Aller au contenu

Photo

A different ascension - the Synthesis compendium (now with EC material integrated)


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
9089 réponses à ce sujet

#6601
ElSuperGecko

ElSuperGecko
  • Members
  • 2 317 messages

Seival wrote...
...Or maybe there is a compromise. It may be done in the final DLC, if BioWare will find the idea good enough.

Here is the idea. Green eyes/skin glows should be shown only temporary. For example, we see a sequence about Krogan just after Synthesis was applied - eyes/skin glows appear, hold for a shot time, then start to fade, and finally disappear completely. As a result - we know the Synthesis was applied, and no excess visuals remain. That would look similar to this sequence (player was notified about the permanent change by a temporary visuals):
http://www.youtube.c...5zEZ8Ml4#t=142s


Bioware are done with the endings, didn't you hear?  Sorry, but you're stuck forever with the glowing green eyes and chewing your way through the circuitry and wires in your bacon and steak, unless you want to headcanon it all away to make it better...

#6602
Seival

Seival
  • Members
  • 5 294 messages

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Seival wrote...
...Or maybe there is a compromise. It may be done in the final DLC, if BioWare will find the idea good enough.

Here is the idea. Green eyes/skin glows should be shown only temporary. For example, we see a sequence about Krogan just after Synthesis was applied - eyes/skin glows appear, hold for a shot time, then start to fade, and finally disappear completely. As a result - we know the Synthesis was applied, and no excess visuals remain. That would look similar to this sequence (player was notified about the permanent change by a temporary visuals):
http://www.youtube.c...5zEZ8Ml4#t=142s


Bioware are done with the endings, didn't you hear?  Sorry, but you're stuck forever with the glowing green eyes and chewing your way through the circuitry and wires in your bacon and steak, unless you want to headcanon it all away to make it better...


Personally, I have nothing against even permanent non-symbolical green eyes/skin/plant glows. I see nothing creepy in that. I find the glows rather beautiful. But I think they were intended to be temporary and/or symbolical, and explaining that in the final cinematic would not change the ending concept.

#6603
Chashan

Chashan
  • Members
  • 1 654 messages

Seival wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

Once the final DLC is out, we need to mod Synthesis to try to remove some of the truly stupid stuff in there ("new DNA", circuit board skin and leaves). I'm cool with the "non-literal artistic visualization" explanation, but in comparison to the other endings, it should be made more literal.

How hard could it be?


Personally, I think modding is not a good idea in general. It breaks the game license agreement after all...

...I think everyone who understand Synthesis also understand that "glowing eyes/skin" are just temporary post-synthesis effect, or symbolical representation of permanent changes made to organics and synthetics. The mod you are talking about is not needed.


No offense, but personally, I consider that "representation" to just be one thing: ugly. And unnecessary to boot, given what BW were potentially aiming to show with that and how they could have gone about it instead.

Modifications are one of the key reasons I have stuck and am still sticking with the PC-platform, an optional component made by fans that quite a few times turn out remarkably well and even enrich the game they are made for. Not to mention increase of a game's "life-time".
So you do not think it necessary for yourself. Fine. That is within the nature of the thing, really, so you are welcome to sticking to the original fare of Green.

Thats actually a good idea. And it wouldn't not be that hard given
we could just use the slides from the other endings. Moer difficult
would be modding the cutscenes (if not outright impossible).

I wish we had our own MrFob..


Technically speaking, I do not think such a project quite as unlikely as all that. As shown with MEHEM, the circuitry can be done away with quite easily in the memorial-scene. Using custom slides would also work, as those are ultimately still pictures. Even alternate VO can be done for the epilogue, MrFob's MEEM demonstrates this.

The .bik-files, however, would indeed be tricky...replacements may work, and to some degree mix-and-matching videos could go some ways too. Using Hackett's initial lines as the remnant fleet flies by may serve as a sorta okay start - after all, Synthesis does "defeat" the Reapers, and the relays_are_severely damaged in all three options. However, and it is not exactly something I desire too much myself, using the infamous Normandy-landing on "Eden" may serve to bridge the time until the slides come up.

