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[Ieldra]

So have we misunderstood the Catalyst's line about being unable to force Synthesis as a solution? Usually we interpret that line as a contradiction to the outcome; it says that Synthesis can't be forced, but it clearly is forced. However, if the Catalyst is not referring directly to Synthesis, but rather the integration of organic and synthetic beings, which is only possible after Synthesis, then the line makes a little more sense. It's not saying that Synthesis can't be forced, it's saying that the seamless integration of organics and synthetics can't be forced. But even then, what does that really mean? Couldn't a synthetic potentially hack an organic's mind?

No, I don't think it is a contradiction. What I took it to mean is this: rather obviously, the physical side of the Synthesis can be forced, but if certain requirements aren't fulfilled, it won't have the desired outcome of making co-existence possible. So, the Synthesis, in the more philosophical, civilization-shaping meaning of the word, actually can't be forced. This makes sense in the context of what I've always believed the physical Synthesis does, namely, providing organics and synthetics with certain upgraded capabilities, but just like any other trait, these can be ignored, or even actively fought, by those who have them. A civilization which is ready for Synthesis is one where a critical mass of minds will utilize the upgraded capabilities, so that the development of this civilization as a whole will be affected to engender co-existence and integration of organic and synthetic systems.

[dreamgazer]

Minor thing, but worth mentioning here: Some EA-licensed artwork is being sold through Walls360, and it includes this slide from the Extended Cut version of Synthesis.



Title of the piece? Utopian.

[Iakus]

No, I don't think it is a contradiction. What I took it to mean is this: rather obviously, the physical side of the Synthesis can be forced, but if certain requirements aren't fulfilled, it won't have the desired outcome of making co-existence possible. So, the Synthesis, in the more philosophical, civilization-shaping meaning of the word, actually can't be forced. This makes sense in the context of what I've always believed the physical Synthesis does, namely, providing organics and synthetics with certain upgraded capabilities, but just like any other trait, these can be ignored, or even actively fought, by those who have them. A civilization which is ready for Synthesis is one where a critical mass of minds will utilize the upgraded capabilities, so that the development of this civilization as a whole will be affected to engender co-existence and integration of organic and synthetic systems.

 

This still sounds incredibly creepy to me, and hearkens back to Sovereign:

 

Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic life. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 ^ You forgot to attach #keepfearalive at the end.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Minor thing, but worth mentioning here: Some EA-licensed artwork is being sold through Walls360, and it includes this slide from the Extended Cut version of Synthesis.



Title of the piece? Utopian.

 

I don't really get why this is something that can only happen in a post-synthesis universe.

 

More shilling of synthesis? Perhaps.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I don't really get why this is something that can only happen in a post-synthesis universe.

 

More shilling of synthesis? Perhaps.

 

Synthesis to me always felt like a happy ending due to writer fiat. Like they had no idea how to explain the concept in game -- or even a clear concept on what it actually meant -- so they just had the Catalyst explain that everything will turn out well if Shepard takes the leap and then... poof! it magically happens.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Synthesis to me always felt like a happy ending due to writer fiat. Like they had no idea how to explain the concept in game -- or even a clear concept on what it actually meant -- so they just had the Catalyst explain that everything will turn out well if Shepard takes the leap and then... poof! it magically happens.

 

For the most part, yeah. To this day, I believe that the writers put the concept in the game to be 'deep' and 'out-there'.

 

I know people here have thought it through, which I can respect to an extent. But the writers clearly didn't think it through, or try to explain it at all.

[Ieldra]

For the most part, yeah. To this day, I believe that the writers put the concept in their to be 'deep' and 'out-there'.

 

I know people here have thought it through, which I can respect to an extent. But the writers clearly didn't think it through, or try to explain it at all.

Indeed, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of "the writers didn't think this through", and given the oddities still extant in the EC, I'd say the lead writer was in over his head and actually had no idea of what he was writing about and the themes he invoked by his writing. Some of the EC writing appears to me as if someone had told him "OK, you should put this and that in here" and he did without understanding it.

