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[Veneke]

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
That synthesis is pointless then. Why do we have to impose something on everyone that doesn't solve the problem the star child brings up?

 
Remember that Synthesis is meant to be the ultimate solution to synthetics destroying organics utterly. You'll still have warfare, you just won't have the destruction of all organic life.

If you think that then you don't understand the reason for the conflict with orgaincs and synthetics.
Take a look ateverything on rennock and why the geth rebelion happen and you'll understand that if organic fight with themselves after synthesis then theproblem is not solved.

You understand, of course, that there will be no more pure organics after Synthesis, and no more pure synthetics. There'll be something different - a hybrid of organic and synthetic.

[Vigilant111]

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
That synthesis is pointless then. Why do we have to impose something on everyone that doesn't solve the problem the star child brings up?

 
Remember that Synthesis is meant to be the ultimate solution to synthetics destroying organics utterly. You'll still have warfare, you just won't have the destruction of all organic life.

If you think that then you don't understand the reason for the conflict with orgaincs and synthetics.
Take a look ateverything on rennock and why the geth rebelion happen and you'll understand that if organic fight with themselves after synthesis then theproblem is not solved.

You understand, of course, that there will be no more pure organics after Synthesis, and no more pure synthetics. There'll be something different - a hybrid of organic and synthetic.

But I think so far no synthetic race has destroyed its organic creaters (depending on choice) apart from the reapers (who presumably destroyed their organic creators)

[Veneke]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
That synthesis is pointless then. Why do we have to impose something on everyone that doesn't solve the problem the star child brings up?

 
Remember that Synthesis is meant to be the ultimate solution to synthetics destroying organics utterly. You'll still have warfare, you just won't have the destruction of all organic life.

If you think that then you don't understand the reason for the conflict with orgaincs and synthetics.
Take a look ateverything on rennock and why the geth rebelion happen and you'll understand that if organic fight with themselves after synthesis then theproblem is not solved.

You understand, of course, that there will be no more pure organics after Synthesis, and no more pure synthetics. There'll be something different - a hybrid of organic and synthetic.

But I think so far no synthetic race has destroyed its organic creaters (depending on choice) apart from the reapers (who presumably destroyed their organic creators)

 
This is impossible to tell, it comes back to the issue of trust. If you don't accept the Catalyst's words at face value all of the endings become suspect (see Indoc. Theory). If you do then you accept that synthetic races do destroy their organic creators and will eventually wipe out all organic life. One isolated incident (Quarian/Geth) is not a basis for eternity. Neither, of course, is no evidence at all and so we're back to the issue of trust.

[dreman9999]

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
That synthesis is pointless then. Why do we have to impose something on everyone that doesn't solve the problem the star child brings up?

 
Remember that Synthesis is meant to be the ultimate solution to synthetics destroying organics utterly. You'll still have warfare, you just won't have the destruction of all organic life.

If you think that then you don't understand the reason for the conflict with orgaincs and synthetics.
Take a look ateverything on rennock and why the geth rebelion happen and you'll understand that if organic fight with themselves after synthesis then theproblem is not solved.

You understand, of course, that there will be no more pure organics after Synthesis, and no more pure synthetics. There'll be something different - a hybrid of organic and synthetic.

But what is stop these Hyprids from making Synthetics?
I can still make a robot when I'm a hydrid.

Modifié par dreman9999, 24 mai 2012 - 12:28 .

[Erield]

As you stated in your OP, even with Synthesis we are likely to get ourselves into a Tech Singularity situation at some point in the future (assuming Star Child is correct, and there is actually some justification for his Cycle.) Assuming that the "upgrades" we get will allow us to counter this is pretty damned risky, considering everything else you are also risking.

The very fact that literally every living being in the entire galaxy will have to learn how to live all over again, with exactly zero warning, is a major turn-off for me. Will food still power the used-to-be-humans? Will Quarians/Turians "suffer" from the same type of restrictions on food-source due to their amino acid bases (or...whatever it is. Not my most intelligent at 5am, sorry.) How exactly will this affect the Geth, since they're software? Will the new robot-parts in organics feel "pain"? How will these parts be repaired--will it have to be done manually, when no one has ever had to do it before, and so a new wave of experimentation will result...or will it be naturally?