Ultimately, what would make and break such a new take on an end that preserves both Blue and Green would be an overhaul of the "exchange" with the creature in the dialogue-wheel room. MEEM goes some lengths there already that serve to improve that, although it is not quite there yet to do away with things like the electrocution or the jump into the beam to initiate either of those. What may of course be simpler would be to go about it a similar way as MEHEM and simply replace files tailored for the desired Blue or Green ending and thus bypass the dialogue-room. Not terribly elegant, but maybe simpler to implement.

Just shooting ideas, there. Who knows, maybe BW does have something in the pipeline these next few weeks in the way of mind-blowingly good official conclusion for all parties involved...^_^

#6604
Reth Shepherd

Reth Shepherd
  • Members
  • 1 437 messages

Chris Priestly wrote...

Sorry, we won't be releasing official modding tools. Not all of the tools we used to make ME3 are owned by BioWare/EA so we do not have the rights to release them to the public. If fans want to mod the game thats fine (as long as done within legal guidelines and not-for-profit) but we won't be releasing any tools.



[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]


So much for that idea. :pinched:  Quote is here, if you want to check it out personally.

#6605
Taboo

Taboo
  • Members
  • 20 234 messages
They don't have the rights to distribute the Unreal Engine? Did they seriously just license it for use in the game?

Epic fail.

#6606
SimonTheFrog

SimonTheFrog
  • Members
  • 1 656 messages

Caliann5 wrote...

Just throwing my two cents in on the whole Synthesis issue... (and after just 8 months, wow, I'm fast). ;)

First of all, while I sort of (if I squint really, really hard) appreciate what Bioware tried to do with Synthesis ('tried' being the operative word here), I, or any of the Shepards that I've created, would have never chosen that particular ending. I'll explain why in a bit. That said, the fact that an ending doesn't appeal to a player, doesn't mean that such an ending - if done right - isn't a valid one. And here we come to the problem - it just wasn't done right.

This applies to the whole 10 minute mess that was the original ending (with the EC removing some of the glaring black-hole-sized inconstancies, plot holes and providing at least some closure).

Bioware created an amazing story, and that's something we can all agree on. Considering the shear scope, complexity and, yes, the incredible attention that went into the creation of the whole Mass Effect universe, it's not surprising that the guys at Bioware didn't want their (epic) story to end with a run-of-the-mill end-boss fight. Good call - I wouldn't want it to either.

They wanted their ending to be provoking and different and I applaud the intent if not the execution. 

Now, there have been tons and tons of threads that explained in depth why the Space Brat (that is it's canon name
as far as I'm concerned) just doesn't work as a plot device. To name a few reasons, we have: removing player agency, narrative inconsistency, introducing new concepts so late in the game with no foreshadowing whatsoever, introducing concepts late in the game that contradict the previously established themes of the game. I wont get into the whole circular logic argument (for me, its logic isn’t as much circular as it is fundamentally flawed, but can be valid from the limited perspective of an AI that was created for a singular purpose). In short, the Space Brat is a deus ex machina plot device where an unsolvableproblem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object (quote shamelessly stolen from the Wiki).

(I also have a whole other issue with the Crucible as a plot point – ‘So we’re building this huge Prothean thing, right? … Hmmm… It’s a weapon, you say? … And we have no idea what it does? … Cool! Let’s do it!’ – but the situation is desperate enough for them to try pretty much anything, so I can let it slide. I also have a whole related issue with auto dialogue, but that’s neither here nor there.)  

Now, deus ex machina is a time honored plot device that has it’s uses, but it just doesn’t work here. Just a
few general points and I’ll concentrate on the Synthesis ending and try and explain why it doesn’t work for me from a story telling standpoint and from Shepard’s perspective as a protagonist (and if I missed some nuances from
the EC ending, i apologize in advance).

In general:

Why is the Space Brat offering Shepard these choices at all?

All we get is a vague line ‘the Crucible changed me’ (er, how? do tell… no, really) and that its solution “doesn’t work anymore”. In the EC we also get some more details about the creators of the Space Brat (a race that ended up as the first Reaper apparently, after being nearly wiped out by synthetics and creating the Space Brat as a form of defense… poor guys just couldn’t catch a break). After that the Space Brat – an AI that clearly has a huge bug in it’s programming - offers Shepard three choices. Now, consider this from the AI’s perspective, which is an entity created with a single purpose – finding the solution to the organics vrs. synthetics conflict, and the choices in short boil down to this:

Destroy

“No, Shepard, really, I’m kind of tired of this crap, so can you please stop your dawdling and push that red button over there, so I can finally get some shut-eye and leave this problem solving to someone
else. Man, my circuits hurt from all this thinking.”


