9088 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

And that foreseeable data is what I use to believe that Synthetics will not wipe everyone out.

I'm not right.

But I'm not wrong either.

I can live with that.

[Heeden]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Those are my speculations. I do not claim to be correct. Your guess is as good as mine. If he is a singularity, I would have though his unpredictability would have done something a bit better. If he cannot create new data he is in a loop.

Clearly it was the best he could come up with, I'm sure his creators (or the creators of his creators) never predicted the Reaper cycle would come about from tinkering around with thinking-machines.

[Taboo]

At least these discussion are fruitful.

[Vigilant111]

Taboo-XX wrote...

In a game about choice, I find the idea of having Shepard die in every outcome rather disingenuous.

The game is a piece of work by humans, not by a higher being

My guess is, when u wake up from rubble, u will fight the final boss

[Afrolash]

Op: I like the thought process, very well done. Most of it I tend to agree with. The only aspect of it that is puzzling to me is this:

Why would we stop fighting? You think all of a sudden we would just forgive them for killing us? Especially the Krogan the rate they already adapt they are going to use their upgrades to annihilate the Reapers.

[Vigilant111]

clennon8 wrote...

How droll, destroying the Reapers, who have been systematically annihilating advanced civilizations for over a billion years. Anybody could have done that. Only someone "special" would impose his will on every living organism in the galaxy, fundamentally altering them at a DNA level.

I hate getting harsh with destroy option supporters... but the OP is right with respect that pretending humility is useless, even though it is unrealistic that any single individual should dictate life on a biological level (OMG!) in our world, but this is a a totally different universe, he MUST make a decision, ANY decision Shepard makes will affect galaxy as a whole, but to me, the destroy option changes the organics the least on an individual level:) , violates least speech rights

Modifié par Vigilant111, 25 mai 2012 - 01:22 .

[Vigilant111]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't think Shepard dies in Control. It was meant as "he dies an organic being, losing his body, his friends, his possessions, everything that defined his earlier life" - in order to become some kind of AI god.

That's right, different options allows Shepard to survive in different FORMS. I still choose destroy though, flesh and blood, I am an organic... so far, hard not to be "racist" to synthetics:(

Modifié par Vigilant111, 25 mai 2012 - 01:27 .

[Vigilant111]

Creid-X wrote...

One question here, taking the Catalyst's words as face value (bear with me) if what it says is true, and synthesis is the only way to achieve true peace in the Galaxy even if we don't really know the specifics, wouldn't it take the most absolute priority whether it would or not be morally reprehensible?

Think about all thousands civilizations lost to the Reapers, and all the civilizations to be yet born in the Galaxy, if synthesis can guarantee the coexistence of organic and synthetic life wouldn't it override something so feeble and temporary as human morality?

Think that we are changing the whole Galaxy forever here, we can't limit our judgements to the immediate consequences or just the races and individuals living in the galaxy now, we have to think in a broader sacle than that.

Interesting, so much uncertainty regarding the synthesis option, it is quite a desperate solution because u are quickly changing the biological make up of everyone, sounds to me like a quick fix, effective but I think organics can work out how to continue peace on their own without changing anything, its gonna be tough but synthesis just snubbed the chance for organics and synthetics to prove that they can coexist peacefully

Modifié par Vigilant111, 25 mai 2012 - 01:40 .

[Taboo]

I don't believe that the only way to achieve true peace is Synthesis.

I believe in the power of love man.

I jest, but I truly don't believe that Catalyst because he has no information relevant to the problem. Rannoch was a pretty good indicator...

[Heeden]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Interesting, so much uncertainty regarding the synthesis option, it is quite a desperate solution because u are quickly changing the biological make up of everyone, sounds to me like a quick fix, effective but I think organics can work out how to continue peace on their own without changing anything, its gonna be tough but synthesis just snubbed the chance for organics and synthetics to prove that they can coexist peacefully

I think the fact you need the geth to survive and work on the crucible to get the synthesis ending means our cycle has already proven synthetics and organics can cooperate on some level.

However I still rejected Synthesis on for similar reasons, we can make it on our own and don't need the up-lift.

[Taboo]

Heeden wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Interesting, so much uncertainty regarding the synthesis option, it is quite a desperate solution because u are quickly changing the biological make up of everyone, sounds to me like a quick fix, effective but I think organics can work out how to continue peace on their own without changing anything, its gonna be tough but synthesis just snubbed the chance for organics and synthetics to prove that they can coexist peacefully

I think the fact you need the geth to survive and work on the crucible to get the synthesis ending means our cycle has already proven synthetics and organics can cooperate on some level.

However I still rejected Synthesis on for similar reasons, we can make it on our own and don't need the up-lift.

This is the argument I use.

I don't think it's WRONG per se.

[Vigilant111]

Heeden wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Interesting, so much uncertainty regarding the synthesis option, it is quite a desperate solution because u are quickly changing the biological make up of everyone, sounds to me like a quick fix, effective but I think organics can work out how to continue peace on their own without changing anything, its gonna be tough but synthesis just snubbed the chance for organics and synthetics to prove that they can coexist peacefully

I think the fact you need the geth to survive and work on the crucible to get the synthesis ending means our cycle has already proven synthetics and organics can cooperate on some level.

However I still rejected Synthesis on for similar reasons, we can make it on our own and don't need the up-lift.

well, probably need to prove it on a larger scale and also need to apply it on synthetics that are made later on, even though I oppose making more synthetics

[Taboo]

To be honest, I would like the Geth to believe that they would be able to continue to their singularity, but with their understanding of Organics, they would choose not to harm us.

