9089 réponses à ce sujet

[Wayning_Star]

Yestare7 wrote...

Sometimes I read here for a few minutes, good for the laugh muscles.

sometimes , sarcasm can be seen in print tho.. must be care full of that when trolling..

[Auld Wulf]

Yestare7 wrote...

Sometimes I read here for a few minutes, good for the laugh muscles.

That's ... kind of pathetic and really sad, when you think about it.

Sort of like a religious nut going to a gay convention and laughing at all the "wrong" people.

You have my pity.

[Wayning_Star]

well, Auld Wulf, it would seem that many actually do understand that synthesis is the preferred(by bioware), er canon choice for the ME3 fini.. but because of that, they reject it on those grounds alone.

Many just wish to 'win' on their own terms' of/and conditions. Too bad about Leviathan tho..lol (not like they're all hidden'n stuff..)

[Seival]

What we wish and what we can are not always the same things. Tough choices were given, and we had to choose.

[Wayning_Star]

Seival wrote...

What we wish and what we can are not always the same things. Tough choices were given, and we had to choose.

actually, I didn't see much choice...

[Obadiah]

I just got this line from the Illusive Man on Mars:

We can dominate them, use their power, harness their very essence to bring humanity to the very apex of evolution.

For cryin' out loud, somebody really needed to go through this script and change the wording to avoid these weird parallels between the TIM's goals and Synthesis.

Modifié par Obadiah, 31 mars 2013 - 04:20 .

[Ieldra]

TheConstantOne wrote...
I've been thinking about the failed synthesis attempts that the Catalyst says it attempted before in the past. The Catalyst claims that synthesis failed because the organics were not ready and that it couldn't be forced.

I've come to believe that there is a better way to interpret this comment other than "the organics had to choose it." It could instead relate to genetic variability. Humans in the MEU are said to have a very all inclusive set of genes: lots of statistical variability. I'm thinking when the Catalyst says that Shepard "is ready", he means that the human genetic sequence has evolved to the point where it could be utilized to bring about the synthesis of life. Humans' genetic variability could be used as the blueprint to create nanites which are adaptable and able to coexist with any species' biology.

The thing is, genetic diversity doesn't change much over time. Also, this hypothesis presupposes that evolution has a preferred direction, which it doesn't. I guess given the ME-typical epic fail in biology, it's as good a hypothesis as any other, but it doesn't have anything specific to go for it.

Also, Synthesis affects all intelligent organic species at least. The human genetic template shouldn't have any special significance. I'm afraid your hypothesis fails.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 31 mars 2013 - 04:18 .

[Steelcan]

Obadiah wrote...

I just got this line from the Illusive Man on Mars:

We can dominate them, user their power, harness their very essence to bring humanity to the very apex of evolution.

For cryin' out loud, somebody really needed to go through this script and change the wording to avoid these weird parallels between the TIM's goals and Synthesis.

. While they are at can they throw in some viable foreshadowing for Control and Synthesis?

Modifié par Steelcan, 31 mars 2013 - 04:22 .

[Ieldra]

Obadiah wrote...
I just got this line from the Illusive Man on Mars:

We can dominate them, user their power, harness their very essence to bring humanity to the very apex of evolution.

For cryin' out loud, somebody really needed to go through this script and change the wording to avoid these weird parallels between the TIM's goals and Synthesis.

I'd say someone needed to go through the script and remove all the biological nonsense - all talk of "essences" and the apex of evolution, among other things.

[Wayning_Star]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Obadiah wrote...
I just got this line from the Illusive Man on Mars:

We can dominate them, user their power, harness their very essence to bring humanity to the very apex of evolution.

For cryin' out loud, somebody really needed to go through this script and change the wording to avoid these weird parallels between the TIM's goals and Synthesis.

I'd say someone needed to go through the script and remove all the biological nonsense - all talk of "essences" and the apex of evolution, among other things.

Just cause TIM is opinionated, doesn't mean everyone else is/has to be.  The 'essence' is merely a pointer, simplistic term for "who are you?". If we look at it from a computers' pov, that would only mean programming. Being organic has apparent benefits as well as many disadvantages. The gist of it all, to me anyways, is the comparison and the 'needs basis' for either. IN the MEU, build completely by machine(catalyst), it seems ok, to state as "apex", as evolution of organics creates the synthetic life forms.

The really weird part no one seems to discuss is how those life forms became. Only the Leviathan actually "created" an intelligence, the closest thing to 'being', but  still, it had to become a catalyst to be considered a separate life form. Edi, Geth seems to just 'spring forth' without design for that. They became self aware, or Life Forms themselves.

All we have to do is go back to when organic intellect 'began' to figure out what 'apex evolution' might designate?

(apparently, synthesis is linked to that?)

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 31 mars 2013 - 04:37 .