Control

“You’re so awesome for a puny human that I’ll just hand over my immense army to you. How is it that you’re still just a Commander, by the way? Push that blue button and I can finally get some shut-eye, and you can try and solve that organics vrs. synthetics conflict all by your lonesome. Sucker. Man, I’m good.”

Synthesis

"I give up. You people just can’t play nice. I can finally get some shut-eye and my circuits still hurt. Oh, push green.”

See what I mean? Now, I suppose that the general idea was that the Space Brat had seen the error of its ways and the long run failure of its original plan, but the necessary leap of reasoning just isn’t present in the in game dialogue we get. For example, if we consider that each Reaper is a composite of one organic civilization wiped out by the Reapers in previous Cycles and that one of the mandates of the Space Brat is to preserve those remains and allow new civilizations to take their place, presenting Shepard with the option to destroy them not only doesn’t make sense, but should also be in direct conflict with the AI’s basic programming. Also, destroy ends all existing synthetic life in the galaxy, but doesn’t stop organics from making new ones. An acceptable risk for some Shepards, but is it an acceptable risk for the AI?

Control is also problematic from the AI’s standpoint – how would the Star Brat know that the entity that Shepard will become (awesomeness aside, we have all made some Shepards with questionable morals) would be able to achieve the purpose that the original creators programmed Star Brat with? Consider also that in the Refuse[/i]
EC ending, it’s clearly shown that we lose, so the AI should have had a whole new circle (50.000 years) to rethink
its strategy, if it is true that it had figured out that blunt aggression wouldn’t work anymore.  

(I have to state that I have less of a problem with the Refuse ending than with the rest - at least that ending follows the narrative, in the sense that it's stated multiple times in the game that we can't win using conventional warfare)

Basically, destroy and control endings are the equivalent of the AI throwing its hands up in the air and yelling ‘I quit’.  The only choice presented that actually makes sense from the Star Brat’s point of view is Synthesis, combining syntetic and organic life into a new life form. Wham-bam, thank you, ma’am. Problem solved. Right?

Kind of. If you squint.

Without even delving into the moral issues of rewriting an entire galaxy of sentient beings without their consent (that's Shepard's problem, the AI doesn’t care about that), or the issue of how for the love of god is this suddenly possible (the ‘Crucible changed me’ vague nonsense) – Synthesis, in my view, changes nothing in the overall
conflict between synthetics and organics in the long term for a few reasons.

1. I can’t suspend my disbelief enough to believe that the Crucible somehow transformed ALL matter in the
galaxy in this synthetic/organic hybrid (if someone can explain it to me, I’m all ears).
2. The new hybrid life form will eventually create new (pure) synthetics (for labor purposes if nothing else). Honestly, can you see the new hybrid AIs performing the repetitive physical labor that the Geth were designed for?
3. These new synthetics will eventually and unavoidably, if the Star Brat is right, turn against its creators.

I suppose one could argue that the races of the galaxy have learned their lesson and that after the war no one would dare create pure synthetics that could evolve and reach a point in time when their intelligence would become greater than human (or hybrid) intelligence.

Well, never is a long time.

More later on Shepard’s point of view and why Synthesis doesn’t work for me as a player.













These sentiments are shared by many players here. Nicely put together, btw!

Here's my counter-theory about the catalysts motives:

1) The catalyst was tasked with finding a solution for the organics vs synthetics conflict and deemed the reaping to be valid, but not very elegant.
2) The catalyst seeks a better solution and comes up with the crucible plan to create a device that can have an impact in the whole galaxy at once (technical descriptions on how that works are mysteriously lost....)
3) The catalyst tries out the crucible many cycles ago but finds that synthesis doesn't work if used ("forced") on a population that is not "ready" (exact definition of ready has been mysteriously lost...)
4) The catalyst still likes his crucible idea but has to find the proper "cycle".
5) Shepard and the rest of this cycle manage to unite the species and build the crucible completely plus manage to dock it to the citadel (with a little help from the catalyst by not interfering a lot (see laser attack at shepard that misses, crucible production not being attacked, crucible not being shot out of the sky as soon as it shows up at earth).
6) The catalyst realized that this cycle is "ready" to tackle the AI threat themselves and even that it is fit for synthesis (if the player diligently raised the EMS).
7) Shepard is the spokesperson for the whole cycle and therefore the catalyst tells her/him that finishing the crucible made a new and better solution available.
8) The catalyst tells Shepard that he should pick the solution which fits best for this cycle, thinking that Shepard should know best for some mystical reason.

