What information is it exactly that fans have presented that makes Synthesis so "fascinating"?
I really haven't seen a thing that's gone beyond what BioWare has done. That is, a vaguely happy society based technology and unity with no real context as to what, why and how.
A question. Can anyone here tell me what Synthesis actually is? The kind of society it actually creates? Their 'head-canon' or otherwise?
That really doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Bob from Accounting, did you read The Synthesis Compendium? There's some interesting interpretations of synthesis in there.
But really, Bioware left no context for anything in the ending. In reality this is across the board. Miracles happen in all of the endings. The destruction of technology gets handwaved and everything gets rebuilt in the slides within what looks like a few months. Even Rannoch gets fully rebuilt to its former glory! Jacob doesn't have any gray hair. Major Coates looks young and healthy. There can be lots of Krogan. It can be this way in all of the endings.
All the endings are virtually the same except for the color of the explosions on your screen. But now... you can 1) take a gasp and have your LI hold the plaque (unless it's an ME2 LI; 2) watch over the galaxy; 3) or know the secret - the magic of Synthesis is that you can get to see Tali without her mask. It is the only such ending.
The whole 'capital ships come from one species (the alpha species) and destroyers come from the others in each cycle' was such an unnecessary insertion. It serves only to belittle non-human species in the case of background faux logic from the Reapers. Seriously, the story would not have been hurt at all by leaving that factoid out, and is enhanced none whatsoever by leaving it in.
As far as synthesis goes, I can't stand it. None of the ending(s) make sense as far as I am concerned, but Synthesis is the worst of them by far, with maybe the exception of Refusal, which is just to insult players (always a stellar idea).
Synthesis sounds interesting at some points, but organics and synthetics should get this kind of evolution done by their own. Using the Crucible and then claiming that everyone is capable of understanding each other sounds hypocritical. Giving all life one kind of DNA sounds weird as hell. No genetic diversity anymore, count me out and decadence ahoy. Despite that, organics and synthetics have to learn to accept each other by their own, otherwise they gonna make the same mistakes like in the past. To be honest, I never really liked the way how synthesis is done in Mass Effect 3, because it is not right to force people to do or accept something. You should still have a choice, but there is no choice given in Mass Effect 3...
As I've repeatedly claimed, the "new...DNA" is a metaphor. It doesn't make sense to give Synthetics organic genes. Also, even it did mean that now all life was based on DNA, well, all life on Earth is based on DNA and it's pretty diverse. The way information is encoded says nothing about diversity, the information encoded does.Synthesis sounds interesting at some points, but organics and synthetics should get this kind of evolution done by their own. Using the Crucible and then claiming that everyone is capable of understanding each other sounds hypocritical. Giving all life one kind of DNA sounds weird as hell. No genetic diversity anymore, count me out and decadence ahoy. Despite that, organics and synthetics have to learn to accept each other by their own, otherwise they gonna make the same mistakes like in the past. To be honest, I never really liked the way how synthesis is done in Mass Effect 3, because it is not right to force people to do or accept something. You should still have a choice, but there is no choice given in Mass Effect 3...
What information is it exactly that fans have presented that makes Synthesis so "fascinating"?
I really haven't seen a thing that's gone beyond what BioWare has done. That is, a vaguely happy society based technology and unity with no real context as to what, why and how.
A question. Can anyone here tell me what Synthesis actually is? The kind of society it actually creates? Their 'head-canon' or otherwise?
My current hypothesis that I have to settle for headcanon, at least for now:
-Shepard modified the creation of a new, final Reaper with his decision.
-Shepard was harmed by a 'degenerative condition', and that is indoctrination. However, what many ITers see as Indoc in scenes, is instead at least partially the interface with this Reaper and deciding the fate of it. This includes even scenes with the 'boy' and the 'Reaper Destroyer'.
-The Intelligence is actually what we/Saren called Sovereign, uploading itself into the Citadel. Its arrogant sounding words on Virmire turn out to be more neutral (as it was pure AI inside a 'Reaper' form), and it waits and sees what this cycle (as well as Harbinger) can accomplish.