There is a significant lack of information that I feel is absolutely necessary in order to choose this option with anything less than a mad scientist's outlook on life. I mean, sure, it's possible that everything could work out great. It also seems equally possible that everyone will die horribly from an unknown, untested tech changing everything about them in a short period of time.

The only way to make this option seem palatable is to go with your assumptions that it is a "good ending." If you start from there, then it becomes easy to see only the positives and the benefits and ignore the potential disasters; after all, if it's a good ending, there's no disaster. Right? I fail to see any evidence in-game to support the notion that it is a good ending, though. Perhaps I am evaluating the option unfairly, but I did not see any good ending for ME3. Just darkness, death, and despair for the entire galaxy.

[Vigilant111]

Veneke wrote...

This is impossible to tell, it comes back to the issue of trust. If you don't accept the Catalyst's words at face value all of the endings become suspect (see Indoc. Theory). If you do then you accept that synthetic races do destroy their organic creators and will eventually wipe out all organic life. One isolated incident (Quarian/Geth) is not a basis for eternity. Neither, of course, is no evidence at all and so we're back to the issue of trust.

oh well, I have been knocked back on this trust issue before, the catalyst is the vending machine, I only make logical decisions concerning immediate effect of each option, I would not base my decision on speculation of what might happen in the future, and the catalyst didn't tell me anything else so

no trust can be placed on something that is unknown to me until the last 5 minutes of the game, I need more assurance

Modifié par Vigilant111, 24 mai 2012 - 12:38 .

[Veneke]

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
That synthesis is pointless then. Why do we have to impose something on everyone that doesn't solve the problem the star child brings up?

 
Remember that Synthesis is meant to be the ultimate solution to synthetics destroying organics utterly. You'll still have warfare, you just won't have the destruction of all organic life.

If you think that then you don't understand the reason for the conflict with orgaincs and synthetics.
Take a look ateverything on rennock and why the geth rebelion happen and you'll understand that if organic fight with themselves after synthesis then theproblem is not solved.

You understand, of course, that there will be no more pure organics after Synthesis, and no more pure synthetics. There'll be something different - a hybrid of organic and synthetic.

But what is stop these Hyprids from making Synthetics?
I can still make a robot when I'm a hydrid.

 
Yes you could. However, the hybrid will be more advanced than the synthetic and will not run the risk of being entirely wiped out by those created synthetics. It will also not be the case that the synthetic could evolve beyond that of hybrids because any modification made to a synthetic could be replicated or advanced upon, by hybrids. This is how the technological singularity issue is overcome through synthesis.

There still remains the possibility that yet another technological singularity will be encountered but Synthesis is the ultimatel solution to /this/ technological singularity.

[Veneke]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

This is impossible to tell, it comes back to the issue of trust. If you don't accept the Catalyst's words at face value all of the endings become suspect (see Indoc. Theory). If you do then you accept that synthetic races do destroy their organic creators and will eventually wipe out all organic life. One isolated incident (Quarian/Geth) is not a basis for eternity. Neither, of course, is no evidence at all and so we're back to the issue of trust.

oh well, I have been knocked back on this trust issue before, the catalyst is the vending machine, I only make logical decisions concerning immediate effect of each option, I would not base my decision on speculation of what might happen in the future, and the catalyst didn't tell me anything else so

no trust can be placed on something that is unknown to me until the last 5 minutes of the game, I need more assurance

 
That's fair. Personally I think it's absurd that we're expected to trust the Catalyst given the circumstances. However, also given the circumstances there's no way to maintain a viable story without trusting him. To each their own really. The EC should clear up matters... hopefully.