So, in my opinion, the catalyst is not "giving up", but is convinced, that this cycle can provide a solution to the organics vs synthetics issue which is better than reaping.

Reasoning for destroy: this cycle is unified and aware of how to deal with synthetics. It can handle itself. More reaping is not necessary once all current AI's are being eradicated.

Reasoning for control: Shepard has proven his or her strength of will and awesome leadership plus dedication to the well-being of all life (please note: very destructive renegades and lazy sheps don't have enough EMS!) to qualify as a valid candidate to oversee the galaxy's future. He or she becomes the new guardian with better insight into the organic way of thinking (empathy and other cool sh!t).

Reasoning for synthesis: well... synthesis is like the candyland of all good stuff, isn't it? Everbody is free of limits and potentionally omniscient and eternal, all AI's are friendly now... *slow clapping*... well, sorry, got a bit carried away here. The catalyst suspects that this solution is the best to put an end to the conflict forever because the technical singularity is no longer a threat: newly built machines will never be smarter than organics with their brain attached to google.

So, that's my point of viewing anyway.

#6607
Obadiah

Obadiah
  • Members
  • 5 773 messages
@Chashan
For the overlay, one would hope it is just a compressed dds file in some resource that could be replaced with just clear transparency. Well I can dream...

#6608
SimonTheFrog

SimonTheFrog
  • Members
  • 1 656 messages

Taboo-XX wrote...

They don't have the rights to distribute the Unreal Engine? Did they seriously just license it for use in the game?

Epic fail.


My guess is that they use a heavily modified Unreal Engine to deal with the cinematics etc.

The would have to create a costumer friendly interface for that Unreal Engine (devs usually work with really clumsy interfaces and tolerate bugs etc. because polishing of the tools is less important than creating content.) 
Also Epic would probably not like to have a custom UE being distributed.

Plus there is always the same issue: you get licences of many third party products that don't include redistribution for various reasons, especially if they are custom tailored for that dev. Not just UE.

#6609
DirtyPhoenix

DirtyPhoenix
  • Members
  • 3 938 messages

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Sorry, we won't be releasing official modding tools. Not all of the tools we used to make ME3 are owned by BioWare/EA so we do not have the rights to release them to the public. If fans want to mod the game thats fine (as long as done within legal guidelines and not-for-profit) but we won't be releasing any tools.



[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]


So much for that idea. :pinched:  Quote is here, if you want to check it out personally.


Well.. Mr.Fob did it without any of those toolsets (or did he?). All that is needed is an enterprising individual. Ther rest takes care of itself.

#6610
DirtyPhoenix

DirtyPhoenix
  • Members
  • 3 938 messages

ATiBotka wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

^A hundred likes for your sig quote :D


Thanks fellow assassin!^_^


If you frequent Ubi forums, add me up there; I go by the same name. Although I consider myself more of a templar than an assassin.:P

#6611
Reth Shepherd

Reth Shepherd
  • Members
  • 1 437 messages

pirate1802 wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Sorry, we won't be releasing official modding tools. Not all of the tools we used to make ME3 are owned by BioWare/EA so we do not have the rights to release them to the public. If fans want to mod the game thats fine (as long as done within legal guidelines and not-for-profit) but we won't be releasing any tools.


So much for that idea. :pinched:  Quote is here, if you want to check it out personally.


Well.. Mr.Fob did it without any of those toolsets (or did he?). All that is needed is an enterprising individual. Ther rest takes care of itself.


Yes, but the problem is that without the toolbox, it's impossible to do more than make changes to what's already available. Making entirely new content is apparently beyond the bounds of possibility. I suppose you're right, though; what we have to work with is apparently what we have to work with, and we might as well accept that and plow into it. I wonder if it would be possible to modify assets from other areas of the game to create new scenes?

