9089 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I guess it's no use arguing against someone who refuses to see the flaws in his logic. I'll try once again for good measure: The Catalyst's claim would be disproven if and only if there was a significant period of coexistence between free-willed synthetics which have surpassed their creators and these creators themselves.We have no observational evidence of that. None at all.

Or if the synthetic creations are destroyed by their creators.

Yes, if they had surpassed their creators before. Destroying lower synthetics doesn't count, since the theory only needs one instance of "synthetics surpassing their creators" to start the feared scenario. Interesting cases are the Zha'til and the augmented geth if you made peace on Rannoch. Unfortunately, the Metacon War was interrupted before it could prove anything, and the augmented geth have just started.

BTW, I should mention that a scientific rendering of the Catalyst's hypothesis would not make an absolute claim. It would deal in probabilities, such as "The destruction of organic civilization under condtions X and Y is 99.99999% likely". The story just turns this into an "inevitable" because for all practical purposes, there is no difference.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 mars 2013 - 01:45 .

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I guess it's no use arguing against someone who refuses to see the flaws in his logic. I'll try once again for good measure: The Catalyst's claim would be disproven if and only if there was a significant period of coexistence between free-willed synthetics which have surpassed their creators and these creators themselves.We have no observational evidence of that. None at all.

Or if the synthetic creations are destroyed by their creators.

Yes, if they had surpassed their creators before. Destroying lower synthetics doesn't count. Interesting cases are the Zha'til and the augmented geth if you made peace on Rannoch. Unfortunately, the Metacon War was interrupted before it could prove anything, and the augmented geth have just started.

. Ah but it wasnt.

"We were turning the tide"  

[Ieldra]

Nothing would be proven without a period of peaceful co-existence or - as you said - the destruction of the rebelling synthetics by their creators. The Zha'til were not peaceful and they weren't destroyed by the organic civiizations of the galaxy = no proof.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 mars 2013 - 01:50 .

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nothing would be proven without a period of peaceful co-existence or - as you said - the destruction of the rebelling synthetics by their creators. The Zha'til were not peaceful and they weren't destroyed by the organic civiizations of the galaxy = no proof.

. I take it you aren't willing to accept the inevitability of a Prothean victory as evidence.

[Ieldra]

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nothing would be proven without a period of peaceful co-existence or - as you said - the destruction of the rebelling synthetics by their creators. The Zha'til were not peaceful and they weren't destroyed by the organic civiizations of the galaxy = no proof.

. I take it you aren't willing to accept the inevitability of a Prothean victory as evidence.

Only if you could provide hard evidence that it actually would've been inevitable without Reaper interference.

BTW, I would rather go back to discussing the Lovecraftian themes in the ending. Shaigunjoe has made an interesting post about that a long time ago which I linked to in the OP, and quoted a part of IIRC.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 mars 2013 - 03:06 .

[Steelcan]

Fine. I'll leave it

[Shaigunjoe]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nothing would be proven without a period of peaceful co-existence or - as you said - the destruction of the rebelling synthetics by their creators. The Zha'til were not peaceful and they weren't destroyed by the organic civiizations of the galaxy = no proof.

. I take it you aren't willing to accept the inevitability of a Prothean victory as evidence.

Only if you could provide hard evidence that it actually would've been inevitable without Reaper interference.

BTW, I would rather go back to discussing the Lovecraftian themes in the ending. Shaigunjoe has made an interesting post about that a long time ago which I linked to in the OP, and quoted a part of IIRC.

I rarely frequent the bsn anymore (mainly to avoid spoilers as I am terrible when it comes to keeping up with DLC)  What are the odds that when I do an old post of mine is brought up (btw, I am very happy to see this thread going strong almost a year later).

Anyway, yes, lets talk about Lovecraft!  The more I think about it, the more I feel that the conversation with the kid is almost a conversation with Lovecraft himself.  The whole create murdering synthetics to prevent others from making murdering synthetics reminds me of Lovecrafts own inspiration for creating his unimaginable horrors.  In addition to similiar fears he and the kid shared.