-ME3 in particular can be compared to a 'dream'. However, that's not the only thing happening.
-Destroy means that a 'Reaper Destroyer' is created, but the body on the ground is not our Shepard. This 'Shepard' though, uses that Reaper, along with a shutdown of the relays and a possible strike against the Reapers, to Take Back Earth. Later on, this new entity works to destroy Synthetics and free organics, regardless of the situation. (Peace is not as important, safety is not as important)
-Breath Destroy means that a 'Reaper Destroyer' is created, and the body on the ground is close enough to our Shepard (but our Shepard has not 'existed' for a while). Etc etc Take Back Earth
-Control means that a 'Reaper Controller' is created, and the body on the ground is taken over by the Catalyst. Both work more closely together to Take Earth Back. Later on, this new entity works to constrain synthetics and protect organics, regardless of the situation. (Peace is not as important, free will is not as important)
-Synthesis means that a 'Reaper Synthesizer'(?) is created, and the body on the ground is taken up as part of it (sort of). Take Earth Back. Later on, this new entity works to make peace between synthetics and organics, regardless of the situation. (Free will is not as important, safety is not as important)
-In the Extended Cut slides, we're just experiencing the world preserved in a Reaper, of Shepard's hopes and dreams for the future. It exists, but only in another realm. Synthesis was attempted before, but it was always forced onto the Avatar, maybe just as Control or Destroy otherwise are for Low EMS Shepard (actually, even worse than his situation).
-By picking Synthesis fully free willed (indoc only being utilized to open Shepard to any possibilities instead of forcing him into them), and keeping his hope for the galaxy, Shepard makes a Reaper unlike any other. One that does disregard any other context of his situation, in the faith that his action will be the correct one - one that will make the world a better place after he's gone. And to at least some extent, it may. A Reaper imbued with his 'code' will ALWAYS fight for what your Shepard stood for, no matter what stands in its way. We "taught a Reaper how to love".
-As Synthesis is virtual, however, we also lose track of the other aspects of the ending that Extended Cut illuminates. Control is more similar to Synthesis in that it shows that one can live within a realm in a Reaper. Destroy shows that the Reapers have been defeated. My thoughts are that all 3 endings happened at the same time, in their own ways, but our choice of ending changes a lot of aspects of what's to come. We always deal with a Reaper realm, we always have to decide what becomes of it, and we always decide if our Shepard lives or dies.
Not going to explain my sources or much of my reasoning at this point. Let's see if any of it is correct, or if it's entirely false 
It's at least why I can tolerate Synthesis. "It's all virtual code so who cares.", basically.
IMO they put the hints throughout the games.
(excuse the song, ha)
"A new framework. A new.. DNA."
"And we will remember Shepard."
I did read it.
And, as always, you're attacking it to attack it. You're dismissing any PoV that you can't personally see.
As I've repeatedly claimed, the "new...DNA" is a metaphor. It doesn't make sense to give Synthetics organic genes. Also, even it did mean that now all life was based on DNA, well, all life on Earth is based on DNA and it's pretty diverse. The way information is encoded says nothing about diversity, the information encoded does.
Also, consider that the "connectedness" might besomething like everyone speaking the same language. It wouldn't mean everyone is suddenly friends with everyone else, but that a communication barrier is removed.
All in all, there are lots of ways to interpret things in interesting ways. Yes, the aspect of giving everyone some upgrade with no choice about it is troubling, but while still undesirable in principle, it loses some of its sting if what you're given is just analogous to tools you can either use or not.
You know, about the DNA aspect, I was considering the case of the Mass Effect universe. If you take Mother Earth only, you have one DNA, but what about the other races/civilizations? What about their DNA? Having a galactic DNA...hmm...I don't know. Sure it is just imagination and sci-fi, but it is funny and interesting to think about. Despite that, tell me what's the meaning of being organic? Is a human being organic or is a machine organic? You know, humans believe that flesh, blood, emotions, feelings, consciousness, and our soul make us alive and organic. Of course, this is now something very philosophical stuff, but I just wanted to get rid of this thought.