#6612
Obadiah

Obadiah
  • Members
  • 5 773 messages
Some of the simpler changes look do-able. Check out the ME3 Explorer.

#6613
atheelogos

atheelogos
  • Members
  • 4 554 messages

Ieldra2 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...
As for the Low-Synthesis scenario, I thought up a scenario like this a while ago:

LEMS Synthesis: Everyone gets huskified (which is what many think happens now, but I digress), Shepard dies
MEMS Synthesis: There are some collateral damage, people getting brainwashed, mindwiped etc, but mostly it happens OK. Shepard's brain gets mindwiped too.
HEMS Synthesis: Everything goes off perfectly, Shepard lives but she is now interrogated by the council.

As for the HEMS scenario, I think the current political structure will not survive long past Synthesis. 

This would be a good outcome imo. The current Government is horrible and needs replacing.

#6614
The Geth Spectre

The Geth Spectre
  • Members
  • 155 messages

atheelogos wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...
As for the Low-Synthesis scenario, I thought up a scenario like this a while ago:

LEMS Synthesis: Everyone gets huskified (which is what many think happens now, but I digress), Shepard dies
MEMS Synthesis: There are some collateral damage, people getting brainwashed, mindwiped etc, but mostly it happens OK. Shepard's brain gets mindwiped too.
HEMS Synthesis: Everything goes off perfectly, Shepard lives but she is now interrogated by the council.

As for the HEMS scenario, I think the current political structure will not survive long past Synthesis. 

This would be a good outcome imo. The current Government is horrible and needs replacing.

with the reapers ruling the newly formed husks. I agree.

#6615
atheelogos

atheelogos
  • Members
  • 4 554 messages
........... that's not what I meant

#6616
Ieldra

Ieldra
  • Members
  • 25 190 messages

atheelogos wrote...
........... that's not what I meant

Neither did I, LOL. I think Synthesis will result in such great changes in society that the current system won't survive, which I see as desirable because the current system is corrupt. What replaces it is anyone's guess, and it will have to integrate the Reapers somehow, but it won't be Reaper rule. Control is the ending for that. Its more of a co-operation.

#6617
Ieldra

Ieldra
  • Members
  • 25 190 messages
I'd like to run an idea for an alternative scenario past those who are interested. The two main ideas:

(1) Synthesis doesn't change anyone but Shepard (or one or a few others, see below).
(2) In addition, it changes the mass relays into "Synthesis stations" which can Synthesize anyone who comes to visit. The FTL travel function of the mass relays is thereby lost.

Shepard becomes the herald of the new age, a positive example of Synthesis which no doubt will be followed by many people but of course not by all. Also, there are no "hybrid trees" or suchlike, and if and how Synthesized individuals' offspring will automatically be Synthesized remains open to speculation.

Synthesis does to individuals pretty much what I've described in the OP, including a (switchable!!!) ability for mental networking. The price paid for Synthesis is the permanent loss of the mass relays. A new method of long-range FTL travel has to be found. The Reapers are not as closely integrated into civilization as in the EC epilogue but there is peaceful coexistence (with a possible few exceptions, the Reapers are free now after all). They're available for contact but somewhat remote, similar to what Siduri's epilogue hints at.

The advantages of this scenario are obvious I think: not only is the ethical problem of changing everyone circumvented, there is actually a positive example people can follow or not. The roleplaying problem of not knowing exactly what will happen is circumvented since Shepard puts only himself on the line and doesn't have to fear to do something horrible to the galaxy. And the sci-fi-ness of the scenario is preserved since there is no magical sacrifice that powers an instant galaxy-wide change anymore.

The one problem I have is that I like the idea that Shepard passes into history with the ending of ME3. I would prefer him to live on in relative obscurity, and I'm not even that averse to his death. That would mean I would need to find a different "herald of the new age", or possible several of them. Who could it be? It's probably a case of wanting to eat my cake and have it, too, but perhaps there is a solution.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 17 janvier 2013 - 09:22 .


#6618
Obadiah

Obadiah
  • Members
  • 5 773 messages
Post-ending Shepard turning into some sort of prophet/preacher/learned-man is very appealing to me - this is what my post-Destroy Shep became.