I think that Mac Walters thought that, on the whole, the reapers where uninteresting as far as sci fi topics are concerned.  It was a view that I agreed with, as I thought that across the whole trilogy, the Reapers yielded the most uninteresting plot points, the sub plots were far and away stronger stories.  I felt the entire ME3 reaper arc kind of alluded to how bland the reapers are as a villain, with the whole find crucible plans, build the crucible, etc.  Really dull stuff, the over reliance on tried and true tropes struck me as too on the nose to be done completly by accident.  Thats one thing I think the ending was trying to say, it allows you on some level to agree with Lovecraft by shunning technology (he's solution to the problem), going mad (what he thought tech would bring about) or saying screw you lovecraft! And embrace the brave new world.

[Absaroka]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nothing would be proven without a period of peaceful co-existence or - as you said - the destruction of the rebelling synthetics by their creators. The Zha'til were not peaceful and they weren't destroyed by the organic civiizations of the galaxy = no proof.

. I take it you aren't willing to accept the inevitability of a Prothean victory as evidence.

Only if you could provide hard evidence that it actually would've been inevitable without Reaper interference.

BTW, I would rather go back to discussing the Lovecraftian themes in the ending. Shaigunjoe has made an interesting post about that a long time ago which I linked to in the OP, and quoted a part of IIRC.

I rarely frequent the bsn anymore (mainly to avoid spoilers as I am terrible when it comes to keeping up with DLC)  What are the odds that when I do an old post of mine is brought up (btw, I am very happy to see this thread going strong almost a year later).

Anyway, yes, lets talk about Lovecraft!  The more I think about it, the more I feel that the conversation with the kid is almost a conversation with Lovecraft himself.  The whole create murdering synthetics to prevent others from making murdering synthetics reminds me of Lovecrafts own inspiration for creating his unimaginable horrors.  In addition to similiar fears he and the kid shared.

I think that Mac Walters thought that, on the whole, the reapers where uninteresting as far as sci fi topics are concerned.  It was a view that I agreed with, as I thought that across the whole trilogy, the Reapers yielded the most uninteresting plot points, the sub plots were far and away stronger stories.  I felt the entire ME3 reaper arc kind of alluded to how bland the reapers are as a villain, with the whole find crucible plans, build the crucible, etc.  Really dull stuff, the over reliance on tried and true tropes struck me as too on the nose to be done completly by accident.  Thats one thing I think the ending was trying to say, it allows you on some level to agree with Lovecraft by shunning technology (he's solution to the problem), going mad (what he thought tech would bring about) or saying screw you lovecraft! And embrace the brave new world.

If the Catalyst represents Lovecraft, how is choosing Synthesis saying "screw you" when its the AI's preferred choice?  For that matter, Destroy is the choice it most negatively portrays and the choice that, in how it is presented, the Catalyst seems to be trying to dissuade you from choosing. 

Frankly, as far as I am concerned the Reapers lost any Lovecraftian overtones they had the second the Catalyst was revealed to be the one pulling the strings.

[Ieldra]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nothing would be proven without a period of peaceful co-existence or - as you said - the destruction of the rebelling synthetics by their creators. The Zha'til were not peaceful and they weren't destroyed by the organic civiizations of the galaxy = no proof.

. I take it you aren't willing to accept the inevitability of a Prothean victory as evidence.

Only if you could provide hard evidence that it actually would've been inevitable without Reaper interference.

BTW, I would rather go back to discussing the Lovecraftian themes in the ending. Shaigunjoe has made an interesting post about that a long time ago which I linked to in the OP, and quoted a part of IIRC.

I rarely frequent the bsn anymore (mainly to avoid spoilers as I am terrible when it comes to keeping up with DLC)  What are the odds that when I do an old post of mine is brought up (btw, I am very happy to see this thread going strong almost a year later).

LOL, didn't expect you to put in an appearance just as I was talking about your old post.