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

This is impossible to tell, it comes back to the issue of trust. If you don't accept the Catalyst's words at face value all of the endings become suspect (see Indoc. Theory). If you do then you accept that synthetic races do destroy their organic creators and will eventually wipe out all organic life. One isolated incident (Quarian/Geth) is not a basis for eternity. Neither, of course, is no evidence at all and so we're back to the issue of trust.

oh well, I have been knocked back on this trust issue before, the catalyst is the vending machine, I only make logical decisions concerning immediate effect of each option, I would not base my decision on speculation of what might happen in the future, and the catalyst didn't tell me anything else so

no trust can be placed on something that is unknown to me until the last 5 minutes of the game, I need more assurance

Agreed. 

It makes baseless assertions that I'm supposed to care about, talks loosely about an issue that hasn't ever been brought up before in the story, and presents a problem that he has attempted to solve, that, whilst also being logically flawed on the most basic level, directly contradicts a handful of very important plot-events I had the pleasure of experiencing.

All of this idiocy is presented by an entity that is clearly accessing Shepard's sub-conscious, who I just met, is the thing allowing me to choose one of three options, and quite openly presents itself as the controller of the faction of genocidal machines responsible for the deaths of trillions and unknowable attrocities the likes of which we can't comprehend, that I just spend three games fighting against. To top it all off, it tries to justify this massive cycle of death by saying the various species it wipes out are stored as Reapers, as more killing machines. 

Reasons for trusting him include, well, you kind of don't have a choice, and Shepard is kind of hurt. 

No, Bioware, try again. 

[dreman9999]

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
That synthesis is pointless then. Why do we have to impose something on everyone that doesn't solve the problem the star child brings up?

 
Remember that Synthesis is meant to be the ultimate solution to synthetics destroying organics utterly. You'll still have warfare, you just won't have the destruction of all organic life.

If you think that then you don't understand the reason for the conflict with orgaincs and synthetics.
Take a look ateverything on rennock and why the geth rebelion happen and you'll understand that if organic fight with themselves after synthesis then theproblem is not solved.

You understand, of course, that there will be no more pure organics after Synthesis, and no more pure synthetics. There'll be something different - a hybrid of organic and synthetic.

But what is stop these Hyprids from making Synthetics?
I can still make a robot when I'm a hydrid.

 
Yes you could. However, the hybrid will be more advanced than the synthetic and will not run the risk of being entirely wiped out by those created synthetics. It will also not be the case that the synthetic could evolve beyond that of hybrids because any modification made to a synthetic could be replicated or advanced upon, by hybrids. This is how the technological singularity issue is overcome through synthesis.

There still remains the possibility that yet another technological singularity will be encountered but Synthesis is the ultimatel solution to /this/ technological singularity.

How would they be more advanced? Synthesis is to make sure organicsarenot left behind, not keep them more advanced then Synthetics. 
Also, if it synthesis causes another conflict based on singularity thenit means it's even more pointless.

Modifié par dreman9999, 24 mai 2012 - 12:52 .

[Vigilant111]

dreman9999 wrote...

How would they be more advanced? Synthesis is to make sure organicsarenot left behind, not keep them more advanced then Synthetics. 
Also, if it synthesis causes another conflict based on singularity thenit means it's even more pointless.

If I am a reaper, I would think combining with organics is such a drag, and given my arrogant/violent nature, its such a surprise that I would even show mercy

Modifié par Vigilant111, 24 mai 2012 - 12:55 .

[Veneke]

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
That synthesis is pointless then. Why do we have to impose something on everyone that doesn't solve the problem the star child brings up?

 
Remember that Synthesis is meant to be the ultimate solution to synthetics destroying organics utterly. You'll still have warfare, you just won't have the destruction of all organic life.

If you think that then you don't understand the reason for the conflict with orgaincs and synthetics.
Take a look ateverything on rennock and why the geth rebelion happen and you'll understand that if organic fight with themselves after synthesis then theproblem is not solved.

You understand, of course, that there will be no more pure organics after Synthesis, and no more pure synthetics. There'll be something different - a hybrid of organic and synthetic.

But what is stop these Hyprids from making Synthetics?
I can still make a robot when I'm a hydrid.

