9087 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

I'm going to regret responding seriously, but what the heck, maybe it'll be fodder for those debating in good faith.The ME-verse revolves around Shepard, with it sometimes seeming solely like problems exist so she can solve them. It is a world where science and political prowess is not held in high regard, where the civilians (and the non-Shep associated military) is shortsighted or evil. It is in short, not a very pleasant place for someone like me. Synthesis is in some way, the opposite, with a techno;ogical and cultural flourishing even among cultures previously written off as brutish. And as a person struggling with a disability, those maskless quarians have a special resonance.

Flashback. I remember Auld Wulf claiming to be disabled and anyone who didn't choose Synthesis hated disabled people.

I guess there would be some draw to curing such things with the push of a button, but even in Synthesis Joker is still limping.

And this is why I dislike any of the endings.
 
I have faith that the galaxy could grow and change if it wasn't so stagnated on tech that's been essentially handed to them by the relays and "Prothean artifacts".  I think this technological and cultural flourishing could come about without forcible gene therapy of the entire galaxy, but if the Reapers simply backed off and let the galaxy think on their own.

This is why I choose Destroy. If we're destined to destroy ourselves, that's on our heads. We own our achievements and our failures. We own our actions, and sink or swim we don't need some self-appointed god "protecting" us from their consequences.

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

Reported.

Cheers. Here, report this one as well, if it makes you feel better.

I'm going to regret responding seriously, but what the heck, maybe it'll be fodder for those debating in good faith.The ME-verse revolves around Shepard, with it sometimes seeming solely like problems exist so she can solve them. It is a world where science and political prowess is not held in high regard, where the civilians (and the non-Shep associated military) is shortsighted or evil. It is in short, not a very pleasant place for someone like me. Synthesis is in some way, the opposite, with a techno;ogical and cultural flourishing even among cultures previously written off as brutish. And as a person struggling with a disability, those maskless quarians have a special resonance.

So it would be fair to say that you don't have a favourable opinion on the ME-verse, then, correct? And you chose the green peace borg mindwipe dna space magic, is that right?

If so, then it is incredibly fitting. Basically, synthesis is incredibly evil, unless you either don't care, do it for the evulz or have this negative view of people, considering them evil or fallible (one of the above posts on free will being dangerous).

So yeah, synthesis. Reaper victory. See what I mean?

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

And this is why I dislike any of the endings.
 
I have faith that the galaxy could grow and change if it wasn't so stagnated on tech that's been essentially handed to them by the relays and "Prothean artifacts".  I think this technological and cultural flourishing could come about without forcible gene therapy of the entire galaxy, but if the Reapers simply backed off and let the galaxy think on their own.

I dislike them all as well, dislike being a very mild word, but synthesis is just so mindbogglingly horryfyingly craptastically stupifyingly evil that it deserves a special mention.

[jtav]

Flashback. I remember Auld Wulf claiming to be disabled and anyone who didn't choose Synthesis hated disabled people.

I guess there would be some draw to curing such things with the push of a button, but even in Synthesis Joker is still limping.

Well, I can't give you my medical records, but I also think most people make their ending choices in good faith. I don't think Synth is a magic cure, but it may allow tech to be a perfect replacement, rather than the kludge it is now. For example, I can't bend because of a rod in my spine. A Synthesized person may be able to have that function restored. Or dictation programs stop mishearing the user. And so on.

[Iakus]

I dislike them all as well, dislike being a very mild word, but synthesis is just so mindbogglingly horryfyingly craptastically stupifyingly evil that it deserves a special mention.

All the endings are horrifying to me, .  Each for different reasons.

 

Syntheis is simply the most dissonant of the three.  And thus the easiest target.

 

But as the saying goes:  Don't hate the player, hate the game 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Yeah, Mr. Alenko's time here is going to be getting shorter. He's a flamer.

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

Yeah, Mr. Alenko's time here is going to be getting shorter. He's a flamer.

Hey, I wasn't the one who said that robbing people of free will is a valid concept because they misuse it. Quite an evil view, if I may say so.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Hey, I wasn't the one who said that robbing people of free will is a valid concept because they misuse it. Quite an evil view, if I may say so.

 

Saying something is evil isn't going to get you very far with Massively.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Hey, I wasn't the one who said that robbing people of free will is a valid concept because they misuse it. Quite an evil view, if I may say so.

 

You can try, but I'm not going out and attacking people either over there views as you do.

