9088 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

I kind of understand where the devs were going with the idea of this cycle being ready. There is the example of the Krogran being uplifted, and the the example of the Geth taking the Reaper upgrades.

The Krogan were uplifted and it resulted in them attacking their allies, or abusing their new gifts, and making war - not ready. The Geth were uplifted by Legion and used their abilities to work cooperatively with the other races in the Reaper war - ready. But it took 400 years for the Krogan "unreadiness" to turn into the Krogan Rebellion. The Geth have only been uplifted for, what, a few weeks maybe.

The big difference is that Legion is part of a collective and can literally know what many of the other members of its race were thinking. For Shepard, I suppose the parallel is his journey through the three games where he understands the people of the Council enough to unite them for the war.

Modifié par Obadiah, 29 janvier 2014 - 02:19 .

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

If merely making it to that point is the only justification for Synthesis, then I could say the same for all endings. They're all equal in that respect. You could also say we're ready for a strong organic "Ascension" by destroying the Reapers and coming out relatively OK. In that sense, we're an "organic singularity" to the Catalyst. That hasn't happened before either. In any case, you're right that the Catalyst is obsolete. Although I don't think it's because of Shepard per se. It's the Crucible. He gives credit to everyone on that. "Clearly you organics are more resourceful than we realized."

all correct. Which is why he allows Shepard to choose. However, what justifies Synthesis is that it unequivocally solves the Catalysts issue, whilst fulfilling it's purpose. Whereas Destroy and Control are now justifiable in it's mind because we have shown that we are capable of sustaining the torch of life without the need for the Catalyst to keep it from getting extinguished. (due to Shepard making it possible for the Crucible to dock)

Modifié par Mcfly616, 29 janvier 2014 - 02:09 .

[CosmicGnosis]

I've been scouring the Internet for various discussions about the Synthesis ending, and the general consensus is that it's bad. This is not surprising, of course, but it's really starting to make me realize that there is no future for this choice. Unless there is some kind of silent majority of fans that likes Synthesis, I don't think BioWare will ever do anything with it. The Internet has declared that Synthesis is a loathsome ending that does the following:

1. Homogenizes the galaxy
2. Betrays everything the series stands for
3. Sides with the Reapers

Now, none of these conclusions are completely correct, but that doesn't matter. Perception is reality, and if the majority believes Synthesis to be this terrible, then it is. BioWare is most at fault here because of their botched presentation of the choice, and it's unfortunate that an ending which promises "unlimited access to knowledge" is viewed as the worst ending. I feel like I am denied my preferred ending because the writers couldn't stop themselves from including spirituality and the implication that my Shepard disregards the personal choice of every being in the galaxy. Based on the leaked scripts, it's very likely that Synthesis was intended to be the "best" ending from the very beginning, but it almost looks like someone deliberately sabotaged it.

If the next ME game doesn't retcon certain aspects of Synthesis, then I don't think that I can choose it as my canon ending. I know there are people who are able to ignore what the game shows them, and modify the endings to their liking, but I can't do that. It's very difficult for me to headcanon something that completely contradicts the official product. I sincerely hope that BioWare revisits Synthesis to make it more appealing, but if they don't, then I suppose that Control will be my personal canon.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 14 février 2014 - 06:03 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

I've been scouring the Internet for various discussions about the Synthesis ending, and the general consensus is that it's bad. This is not surprising, of course, but it's really starting to make me realize that there is no future for this choice. Unless there is some kind of silent majority of fans that likes Synthesis, I don't think BioWare will ever do anything with it. The Internet has declared that Synthesis is a loathsome ending that does the following:

1. Homogenizes the galaxy
2. Betrays everything the series stands for
3. Sides with the Reapers

Now, none of these conclusions are completely correct, but that doesn't matter. Perception is reality, and if the majority believes Synthesis to be this terrible, then it is. BioWare is most at fault here because of their botched presentation of the choice, and it's unfortunate that an ending which promises "unlimited access to knowledge" is viewed as the worst ending. I feel like I am denied my preferred ending because the writers couldn't stop themselves from including spirituality and the implication that my Shepard disregards the personal choice of every being in the galaxy. Based on the leaked scripts, it's very likely that Synthesis was intended to be the "best" ending from the very beginning, but it almost looks like someone deliberately sabotaged it.