 
Yes you could. However, the hybrid will be more advanced than the synthetic and will not run the risk of being entirely wiped out by those created synthetics. It will also not be the case that the synthetic could evolve beyond that of hybrids because any modification made to a synthetic could be replicated or advanced upon, by hybrids. This is how the technological singularity issue is overcome through synthesis.

There still remains the possibility that yet another technological singularity will be encountered but Synthesis is the ultimatel solution to /this/ technological singularity.

How would they be more advanced? Synthesis is to make sure organicsarenot left behind, not keep them more advanced then Synthetics. 

 
 * This technological singularity that the Catalyst is warning us about is over the possibility of synthetics becoming so advanced that they overtake organics.
 * The Catalyst believes that this will result in the destruction of all organic life.
 * We have 3 options to pick to prevent this: Control, Synthesis, Destroy.
 * If you pick Synthesis organics and synthetics are merged into hybrids.
 * This removes the possibility of synthetics becoming so advanced that they overtake organics.
 * As such creating more synthetics will not result in the same technological singularity.
 * It is possible that another, different, singularity will be encountered where something else possesses the possibility of overtaking the new hybrids.

Modifié par Veneke, 24 mai 2012 - 12:57 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Veneke wrote...

 * This technological singularity that the Catalyst is warning us about is over the possibility of synthetics becoming so advanced that they overtake organics.

It's not actually saying anything like that. The whole 'singularity' business is a fan invention to make sense of things. 

Which is strange, because that should invalidate the serpents claims even more. Since the entire line of reasoning is based on our real-life understanding of it the concept, the fact that the serpent is saying anything with certainty should be suspect. 

[Veneke]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Veneke wrote...

 * This technological singularity that the Catalyst is warning us about is over the possibility of synthetics becoming so advanced that they overtake organics.

It's not actually saying anything like that. The whole 'singularity' business is a fan invention to make sense of things. 

Which is strange, because that should invalidate the serpents claims even more. Since the entire line of reasoning is based on our real-life understanding of it the concept, the fact that the serpent is saying anything with certainty should be suspect. 

 
Read OP mate.

[The Night Mammoth]

Veneke wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Veneke wrote...

 * This technological singularity that the Catalyst is warning us about is over the possibility of synthetics becoming so advanced that they overtake organics.

It's not actually saying anything like that. The whole 'singularity' business is a fan invention to make sense of things. 

Which is strange, because that should invalidate the serpents claims even more. Since the entire line of reasoning is based on our real-life understanding of it the concept, the fact that the serpent is saying anything with certainty should be suspect. 

 
Read OP mate.

I have, the point remains. 

[dreman9999]

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
That synthesis is pointless then. Why do we have to impose something on everyone that doesn't solve the problem the star child brings up?

 
Remember that Synthesis is meant to be the ultimate solution to synthetics destroying organics utterly. You'll still have warfare, you just won't have the destruction of all organic life.

If you think that then you don't understand the reason for the conflict with orgaincs and synthetics.
Take a look ateverything on rennock and why the geth rebelion happen and you'll understand that if organic fight with themselves after synthesis then theproblem is not solved.

You understand, of course, that there will be no more pure organics after Synthesis, and no more pure synthetics. There'll be something different - a hybrid of organic and synthetic.

But what is stop these Hyprids from making Synthetics?
I can still make a robot when I'm a hydrid.

 
Yes you could. However, the hybrid will be more advanced than the synthetic and will not run the risk of being entirely wiped out by those created synthetics. It will also not be the case that the synthetic could evolve beyond that of hybrids because any modification made to a synthetic could be replicated or advanced upon, by hybrids. This is how the technological singularity issue is overcome through synthesis.

There still remains the possibility that yet another technological singularity will be encountered but Synthesis is the ultimatel solution to /this/ technological singularity.

How would they be more advanced? Synthesis is to make sure organicsarenot left behind, not keep them more advanced then Synthetics. 

