9087 réponses à ce sujet

[Kel Riever]

No, the ending(s) still make NO sense.  Nothing changed since the day the EC came out, or any of the DLCs, so time doesn't add explanation.  It simply loses its memory of the experience, which is still so atrocious. 

 

Here, none of the ending(s) matter because Glowjob makes no sense whatsoever.  So it really doesn't matter how many blanks people want to personally fill (which doesn't make you imaginative, by the way, it makes you doing the job that BioWare failed to do), those blanks are the failure of the story and having any choice that mattered.  This thread is about Synthesis, the color that mattered least.  But none of the colors matter.

 

I still love that selection wheel when Glowjob starts talking.  Doesn't matter what you pick at all....

[Farangbaa]

God forbid you have to think about something. The blasphemy!

[Reorte]

God forbid you have to think about something. The blasphemy!

Thinking about things is good. Some parts of Mass Effect made me think about things, mostly issues revolving around the geth and how opinion / responsibility / morality applies to such a being. Those were good. Trying to make sense of things that the writers clearly hadn't thought through and trying to somehow bodge in a sensible explanation though is a long, long way from that. Filling in the gaps needed to turn a bare bones structure into a properly fleshed-out story isn't being clever either, it's just doing the author's job for them.

[Iakus]

God forbid you have to think about something. The blasphemy!

 

I think it is nonsense.

 

I think this "problem" is little more than a hypothetical "What if" and not the looming threat the Catalyst makes it out to be

 

I think "organic energy" is a buzzowrd for "space magic"

 

I think Synthesis (and the other choices) are endings for a different game than Mass Effect

 

I think  certain somebodies' psuedointellectual musings got in the way of actually finshing the game

 

What do you think of that?

[Obadiah]

God forbid you have to think about something. The blasphemy!

That's actually what I like most about the game. Each playthrough I always find something new to consider with respect to the story. I'm really glad they made the trilogy.

Some players can be less than constructive about that sort of thing.

[jtav]

Here's my take.

The ending is atrociously written, with neither the Catalyst, the problem, or the solution, grounded in the story. I do like that there's no winning scenario and that this is a choice among ideologies. I like the epilogues. I like the tone shift. I like that a certain class of player was angered. But the ending was still a mess.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I think it is nonsense.

 

I think this "problem" is little more than a hypothetical "What if" and not the looming threat the Catalyst makes it out to be

 

I think "organic energy" is a buzzowrd for "space magic"

 

I think Synthesis (and the other choices) are endings for a different game than Mass Effect

 

I think  certain somebodies' psuedointellectual musings got in the way of actually finshing the game

 

What do you think of that?

 

I think it's nonsense, but I think you're reasonings as to why it's nonsense are also... nonsense.

 

I think the problem exists as much as the Catalyst says it does. However, it's problem is not my problem right now. It has made its problem into my problem. I think your reasoning for dismissing the problem is in itself a problem.

 

I think the same. That's nonsensical and poorly used imitation of science for the sake of art. Bad art.

 

I think the context behind the choices and the thematic narrative for it are a divorced concept of the game. I think two of the choices themselves are perfectly fitting for Mass Effect, and I find your denial of those choices as petulant anger at not getting your way.

 

Of course they did. That's how games tend to end up. Not that I'm supporting what we got by any means (far from it), but you'd hate my idea's just as bad since they'd be a complete deconstruction and outright decrial of your heroic themes and imagery and ideals. I'd have the bad guy win. You'd be the bad guy from the start. 

 

I think the endings are bad. I think your reasons for thinking the ending is bad are bad. That's what I think.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Here's my take.

The ending is atrociously written, with neither the Catalyst, the problem, or the solution, grounded in the story. I do like that there's no winning scenario and that this is a choice among ideologies. I like the epilogues. I like the tone shift. I like that a certain class of player was angered. But the ending was still a mess.

 

Ditto. I don't actually mind seeing the paragon good-guys ending up happy. I'm fine seeing them lose. If it were up to me, they'd always lose. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Here's my take.

The ending is atrociously written, with neither the Catalyst, the problem, or the solution, grounded in the story. I do like that there's no winning scenario and that this is a choice among ideologies. I like the epilogues. I like the tone shift. I like that a certain class of player was angered. But the ending was still a mess.

 

To me, the problem is just a reflection of the galaxy's struggle against the Reapers.

 

Javik says something to this effect outright (on the Reapers): ~ we discovered synthetics had surpassed us long ago.

 

The Catalyst/Reapers, whether they realize it or not, are the apex-AI achievement that took place long ago and has spilled over to other civilizations ever since. How you deal with the hypothetical problem = how you deal with the immediate, literal problem. You fear synthetics too powerful and numerous? You pick Destroy. You want to regulate the ascent of synthetics? You take Control. You embrace the ascent of synthetics? You choose Sync. (Your priorities are backwards? You Refuse.)

 

It's not clearly spelled out, but left for players to see the parallels (Jack's pet varren comes to mind).

[CronoDragoon]

Saying AI will kill us all is no better than saying any and all alien life forms will do their utmost to kill us all.

 

They are completely different statements, though. It's not a blanket statement to posit a single event stretching out into the future. In such a prediction only one race need be hostile. You could have 2948203 friendly AI races and one that decides to and succeeds in killing organic life, and the Catalyst will be right. That's why it's infuriating to argue against his position. You can't prove him wrong, and he prevents himself from being proven right.

 

The blanket statement he makes is that all created rebel against their creators, but this is a different statement than the one above.

[Mcfly616]

Makes sense....