If the next ME game doesn't retcon certain aspects of Synthesis, then I don't think that I can choose it as my canon ending. I know there are people who are able to ignore what the game shows them, and modify the endings to their liking, but I can't do that. It's very difficult for me to headcanon something that completely contradicts the official product. I sincerely hope that BioWare revisits Synthesis to make it more appealing, but if they don't, then I suppose that Control will be my personal canon.

I think the problem with Synthesis is that it comes from out of no where. At least with Destroy and Control there have been various arguements made for both of them, so they are not completely arbitrary. Synthesis on the other hand is a complete stranger. Furthermore, what it does mechanically and what it entails as far as consequences are largely vague. Add that with it's highfalutin ambiguity, awkward religious imagery, nonsensicalness, and some thematic tension with the rest of the game; and you have yourself a recipe for disaster.

I don't think there is a way to fix Synthesis, because to do that Synthesis would have to be added as a viable option not in the last 5 minutes of the game but the entirety of ME3. Otherwise any future title will be spending a large bulk of time trying to justify it retroactively. And like politics if you're explaining, you're losing.

[SwobyJ]

Both the Genophage cure and Rannoch peace have moral arguments for Synthesis.

But that's it. It's a moral argument, even as I remember seeing many try to figure out the mechanics of it.

Most of my opinions on it actually hinge on what the next game will be.

If the next game has nothing to do with ME3 (and yes, I've read the notices from Bioware, but that's not what I'm talking about), then yea, Synthesis is junk to me

If the next game is what I think it MAY be, then Synthesis is damn fine as it is, and interesting, and I'd be tempted to pick it for my MainShep. I mean, I won't, but I'd be damn sure to have an alt do it.

Hint in case I'm right though: Don't think so literally. You saw green techno lines not just on people, but on their clothing, the leaves on plants, pretty much anything of organic and synthetic 'life'. We don't even know how that happened still.

Except.. "the matrix" (both explained in part of the Catalyst's dialogue with that word, but also "End of First Matrix" in Mac's notes).

Try to understand that, and you *might* be on the road to understanding Synthesis. And maybe all of ME3. And maybe the trilogy.

[Ieldra]

CosmicGnosis wrote...
Now, none of these conclusions are completely correct, but that doesn't matter. Perception is reality, and if the majority believes Synthesis to be this terrible, then it is. BioWare is most at fault here because of their botched presentation of the choice, and it's unfortunate that an ending which promises "unlimited access to knowledge" is viewed as the worst ending. I feel like I am denied my preferred ending because the writers couldn't stop themselves from including spirituality and the implication that my Shepard disregards the personal choice of every being in the galaxy. Based on the leaked scripts, it's very likely that Synthesis was intended to be the "best" ending from the very beginning, but it almost looks like someone deliberately sabotaged it.

Pfft. A majority of knee-jerk reactions is meaningless. Perception may be reality, but the perception of the majority does not create reality for everyone. It does not matter at all if Bioware will do anything with Synthesis, it is what it is - the various different things - in the minds of different people, and since every playthrough is a self-contained alternate universe, there is no need to accept contamination by others.

Having said that, for the moment I'm done with ME. Looking back with more emotional detachment, it becomes clear just how much my experience of the trilogy has been dominated by the fight against traditionalist crap and thematic messages I detest. Stupid protagonists, mysticism, heart-over-mind is good while mind-over-heart is bad, biological nonsense, "organic energy", life sciences are bad, the list goes on. It is actually no surprise at all that people conditioned to all that believe Synthesis is bad. The only question is if someone at Bioware reinforced that direction and consequently "sabotaged" the less thematically problematic version of the leaked script, or if it was all the result of bad writing. That - how it all came to pass with the ending and all - is the only thing left about the ME universe I really want to know.

I'm glad the trilogy is done, so I can leave without feeling as if having left things unfinished. If the next game expects any chance of winning me back, it has to drastically change the way it presents its themes.

Meanwhile, I've used the freedom Bioware has given me by saying little about the future to craft my personal long-after-Synthesis epilogue. That is how things will end up for my main Shepard, and I pride myself for having violated no lore to get there like Bioware did with its "organic energy", I just used the lore in creative ways (though I didn't explain that in the story - if you want to know, please ask). It is not an utopia, but as I envision the scenario, people usually have a life that makes them smile more often than it makes them cry.

[dorktainian]

I suppose Synthesis lovers can all gather round a fire with some food (oh wait.. it's synthetic now so you can't eat it) Oh wait they dont need a fire because they no longer need warmth as they are synthetic.