Anyway, yes, lets talk about Lovecraft!  The more I think about it, the more I feel that the conversation with the kid is almost a conversation with Lovecraft himself.  The whole create murdering synthetics to prevent others from making murdering synthetics reminds me of Lovecrafts own inspiration for creating his unimaginable horrors.  In addition to similiar fears he and the kid shared.

It's certainly a logic as nonhuman as it comes. It's something I can appreciate as "alien alien". Not so sure about talking with Lovecraft himself - it appears to me he'd have been a Destroyer, which the Catalyst doesn't appear to favor. 

I think that Mac Walters thought that, on the whole, the reapers where uninteresting as far as sci fi topics are concerned.  It was a view that I agreed with, as I thought that across the whole trilogy, the Reapers yielded the most uninteresting plot points, the sub plots were far and away stronger stories.  I felt the entire ME3 reaper arc kind of alluded to how bland the reapers are as a villain, with the whole find crucible plans, build the crucible, etc.  Really dull stuff, the over reliance on tried and true tropes struck me as too on the nose to be done completly by accident.  Thats one thing I think the ending was trying to say, it allows you on some level to agree with Lovecraft by shunning technology (he's solution to the problem), going mad (what he thought tech would bring about) or saying screw you lovecraft! And embrace the brave new world.

I agree. The interesting part about the Reapers was never their role in the plot. They were interesting as a concept, and the final choice is interesting because it lets you define your stance towards what they represent - do you let the "other" in, which you are called on to do in order to survive in a bigger universe, do you attempt to deal with it while trying to stay what you are, or do you reject it altogether. The organic/synthetic problem is IMO only the surface problem. I think the presentation of the Synthesis ending in the EC is a dead giveaway in that regard. They could've made the visual effects less uncomfortable, but they didn't.

It's of course not the only thematic line explored, but it's a significant one.

[ghost9191]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nothing would be proven without a period of peaceful co-existence or - as you said - the destruction of the rebelling synthetics by their creators. The Zha'til were not peaceful and they weren't destroyed by the organic civiizations of the galaxy = no proof.

. I take it you aren't willing to accept the inevitability of a Prothean victory as evidence.

Only if you could provide hard evidence that it actually would've been inevitable without Reaper interference.

BTW, I would rather go back to discussing the Lovecraftian themes in the ending. Shaigunjoe has made an interesting post about that a long time ago which I linked to in the OP, and quoted a part of IIRC.

I rarely frequent the bsn anymore (mainly to avoid spoilers as I am terrible when it comes to keeping up with DLC)  What are the odds that when I do an old post of mine is brought up (btw, I am very happy to see this thread going strong almost a year later).

Anyway, yes, lets talk about Lovecraft!  The more I think about it, the more I feel that the conversation with the kid is almost a conversation with Lovecraft himself.  The whole create murdering synthetics to prevent others from making murdering synthetics reminds me of Lovecrafts own inspiration for creating his unimaginable horrors.  In addition to similiar fears he and the kid shared.

I think that Mac Walters thought that, on the whole, the reapers where uninteresting as far as sci fi topics are concerned.  It was a view that I agreed with, as I thought that across the whole trilogy, the Reapers yielded the most uninteresting plot points, the sub plots were far and away stronger stories.  I felt the entire ME3 reaper arc kind of alluded to how bland the reapers are as a villain, with the whole find crucible plans, build the crucible, etc.  Really dull stuff, the over reliance on tried and true tropes struck me as too on the nose to be done completly by accident.  Thats one thing I think the ending was trying to say, it allows you on some level to agree with Lovecraft by shunning technology (he's solution to the problem), going mad (what he thought tech would bring about) or saying screw you lovecraft! And embrace the brave new world.

1) to be fair i think it is the same ppl coming and making this thread strong. bastards if you ask me , all of them

2) i do not believe synthesis is the best way to say screw you to catalyst ( lovecraft ) , that is more of saying hell yeah . just saying. Note : might not be the reason you pick it . but it is the one that agrees most with the catalyst.