[PinkToolTheater]

So I am at a point where I think I might go synthesis with my full paragon full DLC sentinel. Synthesis has grown on me recently bu there are a couple of things that still bug me.

1. When the reapers start flying off nobody is really cheering like they are in destroy and control. It's like they are comfortable numb and don't care that it is over. There's not Asari on Thessia scene (unless I am wrong) for some reason.

2. Jacob and Brynn don't seem to be too happy compared to other endings. A women with them looks like she's depressed or something.

3. A green Liara looks dumb.

Any of you synthesis supporters that can address my concerns?

[Obadiah]

"Apex of evolution", "final evolution", I'm starting to see the message in the endings that the writers don't seem to want to discuss. Hopefully, it just poor word choice though, and they didn't quite understand the thematic hornet's nest they were playing with.

Modifié par Obadiah, 31 mars 2013 - 05:13 .

[Taboo]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Yestare7 wrote...

Sometimes I read here for a few minutes, good for the laugh muscles.

That's ... kind of pathetic and really sad, when you think about it.

Sort of like a religious nut going to a gay convention and laughing at all the "wrong" people.

You have my pity.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Obadiah wrote...

"Apex of evolution", "final evolution", I'm starting to see the message in the endings that the writers don't seem to want to discuss. Hopefully, it just poor word choice though, and they didn't quite understand the thematic hornet's nest they were playing with.

Well, what can you expect, when the ending is written by one writer who shuts the door on peer review?

While everyone else was writing a plot centered around destroying the Reapers, this one guy decides LOLNO.

Mac was trying to pull off some sort of "epic" plot twist, but did so at the expense of the narrative's coherence. They all paid the price for that one. Doesn't bother me too much, because I see Mass Effect for what it is: a game, not a shining example of literary work. *edit* Still, I get why it bothers other people. *edit*

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 31 mars 2013 - 05:51 .

[Bill Casey]

Obadiah wrote...

I just got this line from the Illusive Man on Mars:

We can dominate them, use their power, harness their very essence to bring humanity to the very apex of evolution.

For cryin' out loud, somebody really needed to go through this script and change the wording to avoid these weird parallels between the TIM's goals and Synthesis.

I know, right?


Kai Leng: We evolve or we die, those are the options.

Adults, 60% sent to integration
Children, 85% sent to integration

Loudspeaker: Sanctuary is building a better tomorrow

Omega sign
"Victory for Peace"
"Building a Better Universe"
"Don't Let Them Win"

Personal Logs
A. Masters
Integration successful. Suicide on capture orders confirmed. Cerberus is my friend. Obey. Protect humanity. At any cost.

Illusive Man: No. This is the way humanity must evolve.

Shepard: You've turned your people into monsters
Illusive Man: Hardly, they're being improved.

Illusive Man: No. There's a better way forward. Humanity can be so much more...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 31 mars 2013 - 05:54 .

[Bill Casey]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Well, what can you expect, when the ending is written by one writer who shuts the door on peer review?

While everyone else was writing a plot centered around destroying the Reapers, this one guy decides LOLNO.

Mac was trying to pull off some sort of "epic" plot twist, but did so at the expense of the narrative's coherence. They all paid the price for that one. Doesn't bother me too much, because I see Mass Effect for what it is: a game, not a shining example of literary work. *edit* Still, I get why it bothers other people. *edit*

Mac Walters wrote the Illusive Man's scenes...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 31 mars 2013 - 05:58 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

Exactly, Bill, that's why "the Illusive Man was right after all" when the story ends.



*My internet has slowed to a damn crawl.

[Ieldra]

PinkToolTheater wrote...
So I am at a point where I think I might go synthesis with my full paragon full DLC sentinel. Synthesis has grown on me recently bu there are a couple of things that still bug me.

1. When the reapers start flying off nobody is really cheering like they are in destroy and control. It's like they are comfortable numb and don't care that it is over. There's not Asari on Thessia scene (unless I am wrong) for some reason.

I think people are just confused about what just happened. I certainly would be if those weird green effects appeared all about me all of a sudden, even if it's temporary. 

2. Jacob and Brynn don't seem to be too happy compared to other endings. A women with them looks like she's depressed or something.

The woman has probably lost someone. IMO the idea is that post-Synthesis as well as post-Destroy the relays are still damaged and aren't repaired fast as in Control, so that some people might end up separated from their loved ones. So you get this scene in Synthesis and Destroy but not in Control.

3. A green Liara looks dumb.

I put that down to shoddy artwork. Basically, several characters look ugly in the Synthesis slides because the green effect has been applied as an overlay to the original pictures instead of created as part of them. I take the Normandy scene as a measuring stick. That's how people *really* look - all you see is a subtle change in the eyes. The other stuff is just an artistic representation of mostly invisible changes.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 31 mars 2013 - 06:26 .