[Seival]

Just finished painting new picture dedicated to post-synthesis ME world.

 

Enjoy

 

[RiouHotaru]

This still sounds incredibly creepy to me, and hearkens back to Sovereign:

 

Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic life. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

 

To be fair, the concept of "Synthesis" isn't new by any stretch of the imagination.  Deus Ex and Invisible War both have an ending which implies the use of technology to "connect" everyone in the world together, and yes, it does always tend to sound rather creepy.  And honestly, usually the world that results from such a choice isn't explored in detail (which is why it's used as an ending) because it's difficult for us as humans to imagine such a thing as being possible, or how it would work.

 

Honestly, Synthesis, it's concept or it's application, didn't seem terribly far-fetched or in violation of suspension of disbelief.  I admit, no matter how much the topic is discussed and dissected, I found it perplexing that people took the "forced" line in such a literal context.  People would argue up and down about Destroy's use of "targeted", as somehow being vague enough to assume some synthetics live, but the use of "forced" is taken at face value?

[JeffZero]

Indeed, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of "the writers didn't think this through", and given the oddities still extant in the EC, I'd say the lead writer was in over his head and actually had no idea of what he was writing about and the themes he invoked by his writing. Some of the EC writing appears to me as if someone had told him "OK, you should put this and that in here" and he did without understanding it.

 

I picked it in 2012 because it was gave me the happiest feeling upon completion.

 

I picked it in 2013 because people in this thread actually made me think about it beyond such trappings.

[JasonShepard]

Honestly, Synthesis, it's concept or it's application, didn't seem terribly far-fetched or in violation of suspension of disbelief.  I admit, no matter how much the topic is discussed and dissected, I found it perplexing that people took the "forced" line in such a literal context.  People would argue up and down about Destroy's use of "targeted", as somehow being vague enough to assume some synthetics live, but the use of "forced" is taken at face value?

 

Eh, it's not that strange. People like everything about Destroy except the Geth sacrifice, so they go out of their way to try and loop-hole their way through it (which the EC made subtly easier by the Catalyst's change of dialogue). On the other hand, Synthesis comes out of the left-field and feels like a trick, even if it isn't. And it comes saddled with the violation stuff. So people are more willing to hunt for reasons to reject it.

 

For what it's worth, I err on the side of taking both literally. Destroy wipes out the Geth (and, if you can use it again in the future, you have the Synthetic problem permanently solved), while Synthesis is something that shouldn't be forced - and for some reason the Catalyst seems to believe that if Shepard is willing to accept it, so is the rest of the galaxy. Although I do wonder what the Catalyst means by *forcing* Synthesis, since we've seen it's methodology of force with the Reaper cycles...

[JeffZero]

Jason, I just read your article on why you chose Control. And, while I agree with the comment from DemonStar that I find Synthesis much more emotionally satisfying, I definitely agree with you on numerous levels. I've actually chosen Control for one of my files, which is more than can be said for Destroy or Refuse. Thanks for the good words.

[Display Name Owner]

I don't have a problem with the whole theme of transhumanism as such, to me the worst thing about Synthesis is just how it's applied. Deus Ex HR spent a whole game exploring the theme and why some people might think you should and why others would say you shouldn't and I actually felt somewhat informed making the final decision. Jensen felt like a person who actually had a leg to stand on when choosing what way to go in the end. In ME it's just handled kind of clumsily and it just seems creepy and like Shepard has no right whatsoever imposing it on everyone everywhere.

[Seival]

I don't have a problem with the whole theme of transhumanism as such, to me the worst thing about Synthesis is just how it's applied. Deus Ex HR spent a whole game exploring the theme and why some people might think you should and why others would say you shouldn't and I actually felt somewhat informed making the final decision. Jensen felt like a person who actually had a leg to stand on when choosing what way to go in the end. In ME it's just handled kind of clumsily and it just seems creepy and like Shepard has no right whatsoever imposing it on everyone everywhere.