 
 * This technological singularity that the Catalyst is warning us about is over the possibility of synthetics becoming so advanced that they overtake organics.
 * The Catalyst believes that this will result in the destruction of all organic life.
 * We have 3 options to pick to prevent this: Control, Synthesis, Destroy.
 * If you pick Synthesis organics and synthetics are merged into hybrids.
 * This removes the possibility of synthetics becoming so advanced that they overtake organics.
 * As such creating more synthetics will not result in the same technological singularity.
 * It is possible that another, different, singularity will be encountered where something else possesses the possibility of overtaking the new hybrids.

Agian that will make it pointless.
The main consernis not the singularity of synthetics but the conflict of it. Haveto not what are the reasonsof the conflict first...It does not happen. It's been shown time and time agein the synthetic only attack when attacked first and out of defence. Stopping synthetics form wiping out organic via singulaty is point lss ifthe synthetic have no reason to attack organics.
Saying that it's a problem leave open aquetion to why synthetic singulary is nned to be fear if synthetic nature givesthem not reason to attack any thing.

Say the sythesis allows the hybids to be more advace then what ever synthetic they make ignores the fact that syntheticwill be usin gthe same level of teckthe hybrid will have from the get go....They are made with the advance tech your saying isthe hybrids advatage...That would makeno sence being the sythetic can tak any tech the hybrids makeof their own.I just make organics even with synthetics...That solvesnothing.

And having synthesis with our curret nature wouuld garrantee the dangers of technological singularity the hybrids. Ournuture is to have conflict. We would advance our weapons to a point that it would belike a galatic version of the usa/ussr stand off.

Synthesis solves nothing.

[Vigilant111]

dreman9999 wrote...

Say the sythesis allows the hybids to be more advace then what ever synthetic they make ignores the fact that syntheticwill be usin gthe same level of teckthe hybrid will have from the get go....They are made with the advance tech your saying isthe hybrids advatage...That would makeno sence being the sythetic can tak any tech the hybrids makeof their own.I just make organics even with synthetics...That solvesnothing.

And having synthesis with our curret nature wouuld garrantee the dangers of technological singularity the hybrids. Ournuture is to have conflict. We would advance our weapons to a point that it would belike a galatic version of the usa/ussr stand off.

Synthesis solves nothing.

I like that, u r saying that having organic's natures preserved, hybrids can still do evil things like the reapers

[Ieldra]

dreman9999 wrote...
Say the sythesis allows the hybids to be more advace then what ever synthetic they make ignores the fact that syntheticwill be usin gthe same level of teckthe hybrid will have from the get go....They are made with the advance tech your saying isthe hybrids advatage...That would makeno sence being the sythetic can tak any tech the hybrids makeof their own.I just make organics even with synthetics...That solvesnothing.

It does solve it - because the trilogy makes the point: if we are on approximately the same level as someone else, we can co-operate and are not doomed to kill each other.

And having synthesis with our curret nature wouuld garrantee the dangers of technological singularity the hybrids. Ournuture is to have conflict. We would advance our weapons to a point that it would belike a galatic version of the usa/ussr stand off.

That is quite possible. But we've not destroyed the world in *that* conflict either. I've never claimed there would be no conflict. The game doesn't either. All it says is there will be no extinction. And as long as we're not extinct, we can learn.

I would say, though, that synthetics and organics would rarely come into conflict at all because of different interests. The hypothesis is that the danger of extinction does not arise from conflict but from indifference. Post-singularilty synthetics wouldn't be in conflict with organics. They would eradicate them on their way to something else, the same way we eradicate species on Earth just by expanding across its face.

BTW, what's the matter with your spelling? Stoned?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 mai 2012 - 01:30 .

[Veneke]

dreman9999 wrote...

Agian that will make it pointless.
The main consernis not the singularity of synthetics but the conflict of it. Haveto not what are the reasonsof the conflict first...It does not happen. It's been shown time and time agein the synthetic only attack when attacked first and out of defence. Stopping synthetics form wiping out organic via singulaty is point lss ifthe synthetic have no reason to attack organics.
Saying that it's a problem leave open aquetion to why synthetic singulary is nned to be fear if synthetic nature givesthem not reason to attack any thing.