Consensus reached for me.

[BP20125810]

People seem to be forgetting that the Catalyst does not view the passage of time the same way Shepard may. The Catalyst has been around for at least a billion years. Time is more of an illusion to it.

I guess you could compare this situation to a Doctor (the Catalyst) describing the disease of cancer to a dog (Shepard) What i'm getting at is that the Catalyst is infinitely smarter than Shepard, and doesn't NEED to explain itself.

[Taboo]

He does for science!

SCIENCE!

The Doctor has been wrong before!

[Vigilant111]

on a different note, maybe the organics do care about ethics, that's why so few synthetic races are created, or maybe the reapers just destroyed them when they have reached the height of intelligence to make AI

[Vigilant111]

BP20125810 wrote...

People seem to be forgetting that the Catalyst does not view the passage of time the same way Shepard may. The Catalyst has been around for at least a billion years. Time is more of an illusion to it.

I guess you could compare this situation to a Doctor (the Catalyst) describing the disease of cancer to a dog (Shepard) What i'm getting at is that the Catalyst is infinitely smarter than Shepard, and doesn't NEED to explain itself.

U meant the catalyst is God?

Modifié par Vigilant111, 25 mai 2012 - 02:04 .

[BP20125810]

Vigilant111 wrote...

BP20125810 wrote...

People seem to be forgetting that the Catalyst does not view the passage of time the same way Shepard may. The Catalyst has been around for at least a billion years. Time is more of an illusion to it.

I guess you could compare this situation to a Doctor (the Catalyst) describing the disease of cancer to a dog (Shepard) What i'm getting at is that the Catalyst is infinitely smarter than Shepard, and doesn't NEED to explain itself.

U meant the catalyst is God?

The Catalyst has been around for so long that it's almost impossible to even grasp or comprehend the level of intellect and understanding that it posseses.  It is already looking forward a million years to when Shepard, the main peacekeeper and the only reason the galaxy hasn't destroyed itself by that point, would have been long forgotten and machines will have reigned suprememe.  Its this thinking that causes people to associate the Catalyst with cruelty, but it is only thier misunderstanding and "fear" of it that causes theses fealings.

[Taboo]

BP20125810 wrote...

The Catalyst has been around for so long that it's almost impossible to even grasp or comprehend the level of intellect and understanding that it posseses.  It is already looking forward a million years to when Shepard, the main peacekeeper and the only reason the galaxy hasn't destroyed itself by that point, would have been long forgotten and machines will have reigned suprememe.  Its this thinking that causes people to associate the Catalyst with cruelty, but it is only thier misunderstanding and "fear" of it that causes theses fealings.

We've already discussed this and it has been disproven. We had this over pages ago.

He is an AI in a feedback loop.

[Vigilant111]

BP20125810 wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

BP20125810 wrote...

People seem to be forgetting that the Catalyst does not view the passage of time the same way Shepard may. The Catalyst has been around for at least a billion years. Time is more of an illusion to it.

I guess you could compare this situation to a Doctor (the Catalyst) describing the disease of cancer to a dog (Shepard) What i'm getting at is that the Catalyst is infinitely smarter than Shepard, and doesn't NEED to explain itself.

U meant the catalyst is God?

The Catalyst has been around for so long that it's almost impossible to even grasp or comprehend the level of intellect and understanding that it posseses.  It is already looking forward a million years to when Shepard, the main peacekeeper and the only reason the galaxy hasn't destroyed itself by that point, would have been long forgotten and machines will have reigned suprememe.  Its this thinking that causes people to associate the Catalyst with cruelty, but it is only thier misunderstanding and "fear" of it that causes theses fealings.

If Shepard is a "dog", why can't you just make him happy?, again,
cancer? different perspective only, what the reapers have seen in the
past meant very little to me

[Heeden]

Taboo-XX wrote...
We've already discussed this and it has been disproven. We had this over pages ago.

He is an AI in a feedback loop.

If he is caught in a feedback loop rather than working-as-intended he's still a being of a magnitude that we can barely comprehend due to both age and processing power.

[Taboo]

Heeden wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
We've already discussed this and it has been disproven. We had this over pages ago.

He is an AI in a feedback loop.

If he is caught in a feedback loop rather than working-as-intended he's still a being of a magnitude that we can barely comprehend due to both age and processing power.

Possible of course, but he is still stuck, which we agreed upon earlier, as only the introduction of a variable caused him to change his mind.

He isn't Cthulhu.

His ability to be destroyed in the Destroy ending cements that he isn't all powerful, or at least in the capacity people seem to think he is.

[Shallyah]

So much effort put into saying "I'm raping your whole genetic code and I'm not even asking if you want it or not. What, you'd prefer to die before becoming an obscene half-synthetic abomination? Tough luck. I've already decided for you."

[Taboo]

Shallyah wrote...

So much effort put into saying "I'm raping your whole genetic code and I'm not even asking if you want it or not. What, you'd prefer to die before becoming an obscene half-synthetic abomination? Tough luck. I've already decided for you."

I think said interpretation is hyperbolic.

Could you elucidate?

I still hate Synthesis though.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 25 mai 2012 - 02:23 .

[clennon8]

Shallyah wrote...

So much effort put into saying "I'm raping your whole genetic code and I'm not even asking if you want it or not. What, you'd prefer to die before becoming an obscene half-synthetic abomination? Tough luck. I've already decided for you."

I'm not going to assume it turns everybody into "obscene half-synthetic abominations."  In fact, I'm sure the EC will go out of its way to show us how wonderfully it turns out for everyone.  And I don't care.  It's STILL wrong.