 

This isn't about people's views. This is about your conduct on the forum.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Saying something is evil isn't going to get you very far with Massively.

 

Especially since I can say why I believe the opposite is 'evil'.

 

What is evil anyway? Who's judgement is more correct? Why do we limit ourselves and our actions based on terms of good and evil? I'm not pitching these as my views. I'm just pitching them to pitch them.

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

Especially since I can say why I believe the opposite is 'evil'.
 
What is evil anyway? Who's judgement is more correct? Why do we limit ourselves and our actions based on terms of good and evil? I'm not pitching these as my views. I'm just pitching them to pitch them.

So it's not about people's views then, is it?

Also, I have no idea what do you mean by "pitching them to pitch them". Is it all right to say free will is detrimental, but it's not all right to connect synthesis with a low opinion on ME universe?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

So it's not about people's views then, is it?

Also, I have no idea what do you mean by "pitching them to pitch them". Is it all right to say free will is detrimental, but it's not all right to connect synthesis with a low opinion on ME universe?

 

It's not alright to attack someone for their views and acting uncivil and obtuse. Which you've been doing.

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

It's not alright to attack someone for their views and acting uncivil and obtuse. Which you've been doing.

And how does asserting that someone hates a fictional universe based on their choices in the said universe constitute an attack?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

And how does asserting that someone hates a fictional universe based on their choices in the said universe constitute an attack?

 

Because you're acting like a smug jerk about it?

[dreamgazer]

And how does asserting that someone hates a fictional universe based on their choices in the said universe constitute an attack?

 

Think again about that, think about the choices you made in ME1 and ME2, and decide whether choosing certain things in either of those constitutes "hating" the universe.  Do you hate the universe for saving the rachni? Do you hate the universe for preserving the Collector base? And so on and so forth. 

[Obadiah]

Actually some of the reactions to Synthesis on this thread lately very much remind me of the movie Transcendence.

Spoiler

In that movie the humans were all afraid of the tremendous power and cult-like following of the intelligence. There was all this talk of the loss of freedom and dangers to humanity (just like in Synthesis). Eventually, when they destroyed ithe intelligence, we discovered it was cleaning the environment and healing the planet. In a similar manner the EC quite clearly shows that these dangers that posters speak of do not come to pass, and that life continues to flourish.

One day we'll be able to have a non-confrontational non-its-the-end-of-the-world-horrible-horrible-terribad discussion about this.

[Ieldra]

@Ieldra
But "atrocious" is such a big word for what appears to be 3 or 4 sentences. The original Synthesis explanation was that Shepard had to add his energy to the Crucible, and that everything that he was would be absorbed and sent out causing a chain reaction to form a new matrix/DNA. This could easily have been understood (as you have explained previously) as a simplified explanation dumbed down for the soldier protagonist to understand, because the science at work is just too advanced. It barely even recognized Shepard as special, other than being the one to reach the room, and still be alive.

Instead each word was taken and analyzed, as if it could be, by real currently understood science, and criticized as ridiculous. How much more could this really have been improved? It is a surprise twist ending, so an obvious buildup is out of the question. Perhaps one or two trans-human or evolutionary conversations prior to establish some groundwork. Maybe remove the plant tech aesthetic. A few different words by the Catalyst to describe Shepard's death. People would still be complaining about themes, broken AI, ridiculous science, and Eugenics etc... because they really just want the enemy to be wrong and destroyed.

Others, perhaps, but not I. You say I'm making too big an issue out of a few sentences, but a few words can make for a drastic difference. Take the scene at the end of ME2, when EDI speculates about the purpose of the station. There is a cut version where this was explained in terms of "destructive analysis" - people are taken apart, preserving the mind which is then uploaded (as explained by Legion) and storing the genetic information. Easy to understand, right? Even if the technology is beyond anything galactic civilization could've come up with, it's hard to do but easy to understand. Well, I don't know why this version was cut, but what we got in the end was the nonsensical "essence of a species" concept. The problem was that this new, vague, wilfully cloudy and mystical "explanation" makes no sense within a scientific paradigma, because a scientific explanation comes across as mysterious and vague only if there is an intrinsic barrier to understanding on the conceptual level, yet what we could infer from other sources was, as explained, hard to do but not so hard to understand. Which means that the new phrasing invoked non-scientific concepts as literal, not just as an allegory for things we aren't equipped to understand.