Say the sythesis allows the hybids to be more advace then what ever synthetic they make ignores the fact that syntheticwill be usin gthe same level of teckthe hybrid will have from the get go....They are made with the advance tech your saying isthe hybrids advatage...That would makeno sence being the sythetic can tak any tech the hybrids makeof their own.I just make organics even with synthetics...That solvesnothing.

And having synthesis with our curret nature wouuld garrantee the dangers of technological singularity the hybrids. Ournuture is to have conflict. We would advance our weapons to a point that it would belike a galatic version of the usa/ussr stand off.

Synthesis solves nothing.

It's been shown /once/ that the synthetic/organic conflict was the result of synthetic self-defence. Which, incidently, does not rule out the possibility of the future destruction of all organic life.
 
And no, not all hybrid tech can be used by those machines that are solely synthetic. That's the whole point. There are also no longer any 'organics' in this scenario, only hybrids and potentially other synthetics which cannot use hybrid tech.

Nobody is debating that synthesis solves all warfare. Indeed, it was explicitly stated, several times, that it would not remove all warfare from the galaxy. Of course it doesn't solve that problem, it's not intended to do so.

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I have, the point remains. 

You actually made two points - trust and the singularity.

I (and others) have made numerous posts now on the necessity to trust the Catalyst for any of the endings to make sense. The OP addresses them and pretty much every argument against trusting the Catalyst has been addressed in the subsequent discussion. If none of that convinces you I'm not sure it's worthwhile debating the point further with you.
 
With regards the singularity, which I believe is your primary point, that is quite clearly shorthand for what the Catalyst said and the variety of assumptions that must be made in light of the poor execution of the endings. The Catalyst says that all organic life will be destroyed by synthetic life if left unchecked. The implication being that synthetics will eventually outdo organics entirely. The fact that he doesn't label it as a singularity does not make it any less of one.

[dreman9999]

Vigilant111 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Say the sythesis allows the hybids to be more advace then what ever synthetic they make ignores the fact that syntheticwill be usin gthe same level of teckthe hybrid will have from the get go....They are made with the advance tech your saying isthe hybrids advatage...That would makeno sence being the sythetic can tak any tech the hybrids makeof their own.I just make organics even with synthetics...That solvesnothing.

And having synthesis with our curret nature wouuld garrantee the dangers of technological singularity the hybrids. Ournuture is to have conflict. We would advance our weapons to a point that it would belike a galatic version of the usa/ussr stand off.

Synthesis solves nothing.

I like that, u r saying that having organic's natures preserved, hybrids can still do evil things like the reapers

I'm saying that the cause of conflit with organic is in born nature to cause conflit. It's need forustoservive but it can overwelm us. It's the main reason why we have confilict with synthetics.Not how on rennochit was the quarians that forced the geth to rebel.The reapers feel that thisis the coreof the issue as well being as indoctriantion takes control  of the limbic system, the part of the brian the nature of conflict is in.

I'm say that not controling this nature of organics make synthesis pointless. It's like give a former crack addict keys to a room filled with crack.

[dreman9999]

Veneke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Agian that will make it pointless.
The main consernis not the singularity of synthetics but the conflict of it. Haveto not what are the reasonsof the conflict first...It does not happen. It's been shown time and time agein the synthetic only attack when attacked first and out of defence. Stopping synthetics form wiping out organic via singulaty is point lss ifthe synthetic have no reason to attack organics.
Saying that it's a problem leave open aquetion to why synthetic singulary is nned to be fear if synthetic nature givesthem not reason to attack any thing.

Say the sythesis allows the hybids to be more advace then what ever synthetic they make ignores the fact that syntheticwill be usin gthe same level of teckthe hybrid will have from the get go....They are made with the advance tech your saying isthe hybrids advatage...That would makeno sence being the sythetic can tak any tech the hybrids makeof their own.I just make organics even with synthetics...That solvesnothing.