3) i don't think destroy shunns tech just the reapers

4) i don't know where i was going with this but yeah .  and this assumes we are talking of the same 'lovecraft'

just random thoughts. not attacking anyone. well maybe Ieldra, but that is because i am sick of being ignored:bandit:

Modifié par ghost9191, 18 mars 2013 - 07:31 .

[Steelcan]

3) i don't think destroy shunns tech just the reapers

that's not a welcome belief on this thread

Modifié par Steelcan, 18 mars 2013 - 07:44 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

3) i don't think destroy shunns tech just the reapers

that's not a welcome belief on this thread

You're a luddite if you pick destroy 

[Bill Casey]

Steelcan wrote...

3) i don't think destroy shunns tech just the reapers

that's not a welcome belief on this thread

From: Stephen Hackett

----------------Forwarded Message-----------------
From: Kahlee Sanders
Subject: Thank You
To: Steven Hackett

Hi, Commander:

I didn't have time to thank you properly after you got us out of the academy, and Admiral Hackett agreed to send this your way.

While my students are out on duty, I'm doing what I can to help with the Crucible. It's an amazing project, more advanced than anything I've ever seen before.  Some of my more tech-minded kids are staying back to help out too, and watching them work... It's the future, Commander. This project will inform human progress for generations.

And they'll have you to thank for it.

All my best,
Kahlee Sanders.

So yeah...
We'll advance without the Reapers, thanks...

[Shaigunjoe]

Absaroka wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nothing would be proven without a period of peaceful co-existence or - as you said - the destruction of the rebelling synthetics by their creators. The Zha'til were not peaceful and they weren't destroyed by the organic civiizations of the galaxy = no proof.

. I take it you aren't willing to accept the inevitability of a Prothean victory as evidence.

Only if you could provide hard evidence that it actually would've been inevitable without Reaper interference.

BTW, I would rather go back to discussing the Lovecraftian themes in the ending. Shaigunjoe has made an interesting post about that a long time ago which I linked to in the OP, and quoted a part of IIRC.

I rarely frequent the bsn anymore (mainly to avoid spoilers as I am terrible when it comes to keeping up with DLC)  What are the odds that when I do an old post of mine is brought up (btw, I am very happy to see this thread going strong almost a year later).

Anyway, yes, lets talk about Lovecraft!  The more I think about it, the more I feel that the conversation with the kid is almost a conversation with Lovecraft himself.  The whole create murdering synthetics to prevent others from making murdering synthetics reminds me of Lovecrafts own inspiration for creating his unimaginable horrors.  In addition to similiar fears he and the kid shared.

I think that Mac Walters thought that, on the whole, the reapers where uninteresting as far as sci fi topics are concerned.  It was a view that I agreed with, as I thought that across the whole trilogy, the Reapers yielded the most uninteresting plot points, the sub plots were far and away stronger stories.  I felt the entire ME3 reaper arc kind of alluded to how bland the reapers are as a villain, with the whole find crucible plans, build the crucible, etc.  Really dull stuff, the over reliance on tried and true tropes struck me as too on the nose to be done completly by accident.  Thats one thing I think the ending was trying to say, it allows you on some level to agree with Lovecraft by shunning technology (he's solution to the problem), going mad (what he thought tech would bring about) or saying screw you lovecraft! And embrace the brave new world.

If the Catalyst represents Lovecraft, how is choosing Synthesis saying "screw you" when its the AI's preferred choice?  For that matter, Destroy is the choice it most negatively portrays and the choice that, in how it is presented, the Catalyst seems to be trying to dissuade you from choosing. 

Frankly, as far as I am concerned the Reapers lost any Lovecraftian overtones they had the second the Catalyst was revealed to be the one pulling the strings.

Thats why I said almost!  There are obviously some differences, but the fears of Lovecraft and the fears of the catalyst that justify the creation of the reapers are pretty similiar.  Though the catalyst has the benefit of having the crucible change him, something Lovecraft never got.

I thought the catalyst solidified the reapers as lovecraftian horrors, as its pretty much what you would see if you pulled the curtain off of lovecraftian horrors.