[Shaigunjoe]

Taboo-XX wrote...
*snip*

Ahahahaha, perfect!

[Wayning_Star]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
*snip*

Ahahahaha, perfect!

taboo is really the Cheshire catalyst..lol

[TheConstantOne]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@TheConstantOne

Interesting theory. It appeals to me because it's supported by the evidence, which are the best kinds of theories. (We don't get too many of those, sadly.)

In ME2, the Collectors infected a portion of Omega with a virus that wasn't meant to kill, but it was an experiment in genetic variability. Mordin talks about it. Humans already had that genetic variability, so they didn't need to be experimented on. However, the other species were said to not possess such a broad degree of genetic mutation, having a more ordered structure. As such, the Collectors were trying to bring about genetic variation in non-human species, which might bring them closer to the Synthesis goal.

In the ending of ME3, it's stated that the Crucible has changed the Catalyst. It's said that one of the species of Crucible designers were really smart, possibly even Leviathan levels of smart, and the evidence indicates that they were aware of all the factors involved. They knew about the Catalyst, and they knew how to manipulate him. Apparently the Crucible gives the Catalyst the last few pieces of the puzzle. Organics are ready because, technically, the organic designers of the Crucible figured out the last parts of the puzzle for him.

Really interesting. I like it.

I have wondered about who the Crucible designers were (it's a rather big mystery, another ME game will deal with them maybe...who knows?)  My thoughts really revolved around trying to integrate what the Collectors were up to with genetic experiments and the whole forced statements made by the Catalyst.  After all, if the Intelligence did indeed mean the decision couldn't be chosen for all organic life...well, Shepard proceeding to make such a choice moments later doesn't make much sense.

Ieldra2 wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
I've been thinking about the failed synthesis attempts that the Catalyst says it attempted before in the past. The Catalyst claims that synthesis failed because the organics were not ready and that it couldn't be forced.

I've come to believe that there is a better way to interpret this comment other than "the organics had to choose it." It could instead relate to genetic variability. Humans in the MEU are said to have a very all inclusive set of genes: lots of statistical variability. I'm thinking when the Catalyst says that Shepard "is ready", he means that the human genetic sequence has evolved to the point where it could be utilized to bring about the synthesis of life. Humans' genetic variability could be used as the blueprint to create nanites which are adaptable and able to coexist with any species' biology.

The thing is, genetic diversity doesn't change much over time. Also, this hypothesis presupposes that evolution has a preferred direction, which it doesn't. I guess given the ME-typical epic fail in biology, it's as good a hypothesis as any other, but it doesn't have anything specific to go for it.

Also, Synthesis affects all intelligent organic species at least. The human genetic template shouldn't have any special significance. I'm afraid your hypothesis fails.

Ielddra, I completely agree with your genetic diversity and evolution statements.  All of our real world Earth science to date suggests that this is true.  But ME2 does mention that human's have a "larger genetic variational curve" than other species quite frequently.  The Collectors seem interested in capturing this aspect of humanity. How using the genetic variability of humans creates nanites that are variational enough to adapt and function with all organic life, I have no idea.  But this, to me, seems a reasonable enough explanation until a better explanation than "Shepard's essence" is suggested 

I've read some of the posts here...I know you dislike the "essence" comments as much as I do, Ieldra haha

[Wayning_Star]

I wonder? Does 'intellect/intelligence' "have to do" with evolution and the larger genetic variation curve thingy? (that smacks of 'spontaneous' vocabulation/new speak.)

[Harorrd]

I wonder? Does 'intellect/intelligence' "have to do" with evolution and the larger genetic variation curve thingy? (that smacks of 'spontaneous' vocabulation/new speak.)

[Obadiah]

I think increased intelligence comes out of evolutions if the beings who gain intelligence are able to continue to survive, procreate, and pass on their intelligence.

I'm just guessing that is usually the way things work out as species try to survive natural environmental changes (reduction in accustomed habitat) or cataclysms. Then again, beings that are just highly robust can survive those as well.

[Ieldra]

Obadiah wrote...
I think increased intelligence comes out of evolutions if the beings who gain intelligence are able to continue to survive, procreate, and pass on their intelligence.

I'm just guessing that is usually the way things work out as species try to survive natural environmental changes (reduction in accustomed habitat) or cataclysms. Then again, beings that are just highly robust can survive those as well.

Generally, it is difficult to see how intelligence on the human level can be adaptive and be selected for. There are various models for the evolution of human intelligence, but none of them has conclusive evidence to speak for it.

@TheConstantOne:
I agree that since the "essence" is complete bullsh*t, we need a hypothesis that works, but so far, I prefer my own hypothesis that the results of Synthesis, within the limits given by the Catalyst's exposition, will follow conceptions in Shepard's mind. That's the only Shepard-related source where meaningful information for the Crucible to work with could come from.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 avril 2013 - 08:17 .