Console yourselves that genetic re-writing on a massive scale isnt at all ethically dodgy.

Wipe away the odd tear... Oh wait you cannot cry anymore because your tear ducts are synthetic.


Congratulations Synthesis.  You managed to unite the galaxy.... In it's hatred of synthesis.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I doubt BW has the guts to do such a thing. That said, I'm not convinced it's a terrible or hopeless idea, either.

Being a Jack fan back in the ME2 days was pretty brutal. Almost as unpopular as the Green ending (only Jacob was hated more). It wasn't just BSN, either. Just about everywhere on the internet, you saw the same comments against her.

Then ME3 rolls around, where she "evolves" a bit as a character and even gets a redesign, and suddenly you find all these requests from fans clamoring for a DLC making her a squadmate. Which still amazes me, given the hate I remember she used to get. It evens sounds like Jack was close to being made a squadmate in ME3, but that her lack of popularity scared them out of it. She was probably replaced by Tali, whom I know for a fact was intially planned for a non-squad role.

Anyway, what I'm getting at here is that ... if they can create an attractive and interesting setting based off Sync ending, I would bet that most would accept it reasonably well, save for staunch anti-enders that are determined to hate such things on principle. I'm certainly not counting on anything like this to happen, but I can envision a scenario where it could work out.


I had actually lain the groundwork for such a setting and some potential stories, I just didn't put pen to paper on them because I was kind of tired of ME by that point and moved on to DA. But all this talk of "ME4" has made me revisit it...

*edit*

Come to think of it, BioWare has flirted with that kind of thing already....

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 14 février 2014 - 05:36 .

[Mcfly616]

Meh....I only ever see a good concentration of Synthesis "haters" on the BSN, really. Nearly every Mass Effect fan I've bumped into in real life has said they prefer Synthesis (and loved it).


You shouldn't try to label what the "majority" of people think. It's impossible. One thing you can count on is that the majority of the majority is most definitely silent.

[Obadiah]

I think the last episode of Almost Human was about Dorian's creator and the Synthetic Soul program. At a certain point he describes the essence of a person or Dorian, that is not a genetic code or the mechanical body Dorian is in, and he pulls out a vial and indicates that this is another "soul". I expect that, thought the "Organic energy" and "essence" of Shepard are described in terms that affirm a form of Duality, if the Catalyst had time it would pull up a schematic of an organic brain, and some energy pattern generated by a gland somewhere and, "yeah I'm dispersing that."

[CosmicGnosis]

I've discovered something interesting. It's kind of hard to explain, but I'll try.

My current EMS is 2783. As we all know, Synthesis requires 2800. What is interesting is that the green bar that represents my current EMS has a sliver of gray, which, of course, represents the strength that I don't have. This small sliver of gray must be the 17 points that I need in order to unlock Synthesis.

So what does this mean? It means that the EMS bar "caps" at the unlocking of Synthesis. I never knew this. It is simply more evidence that BioWare considered Synthesis to be the top tier ending. You can continue to gain more EMS after the green bar caps out, but the bar itself doesn't increase beyond 2800. In other words, you need exactly 2800 EMS to completely fill up the bar.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 15 février 2014 - 06:16 .

[Philosophaster]

Edit: Never mind. Misread the post.

Modifié par inconsiderate rick, 15 février 2014 - 05:42 .

[SwobyJ]

Breath Destroy, breaking the game, lol
Synthesis, optimal result
Control, safe result
High Destroy, doing the job

[DoomsdayDevice]

More like optimal result for the Reapers.

"We will bring your species into harmony with our own."

[Gervaise]

I tend to evaluate the endings in their original form rather than the altered (more upbeat) EC version. In the original Shepard always dies, which was something I had anticipated from the moment we were told about the need for a "catalyst" to make the Crucible work. I instantly thought that Shepard would prove to be the catalyst and would have to sacrifice themselves for victory. Nothing about the subsequent endings has actually changed that view.