 

The same wilfully cloudy and mystical phrasing for things that - whatever the truth may be in the end - are conceptually not that hard to understand, appears in the Synthesis exposition, and to a lesser degree in the general exposition of the ending scenario as well. And it has exactly the same effect of invoking the mystical and religious as literal. Which has nothing to do with the actual plot, makes a mockery of all efforts to solve problems until that point and if taken at face value, rewrites the universe in the last 15 minutes of the story in a genre-breaking kind of way. I'd say calling this "atrocious storytelling" is perfectly justified.

[dreamgazer]

One day we'll be able to have a non-confrontational discussion about this.

 

I doubt it, simply because Shepard has to cross a hard philosophical and ethical barrier to get there.

 

By design, it provokes a passionate response. 

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

Because you're acting like a smug jerk about it?

So far, you have managed to call me a flamer (directly) and a smug jerk (indirectly). Anything else?

Think again about that, think about the choices you made in ME1 and ME2, and decide whether choosing certain things in either of those constitutes "hating" the universe.  Do you hate the universe for saving the rachni? Do you hate the universe for preserving the Collector base? And so on and so forth.

I can't fathom anyone choosing the peace borg in good faith.

[Ryriena]

You seem to highly romanticize history.

No just telling the truth my friend.

[78stonewobble]

Actually some of the reactions to Synthesis on this thread lately very much remind me of the movie Transcendence.

Spoiler

In that movie the humans were all afraid of the tremendous power and cult-like following of the intelligence. There was all this talk of the loss of freedom and dangers to humanity (just like in Synthesis). Eventually, when they destroyed ithe intelligence, we discovered it was cleaning the environment and healing the planet. In a similar manner the EC quite clearly shows that these dangers that posters speak of do not come to pass, and that life continues to flourish.

One day we'll be able to have a non-confrontational non-its-the-end-of-the-world-horrible-horrible-terribad discussion about this.

 

Based on the writers not thinking their own stuff through, but sure, lets throw out common sense and accept the bandaid on the logic and the story. -..- ... Sorry, I'm not doing quite enough drugs or huffing enough paint for accepting that.

 

Is it the end of our world? No, nothing has been so far... Is it important anywhere? ... Nope, except maybe here to the place actually dedicated to it. 

 

4 people are born and nearly 2 die every second. Don't know them and I don't care. Besides I couldn't smile or cry fast enough to keep up even if I did care. I might as well care about the me3 ending to pass the time. 

[dreamgazer]

Is it the end of our world? No, nothing has been so far... Is it important anywhere? ... Nope, except maybe here to the place actually dedicated to it. 

 

Just about everyone has moved on with their lives and, evidenced by the comments sections of articles and scattered discussions here, are geared up for the next Mass Effect.  A joke here and there about the ending, of course, but plenty of enthusiasm. 

[Mathias]

All the endings are ridiculous from an academic point of view. A beam of energy strong enough to annihilate near-indestructible beings, but leaves everything else alive, including those squishy organics. Give me a break. (don't try to be a smartass and say it's an EMP. A strong enough EMP will kill organics. Besides, if it was an EMP, the galaxy would just laugh when the Reapers come and kill them)

 

The entire game is ridiculous from an academic point of view. 

 

I agree with the first paragraph, the last sentence not so much. I mean yea there were some crazy things throughout the trilogy, but for the most part they made them work. The ending is where they crossed the line because of how terribly executed it was, and because it didn't even come close to living up to the hype that Bioware themselves have built up since the first game. 

[Obadiah]

@Iedra
Though I can't really disagree with your description of the presentation, I do find it more mysterious than mystical.

Take the example of the end of ME2. Without EDI's exposition we have the genetic material of the colonists used to by the Collectors to create a new Reaper, and then afterwards we get Legion's description of uploaded minds. Some form of destructive analysis is implied, but I assume the writers did not to specify it as such simply because they did not want to tie that specific idea into the lore - to leave the explanation open to... possibilities

Synthesis is far more abstract; however, from its description I think of it as less mystical, and more unexplainable theory and science, the mechanics of which we have yet no inkling. It teases to the power available to the Catalyst and to us if we can overcome the Reaper cycle and inevitable conflict. "Essence" simply means that which is essential to a thing, and that without which a thing is no longer itself. It is a bit mystical, but the concept is not that far fetched, though currently more philosophical than science.

[AlanC9]

I can't fathom anyone choosing the peace borg in good faith.

Have you actually tried to understand, though?