And having synthesis with our curret nature wouuld garrantee the dangers of technological singularity the hybrids. Ournuture is to have conflict. We would advance our weapons to a point that it would belike a galatic version of the usa/ussr stand off.

Synthesis solves nothing.

It's been shown /once/ that the synthetic/organic conflict was the result of synthetic self-defence. Which, incidently, does not rule out the possibility of the future destruction of all organic life.
 
And no, not all hybrid tech can be used by those machines that are solely synthetic. That's the whole point. There are also no longer any 'organics' in this scenario, only hybrids and potentially other synthetics which cannot use hybrid tech.

Nobody is debating that synthesis solves all warfare. Indeed, it was explicitly stated, several times, that it would not remove all warfare from the galaxy. Of course it doesn't solve that problem, it's not intended to do so.

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I have, the point remains. 

You actually made two points - trust and the singularity.

I (and others) have made numerous posts now on the necessity to trust the Catalyst for any of the endings to make sense. The OP addresses them and pretty much every argument against trusting the Catalyst has been addressed in the subsequent discussion. If none of that convinces you I'm not sure it's worthwhile debating the point further with you.
 
With regards the singularity, which I believe is your primary point, that is quite clearly shorthand for what the Catalyst said and the variety of assumptions that must be made in light of the poor execution of the endings. The Catalyst says that all organic life will be destroyed by synthetic life if left unchecked. The implication being that synthetics will eventually outdo organics entirely. The fact that he doesn't label it as a singularity does not make it any less of one.

And the reaper on rannoch comfermed that was the main case with the organic /synthetic conflict. He basicly says, "What happened here is the reason why we are doing this."
Takesome time to remeber everythingLegion tells you and shows youin ME2. BW when out of there way to show how alien syntheticsare to organics inthis one scene...
 

The only person in that scene the was right on was Garrus, a person who specilizes in understanding his enemy.
My point is saying that a synthetic sigularity is bad because synthetic may destory organic is ignoringthe natureof synthetics. They won'tjustattck unless attacked first.

[Vigilant111]

Ieldra2 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Say the sythesis allows the hybids to be more advace then what ever synthetic they make ignores the fact that syntheticwill be usin gthe same level of teckthe hybrid will have from the get go....They are made with the advance tech your saying isthe hybrids advatage...That would makeno sence being the sythetic can tak any tech the hybrids makeof their own.I just make organics even with synthetics...That solvesnothing.

It does solve it - because the trilogy makes the point: if we are on approximately the same level as someone else, we can co-operate and are not doomed to kill each other.

And having synthesis with our curret nature wouuld garrantee the dangers of technological singularity the hybrids. Ournuture is to have conflict. We would advance our weapons to a point that it would belike a galatic version of the usa/ussr stand off.

That is quite possible. But we've not destroyed the world in *that* conflict either. I've never claimed there would be no conflict. The game doesn't either. All it says is there will be no extinction. And as long as we're not extinct, we can learn.

I would say, though, that synthetics and organics would rarely come into conflict at all because of different interests. The hypothesis is that the danger of extinction does not arise from conflict but from indifference. Post-singularilty synthetics wouldn't be in conflict with organics. They would eradicate them on their way to something else, the same way we eradicate species on Earth just by expanding across its face.

BTW, what's the matter with your spelling? Stoned?

Excuse me, who made the organic races extinct so far? that's right the reapers ONLY

so your rationale is that if you are substantially weaker than us then u get destroyed, if u are quite close to us in terms of strength then u can join us, its all "the fittest survive" again

[The Night Mammoth]

Veneke wrote...

You actually made two points - trust and the singularity.

I (and others) have made numerous posts now on the necessity to trust the Catalyst for any of the endings to make sense. The OP addresses them and pretty much every argument against trusting the Catalyst has been addressed in the subsequent discussion. If none of that convinces you I'm not sure it's worthwhile debating the point further with you.

I'm not debating the point of trust. If you trust it, fine, I don't, not arguing the why's with anyone, I've stated the reasons I can see further back.
 