Not all people hate the synthesis ending. I do but a friend of mine thinks it is great. My dislike stems from the gut reaction I had on seeing every organic with glowing green eyes and even leaves changed. I truly felt I had been suckered into accepting a solution (by the writers) that had effectively given outright victory to the Reapers since there was no longer any true organic life remaining. I am pretty sure it was intended to be the "best" ending (or at least the one the writers most wanted you to take) and this seems borne out the fact that it was the central path and that it had a white light associated with it that is commonly associated with goodness and purity and also linked to the last mind sharing moment you have with Liara. However, all the endings were meant to promote debate, presumably over what actually happened and which was preferable. I am also mindful of the fact that the writers originally wanted to try and simulate the Reapers taking control of Shepard's mind or the player at least temporarily losing control. From this point of view, it may be that synthesis was deliberately made to sound and look attractive to mimic the affect of the Reapers controlling Shepard's thoughts. My first run through I nearly took the right hand (red) path but was confused by the colouring, so conditioned was I to see red as the ruthless, renegade path and this particular Shepard was a paragon. The left hand (blue) didn't make sense either and so I followed the bright white light. That I was persuaded to do something that my instinct told me was not what I wanted to do I consider an extremely clever bit of manipulation by the writers.

However, now such a long period of time has passed from launch, it would be helpful to know whether this was intentional mimicking of indoctrination or simply open to interpretation. May be we will get some answers in ME4, assuming of course that it is set post ME3.

[SwobyJ]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

More like optimal result for the Reapers.

"We will bring your species into harmony with our own."

Then cool, species getting together.

Krogan nearly wiped out the rest of the major species.
Rachni nearly wiped out the rest of the major species.
Citadel species work to have, eventually, all species in harmony with their own (soft power usually).
Prothians forced the other species to be in 'harmony with their own' (in a looser sense). Only way out of it would be to organize and topple the Prothians.

Reapers just do it to godly scale. If you're up for what looks like peace, try it, and see if it is legit if Bioware tries a sequel of any sort. If you're not, just shoot the tube - either in punishment of the Reapers, or distrust of them. Or really just simple duty.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 16 février 2014 - 07:01 .

[SwobyJ]

I'm not repulsed by the green eyes etc, at much as some.

It's more:
1)The visual representation of Synthesis seems to indicate to me that what I'm seeing isn't real. 'Matrix' of organic life, eh? Cyber leaves and skin? Haha.. right..
2)Enforcing will over a couple species is the most I'd ever try (and I do view the Geth as a synthetic species). Not the galaxy's whole foundation. And I'd only make these decisions if the species is more like overwhelming in their actions and motives. For example, I don't blame the Council species for trying the Genophage, even while I go for a cure. I'm with Mordin there. Same as how I'll try to Destroy the Reapers, especially if the alternatives are what I'm shown. If they or some of them actually survive this (hypothetically)? Then maybe I'd try something else. As it is, I see the Geth and EDI to be ready for this action.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 16 février 2014 - 07:07 .

[SwobyJ]

@Gervaise: If my thoughts are right about things (and oh boy, my thoughts are damn weird, I think it's more like:

Destroy - Fulfilling end of Shepard's Story, so series vets will go for this. Thus the Breath Scene included, instead of not included or left for a future patch/DLC.
Control - Default story for what's to come, so newcomers will go for this. Thus the comfortable enough tone for auto-Paragon players.
Synthesis - Fulfilling end to the player's story, so series vets may go for this. Thus, why it's pumped up so much. It has to be, or else there's no point to including it (storytelling mechanics wise).

This way, people get what they want in the games to come. Those attached to Shepard may at least continue this attachment through Destroy. Those who like him but are kinda done with him as a sort of character, can continue this affection through Control. Those who are just 'sooo done with him' can go Synthesis.

But then again I see the ending as both real and unreal at the same time, so I should just be put in a padded cell. lol, we'll see this or next year
I just think that while we're done with Commander Shepard, there's still more to come from this plot.

[DoomsdayDevice]

It's about as real as the Matrix.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 17 février 2014 - 01:00 .

[CosmicGnosis]

I just realized something amusing. There are three specific ending analyses that I consider to be required reading for all Mass Effect fans. This thread contains one of them. The other two are from JShepppp and MyChemicalBromance. What is amusing is that these threads were created by people who do not choose Destroy as their canon ending. Ieldra and MyChemicalBromance choose Synthesis, and JShepppp chooses Control.

[CosmicGnosis]

It's amusing that the most compelling analyses (in my opinion) were written by people who chose Synthesis and Control, and not Destroy. The implication is that more "thoughtful" people will lean towards these choices. Of course, one could argue that these choices require way too much analysis to even make sense, and in that case, Destroy fits better with the story that came before.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 17 février 2014 - 02:27 .

[Darks1d3]

I don't know, I think this analysis is also interesting (thank you MadCat for supplying this link in your sig), and the author doesn't like any of the endings.

http://social.biowar...ndex/11435886/1