9088 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir DeLoria]

I think BW wouldn't dare make Synthesis the canon ending, simply because the majority of fans strongly opposes it. This way they'd isolate the majority of their fans in favor of a select few. I'm absolutely no fan of synthesis myself, simply because of all the overwhelming fridge horror involved and the lack of a clear reason to pick it over High EMS destroy.

It's more likely, that if BW makes a clear, linear sequel, that the entire ending choice will be brushed over completely.

[Iakus]

It's more likely, that if BW makes a clear, linear sequel, that the entire ending choice will be brushed over completely.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed on this

[ImaginaryMatter]

Keeping my fingers crossed on this

 

Same here. Hope is supported by the fact that ME4 will be on a new console (for those of us who have not partaken in the light of PC) so save files can't transfer directly and that accounting for all the crazy directions the galaxy could take would cost to much development time to make feasible.

[Seival]

Alternatively, BioWare could take the post-synthesis ME ideas, build the whole new IP around them, and eventually create something much better than MEU. Imagine, say, ME and DA hybrid with mental networking features as a replacement of fade and some rare element as a replacement of lyrium and element zero. Some kind of techno-magic setting, but more techno than magic, or in other words sci-fi with some truly phantasmagorial mysteries and powers.

[von uber]

Post-synthesis is something really ingenious for the series.

 

Well they could recycle all those Reaper units they made at least, saving on dev time. They just need to give them green eyes.

[JeffZero]

I definitely disagree that there's no reason to pick it over High EMS Destroy, unsurprisingly. I tried to end a file with Destroy once -- a file I spent all three games intending to end with Destroy -- and I just couldn't not reload immediately. Went with Control that time as that particular Shepard wouldn't choose Synthesis for sure, but Destroy... egh, not for me.

Same here. Hope is supported by the fact that ME4 will be on a new console (for those of us who have not partaken in the light of PC) so save files can't transfer directly and that accounting for all the crazy directions the galaxy could take would cost to much development time to make feasible.

Well, I recognize that the setup for the next game could be so varied this may not be deemed necessary, but the Dragon Age Keep us going to be setting a precedent that choice transference can absolutely be made across console generations. Something similar -- I toyingly refer to it as the "Mass Relay" -- can serve the same function.

That said, I hesitantly agree bypassing the ending choice altogether may well be the best thing BioWare can possibly do at this point.

[CronoDragoon]

Green glow/metaphysicial-religious-BS aside, I think the Catalyst is philosophically on-point when he suggests that technology is in the process of becoming inseparable from organic identity, and that Synthesis is simply an acceleration of this process.

 

That being said, let's say ME4 starts with synthetic integration into organics at a much higher level than where we left it in ME3, but less than Synthesis' apparent Super-Saiyan power-up of organic physical capabilities and synthetic emotional understanding. Would Synthesis people accept that as a compromise: a sort of retcon of the level of advancement so that an ME future can be made consistent with all endings? After all, Destroyers can simply say that this process happened naturally.

 

The question of the Reapers could be solved in one or two lines but would essentially necessitate an exodus of the Reapers in totality from the known universe in both Control and Synthesis. Is this acceptable in order to avoid a potentially official Destroy canonization?

[Sir DeLoria]

Well that's fine, you don't have to pick destroy. I always pick it because by this point in the story, the Geth are already dead and I don't care enough about EDI to sacrifice Shep.

[Obadiah]

Someone else had this idea on another thread (forget where I read it):

 

Write the next Mass Effect (ME4) as if it took place in parallel dimension/reality without Shepard or the Reaper invasion, one in which all possible Crucible blasts were fired by us player's Shepards in other parallel dimensions. All the blast waves (Destroy, Control, Synthesis) affected the other dimensions that didn't fire the Crucible in some way, and in this dimension of ME4 the blast waves destroyed/disabled/weakened the Reapers and prevented their attack.

 

It would be the perfect setup for... er... tears in the fabric of reality to appear (caused by the blast waves) and for the player to go on a quest to discover how to seal the breaches.

[Ieldra]

I think BW wouldn't dare make Synthesis the canon ending, simply because the majority of fans strongly opposes it. This way they'd isolate the majority of their fans in favor of a select few. I'm absolutely no fan of synthesis myself, simply because of all the overwhelming fridge horror involved and the lack of a clear reason to pick it over High EMS destroy.