Having a communication barrier removed...hmm, well english is somehow a world language, especially in many situations, e.g. business. However, in local situations things look kinda different. Do you think having one language is good or not? I personally like several languages, e.g. english, russian, german and some other and I don't wanna get rid of them. Just a thought.
"Connectedness", that's an interesting word, but before this can happen, humanity has to learn a lot. Even in case of Mass Effect, I don't know if all races would be ready for and happy with this. It could cause more chaos than doing something good.
In the end, many paths lead to Rome and madness can be a friend of yours if you want to consider the entire picture...
I don't know what you want to say by posting that link, SwobyJ, but that scene is where the nonsense really took off at rocket speed in the ME trilogy. If you want someone's DNA, take a sample. Infinitely easier and much less messy than this. So the main objective of the presented procedure *can't* have been to get genetic material. As the cut version of the dialogue shows, the original idea was that the objective was "destructive analysis", which makes a lot of sense if you want to preserve people's identity (as Legion says, a Reaper being "billions of uploaded minds"). Of the DNA, never more than a sample is needed. Of the brain, every neuron counts.
With this scene, my opinion of ME3's lead writer(s) and story designers as creators of an SF story took a serious plummet. The implementation (rather than the concept which I found interesting) of ME3's ending brought it down to absolute zero. Given that I don't even dislike its actual outcomes and its rationale, that's a rather remarkable accomplishment.
"...swarms of little robots..." "...grey liquid..."
"...genetic material..."
How do you think a Reaper perceives reality?
I'm saying - or rather wondering (because really all I'm stating is a shot in the dark at this point) - that the whole 'genetic material' aspect is just to make a Reaper a bio-mechanical construct instead of a fully mechanical one. What would be more important is the possible use of nanotechnology in transfering organic thoughts into a synthetic collective mind.
The DNA provides the structure. Something that Harbinger is performing tests on. But the 'brain' could provide the informational content of the Reaper. IMO what we're given are small hints to this, throughout the trilogy, but not enough to have it the focus of the plot.
One of those hints would be a hub of the geth being compared to a city.
Or Leviathan describing its simulations to be made of the subject's memories, giving voice to their words.
I compared the circuitry on images in the Geth Consensus for a reason. The circuitry is nearly identical to what we see on plants, armor/clothing, faces, of people in the Synthesis ending. There are slight visual differences, the biggest one being the color.
Overlord DLC helps us out a bit here. When affected by the corrupted code, Shepard is able to visualize a whole other realm of his situation. The area becomes an overlay of red and green circuitry, to greater illustrate how David/geth see the world and memory itself. The difference for us/Shepard, is that we're viewing it all from an 'organic POV'.
http://youtu.be/N4QkfPjJL4Y?t=1m42s
http://youtu.be/gFvw7WRnrVU?t=3m34s
http://youtu.be/N4QkfPjJL4Y?t=4m17s
@VaLkyR_Anubis:
There is no "one DNA" or "several DNAs". DNA is a chemical compound, and the only thing that can be different between two different worlds that use it is the encoded information and the way it's interpreted. As for the latter, in the ME universe, the point is repeatedly made that all organic species have genes encoded in DNA and that it's interpreted in similar ways, to the point that one of the most meaningful *chemical* difference between species is the chirality of the encoded proteins, an aspect that's rather insignificant as a difference.
As I see it, the "new DNA" expression was originally meant to convey that post-Synthesis, organic and synthetic life would be changed to have biochemically compatible ways to encode information. Since synthetics and organics are based on mutually exclusive design principles, that's a rather hard sell without a lot of additional exposition, and to think the result could be anything like a "DNA analogue" is ludicrous. Also, I have no idea of the convoluted paths of the writers' thoughts in this, but biochemistry is rather irrelevant when the problem is understanding and co-existence. Yet again, the information encoded would matter a lot more than how it is encoded.
