Xandurpein wrote...
If it can be done once, it can be done again. It's ridiculous to assume that the Crucible can only be built once.
Modifié par antares_sublight, 24 mai 2012 - 10:18 .
antares_sublight wrote...
Who even says he's an AI in the first place? All assumptions.
antares_sublight wrote...
That's your right to have willful blissful naivete, you just can't justify it as anything beyond that.
It's not about building the Crucible, it's about teh Catalyst and the Mass Relays, the endings are suppossed to present an exceptional series of events, might the phenomenon be replicated? Experience tells us technology can be replicated, but, can you replicate something like the Citadel/Catalyst?Xandurpein wrote...
I was being generous and said 10 generations, but change to a hundred; that's the time it took us to get from the Roman Empire to Space. We know the Protheans could already build primitive Mass relays and we can reverse engineer things. If it can be done once, it can be done again. It's ridiculous to assume that the Crucible can only be built once.
That's tye hard part, you are forced to make a choice you are fundamentally not prepared to, because if you don't, evey soul in the galaxy will suffer, that's the weight in Shepard's shouldrs.If the Catalyst views things in a way that is impossible to grasp, then why should we even listen to it? If my moral code is too limited to grasp the situatuon isn't that reason enough to not make a choice that affects the whole Galaxy? How can you even claim that something is for the greater good if you can't tie it to a moral code?
Who says he's a VI? What does Shepard become when he selects Control? Who knows...Optimystic_X wrote...
antares_sublight wrote...
Who even says he's an AI in the first place? All assumptions.
If he's a VI, that's even worse, dude. That means he definitely has no motives beyond his programming.
No, both would be assumptions. No one has any idea what has just happened or what the effects will be.Optimystic_X wrote...
antares_sublight wrote...
That's your right to have willful blissful naivete, you just can't justify it as anything beyond that.
So you see clear "New Eden" motifs and immediately think "doom and apocalypse?"
It's assumption of your best wishes and ignoring anything that might be negative, as you plainly stated you are doing. "Reading into" isn't "comprehension".Optimystic_X wrote...
It's not naivete, it's comprehension. Something you are actively throwing out the window.
Heeden wrote...
Do you have an argument against a form of Synthesis that doesn't change the physical bodies people inhabit?
antares_sublight wrote...
Who says he's a VI? What does Shepard become when he selects Control? Who knows...
antares_sublight wrote...
No, both would be assumptions. No one has any idea what has just happened or what the effects will be.
antares_sublight wrote...
It's assumption of your best wishes and ignoring anything that might be negative, as you plainly stated you are doing. "Reading into" isn't "comprehension".
Taboo-XX wrote...
Heeden wrote...
Do you have an argument against a form of Synthesis that doesn't change the physical bodies people inhabit?
Yes. Simply enacting it.
You affect everyone in Synthesis.
Potentially eveyone in Control. You have an unknown. No Dice.
We have an exact number in Destroy. The Geth and EDI.
It's about how many people you violate. You are going to be violating someone at some point.
I will always choose less.
Disgusting, but when you have to make a choice like this I will always choose the result that will affect the least amount of people.
Taboo-XX wrote...
Disgusting, but when you have to make a choice like this I will always choose the result that will affect the least amount of people.
Modifié par Optimystic_X, 24 mai 2012 - 10:37 .
Heeden wrote...
Destroy completely annihilates many beings, each Reaper being the equivalent to a whole civilisation. Synthesis gives people a new perspective, I don't even count it as a violation.
Optimystic_X wrote...
Taboo-XX wrote...
Disgusting, but when you have to make a choice like this I will always choose the result that will affect the least amount of people.
So you would rather murder 100 people than tie up 1000? Because that's what you're saying.
Numbers alone are not the only consideration.
Modifié par Taboo-XX, 24 mai 2012 - 10:50 .
Taboo-XX wrote...
I would rather kill someone that force a change of unknown quantities upon them.
Taboo-XX wrote...
Everything is affected. Depending on your view of what Synthesis does you can make the assumption that killing someone is better forcing them to accept a new perspective in your holy utopia.
Taboo-XX wrote...
You have no idea what Synthesis does.
Taboo-XX wrote...
Heeden wrote...
Destroy completely annihilates many beings, each Reaper being the equivalent to a whole civilisation. Synthesis gives people a new perspective, I don't even count it as a violation.
You assume that the Reaper has any data that can be extracted. Prove to me that you can extract vast amounts of data from thjeir corpses.
Doing anything to people in such a manner without their knowledge or consent is a violation. You cannot do that.
Giving people new perspectives? New. Perspectives?
You force that upon everyone.
Taboo-XX wrote...
Also, Synthesis wouldn't stop new organics from arising because the base elements exist in the Universe and you can't be rid of them.
LOL.
What if they make new Synthetics?
LOL
Taboo-XX wrote...
What happens to Synthesis if it really does rewrite something in the EC?
Does this pipe dream go down the tube?
Taboo-XX wrote...
They do not exist in the Reapers. I have yet to see some sort of information retrieved from paste.
Optimystic_X wrote...
Elements alone do not organics (or synthetics) make. What matters is how they are combined, and THAT is what Synthesis has permanently altered.
For example, say the primordial soups of every world in the galaxy have been seeded with nanites. Nothing will come out of that without being synthesized. And any synthetics those beings create, will be done using hybridized platforms, resulting in more hybrids.
Taboo-XX wrote...
As for the unknown? Yes, I see it as a possibility of a threat. In the vastness of the Universe I'm fairly certain that some form of life exists and it probably isn't very friendly. Stephen Hawking has written essays on this. Do you read those?
The unknown is absolutely terrifying.
Taboo-XX wrote...
Then you have violated the very basic functioning of the Universe. Who the **** has that kind of authority?
Taboo-XX wrote...
You wish to enforce how everything evolves and is created? Do you know who you sound like?
Taboo-XX wrote...
They do not exist in the Reapers. I have yet to see some sort of information retrieved from paste. I am no more a cow when I eat a hamburger than than the human Reaper was a record of our existence.
Forcing any type of emotion upon people is wrong. You sound like the computer from THX 1138.
"Be Happy."
Jesus Christ.
Optimystic_X wrote...
Taboo-XX wrote...
They do not exist in the Reapers. I have yet to see some sort of information retrieved from paste.
Legion explicitly tells you that their minds are uploaded. Minds contain information, by definition.
We just haven't seen it used, because they are under the Catalyst's absolute control.
Optimystic_X wrote...
Taboo-XX wrote...
Then you have violated the very basic functioning of the Universe. Who the **** has that kind of authority?
You keep asking that question. I would have put it to a vote if I could.Taboo-XX wrote...
You wish to enforce how everything evolves and is created? Do you know who you sound like?
...not a mass-murderer?
Heeden wrote...
Taboo-XX wrote...
They do not exist in the Reapers. I have yet to see some sort of information retrieved from paste. I am no more a cow when I eat a hamburger than than the human Reaper was a record of our existence.
Forcing any type of emotion upon people is wrong. You sound like the computer from THX 1138.
"Be Happy."
Jesus Christ.
The Reapers - each one is a consensus like the Geth consisting of unknown numbers of sentient programs. Kill a Reaper, you kill a civilisation. Kill all the Reapers kill many civilisations. You don't examine a body, fail to find any memories and declare they can't have been alive.
And Synthesis doesn't force any emotions on anyone - turning on the lights let's people see but it doesn't cause them to feel a certain way about what they see.
Taboo-XX wrote...]
No, it makes you sound like a hubris laden monster. Destory is far from ethical, but it doesn't change the way the galaxy has functioned for billions of years.
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