@Ieldra
The catalyst was a destroyer up until the crucible, he just destroyed organics instead of synthetics.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 18 mars 2013 - 08:19 .

[Absaroka]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Absaroka wrote...

If the Catalyst represents Lovecraft, how is choosing Synthesis saying "screw you" when its the AI's preferred choice?  For that matter, Destroy is the choice it most negatively portrays and the choice that, in how it is presented, the Catalyst seems to be trying to dissuade you from choosing. 

Frankly, as far as I am concerned the Reapers lost any Lovecraftian overtones they had the second the Catalyst was revealed to be the one pulling the strings.

Thats why I said almost!  There are obviously some differences, but the fears of Lovecraft and the fears of the catalyst that justify the creation of the reapers are pretty similiar.  Though the catalyst has the benefit of having the crucible change him, something Lovecraft never got.

I thought the catalyst solidified the reapers as lovecraftian horrors, as its pretty much what you would see if you pulled the curtain off of lovecraftian horrors.

@Ieldra
The catalyst was a destroyer up until the crucible, he just destroyed organics instead of synthetics.

If that's the case, then wouldn't that solidify the interpretations some have of the Catalyst's methods as self-fulfilling prophecy?  Lovecraft feared the unknown and manifested them as utterly alien entities in his writings.  The Catalyst was created to solve the problem of the conflict between organics and synthetics and a hypothetical an all-powerful artifical lifeform threatening the galaxy and its solution was to unleash all-powerful killing machines to routinely engage in campaigns of mass destruction whose very methods even promote conflict between synthetics and organics. 

In that case, its solution is virtually identical to the supposed problem and don't come off so much as unknowable but failing ideologically.

[CosmicGnosis]

I think Lovecraft's stories suggest that there is some ultimate purpose to everything, but humanity can never know what it is, and even if they could discover it, they would be driven mad by it. I guess the purpose of the Catalyst and the Reapers is something like that?

[Wayning_Star]

it's really simply about synthetic sentience and what organic sentience decides what to do about it's creations. Most tend to hide from it... like Leviathan.

[Absaroka]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

I think Lovecraft's stories suggest that there is some ultimate purpose to everything, but humanity can never know what it is, and even if they could discover it, they would be driven mad by it. I guess the purpose of the Catalyst and the Reapers is something like that?

Except the Catalyst plainly states what its purpose is.  The only thing maddening about that purpose is that the methodology is not only ultimately insufficent but it can also be argued that it contributes to the problem.

The point in the Trilogy where the Reapers are closest to Lovecraft was when you talk with Sovereign in the first game but in hindsight the conversation just comes off as hot air more than anything now.

[Shaigunjoe]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

I think Lovecraft's stories suggest that there is some ultimate purpose to everything, but humanity can never know what it is, and even if they could discover it, they would be driven mad by it. I guess the purpose of the Catalyst and the Reapers is something like that?

Something like that, they would go mad, or live in self imposed ignorance.   I'll go ahead and post the quote I did so long ago, it is from the opening of Call of Cthulu:

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of
ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant
that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own
direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing
together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of
reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go
mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and
safety of a new dark age.

The purpose of the catalyst and the reapers is to prevent organics from voyaging far, which was inline with what Lovecraft thought of mankind.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 18 mars 2013 - 09:14 .

[Wayning_Star]

"Now all my tales are based on the fundamental premise that common human laws and interests and emotions have no validity or significance in the vast cosmos-at-large."
— H.P. Lovecraft

primer: http://tvtropes.org/...smicHorrorStory

Now mother nature is a lovecraftian night mare..

[Obadiah]

Steelcan wrote...

3) i don't think destroy shunns tech just the reapers

that's not a welcome belief on this thread

When did that become "unwelcome" in this thread?

[CosmicGnosis]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

I think Lovecraft's stories suggest that there is some ultimate purpose to everything, but humanity can never know what it is, and even if they could discover it, they would be driven mad by it. I guess the purpose of the Catalyst and the Reapers is something like that?

