down to it, there's no point in having a trick and then never clearly revealing the trickery.

[clennon8]

Well, they were either clever or suddenly turned into colossal morons. Take your pick.

ed:  Also, I'm an atheist, so no I won't be waiting for Jesus to return.  That, at least, is something Ieldra and I agree on.

Modifié par clennon8, 31 octobre 2012 - 11:01 .

[jtav]

clen, get out. You have a very active IT thread you can post in. I would like to have one thread where I am not harassed and hounded because you're bitter. I have my happy ending and I am tired of you doing everything you can to ruin it.

[Ieldra]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
Speaking of Bioware's "intentions" ...

I started playing a new ME3 career, doing lots of stuff I haven't done in other careers, just for the sake of seeing how those things turn out. So among other stuff, I freed the surrogate rachni-breeder, created by the Reapers.

When you make a bad decision in any ME game, you know about it. There's no vagueness or trickery involved. They tell you you're stupid and that you should feel stupid. The consequences are unmistakably negative and you hear all kinds of criticism for making that wrong decision.

That's why Mainstream IT and IT-Con is deluded stuff. Bioware, at least the ME team, doesn't play games like "let's make the player believe they won when they didn't!"

And when it comes down to it, there's no point in having a trick and then never clearly revealing the trickery.

Indeed. Were it intended, we would know it.

@all:
And yet again, I would rather not derail this thread with further discussion of IT. There is another place for it, and here it is not appreciated.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
clen, get out. You have a very active IT thread you can post in. I would like to have one thread where I am not harassed and hounded because you're bitter. I have my happy ending and I am tired of you doing everything you can to ruin it.

Seconded.

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
clen, get out. You have a very active IT thread you can post in. I would like to have one thread where I am not harassed and hounded because you're bitter. I have my happy ending and I am tired of you doing everything you can to ruin it.

Seconded.

. Thirded, and I'm an vid destroyer.

[clennon8]

Fine. Sorry to interrupt your sermon.