With regards the singularity, which I believe is your primary point, that is quite clearly shorthand for what the Catalyst said and the variety of assumptions that must be made in light of the poor execution of the endings. The Catalyst says that all organic life will be destroyed by synthetic life if left unchecked. The implication being that synthetics will eventually outdo organics entirely. The fact that he doesn't label it as a singularity does not make it any less of one.

I never said it falt-out wasn't a singularity, just that the explanation of it is being applied from a real-world perspective, not from any information given in-game. 

As a result, I find it strange that this then doesn't invalidate the Catalyst's point, since a singularity on these terms is by definition something we can't predict past, the consequences of it will not ever be known until it happens. 

Meaning the singualrity has to have occured to base any conclusion on it, which essentially undermines the original premise under all circumstances. 

[Vigilant111]

dreman9999 wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Say the sythesis allows the hybids to be more advace then what ever synthetic they make ignores the fact that syntheticwill be usin gthe same level of teckthe hybrid will have from the get go....They are made with the advance tech your saying isthe hybrids advatage...That would makeno sence being the sythetic can tak any tech the hybrids makeof their own.I just make organics even with synthetics...That solvesnothing.

And having synthesis with our curret nature wouuld garrantee the dangers of technological singularity the hybrids. Ournuture is to have conflict. We would advance our weapons to a point that it would belike a galatic version of the usa/ussr stand off.

Synthesis solves nothing.

I like that, u r saying that having organic's natures preserved, hybrids can still do evil things like the reapers

I'm saying that the cause of conflit with organic is in born nature to cause conflit. It's need forustoservive but it can overwelm us. It's the main reason why we have confilict with synthetics.Not how on rennochit was the quarians that forced the geth to rebel.The reapers feel that thisis the coreof the issue as well being as indoctriantion takes control  of the limbic system, the part of the brian the nature of conflict is in.

I'm say that not controling this nature of organics make synthesis pointless. It's like give a former crack addict keys to a room filled with crack.

That last bit make u sound like Garrus...hahahahahaha:D *arms folded, fingers tapping on side of arm

My view is that organics produce synthetics for their own benefits without considering ethical issues, they just couldn's stop, and I believe synthetics were created so that they can do dirty work for organics, it is the organics that need to be restricted from making more synthetics

Modifié par Vigilant111, 24 mai 2012 - 01:45 .

[dreman9999]

Ieldra2 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Say the sythesis allows the hybids to be more advace then what ever synthetic they make ignores the fact that syntheticwill be usin gthe same level of teckthe hybrid will have from the get go....They are made with the advance tech your saying isthe hybrids advatage...That would makeno sence being the sythetic can tak any tech the hybrids makeof their own.I just make organics even with synthetics...That solvesnothing.

It does solve it - because the trilogy makes the point: if we are on approximately the same level as someone else, we can co-operate and are not doomed to kill each other.

And having synthesis with our curret nature wouuld garrantee the dangers of technological singularity the hybrids. Ournuture is to have conflict. We would advance our weapons to a point that it would belike a galatic version of the usa/ussr stand off.

That is quite possible. But we've not destroyed the world in *that* conflict either. I've never claimed there would be no conflict. The game doesn't either. All it says is there will be no extinction. And as long as we're not extinct, we can learn.

I would say, though, that synthetics and organics would rarely come into conflict at all because of different interests. The hypothesis is that the danger of extinction does not arise from conflict but from indifference. Post-singularilty synthetics wouldn't be in conflict with organics. They would eradicate them on their way to something else, the same way we eradicate species on Earth just by expanding across its face.

BTW, what's the matter with your spelling? Stoned?

1. Then we had nothing to worry about during the USA/USSR stand off then.
PS...Nothing in ME support that clam youjust made.
2.We did not destory the worldin that conflict because one side fell apart on their own. It won't be thateasy with another.
3. It not indifferanct that cause this extiction. Animal are themselve indifferent to animal that are not a threat to them and they don't kill animals that are indifferent, too. And Ox who is indifferent to a bird on his back won't kill it...The nature of conflict causes death. And OXbullwith kill another OX bull out of the nature of conflict.