It is an interesting idea, but how would people on the other end of the Mass Relays know what the Relay's new function was? Could some of them, in attempting to use the Relays, inadvertently undergo Synthesis? It has its issues but I like that people opt in to Synthesis, rather than have is forced on them.

#6619
phimseto

phimseto
  • Members
  • 976 messages
Synthesis, as it was presented, was the rapey-est thing that I have ever seen in a mainstream video game. Your individuality and those parts of you that make you unique as a person and as a race...we'll take that from you, kthxbai!

#6620
Ieldra

Ieldra
  • Members
  • 25 190 messages

phimseto wrote...
Synthesis, as it was presented, was the rapey-est thing that I have ever seen in a mainstream video game. Your individuality and those parts of you that make you unique as a person and as a race...we'll take that from you, kthxbai!

*sigh*
There is no indication that this happens, and every indication that it doesn't. Watch the epilogue. 

#6621
Ieldra

Ieldra
  • Members
  • 25 190 messages

Obadiah wrote...
Post-ending Shepard turning into some sort of prophet/preacher/learned-man is very appealing to me - this is what my post-Destroy Shep became.

It is an interesting idea, but how would people on the other end of the Mass Relays know what the Relay's new function was? Could some of them, in attempting to use the Relays, inadvertently undergo Synthesis? It has its issues but I like that people opt in to Synthesis, rather than have is forced on them.

Hmm....that's a problem that needs to be addressed. Perhaps it comes with a hologram of Shepard explaining things. And yes, that people can opt in or not is important. I like the outcome of Synthesis, but I've always felt Synthesis is tainted because it's forced on everyone. Not enough to disregard it altogether, but enough to feel much less comfortable with it that I would like.

#6622
Obadiah

Obadiah
  • Members
  • 5 773 messages
Yeah, like I said in that other thread, if Synthesis was a magic spell in a high fantasy realm that got people to work together, it would be (maybe) less of a problem. I think I get what the devs were trying to accomplish - sort of an "effect" where both sides "wake up" and think, "hey, why were we fighting again? Oh that's just silly. Here let me help you with that..."

However, because it is explained as a sci-fi biological change that is imposed, folks are rightly more concerned.

#6623
His Name was HYR!!

His Name was HYR!!
  • Members
  • 9 145 messages
 I was going to make a thread on this but decided against it, as it would involve too much feather-ruffling (even for one of my threads). So I'll just leave it here. I was looking at some ME2 stuff on youtube, and got to the post-Suicide Mission Legion dialogue. Three things, that Legion claimed to be everything that the geth aspire to.

"True Unity. Understanding. Transcendence."

It got me thinking of, not just Synthesis, but all options at the end of the game...

Refuse: Nothing.
Low-EMS Destroy: Nothing.
Low/Mid-EMS Control: Transcendence.
Mid/High-EMS Destroy: Unity.
High-EMS Control: Unity, Transcendence.
Synthesis: Unity, Understanding, Transcendence.

Looking no further than our particular cycle, I think Refuse implications pretty much go without saying. We cannot know about the next one either.

In "Vaporize" Destroy, unity weak to begin with (using EMS as an indicator), and what little of it exists is unlikely to last through the devastation and large problems ahead of them.

Mid/High Destroy's EC epilogue sends a hopeful message and seems to indicate that allied species work together and remain on good terms. Apart from that, recovery and rebuilding.

Low/Mid Control does some damage. Not as bad as Vaporize, but not much unity behind it either. Meanwhile, Shepard achieves a sort of transcendence, and the galaxy is shown to adapt with this.

High-EMS Control suffers no collateral damage and has a strong united galaxy. Shepard "transcends" and forms the Reaper collective into a new entity that coexists with the galactic community at large.

Then you get to Synthesis, and, well...


I always felt like the inspiration for this had to have come from subtle yet significant idea from within the narrative that somebody ultimately ran away with, for better or for worse, I could just never put my finger on it. Hearing that Legion quote again...

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 21 janvier 2013 - 09:59 .


#6624
Guest_john_sheparrd_*

Guest_john_sheparrd_*
  • Guests
synthesis is ****

#6625
His Name was HYR!!

His Name was HYR!!
  • Members
  • 9 145 messages
Four stars? Not bad, not bad...