It's more likely, that if BW makes a clear, linear sequel, that the entire ending choice will be brushed over completely.

That would guarantee widespread criticism that our choice didn't matter, and legitimately this time. I think the only way to deal with this trilemma without making a statement about ME3's ending is to retcon the story and basically restart in a parallel universe where things went in a completely different direction.

 

A more obvious method would be to hide the effects: The Reapers are gone. If Control, they went away and the Shepalyst exists somewhere and guides cvilization with a hidden hand. If Destroy, they're really gone. If Synthesis, the green eyes effect was temporary and the Reapers left after having helped with rebuilding. Nonetheless, Synthesis would have more noticeable effects on everyone and couldn't be incorporated in such a scenario without drastically cheapening the choice.

 

Anway, any sequel will have to win me over on its own terms. The ME team has squandered all the credit it may have once had with me, and not primarily because of the ending, although what I call "descent into mysticism" certainly didn't help. ME1 promised a reasonably grounded SF story, at least by the standards of the medium. Where does it end? With "organic energy".  I've read so much SF over the years that I'm hard to impress in either direction, but that literally left me speechless (and all the more determined to create a comprehensible scenario in spite of the nonsense).  

 

@HYR 2.0:

Nice read. I may incorporate parts of that into my vision.

[JeffZero]

Well that's fine, you don't have to pick destroy. I always pick it because by this point in the story, the Geth are already dead and I don't care enough about EDI to sacrifice Shep.

That *definitely* alters the playing field, I would agree. The geth don't die on my files and EDI might be my favorite character; huge switch-ups there.

[JeffZero]

@Crono:
I'd totally be cool with that, but I'm almost infamously passive about a lot of things BioWare.

[Obadiah]

In a couple of the EC post synthesis images, we see the circuit board effect on Turian and Krogan armor and clothes. Do you think the green synthesis circuit board effect extend out from living beings and interacts with or incorporates inanimate matter?

[ImaginaryMatter]

In a couple of the EC post synthesis images, we see the circuit board effect on Turian and Krogan armor and clothes. Do you think the green synthesis circuit board effect extend out from living beings and interacts with or incorporates inanimate matter?

 

It wouldn't surprise me. The wave does effect AIs' hardware so unless the green wave can differentiate between sentient and normal inorganic matter (which honestly wouldn't surprise me at this point) it does make sense for everything to be green.

[Obadiah]

How do you think access to all those defeated cultures through the Reapers will affect the current surviving populations? People could now encounter their avatars in a mental cyberspace, as simulation VIs, or their culture and philosophy through their writings stored in the Reapers. I'm thinking of the diversity in just human history of different societies, and how we react to different behaviors and views we encounter - incorporating some values and abhorring others.

 

In Synthesis we're already going to incorporate the perspectives of complete logic into our own, how will we react to civilizations that have been separated from us by eons? What kinds of wildly divergent perspectives out there could exist that we might encounter?

[Ieldra]

In a couple of the EC post synthesis images, we see the circuit board effect on Turian and Krogan armor and clothes. Do you think the green synthesis circuit board effect extend out from living beings and interacts with or incorporates inanimate matter?

I think that was a technical art failure. A bug, if you want. Perhaps it was too difficult to put the overlay on the skin only. Anyway, I've never seriously considered anything else.

[Ieldra]

How do you think access to all those defeated cultures through the Reapers will affect the current surviving populations? People could now encounter their avatars in a mental cyberspace, as simulation VIs, or their culture and philosophy through their writings stored in the Reapers. I'm thinking of the diversity in just human history of different societies, and how we react to different behaviors and views we encounter - incorporating some values and abhorring others.
 
In Synthesis we're already going to incorporate the perspectives of complete logic into our own, how will we react to civilizations that have been separated from us by eons? What kinds of wildly divergent perspectives out there could exist that we might encounter?

Fascinating things to think about, aren't they? Given that we have trouble imagining a truly alien civilization in the first place, it's hard to say how we would react to it. What we can say is that it will be a challenge to all our preconceptions, our beliefs and the underlying assumptions of our lives we never question. And that's one reason why I find Synthesis fascinating.

[SwobyJ]

It's all virtual.