[Iakus]

They are completely different statements, though. It's not a blanket statement to posit a single event stretching out into the future. In such a prediction only one race need be hostile. You could have 2948203 friendly AI races and one that decides to and succeeds in killing organic life, and the Catalyst will be right. That's why it's infuriating to argue against his position. You can't prove him wrong, and he prevents himself from being proven right.

 

The blanket statement he makes is that all created rebel against their creators, but this is a different statement than the one above.

 

Saying something could happen is not a blanket statement.  But the Catalyst is saying something will happen, which is.

[Iakus]

 

I think the endings are bad. I think your reasons for thinking the ending is bad are bad. That's what I think.

 

Well, as I've noted before, that we can take two completely separate paths and come to the same conclusion is pretty telling about the endings in general.

 

And while I may hate your  ideas, I doubt I'd be overly disgusted by them being in a game as I highly doubt I'd get invested in such a game to begin with 

[Iakus]

Here's my take.

The ending is atrociously written, with neither the Catalyst, the problem, or the solution, grounded in the story. I do like that there's no winning scenario and that this is a choice among ideologies. I like the epilogues. I like the tone shift. I like that a certain class of player was angered. But the ending was still a mess.

 

As one of the class of player that was angered by the ending, I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree about the tone shift, etc.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Here's my take.

The ending is atrociously written, with neither the Catalyst, the problem, or the solution, grounded in the story. I do like that there's no winning scenario and that this is a choice among ideologies. I like the epilogues. I like the tone shift. I like that a certain class of player was angered. But the ending was still a mess.

 

I didn't really LIKE that a certain class of player was angered. The ending of ME3 didn't leave me angered. I wasn't playing a paragon. I knew in all likelihood that Shepard was going to die. The fact that Shepard survived in my ending was a surprise. Yet, I still felt WTF? I thought I did something wrong. I reloaded and played synthesis. I still felt the same afterward. Nothing. I hated the starbrat. It was more of "I waited five years for this?" Oh well, at least there's multi-player.

[wolfhowwl]

Here's my take.

The ending is atrociously written, with neither the Catalyst, the problem, or the solution, grounded in the story. I do like that there's no winning scenario and that this is a choice among ideologies. I like the epilogues. I like the tone shift. I like that a certain class of player was angered. But the ending was still a mess.

What do you mean by a certain class of player?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

What do you mean by a certain class of player?

 

If I had to guess, the bleeding-heart paragons who think they can get out of any bad or negative consequences by mindlessly spamming the upper-left blue dialogue option.

[wolfhowwl]

And perhaps people upset that the

Spoiler

power fantasy

had hit a limit?

[Jorji Costava]

And perhaps people upset that the

Spoiler

power fantasy

had hit a limit?

 

Honestly, I thought the end was intended to be a continuation of the power fantasy, if anything. A godlike being reveals to you the mysteries of the universe and judges you worthy of making the Ultimate Big Decision that will have galaxy-shaping consequences. When you include an epilogue sequence that refers to the PC as "The Shepard," you're not exactly trying to bring the player back down to earth.

[DeinonSlayer]

"The Shepard"

*cringes*

I'd say we were kissing dirt already by the time we get to that scene; the post-credits DLC ad was the comedically-oversized mallet pounding us into the ground.

EDIT: On a wholly unrelated note, I just googled "hammerspace gif" and found this.



...Samara should have done this at some point.

[CosmicGnosis]

To me, the problem is just a reflection of the galaxy's struggle against the Reapers.

 

Javik says something to this effect outright (on the Reapers): ~ we discovered synthetics had surpassed us long ago.

 

This is a very important line from Javik. He cites the existence of the Reapers as evidence that synthetics had surpassed organics long ago. This is what people often don't realize. The mere existence of the Reapers means that there is already a synthetic intelligence that has far surpassed organic life. We are just "lucky" that this particular synthetic intelligence wants to "save" organic life, not outright destroy it. Hell, even outright ignoring organic life essentially dooms organics to irrelevancy.

 

As hard as this may be for people to swallow, I find it rather intriguing that the only reason that organic life still exists in any meaningful way is because of the Catalyst's intervention. Now, why do I like the thought? Because it forces us into a very uncomfortable place. It forces us to think on scales that we aren't used to, to consider the pointlessness of our individual existence. The Catalyst doesn't care about individuals, but it "cares" about life on the grandest scale. Mass Effect 3's ending forces us to consider our petty existence in the grand scheme of things. Interestingly, Shepard is not a petty existence because he/she makes the most important decision of the last one billion years, and will likely be remembered for all time.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

*cringes*

I'd say we were kissing dirt already by the time we get to that scene; the post-credits DLC ad was the comedically-oversized mallet pounding us into the ground.

EDIT: On a wholly unrelated note, I just googled "hammerspace gif" and found this.



...Samara should have done this at some point.

 

I suppose I'm the only person that doesn't mind my Shepard becoming 'the Shepard'. Though I like 'the Commander' better.

 

For all intents and purposes, he's revered as a physical god in the galaxy. 

[DeinonSlayer]

I'm curious, Massively, why you don't choose Control and headcanon that Shepard has himself cloned.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I'm replaying ME1. There was more of a transhuman theme in ME1 than I remembered. It's like Mac completely forgot about it. I posted that it was proceeding naturally, and now with the reapers in the ending... it was once again... forced.

 

"We have tried but it has always failed. It is not something that can be... forced."

[Iakus]

I'm replaying ME1. There was more of a transhuman theme in ME1 than I remembered. It's like Mac completely forgot about it. I posted that it was proceeding naturally, and now with the reapers in the ending... it was once again... forced.

 

"We have tried but it has always failed. It is not something that can be... forced."

 

 

Shepard:  "Then i guess I'll have to leap into the green beam and force it on the galaxy myself"

 

Wait...