Something like that, they would go mad, or live in self imposed ignorance.   I'll go ahead and post the quote I did so long ago, it is from the opening of Call of Cthulu:

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of
ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant
that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own
direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing
together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of
reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go
mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and
safety of a new dark age.

The purpose of the catalyst and the reapers is to prevent organics from voyaging far, which was inline with what Lovecraft thought of mankind.

That's an amazing quote. Not only does it fit rather well with the "spirit" of the ending choices, it's also a quote that I vehemently disagree with.

Edit: I think you should make a thread about this quote. Seriously, the Illusive Man makes statements that literally oppose Lovecraft's thinking, so there is some nice Mass Effect content that you can use in the thread.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 18 mars 2013 - 09:45 .

[Yestare7]

Here is my opinion on Synthesis: 


imagine living your life surrounded by reapers... knowing exactly what they are and how they were made.. imagine seeing a husk walking down the street to buy milk because he forgot that week to go shopping.. thats control and synthesis .. it would be like living in a horror movie twisted with walt disney magic... and that just creeps me out...

This is synthesis:






An insane idea made 50 million years ago is STILL insane:


(Child: They became the first true Reaper. They did not approve, but it was the only solution.)



The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth. - Saren 



Control = Collaboration
Synthesis = Surrender
Destroy = Defiance

Modifié par Yestare7, 18 mars 2013 - 10:27 .

[ruggly]

Dendio1 wrote...

ruggly wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...
Its pretty obvious that destroy resonants with the statement of retreating into a dark age, shunning knowledge and the revelations that come along with it.

I...don't see it like that at all. 

Rather than accepting the new reality synthesis offers or attempting to control the reapers to your will, you turn your back on both the representation of the unknown and of madness.

Destroy all synthetics means you erase the "forbidden knowledge" at your fingertips and usher in a literal and figurative dark age where all synthetic tech is no more. Back to simpler "safe" times

Synthesis requires courage to venture out in to the unknown.

snip out control bit

I do not reject the idea of embracing the unkown, nor am I putting the galaxy into a dark age in high EMS destroy.  Everything can be rebuilt.  I am of the mind that synthesis is not inherintly bad, but find it is very unethical to force it upon the entire galaxy.  In two of my non-MEHEM playthroughs, Shepard has survived.  She knows the truth.  She can push for synthetic rights, she can push for synthesis, she can push for change.  I'm just going about this in a way without Reaper influence.  You make it seem like things won't change in destroy, but after a war like that, how can things ever be the same?

We all have our interpretations of each endings, and I don't agree with yours of destroy.

[Absaroka]

ruggly wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

ruggly wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...
Its pretty obvious that destroy resonants with the statement of retreating into a dark age, shunning knowledge and the revelations that come along with it.

I...don't see it like that at all. 

Rather than accepting the new reality synthesis offers or attempting to control the reapers to your will, you turn your back on both the representation of the unknown and of madness.

Destroy all synthetics means you erase the "forbidden knowledge" at your fingertips and usher in a literal and figurative dark age where all synthetic tech is no more. Back to simpler "safe" times

Synthesis requires courage to venture out in to the unknown.

snip out control bit

I do not reject the idea of embracing the unkown, nor am I putting the galaxy into a dark age in high EMS destroy.  Everything can be rebuilt.  I am of the mind that synthesis is not inherintly bad, but find it is very unethical to force it upon the entire galaxy.  In two of my non-MEHEM playthroughs, Shepard has survived.  She knows the truth.  She can push for synthetic rights, she can push for synthesis, she can push for change.  I'm just going about this in a way without Reaper influence.  You make it seem like things won't change in destroy, but after a war like that, how can things ever be the same?

We all have our interpretations of each endings, and I don't agree with yours of destroy.

Destroy certainly isn't a dark age with EC, and pre-EC Synthesis was hardly any better with its ridiculously ham-fisted Adam and Eve analogy in regards to letting galactic civilization getting a fresh start.