Yes, Synthesis was a sudden turn of events without any doubts. But like I said long ago, I believe that initially (before the game was even released) devs possibly had plans to expand Synthesis concept in the next ME games and so intentionally tried to pose Synthesis as optimal outcome and a teaser for the next game.

[jtav]

I will eat my proverbial hat if the canonize Synthesis. I expect the future to look very much like Destroy but with synthetics.

[Farangbaa]

To be fair, the concept of "Synthesis" isn't new by any stretch of the imagination.  Deus Ex and Invisible War both have an ending which implies the use of technology to "connect" everyone in the world together, and yes, it does always tend to sound rather creepy.  And honestly, usually the world that results from such a choice isn't explored in detail (which is why it's used as an ending) because it's difficult for us as humans to imagine such a thing as being possible, or how it would work.
 
Honestly, Synthesis, it's concept or it's application, didn't seem terribly far-fetched or in violation of suspension of disbelief.  I admit, no matter how much the topic is discussed and dissected, I found it perplexing that people took the "forced" line in such a literal context.  People would argue up and down about Destroy's use of "targeted", as somehow being vague enough to assume some synthetics live, but the use of "forced" is taken at face value?

It's hilarious regardless. You spend 3 whole games forcing everybody to do stuff, commit genocide, kill the leaders of the galaxy because they won't blindly follow you in your hunt for Giant Mecha Space Cthulhu's and I dunno what other horrible things you can do during the course of the game... but forcing an improvement on everybody, yeah, that's where sh*t gets nasty.

Give me a *&@#*(&@^# break.

[Farangbaa]

I will eat my proverbial hat if the canonize Synthesis. I expect the future to look very much like Destroy but with synthetics.

Which you have to eradicate from the galaxy to beat the game.

[jtav]

Which the writers will retcon. They'll keep the mechanism vague but the Reapers will be gone and synthetics will be present, as will krogan and quarians.

[Ieldra]

I will eat my proverbial hat if the canonize Synthesis. I expect the future to look very much like Destroy but with synthetics.

If they're going to do a sequel at all, that sounds like what I'd expect. As much as I would like seeing a post-Synthesis galaxy in future ME stories, I'm firmly convinced it won't happen.

Also, depending on who's writing the story, it may not be a good idea in the first place. I certainly wouldn't want Mac Walters' pen mangling things because he's attempting to write about things he doesn't understand again.

[JeffZero]

So long as synthetics are around and no character literally utters the line "Shepard chose Destroy" I feel as though I can get behind it and embrace it as a continuation of my choice. In a personal perfect world the people here who have assembled a brilliant vision of a post-Synthesis franchise would be hired on to see it through, but I don't know that there are terribly many things which would come across as giant red (or should I say, green?) flags for much of the fanbase.

[jtav]

Which works out rather well for us, no? Anything stupid/unpleasant happens? "Well *my* universe has Synthesis, therefore it didn't happen..."

 

I may be a bit cynical.

[Iakus]

Which the writers will retcon. They'll keep the mechanism vague but the Reapers will be gone and synthetics will be present, as will krogan and quarians.

"Yes there was a war against the Reapers.  Commander Shepard saved us all.  Now let's never speak of it again"

 

Probably the best that can be hoped for.

[Reorte]

It's hilarious regardless. You spend 3 whole games forcing everybody to do stuff, commit genocide, kill the leaders of the galaxy because they won't blindly follow you in your hunt for Giant Mecha Space Cthulhu's and I dunno what other horrible things you can do during the course of the game... but forcing an improvement on everybody, yeah, that's where sh*t gets nasty.

Give me a *&@#*(&@^# break.

Where's the facepalm picture when you need it?

[Iakus]

Where's the facepalm picture when you need it?

Indeed.  If anything it was my Shepard that was forced to do stuff.

 

I don't recall my Shep ever killing a leader of the galaxy.  Quite the opposite, he saved several of them.  My Shepard actively avoided doing horrible things.  That's a big part of why I hated the endings.