What makes an organic being? I think the only way you can see one domain of life as special is through metaphysical beliefs, things like belief in a soul or something, a fact that ME3 not only acknowledges but actually forces into the story as highly suggetively factual with no regard of what a player (or Engineer Adams) might believe - to my extreme annoyance. As I see it, we're all the emergent result of a very complex chemistry. Synthetics and organics are based on different design principles, but that's all.
About diversity, I could write long treatises on how people actually don't value certain kinds of diversity (the violence of the ending debates being rather indicative of that, don't you think?), so before we're going into that, you'd have to explain which kind of diversity you value and why.
As for the outcome of Synthesis, no, I don't think everyone would be happy with it. Still, since I think of it as being gifted a toolset, where if and how you use it is your choice, I find it an acceptable decision to make.
Yeah, "one DNA" sounded kinda weird, but as far as I can tell, DNA and it's diversity is beautiful. However, in reality and in Mass Effect we know that life bases on DNA, but does life really require DNA or not?
I mean, machines kinda live too, just a different way, but once they can develop, you can imagine where this is going. Despite that, this thought is not that unrealistic, because science is already working on machines, which don't need human control. Sure, these machines have programmned parameters, but maybe things change and then suddenly they are aware of their doing. You know, some people are pretty fast at claiming stuff, e.g. time travelling or hyperspace and other things will never be possible, it is all just sci-fi. But perhaps someday humanity has reached a point of evolution and intelligence and then impossible things are possible. We humans are masters of creation and maybe an upgrade like in Mass Effect would make us perfect, but then life would also be boring.
DNA here and there, sure, but I'm not sure if life really requires a DNA or something else what we have learned or believe in. It's just hard to say...
Organic life is beautiful, that's for sure, but some people can't appreciate the gift of being organic. Despite that organic beings have more fun at ruining each other life's than working together for something higher. What really matters in life, which also is not that well expressed in Mass Effect 3, are things which cannot be bought with money or anything else.
I chose "Synthesis" only one time and I didn't like it that much, because I was even more confused. Most of the time, I chose "Destruction" (<- funny to call it that, because only Reapers, Geth and Mass Relays get destroyed) and this ending is still not satisfying to me. Synthesis reminds me of the idea what Saren wanted to do, combining both organic and synthetic, but if you ask me, both kinds of life should be unique, BUT they should tolerate each other.
The EC doesn't appear to have been presented to give a detailed context of the society that rebuilds after the Reaper War. It's purpose was mostly just to show that the war has ended, civilization didn't fall apart, and people, along with all of our companions, carried on with their lives.
Exactly. More detailes on the matter require a new story, not just an extended epilogue. There are too many things to tell about.
Anyone else watching the BBC show Orphan Black? I've been trying get back into it recently and there's this visionary scientist(you may know him as Taggart from "Eureka") who talks a lot about Neolution which reminds me of Synthesis. They both share concept of Directed Evolution.
Don't really have a follow up to that, just thought it was a nice reference to support Synthesis.
Modifié par JedTed, 21 avril 2014 - 06:34 .
Anyone else watching the BBC show Orphan Black? I've been trying get back into it recently and there's this visionary scientist(you may know him as Taggart from "Eureka") who talks a lot about Neolution which reminds me of Synthesis. They both share concept of Directed Evolution.
Don't really have a follow up to that, just thought it was a nice reference to support Synthesis.
The Dyad Institute is hardly an endorsement of Synthesis.
Any more than the Proletheans are an endorsement fro Destroy
The Dyad Institute is hardly an endorsement of Synthesis.
It's the same basic idea though, is it not? Synthesis is the seamless integration of cybernetics with human(organic) biochemistry.
It's the same basic idea though, is it not? Synthesis is the seamless integration of cybernetics with human(organic) biochemistry.
Except they are a far cry from even the forced, Stepford-style "everyone is happy" manner of the Syntehsis we got in ME3. They are Cerberus-level unethical in their use of it.
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