 

 

 

 

 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I think that was a technical art failure. A bug, if you want. Perhaps it was too difficult to put the overlay on the skin only. Anyway, I've never seriously considered anything else.

 

To me, it feels like either the art department was confused about what they were dealing with, or implementing the design on the whole character rather than only skin was easier for them to do (artists are lazy). Sorry if this answer feels like a cop-out, but that's my impression of the design. Just has the "rule of cool" feel to it, like many other things in this series.

[Obadiah]

The Korgan got it the weirdest. In the triumph movie they have the circuit board on their armor but clear skin:


 
Then in the epilogue slide it is the opposite:

[von uber]

Always reminds me of this:

 

[Bob from Accounting]

It's really stupid. There's no way around it.

 

But the developers needed to show the players that Synthesis has some sort of effect.

[Obadiah]

Fascinating things to think about, aren't they? Given that we have trouble imagining a truly alien civilization in the first place, it's hard to say how we would react to it. What we can say is that it will be a challenge to all our preconceptions, our beliefs and the underlying assumptions of our lives we never question. And that's one reason why I find Synthesis fascinating.

What's really interesting about these cultures within a single Reaper is that these would represent the ones that managed to succeed in forming some sort of complete pan-galactic civilization, not just individual factions that merely joined. It would be examples of cultures that actually did it, overcoming their differences through some form of cooperation, compromise, or domination. We've got 2 other examples besides the current cycle's Council - the Prothean's and the Leviathan's. Both of those united the galaxy under a form of domination, and with the Council, even just those three seem completely at odds with each other.

I hope Bioware tries to imagine some of that in the next game. It would be interesting to see how, exposed to some of these new ideas, this cycle tries to incorporate them.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

What's really interesting about these cultures within a single Reaper is that these would represent the ones that managed to succeed in forming some sort of complete pan-galactic civilization, not just individual factions that merely joined. It would be examples of cultures that actually did it, overcoming their differences through some form of cooperation, compromise, or domination. We've got 2 other examples besides the current cycle's Council - the Prothean's and the Leviathan's. Both of those united the galaxy under a form of domination, and with the Council, even just those three seem completely at odds with each other.

I hope Bioware tries to imagine some of that in the next game. It would be interesting to see how, exposed to some of these new ideas, this cycle tries to incorporate them.

But the Reapers only made one capital ship out of a selected species each cycle. That's codex. So each Reaper is not a representation of a pan-galactic civilization. It is an individual faction within the galaxy that was supposed to be the most suitable for the capital reaper. The purpose of it was to see if it was going to be suitable for vacuuming up the dark energy generated by the mass relays and the rest of galactic civilization usage of element zero. So they wiped out the entire galaxy each time just to make sure, and made destroyers and troop transports out of the other civilizations. When they left to return to dark space they left their husks behind to die. 

 

Since wiping out the entire galaxy to do this made no sense, Bioware abandoned this plot. Why wipe out the entire galaxy when you only need one species unless you're just doing it for lolz? See, they tried to build that human reaper and Shepard messed it up. We might not even have seen the harvest had they been successful. Dark Energy problem solved. They had to change it otherwise you could simply exchange greater Shanghai and the greater New York Metropolitan area for galactic peace. So it became synthetics. They attacked us with synthetics to kill us before we created a bunch of synthetics that were going to kill us. Yo dawg!

 

So you're wrong about this. These do not represent pan-galactic cultures. There never was a Prothean Reaper either. That one failed. That was why we had the Collectors. So tip-toe through the plot holes....

 

And yes, the concept of synthesis is a fascinating one. The way Ieldra wrote up the compendium is great. Much more thought went into that than went into the ending I can tell you that. A ton more. I think the amount of thought Bioware writers actually put into the original ending amounted to the amount of thought that went into ordering Mac and Casey's pizza that fateful night. Quite honestly, given the mess they started with there wasn't much to do.

[Obadiah]

Hmm, you're right.

But the Codex says the Capital ships come from 1 species, and Destroyers come from other species not used to make the Capital ships, so there's a good chance we'd can see what the culture was like given the information from all ships from a particular cycle. However, even if there was only 1 species harvested to make 1 ship from a cycle, that species would still be the product of the collective influences of the cycle, (as humans are influenced by the different species they have come into contact with), and would be representative of the galactic society. We could still find out about the other cycles from them.